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Make Game for ppls to Live in. not just a challenge.


volandimer
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So me and my friends (~20 ppls. 14-30 years old) are all love 7dtd and playing it from long ago. Recently i quastioned my self and my friends -" why choos minecraft and not 7 days to die? every thing u can do in minecraft u can do in 7dtd as well. and i can setting difficulty to lowest so its basicaly like mincraft jusst chill and creativity." And we  made POG discovery.

 

So basicaly 7dtd made as a challenge game in its core and after beating the game to the point where u can just survive without any problems u kinda left without any goals. Where is Minecraft on oposite more like a sandboxe with all the rafms and creativitys for builders and redstoners and so on. (btw n1 argument from all my friends was - "u cant tame cats or dogs in 7dtd" ♥ 🙂 )

And i Pogge'd real hard after this. it was so simple and so obvious. Make more pets to tame more things to farm or trees and collectable rain watter - to sustain life without leaving the base (mb even some kind of aquaduct system). More bioms/vegetations and make it more vibrant so ppls would love to just be in world to discover more things. Under watter flora and fauna (mb fishing). Caves with cave systems with underground mobs? More tools and building block's for housing (diferent typo and colors of doors and windows, and usable: ovens, chairs, bed's, furnitures. And not destroyed or dirty - so it would be cozy and nice to live in ^_^ ♥, more type of flowers and in doors vegetations and flovers in pot's). And its rly endless posibilityes to make life more enjoyable grate and cozy - even in zombie apocalipsis. Zombie apocalipsis is not an argument to not live great ^_^. 

 

Not related but i always wonned it make shoping carts ridable? ^_^ and so if one friend injured (leg or worse) he could jump in it so other friend could ride him down to home or anywhere else ^_^ ♥. And make some ways to shoot/hit whyle in ride (mb only for passangers).

P.s. Thinking it farther. mb then after ppls gonna spent 1000 of days in world gonna be needed some kind of ways to make mineable resources to be renewable wich needed for every day life. (and brass)

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5 hours ago, volandimer said:

So basicaly 7dtd made as a challenge game in its core and after beating the game to the point where u can just survive without any problems u kinda left without any goals. Where is Minecraft on oposite more like a sandboxe with all the rafms and creativitys for builders and redstoners and so on. (btw n1 argument from all my friends was - "u cant tame cats or dogs in 7dtd" ♥ 🙂 )

The end game and game storyline is being actively worked on. Until then we the players make up our own challenges and story to go along with trying to survive the Horde Nights. We'll get the end game story when the game goes gold. As for building, my dude....have you seen the 1500+ blocks available to build with? Plus the electricity. Plus all the craftable deco items. You can build from scratch with your own unique ideas OR you can rebuild/renovate an existing building. 

 

As for "u cant tame cats or dogs in 7dtd" ... this isn't Minecraft and Thank God for that. Both games have their own unique mechanics and fun game play. It's not necessary to try to make one game like the other game. Doing that won't make the game better. It won't make it more fun. It won't make it more playable. It will only make it a copycat version of the other game. If you want to tame cats and dogs, try seeing if there is a Mod for that mechanic, or you can play minecraft. I hear you can do that there. 

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16 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:

The end game and game storyline is being actively worked on. Until then we the players make up our own challenges and story to go along with trying to survive the Horde Nights. We'll get the end game story when the game goes gold. As for building, my dude....have you seen the 1500+ blocks available to build with? Plus the electricity. Plus all the craftable deco items. You can build from scratch with your own unique ideas OR you can rebuild/renovate an existing building. 

 

As for "u cant tame cats or dogs in 7dtd" ... this isn't Minecraft and Thank God for that. Both games have their own unique mechanics and fun game play. It's not necessary to try to make one game like the other game. Doing that won't make the game better. It won't make it more fun. It won't make it more playable. It will only make it a copycat version of the other game. If you want to tame cats and dogs, try seeing if there is a Mod for that mechanic, or you can play minecraft. I hear you can do that there. 

I dont get u'r frustration 😕. I didn't say anything about removing something from 7dtd, just adding something. No one  forces you tu use it if you don't want to 🤔. U can still play just challanging u'r self in any way u wonna with all u'r dificulties that u wonna. 

As for the things u mentioned 1 by 1:

          1) "1500+ blocks" - I dont talk about diferent shape of semi blocks in diferent corners or so (thats not rly needed even). I even clarified what exactly I mean in brackets - 

Quote

(diferent typo and colors of doors and windows, and usable: ovens, chairs, bed's, furnitures. And not destroyed or dirty - so it would be cozy and nice to live in ^_^ ♥, more type of flowers and in doors vegetations and flovers in pot's)

            There is only one type of door in game and u cant change color or its visual. (except for the when u upgrade it) - no smoth cool or beautifull version wich gonna be nice to look at. same with garage doors, same with glasses (only two of them bullet proof or ABSOLUTE transparent) + rly limited deco (like flower pods or chairs and sofas or ovens and other furnitures - honestely better it was actualy 1500+ new furnitures than blocks )+ 99% of everything in 7dtd is dirty with scratches or destroyed. no beautifull polished like rly new one things (even if its rly new and just crafted) - i said about this as well.

          2) "+electricity" - what? i dont even know why u put it here. . . even thou u can basicaly just connect it to doors or garage or light. thats it. no ovens or anything like. (lets actualy try to be creative and immagine what u could'v add to the quality of life. mb frige, heaters/coolers, actual working radio or tv? Diferent kind of lights? neons and blinking ones (colored?) already would'v add much ♥)

          3) "this isn't Minecraft and Thank God for that. Both games have their own unique mechanics and fun game play." . . . - i meaaan its basicaly the same games. both genre's (sandbox survival zombies) and mechanics (basicaly not only minecraft mechanics but as in most of the games actualy). The only diference is that this game more about Realism and Challenge (even tho we can argue about the "challenge" part. minecraft can be pretty hard...) as i as well already told above. And thats why i like this game more - because its graphics and realism, the atmosphere. (i wont even be surprised if thats actualy was the idea when they was creating this game).

         4) "Doing that won't make the game better. It won't make it more fun. It won't make it more playable." - well duh. . . thats exactly the point why - to make it more fun and stay and play more in game for all of my friends. (obviously seems like not for u, but as i already told - no one forcing u to use it 🤷‍♂️). even in general - adding more stuff = adding more hours for ppls to play with this new stuff's in game. And adding more "quality of life" stuff adding even more hours as it always show in many games throu all of the gaming history. Because ppls then just like to even be in game and spend more time even without the goals - just to bring joy and pleasure. And also i'm 100% sure this would OPEN HUGE whole new niche for the multiplayer comunity posibilities.

 

P.s. Btw i found out on this forum that taming animals (especially chicken for eggs) is long time most asked/supported feature to add in the comunity. And again, as i told, no one forcing u to use it 😕 why so mad? 🤷‍♂️

Edited by volandimer (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

. . . Edit. . . 
 also forgot to mention the coocking part. For now canned peas are needed for many recipes while it is also the most rare food drop as seems like, so we always left to choose where to use it leaving us not using some recipes and ingridients for them at all. So there is definetely shou'd been made some tweeks. 

Also there could be added this kinds of food as farmable so no need to rely on the loot drops. (such as peas, pears, tomatos, pineaples, ... and other canned things. ways to make canned meat as well. same as fish with added wishing posibilities).  Also in general would be grate to seem more cooking recipes and posibilities. Mb even make some recipes (higher tier ones) only possible to made on stove or oven (gasoline or electric one) wich u need to craft and fuel with its intendet thing as well.

 

also would be greate to see more clothes stuff and again not dirty and without scratches as well. Or mb made it when u make new one then its clean and smoth and cool. or make it so all clothes stuff could get dirty with just time and u could clean it in washing mashines (wich u also have to power up). 

 

if edded radio or tv. could also add some ways to Record some sound's or soundtracks to get it playet after via some powered tool similar to radio. (not gonna be even needed to add ways to create music because any one just can record music thru open mic).

 

in game emotes and gestures? like waving or dancing or laying down or sitting and so on.

i already see bilion possibilities for multiplayers comunity. Creating own bar, restourants, dancing places, Hotels, washing places, and many other cool places for ppls to netflix and chill where they could also get dressed related to mood or place. ^_^ ♥

Edited by volandimer (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, volandimer said:

I dont get u'r frustration 😕. I didn't say anything about removing something from 7dtd, just adding something. No one  forces you tu use it if you don't want to 🤔. U can still play just challanging u'r self in any way u wonna with all u'r dificulties that u wonna. 
 

P.s. Btw i found out on this forum that taming animals (especially chicken for eggs) is long time most asked/supported feature to add in the comunity. And again, as i told, no one forcing u to use it 😕 why so mad? 🤷‍♂️

It's important to add thing that will suit to this setting ( by setting in mean style). I know - it's voxel game like minecraft but from style it's more similiar to dayz or days gone etc.

And there is no chance for taming animals because ; not suit good for this setting, 2 too many work to do this 3. balance 

Sometimes less mean better- that's why shogun 2 is good game and total war 3 not. 

About rest things connected with multiplayer- this game is not designed mainly on multiplayer-  max 8- so this is coop. TFP want to finish this game as fast as they can so this ideas are too much now. Just it's too late.  Hotels washing place and emotes + gestures etc sounds like another "wee are roblox  or  minecraft" -  this is not point of 7DTD. 7dtd is trying to keep hm... "typical zombie movie" style

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Posted (edited)

but we played on 50 and even 100 max players servers (even tho mostly it was only 20 to 30 online but still).


Yeah its prob to late in did :(  sadge. And yeah not everything would fit probably (tho it can still depends on designe i guess) but my general goal was to create basic idea of  what's left behind. Like we could'v said "quality of life" improvments/update. 

i just tossed all i could'v immagine or remmember to here just cause they asked for this in creating posts. that exact what u wonna or how it would work or stats or any other details would be rly helpfull when creating sugestion posts. i also dont wonna for example 
emotes + gestures and not gonna use it. But more for housing/base stuff would be rly great. After all  Life still continues on even after 70 or 700 days in game so make it more comfortable for survivors is rly neutural thing in any setting (guess its still disigne/relization matters).

 

And mb they still will drop some updates occasionally even after release. who knows. its not like they gonna be done with the game forever after this any ways.

 

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

And there is no chance for taming animals because ; not suit good for this setting

Why not? its not like we already not having huge farms in our bases with billions plants. and what farm without chickens? And its not like there is no chickens in game. They already running around in the world. Its just that they now gonna run in some place of our base too. feels like its fit pretty well. Any way mb its rly just way of prefrences, mb some players who dont like this ideas not even using farms and perks for this as well and not playing this side of the game, and mb its just rly matter of the design/realization.  I just know that all my friends who i know and i would like it 100% so i droped it here. well. . . will see. My hopes are high. ♥

Edited by volandimer (see edit history)
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11 minutes ago, volandimer said:

but we played on 50 and even 100 max players servers (even tho mostly it was only 20 to 30 online but still).


Yeah its prob to late in did :(  sadge. And yeah not everything would feet probably (tho it can still depends on designe i guess) but my general goal was to create basic idea of  what's left behind. Like we could'v said "quality of life" improvments/update. 

i just tossed all i could'v immagine or remmember to here just cause they asked for this in creating posts. that exact what u wonna or how it would work or stats or any other details would be rly helpfull when creating sugestion posts. i also dont wonna for example 
emotes + gestures and not gonna use it. But more for housing/base stuff would be rly great. After all  Life still continues on even after 70 or 700 days in game so make it more comfortable for survivors is rly neutural thing in any setting (guess its still disigne/relization matters).

 

And mb they still will drop some updates occasionally even after release. who knows. its not like they gonna be done with the game forever after this any ways.

 

Why not? its not like we already not having huge farms in our bases with billions plants. and what farm without chickens? And its not like there is no chickens in game. They already running around in the world. Its just that they now gonna run in some place of our base too. feels like its feet pretty well. Any way mb its rly just way of prefrences, mb some players who dont like this ideas not even using farms and perks for this as well and not playing this side of the game, and mb its just rly matter of the design/realization.  I just know that all my friends who i know and i would like it 100% so i droped it here. well. . . will see. My hopes are high. ♥

<sigh> okay i have bad mood for some but i will try to be calm.

1. Offical max number of players on server is  8, Ofc you can set 50 people server but it is not offical thing  - you can ask meganoth for more details

2. this depends on universe - in fallout people don't care to clean their houses anymore or in days gone or tlou. But you can paint things- not everything but some things yes - and more colors mean more textures- sorry for but exploanation but they want too minimalised number of things ( by use 1 thing in few places) to keep performance  but someone with bigger knowlednge can say how this works

3. okay from gameplay point of view - there is a limit of creatures - traders, zombies and animals per chunk - so more animals = less zombies. So if you had let say 16 animals in your farm it would be only 16 zombie.  It would looks bad right? And i think 5 zombie blood moon would looks bad.

My advice from my experience - it's better to limit hopes to just single thing like dunno...  throwing lightsticks. it's just too late 

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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7 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

<sigh> okay i have bad mood for some but i will try to be calm.

1. Offical max number of players on server is  8, Ofc you can set 50 people server but it is not offical thing  - you can ask meganoth for more details

2. this depends on universe - in fallout people don't care to clean their houses anymore or in days gone or tlou. But you can paint things- not everything but some things yes - and more colors mean more textures- sorry for but exploanation but they want too minimalised number of things ( by use 1 thing in few places) to keep performance  but someone with bigger knowlednge can say how this works

3. okay from gameplay point of view - there is a limit of creatures - traders, zombies and animals per chunk - so more animals = less zombies. So if you had let say 16 animals in your farm it would be only 16 zombie.  It would looks bad right? And i think 5 zombie blood moon would looks bad.

My advice from my experience - it's better to limit hopes to just single thing like dunno...  throwing lightsticks. it's just too late 

 

i mean u now just saying that u dont wonna the idea/sugestion because the realization of it gonna be hard or gonna kill the performance of the game. 🙂 i mean yeah - "someone with bigger knowlednge can say how this works". we here not for this to disscuss. its not our problem its progrmammers/dev problems and they know better what they can do and what is easy/hard to add. our deal here is just discuss ideas thats all man 🙂 .

 

Even tho. . . if u asked... I'm actualy a qualified programming engineer who already working in game dev for 5 years as well . i can tell u how it works. 😂

About textures that u said. More textures - not gonna do anything with performance at all. it only will - if u drop textures with more resolution - then yes. What it will do - its only gonna make the game folder it self weight more on your hard drive by the amount of how much textures gonna be added, thats it.

About limits of creatures. I can bet they have diferent limits for diferent type of creatures, like : animals,zombies and so on. or else u wouldn't seen any zombie in u'r game if u would kill only zombies for example. because at some point only animals would take over whole limit cause u not killing them. Even if they have some diferent realization - they can make it like that - as many games as well doing it for like forever with diferent limits for enemy creatures, neutral creaters, flying creaters, sea creaters and so on.

 

But as i told. why to even talk about it? 🙂 its not the place for it and we not the peoples to decide wich will be hard or not to realise in game. Game dev's are! Let them to decide it.

 

P.s. Wish u all calm's and peaces of the world bro 😂 ♥. dont know why u guys have such calm issues but okay. hope it will get better for u guys. jeez 

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13 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

i mean u now just saying that u dont wonna the idea/sugestion because the realization of it gonna be hard or gonna kill the performance of the game. 🙂 i mean yeah - "someone with bigger knowlednge can say how this works". we here not for this to disscuss. its not our problem its progrmammers/dev problems and they know better what they can do and what is easy/hard to add. our deal here is just discuss ideas thats all man 🙂 .

 

Sure it is. What Matt115 probably wanted to say was that while some may be good ideas their chance to be implemented is very low.

 

Just as an example, you proposed "more biomes". Interestingly we already had more biomes but some of them were removed by TFP because they hit a limit in the graphics engine they are using. How likely is it that they now will add them again? I'd say zero unless the graphics engine removes that limit. So yes, we can discuss the idea, but some people already know how useless it is to even mention it at the moment and might like to tell you that bit of knowledge you most likely don't possess.

 

13 hours ago, volandimer said:

Even tho. . . if u asked... I'm actualy a qualified programming engineer who already working in game dev for 5 years as well . i can tell u how it works. 😂

 

Good, so we can talk about the technical side as well.  Though it only means you know how it works in the general sense. To fully know how easily something can be added to this game you would need knowledge about the graphics engine and the actual implementation. And design choices and goals the developers have set for themselves. Frequent forum users usually get that knowledge fed bit by bit by questions answered by the developers.

 

They definitely don't know the details but why shouldn't they tell you when some idea already was proposed and declined by the developers because ...

 

13 hours ago, volandimer said:

About textures that u said. More textures - not gonna do anything with performance at all. it only will - if u drop textures with more resolution - then yes. What it will do - its only gonna make the game folder it self weight more on your hard drive by the amount of how much textures gonna be added, thats it.

 

Textures will also need more room in your GPU VRAM. Either that or the game needs to reload textures constantly from memory or disk and then it costs performance.

And when the developers look at this they have to look at the minimum specs PC they support, at the moment that seems to be 2G (or 4G?) VRAM. Currently the textures seem to be read into VRAM as texture atlasses, i.e. compilations of textures.

 

A typical game with a fixed world would just split up such compilations into smaller ones and make sure it needs only one compilation in each area. And this way reduce VRAM usage.

But in 7D2D the player can set down blocks with any texture he wants. In theory he could make sure that all textures available to the game(!) need to be shown and therefore loaded at the same time, something the typical game with a fixed world can easily prevent.

 

 

13 hours ago, volandimer said:

About limits of creatures. I can bet they have diferent limits for diferent type of creatures, like : animals,zombies and so on. or else u wouldn't seen any zombie in u'r game if u would kill only zombies for example. because at some point only animals would take over whole limit cause u not killing them. Even if they have some diferent realization - they can make it like that - as many games as well doing it for like forever with diferent limits for enemy creatures, neutral creaters, flying creaters, sea creaters and so on.

 

The game has a general limit of 64 creatures that can be spawned at the same time (a limit the player can increase if he has a powerful PC).  Again this is a limit so that even PCs at the minimum speccs can run the game. Each creature spawned has relatively high costs (for spawning, path finding,...) and it isn't expected that the costs can be changed *dramatically* with optimisation as there already has been a lot of optimizations going on. Only a completely new way of spawning them (i.e. definitely lots of work) might change that. 

 

With the current max supported 8 players, each player running around seperately (the worst case) would mean each player just has 8 entities (zombies+animals) to play with at a given time. And they have to look at worst case scenarios.

 

As nice as an animal farm would be in the game they surely don't want you seeing only 1 zombie at a time in horde night just because you have 7 chickens running in a cage nearby. Again something I doubt will be realized currently.

 

We can always assume that things will change with time. Maybe they surprisingly find an easy way to make spawned creatures cost a lot less than they do now. Maybe they go the easy route and implement chicken coops just as a texture block. Who knows?

 

13 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

But as i told. why to even talk about it? 🙂 its not the place for it and we not the peoples to decide wich will be hard or not to realise in game. Game dev's are! Let them to decide it.

 

And they often already decided AND have told us why. You certainly shouldn't regard us forum users as sources but as (inaccurate) messengers.

 

13 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

P.s. Wish u all calm's and peaces of the world bro 😂 ♥. dont know why u guys have such calm issues but okay. hope it will get better for u guys. jeez 

 

I'm puzzled by that statement by Matt115 as well. But english is not his first language, he might have meant something completely different.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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15 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

i mean u now just saying that u dont wonna the idea/sugestion because the realization of it gonna be hard or gonna kill the performance of the game. 🙂 i mean yeah - "someone with bigger knowlednge can say how this works". we here not for this to disscuss. its not our problem its progrmammers/dev problems and they know better what they can do and what is easy/hard to add. our deal here is just discuss ideas thats all man 🙂 .

 

Even tho. . . if u asked... I'm actualy a qualified programming engineer who already working in game dev for 5 years as well . i can tell u how it works. 😂

About textures that u said. More textures - not gonna do anything with performance at all. it only will - if u drop textures with more resolution - then yes. What it will do - its only gonna make the game folder it self weight more on your hard drive by the amount of how much textures gonna be added, thats it.

About limits of creatures. I can bet they have diferent limits for diferent type of creatures, like : animals,zombies and so on. or else u wouldn't seen any zombie in u'r game if u would kill only zombies for example. because at some point only animals would take over whole limit cause u not killing them. Even if they have some diferent realization - they can make it like that - as many games as well doing it for like forever with diferent limits for enemy creatures, neutral creaters, flying creaters, sea creaters and so on.

 

But as i told. why to even talk about it? 🙂 its not the place for it and we not the peoples to decide wich will be hard or not to realise in game. Game dev's are! Let them to decide it.

 

P.s. Wish u all calm's and peaces of the world bro 😂 ♥. dont know why u guys have such calm issues but okay. hope it will get better for u guys. jeez 

Well meganoth explain good what i mean - we have to think if something is possible to implementation - Devs tested random zombie generator but it was working bad etc. 

I'm not programmer but if devs something cannot be done for some reasons that's mean it is just better to "give up" with this idea. So -  yes Devs decided but some of us know if idea is impossible (or very hard to do) to add so are trying to inform rest why some things just cannot work - for  example - meganoth or xyth have enough experience to know is something sounds realistic or not. 

 

Well we don't want to be rude or something like that. We just know that TFP want to finish game - so probably in 2023 or 2024 7dtd will be finished. You suggest big changes - your ideas can be good but it would be topic 5-6 years ago. It is just too late

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure it is. What Matt115 probably wanted to say was that while some may be good ideas their chance to be implemented is very low.

 

I'm puzzled by that statement by Matt115 as well. But english is not his first language, he might have meant something completely different.

 

Yep thx for help. I was feeling bad yesterday so my brain was working bad 😅

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Posted (edited)

I see now. Well thx u guys for answers. And sorry Matt115 if i angry u somehow ^_^. English is not my first language too btw so its totaly fine ^_^.  

On 4/17/2022 at 5:25 PM, meganoth said:

Good, so we can talk about the technical side as well.

 

Well well. now i even kinda hooked in 🥰 i totaly didnt expect here to talk about technicall staffs and ways of realization/implamitations but i'm 100% down for it 🙂 especially if this even gonna up chances of getting some of ideas in game.

 

Okay so. Before we start, as i looked up they are making this game in Unity if nothing changed? If yes this gonna make me more clear of things and how it works. And btw i already working with Unity as well for 3 years so thats nice☺️

 

I think first of all i gonna go back to things i listed thats is not touched by any limits in game u mentioned and so they can be implemented right away verry fast and easy.

On 4/17/2022 at 3:53 AM, Matt115 said:

more colors mean more textures

Well its not. In unity u can just aplly diferent color tint to the matterial it self wich is uses texture and thats it. u dont have to change texture on this matterial for this. In fact i think this is exact how they already doing with lots of things in game like: bed rolls, chairs, armor, weapons, and so on... So for example if we saying only about adding this same feautre to the blocks or other furnitures as well - then this is definetely doable and no need for more textures. 

 

Okay but what about thigs like nyew type of looks for doors for example or new furnitures and stuff. Well actualy there is already more then enaugh  textures i already saw in game that can be used for this and no need new ones.  I defientely saw - smooth wood textures (and other types of wood), lots of diferent typo of textures for metal (smooth and not as well same as rusty one and shiny one). So again they can just reuse this texutres for any things there is already more than enaugh in game for 100% sure.

And for example as i told about ovens and washing machines or coffy machines or other things - this are even already in game. just not usable/interactible. (well only like inventory. just like destroyed versions of crafting stations). Even for the rain collector there is definetelly all textures i already saw in game as well as some plastic coating kinda materrial. The other posible problem that even tho there is texutres in game that seems like can be used for many diferent objects the realization was made verry specific to use on this exact one object and if this texture gonna be applyed on dieferen objects/shapes - its gonna look messy. Then  ofcourse littel more work gonna have to be done but its still pretty easy and dont need to create new textures. For example the way to fix - is to split the texture in different little ones and use them separate or to rearange the basic one. 

 

About new bioms/flora/fauna. Well for this one even tho new textures (for example for fishes) are gonna be needed, cause its seems like i didnt saw any in game, its not like they gonna add verry much compared to how much they already have, and we dont ask for much, even 1 new at a time will bring times more of joy in game. And seeing they'r last changes to 7dtd - how they remodeled all zombies in last patches to new HD textures and even added new ones and planning to add raiders wich is also more new textures - they definetely far from bottlenecking the minimum requairments or Unity limits. Btw also would be greate idea to use diferent tint of color on clothes materials of the zombies to make less of the "clones" (againe - no need new textures. just using same one) would be HUUUUUGE as well actualy 😮. Even tho saying about bioms i honestly dont even know what kind of to add more and its still be "realistic". XD For me its all enaugh as well. The only rly watter and underwatter stuff rly feels empty and its rly sad. Also they can btw made player finaly be able to swim with just one adjust on slidebar in unity (10 seconds of work) would be greate as well. (not saying about animation for swimming - but this is not the most important. they can add it lately even if they need it. for me - i fine without it, only wonna speed as if i swim in watter and not in goo rly XD ❤️ ).

 

Okay so radio is doable and will be HUUUUUUGE as well. Its basicaly gonna add WHOLE new MOOD for the base. more then ANY blocks or furnitures combined.

+ All the stuff for cooking i mentioned as well is pretty much doable because its only patches in recipes and GUI and updating loot drop % chances. Mb  not for farmin. To add more crops. But what, i mentioned like 2 more crops? and we already got it that they far rom bottlenecking. and texture for crops is TIMES less than it is for raiders or zombies. 

Diferent colored lights? - same as with TInt color changing for existing ones. Adding neon lights tho not gonna be 5 minute job but i guuueeeeess its still doable. (againe watching only one what they doing and adding).

 

And so now to the biggest and strangest part...

On 4/17/2022 at 5:25 PM, meganoth said:

would mean each player just has 8 entities

WAaaaaait a second. . . so 64 creatures FOR WHOLE GAME? O_O not  even per player? O_O 

Now this is rly feels verry weird. cause its not like the creatures have some rly complicated and hard life/tasks/logic that they have. Basicaly just wandering + pathfinding.

So this is rly sounds like something not rly optimized. 

Also it sounds like they not implemented DOTS and jobs system in theyr game. Because even if we not try to optimize things. Just implementing DOTS + jobs system that unity have - it can up the limits if not 1000 but 100 times for sure. Actualy, knowing when first time 7dtd was created, and when DOTS and job system got its finaly good for use implementations in Unity, probably chances are big its not yet used. And if yes. Then actualy this could improve whole game switching to DOTS in any aspects in game. Unity dev's even made it so u can change already existing codes to Hybrite DOTS/jobs systems and monobeh, so no need to REwrite EVERYTHING from scratch, wich is the real BLESSINGS for all devs in the world.

 

i gonna left this part as "IDK if doable" as i dont know whats going on in here for now.

 

And with all of that's its seems like still if not all 100% then more than 95% of all things i mentioned is rly verry doable actualy. (well at least for how i see).

Also as said before Fun pimps already made lots  of optimizations with last versions of the game. So who knows mb the limitations of wich they were talking in pasts is already long gone. And so some of suggestions mb can be revisited?

 

P.s. 

On 4/17/2022 at 5:25 PM, meganoth said:

Maybe they go the easy route and implement chicken coops just as a texture block.

😂 Actualy this is great idea as well. I would love even this kind of variant. 🥰 And ooo oo 😮 Mb can be added the bee hives as well with same ideas. 👌👍Woaw i actualy love this topic now 😂 grate talks. ❤️ loving it 😊

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28 minutes ago, volandimer said:

I see now. Well thx u guys for answers. And sorry Matt115 if i angry u somehow ^_^. English is not my first language too btw so its totaly fine ^_^.  

 

Well well. now i even kinda hooked in 🥰 i totaly didnt expect here to talk about technicall staffs and ways of realization/implamitations but i'm 100% down for it 🙂 especially if this even gonna up chances of getting some of ideas in game.

 

Okay so. Before we start, as i looked up they are making this game in Unity if nothing changed? If yes this gonna make me more clear of things and how it works. And btw i already working with Unity as well for 3 years so thats nice☺️

 

I think first of all i gonna go back to things i listed thats is not touched by any limits in game u mentioned and so they can be implemented right away verry fast and easy.

Well its not. In unity u can just aplly diferent color tint to the matterial it self wich is uses texture and thats it. u dont have to change texture on this matterial for this. In fact i think this is exact how they already doing with lots of things in game like: bed rolls, chairs, armor, weapons, and so on... So for example if we saying only about adding this same feautre to the blocks or other furnitures as well - then this is definetely doable and no need for more textures. 

 

Okay but what about thigs like nyew type of looks for doors for example or new furnitures and stuff. Well actualy there is already more then enaugh  textures i already saw in game that can be used for this and no need new ones.  I defientely saw - smooth wood textures (and other types of wood), lots of diferent typo of textures for metal (smooth and not as well same as rusty one and shiny one). So again they can just reuse this texutres for any things there is already more than enaugh in game for 100% sure.

And for example as i told about ovens and washing machines or coffy machines or other things - this are even already in game. just not usable/interactible. (well only like inventory. just like destroyed versions of crafting stations). Even for the rain collector there is definetelly all textures i already saw in game as well as some plastic coating kinda materrial. The other posible problem that even tho there is texutres in game that seems like can be used for many diferent objects the realization was made verry specific to use on this exact one object and if this texture gonna be applyed on dieferen objects/shapes - its gonna look messy. Then  ofcourse littel more work gonna have to be done but its still pretty easy and dont need to create new textures. For example the way to fix - is to split the texture in different little ones and use them separate or to rearange the basic one. 

 

About new bioms/flora/fauna. Well for this one even tho new textures (for example for fishes) are gonna be needed, cause its seems like i didnt saw any in game, its not like they gonna add verry much compared to how much they already have, and we dont ask for much, even 1 new at a time will bring times more of joy in game. And seeing they'r last changes to 7dtd - how they remodeled all zombies in last patches to new HD textures and even added new ones and planning to add raiders wich is also more new textures - they definetely far from bottlenecking the minimum requairments or Unity limits. Btw also would be greate idea to use diferent tint of color on clothes materials of the zombies to make less of the "clones" (againe - no need new textures. just using same one) would be HUUUUUGE as well actualy 😮. Even tho saying about bioms i honestly dont even know what kind of to add more and its still be "realistic". XD For me its all enaugh as well. The only rly watter and underwatter stuff rly feels empty and its rly sad. Also they can btw made player finaly be able to swim with just one adjust on slidebar in unity (10 seconds of work) would be greate as well. (not saying about animation for swimming - but this is not the most important. they can add it lately even if they need it. for me - i fine without it, only wonna speed as if i swim in watter and not in goo rly XD ❤️ ).

 

Okay so radio is doable and will be HUUUUUUGE as well. Its basicaly gonna add WHOLE new MOOD for the base. more then ANY blocks or furnitures combined.

+ All the stuff for cooking i mentioned as well is pretty much doable because its only patches in recipes and GUI and updating loot drop % chances. Mb  not for farmin. To add more crops. But what, i mentioned like 2 more crops? and we already got it that they far rom bottlenecking. and texture for crops is TIMES less than it is for raiders or zombies. 

Diferent colored lights? - same as with TInt color changing for existing ones. Adding neon lights tho not gonna be 5 minute job but i guuueeeeess its still doable. (againe watching only one what they doing and adding).

 

And so now to the biggest and strangest part...

WAaaaaait a second. . . so 64 creatures FOR WHOLE GAME? O_O not  even per player? O_O 

Now this is rly feels verry weird. cause its not like the creatures have some rly complicated and hard life/tasks/logic that they have. Basicaly just wandering + pathfinding.

So this is rly sounds like something not rly optimized. 

Also it sounds like they not implemented DOTS and jobs system in theyr game. Because even if we not try to optimize things. Just implementing DOTS + jobs system that unity have - it can up the limits if not 1000 but 100 times for sure. Actualy, knowing when first time 7dtd was created, and when DOTS and job system got its finaly good for use implementations in Unity, probably chances are big its not yet used. And if yes. Then actualy this could improve whole game switching to DOTS in any aspects in game. Unity dev's even made it so u can change already existing codes to Hybrite DOTS/jobs systems and monobeh, so no need to REwrite EVERYTHING from scratch, wich is the real BLESSINGS for all devs in the world.

 

i gonna left this part as "IDK if doable" as i dont know whats going on in here for now.

 

And with all of that's its seems like still if not all 100% then more than 95% of all things i mentioned is rly verry doable actualy. (well at least for how i see).

Also as said before Fun pimps already made lots  of optimizations with last versions of the game. So who knows mb the limitations of wich they were talking in pasts is already long gone. And so some of suggestions mb can be revisited?

 

P.s. 

😂 Actualy this is great idea as well. I would love even this kind of variant. 🥰 And ooo oo 😮 Mb can be added the bee hives as well with same ideas. 👌👍Woaw i actualy love this topic now 😂 grate talks. ❤️ loving it 😊

Okay that's fine :)

1. About textures. Yes and no in this time - i'm not programmer but i spend a lot if time reading about source engine and doing stuff in gmod.  Colours can be problematic - sometimes you can just change color - let say plastic panel. But if you want to make for example - green wooden door you have to make green wood texture, if you want  make red wood door you have to make red texture etc. ofc simple change of color can be done for "syntetic" doors etc . Idk how this can work in unity but if source is similiar and you want to avoid "plastic" or "unnatural" vibe you have to make as another texture

2. about zombie clothes.... we talked about that on forum and hard to say about that - at least i know TFP was thinking about zombie clothes  and someone was explaining how models works but i don't remember too much about that.

3. I wrote few times about radio. It's good idea.  About rest - em.... honestly idk what do you mean - could  you write this more "clear"?

4. no no no no no just no. there wa a looooooot of problems with lights and lighting system so... this is working so better to left it intouch  

5. if i good remember - AI is very complicated because players used a lot of triks to be safe - you know  players can builds do strange things etc. So zombie have to calculate path to you, if just jump to you or "breaks " walls and which one etc so that's why this so big problem. TFP want to eliminate exploits so that's why this works this way.

Well some limitations are gone but... honestly  for my friend (until A19 it's fine) 7dtd was working bad sometimes lose of FPS , fall under map if he was riding on bike etc so they solve a lot of problem that let play better but it's more like pay off debts that earn money

6. well in theory this could works just like "crafting station" - you just put on ground wooden booth with chickens inside and just after some time it respawn feather and eggs. Well but idk how this could be crafted without option to catch a chicken. Seriously i was thinking about that in past and i think this need to implement catching system XD 

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11 hours ago, volandimer said:

I see now. Well thx u guys for answers. And sorry Matt115 if i angry u somehow ^_^. English is not my first language too btw so its totaly fine ^_^.  

 

Well well. now i even kinda hooked in 🥰 i totaly didnt expect here to talk about technicall staffs and ways of realization/implamitations but i'm 100% down for it 🙂 especially if this even gonna up chances of getting some of ideas in game.

 

Okay so. Before we start, as i looked up they are making this game in Unity if nothing changed? If yes this gonna make me more clear of things and how it works. And btw i already working with Unity as well for 3 years so thats nice☺️

 

In terms of Unity that is much more than I know, I have only second-hand knowledge.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

I think first of all i gonna go back to things i listed thats is not touched by any limits in game u mentioned and so they can be implemented right away verry fast and easy.

Well its not. In unity u can just aplly diferent color tint to the matterial it self wich is uses texture and thats it.

 

I assume your are talking about door color.  If blocks like doors should have different colors then you also need to store the color in each block in memory and on disk. If there are no bits left for that you would need a lot bigger changes to the code and data than you are assuming. And increase size of the data that is transfered all the time from disk to RAM to VRAM.

 

In previous alphas you could paint any block with a number of colors. In A20 I can't find them anymore (either I have just been unable to find the right UI element or the colors were scrapped to make room for more textures in the world).

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

u dont have to change texture on this matterial for this. In fact i think this is exact how they already doing with lots of things in game like: bed rolls, chairs, armor, weapons, and so on... So for example if we saying only about adding this same feautre to the blocks or other furnitures as well - then this is definetely doable and no need for more textures. 

 

Okay but what about thigs like nyew type of looks for doors for example or new furnitures and stuff. Well actualy there is already more then enaugh  textures i already saw in game that can be used for this and no need new ones.  I defientely saw - smooth wood textures (and other types of wood), lots of diferent typo of textures for metal (smooth and not as well same as rusty one and shiny one). So again they can just reuse this texutres for any things there is already more than enaugh in game for 100% sure.

 

Well, paint a door in "cobblestone" and tell me how it looks 😉. (PS: If you don't know about painting: You can find a paintbrush in game and apply texture to any surface)

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

And for example as i told about ovens and washing machines or coffy machines or other things - this are even already in game. just not usable/interactible. (well only like inventory. just like destroyed versions of crafting stations). Even for the rain collector there is definetelly all textures i already saw in game as well as some plastic coating kinda materrial. The other posible problem that even tho there is texutres in game that seems like can be used for many diferent objects the realization was made verry specific to use on this exact one object and if this texture gonna be applyed on dieferen objects/shapes - its gonna look messy. Then  ofcourse littel more work gonna have to be done but its still pretty easy and dont need to create new textures. For example the way to fix - is to split the texture in different little ones and use them separate or to rearange the basic one. 

 

For the developers there is not only the question of whether something is doable, but whether they want to invest their very limited time in such features and what features to leave out for that. For example a working electrical oven is something the developers have talked about (if I remember correctly) and would even like to implement one day. But what kept this idea far down on their priority list is that it is just a cosmetic addition that doesn't allow for new ways to play the game. In fact you can find lots of mods that already implement working ovens, it isn't difficult.

 

TFP seem to have a design goal of keeping the vanilla game somewhat clean of duplication. So there is not a pistol AND a P225 in the game because both would do and feel too much the same, it would not get them a new way of playing the game. 

Instead they leave this field to modders. And in fact if you want lots of almost identical but still different looking weapons, you will find lots of mods for that. I'm not saying duplication is inferior stuff, having lots of decoration is nice, but it it something hundreds of modders can do much better and faster than a small dev shop. 

 

In other words, TFP wants a "clean" base game as vanilla for new players to learn the game, and they work on features that need changes deep in the code. And the modders are there to enrich the game for all players that stay with the game, provide the fluff but also new features that can be built on top of the feature set the base game provides.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

 

About new bioms/flora/fauna. Well for this one even tho new textures (for example for fishes) are gonna be needed, cause its seems like i didnt saw any in game, its not like they gonna add verry much compared to how much they already have, and we dont ask for much, even 1 new at a time will bring times more of joy in game.

 

They have said for a long time that new stuff for the water needs a water physics overhaul first since they were not satisfied how water works at the moment, how it flows etc. And luckily for you they have a programmer on this task right now for A21 (or A22 or even never if that programmer doesn't find a satisfying implementation)

 

Once that is in, maybe we get boats and zombie fish.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

And seeing they'r last changes to 7dtd - how they remodeled all zombies in last patches to new HD textures and even added new ones and planning to add raiders wich is also more new textures - they definetely far from bottlenecking the minimum requairments or Unity limits.

 

Sure, but those are their priorities. HD textures seem to have been important to them and I can think of a few reasons:

1) Now that many players have 4k displays HD textures are needed so the game doesn't look @%$#ty on them

2) New players will compare this game to AAA games or even indie games in terms of graphics quality and then 7D2D shouldn't look like coming from 2001.

3) They might want 7D2D to look as good as possible themselves. Maybe they noticed themselves that they don't like the old textures anymore.

 

Bandits are very important to them because they promised them in the kickstarter. This is THE top item of their priority list. Even if they have to blast away the last bits of their performance budget and borrow some more they will do that. I assume they would even increase minimum specs if that needs to be done, just for bandits.

 

Their priorities. I guarantee you, if you were developing your own game (and with 3 years unity experience, maybe you alread have) you will generally put your own priorities in front. And carefully select which ideas from the community to follow.

 

So arguments like: "TFP did expend effort and performance for A, why not B?" can be explained easily: A is not B 😉 

 

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

Btw also would be greate idea to use diferent tint of color on clothes materials of the zombies to make less of the "clones" (againe - no need new textures. just using same one) would be HUUUUUGE as well actualy 😮.

 

An idea often proposed and even though TFP don't like the current situation (of just a few identical zombies) there seems to be no easy way to do that, yet. With all the code added for bandits and an overhaul of the player clothes/armor system planned this may change in the future.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

Even tho saying about bioms i honestly dont even know what kind of to add more and its still be "realistic". XD

 

Just try out alpha16. At that time we had two forests types, we had plains and the burned biome was separate to wasteland. Now consider: If for whatever reason TFP removed those biomes (which got lots of protests from forum users) those reason must be very compelling. They won't just reconsider because someone posts this great idea to add more biomes 😉

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

For me its all enaugh as well. The only rly watter and underwatter stuff rly feels empty and its rly sad. Also they can btw made player finaly be able to swim with just one adjust on slidebar in unity (10 seconds of work) would be greate as well. (not saying about animation for swimming - but this is not the most important. they can add it lately even if they need it. for me - i fine without it, only wonna speed as if i swim in watter and not in goo rly XD ❤️ ).

 

Okay so radio is doable and will be HUUUUUUGE as well. Its basicaly gonna add WHOLE new MOOD for the base. more then ANY blocks or furnitures combined.

 

Maybe. Sounds to me like something a modder might add or a feature for an addon. They already have a large list of things they still want to add until release and even need to prune THAT list. A radio is nice to have but essentially fluff, it doesn't provide a new way to play the game. Yes, they might underrate the effect to players like I do right now 😉

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

+ All the stuff for cooking i mentioned as well is pretty much doable because its only patches in recipes and GUI and updating loot drop % chances. Mb  not for farmin. To add more crops. But what, i mentioned like 2 more crops? and we already got it that they far rom bottlenecking. and texture for crops is TIMES less than it is for raiders or zombies. 

 

Sure. A year ago Madmole asked for interesting cooking recipes to add to the game. And they afterwards did add recipes. Which tells me they are probably satisfied with the amount of cooking recipes in the game. Feature done. If you want more recipes there are already lots of mods providing them.

 

Did we establish that they are far from bottlenecking? Don't think so. They definitely have a limited budget and they have a plan what needs to go into the game (for example bandits) and depending on implementation a part of that limited budget might already be reserved for those planned features. Apart from that you will find lots of forum posters complaining about the game being too slow or dropping FPS into the single digits on horde night or in the city. It isn't clear at all if there is a budget left at all.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

Diferent colored lights? - same as with TInt color changing for existing ones. Adding neon lights tho not gonna be 5 minute job but i guuueeeeess its still doable. (againe watching only one what they doing and adding).

 

And so now to the biggest and strangest part...

WAaaaaait a second. . . so 64 creatures FOR WHOLE GAME? O_O not  even per player? O_O 

Now this is rly feels verry weird. cause its not like the creatures have some rly complicated and hard life/tasks/logic that they have. Basicaly just wandering + pathfinding.

So this is rly sounds like something not rly optimized. 

 

You can easily increase the limit if you have a current PC. But get yourself an old PC near minimum specs and try again. Here is some info about the jobs system directly from Faatal who is the lead developer and also the main AI developer. If you want inside information about the game, go into his profile and read his past posts. Lots of informative stuff in there

 

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/22366-alpha-20-dev-diary/?do=findComment&comment=464476

 

Do you have experience with voxel games? Voxel-based games seem to need a lot more resources than typical games.

Now Unity still has its main game loop in one single thread. And according to Faatal some of the limitations are because some work can not be moved to other threads.

Furthermore there are bandwidth limits on data transfers. On older PCs you can notice this when driving with a motorbike and the new area isn't loaded fast enough, leading to holes in the world or you simply stopping in your track. Actually in vanilla this determines the maximum speed of vehicles.

 

What I'm saying here: From the outside and playing with a unity mockup  or a smaller game or a game with a fixed world you can easily claim that hundreds of zombies should be no problem. But when you build up a complex game with features like a completely dynamic world and voxels that are not really supported by graphics engines you may hit limits you haven't seen yet in whatever game you have done in the same engine.

 

I myself don't have any actual experience at all with Unity. I can only tell you second hand knowledge as heard from the developers and making my own conclusions from this.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

Also it sounds like they not implemented DOTS and jobs system in theyr game. Because even if we not try to optimize things. Just implementing DOTS + jobs system that unity have - it can up the limits if not 1000 but 100 times for sure. Actualy, knowing when first time 7dtd was created, and when DOTS and job system got its finaly good for use implementations in Unity, probably chances are big its not yet used. And if yes. Then actualy this could improve whole game switching to DOTS in any aspects in game. Unity dev's even made it so u can change already existing codes to Hybrite DOTS/jobs systems and monobeh, so no need to REwrite EVERYTHING from scratch, wich is the real BLESSINGS for all devs in the world.

 

i gonna left this part as "IDK if doable" as i dont know whats going on in here for now.

 

And with all of that's its seems like still if not all 100% then more than 95% of all things i mentioned is rly verry doable actualy. (well at least for how i see).

 

It is not a question of doability. Almost everything is doable with tons of effort put into it. But the developers have to weigh effort against how much they want such a feature. And when you propose an idea you have to compete with features where the developers think they can get huge improvements out of minimal effort. You have to compete with their best ideas, and they have already said they have tons of ideas and they had needed to drop most of them because of not enough time and effort.

 

11 hours ago, volandimer said:

Also as said before Fun pimps already made lots  of optimizations with last versions of the game. So who knows mb the limitations of wich they were talking in pasts is already long gone. And so some of suggestions mb can be revisited?

 

P.s. 

😂 Actualy this is great idea as well. I would love even this kind of variant. 🥰 And ooo oo 😮 Mb can be added the bee hives as well with same ideas. 👌👍Woaw i actualy love this topic now 😂 grate talks. ❤️ loving it 😊

 

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

TFP seem to have a design goal of keeping the vanilla game somewhat clean of duplication. So there is not a pistol AND a P225 in the game because both would do and feel too much the same, it would not get them a new way of playing the game. 

 

In other words, TFP wants a "clean" base game as vanilla for new players to learn the game, and they work on features that need changes deep in the code. And the modders are there to enrich the game for all players that stay with the game, provide the fluff but also new features that can be built on top of the feature set the base game provides.

 

They have said for a long time that new stuff for the water needs a water physics overhaul first since they were not satisfied how water works at the moment, how it flows etc. And luckily for you they have a programmer on this task right now for A21 (or A22 or even never if that programmer doesn't find a satisfying implementation)

 

Once that is in, maybe we get boats and zombie fish.

 

Bandits are very important to them because they promised them in the kickstarter. This is THE top item of their priority list. Even if they have to blast away the last bits of their performance budget and borrow some more they will do that. I assume they would even increase minimum specs if that needs to be done, just for bandits.

 

An idea often proposed and even though TFP don't like the current situation (of just a few identical zombies) there seems to be no easy way to do that, yet. With all the code added for bandits and an overhaul of the player clothes/armor system planned this may change in the future.

 

 

Just try out alpha16. At that time we had two forests types, we had plains and the burned biome was separate to wasteland. Now consider: If for whatever reason TFP removed those biomes (which got lots of protests from forum users) those reason must be very compelling. They won't just reconsider because someone posts this great idea to add more biomes 😉

 

 

Maybe. Sounds to me like something a modder might add or a feature for an addon. They already have a large list of things they still want to add until release and even need to prune THAT list. A radio is nice to have but essentially fluff, it doesn't provide a new way to play the game. Yes, they might underrate the effect to players like I do right now 😉

 

Do you have experience with voxel games? Voxel-based games seem to need a lot more resources than typical games.

Now Unity still has its main game loop in one single thread. And according to Faatal some of the limitations are because some work can not be moved to other threads.

Furthermore there are bandwidth limits on data transfers. On older PCs you can notice this when driving with a motorbike and the new area isn't loaded fast enough, leading to holes in the world or you simply stopping in your track. Actually in vanilla this determines the maximum speed of vehicles.

 

What I'm saying here: From the outside and playing with a unity mockup  or a smaller game or a game with a fixed world you can easily claim that hundreds of zombies should be no problem. But when you build up a complex game with features like a completely dynamic world and voxels that are not really supported by graphics engines you may hit limits you haven't seen yet in whatever game you have done in the same engine.

 

 

1, Well  - i can't agree about guns - if stats woudn't be random and quality mean just more durability + old weapon crafting would be here this would allow to create a big diffrence between guns -  for example : mp5 - easy to find parts , even good recoil but small dmg and durability , P90 hard to find parts, great dmg and speed good magasine and moderate recoil etc - well ofc this would need a lot of time to make new models , loot etc but it would be very good option. Ofc modders can done this and it's too late but still a little bit shame.

2. this sound like TFP wanted to just create 7dtd simple as minecraft before microsoft take over xd

3. I think they will change water in A21 even if this mean we will have to wait a lot of time for A21

4. better to add drowned zombie that zombie fish XD

5. Well i hope they will increase min. spec because... number of zombie can be much lower because of bandits

6. about zombie clothes - this unfortunatly can't work this way because clothes are part of zombie not clothes put on zombies. Btw bandit's will works in this same way so probably this idea was throw to bin.

7. in theory they can add swamps after water overhaul - this would have a lot of sense because not it's impossible

8. Well radio can be connected with new events like - you put radio on bike and speaker can say about nearest event something like " a big group of zombie was seen on north".

9. this happend to my friend but he was driving on bike 

10. in theory it could be done in 7dtd but it's too late for that because it would force to throw to bin 3/4 of poi , drones etc , keep old A15 graphic etc to keep good performance, But this version of 7dtd would focused on killing zombie not about crafting looting etc this would be just "way to get items to kiling zombies". Well i don't this is good idea - i just say it would be possible 

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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Oooh woaw. so much text ) i gonna try to unswer right as i go read thru cause i def gonna forget about something while gonna read to the end. ❤️ )). 

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

I assume your are talking about door color.  If blocks like doors should have different colors then you also need to store the color in each block in memory and on disk. If there are no bits left for that you would need a lot bigger changes to the code and data than you are assuming. And increase size of the data that is transfered all the time from disk to RAM to VRAM.

doors or other furnitures or any casual blocks - actualy doesnt matter would be same thing. And it is -... for example we goona add 8 collors to choose from to store it u only need to add 3 bit of data info to ablock. and any given blocks already stores at least its position and rotation (i dont know how much textures for blocks there is in game but def more than 8 as well.) even only position is should be at least short (int but less) values so its takes 16 bits ofr every coordinate so times 3 for x,y and z, + 6*4=24 diferent rotations its as well at least 5 bits as well. u see where i going right? adding 8 collors would cost basicaly nothing. 

AND. this info stored only on HDD/SSD (of a server + clint side). MB in some cases it goes to RAM for short time for some works (who knows but not for long. depend on implementations again) but this is never have to deal with VRAM.  Its diferent from textures and u dont store whole textures inside every block u only store for example the index of a texture on it like f.e. N23 or something then the Unity engine gonna take N23 texture from where its stored (on VRAM f.e. in mb our case) and gonna graphics card gonna paint it as Unity tells it to do. something like that.

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

Well, paint a door in "cobblestone" and tell me how it looks 😉. (PS: If you don't know about painting: You can find a paintbrush in game and apply texture to any surface)

Well thats is absolutly not about what i was talking. ) when i said color - i meant it. what u talking is exactly textures. I'm telling about giving this textures a diferent TINT color not changing the textures. Like make this "cobblestone" texture for example a slight green or red or yelow tint. (and yeah - we dont need this option for any block as well right? who need to color they'r cobblestone right? 😂 well mb some pervert even wonna but still.. but some textures like glass as i told or some pale smooth textures that doesnt care about it and still would be looking  neutural and great - would be nice. Metalic surfaces as well f.e. and so on.) Its just what was matt saying about here actualy - 

 

21 hours ago, Matt115 said:

But if you want to make for example - green wooden door you have to make green wood texture, if you want  make red wood door you have to make red texture etc. ofc simple change of color can be done for "syntetic" doors etc . Idk how this can work in unity but if source is similiar and you want to avoid "plastic" or "unnatural" vibe you have to make as another texture

And yeah it definetely depends on textures on how it gonna look, but as i told above we can just use it for where it gonna be ok. Even tho. . . did u actualy saw colors for clothes and other stuff in 7dtd already? 😂 cmon its already looking kind weird and unneuteral for some of it XD. 

 

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

For the developers there is not only the question of whether something is doable, but whether they want to invest their very limited time in such features and what features to leave out for that. For example a working electrical oven is something the developers have talked about (if I remember correctly) and would even like to implement one day. But what kept this idea far down on their priority list is that it is just a cosmetic addition that doesn't allow for new ways to play the game. In fact you can find lots of mods that already implement working ovens, it isn't difficult.

 

TFP seem to have a design goal of keeping the vanilla game somewhat clean of duplication. So there is not a pistol AND a P225 in the game because both would do and feel too much the same, it would not get them a new way of playing the game. 

Instead they leave this field to modders. And in fact if you want lots of almost identical but still different looking weapons, you will find lots of mods for that. I'm not saying duplication is inferior stuff, having lots of decoration is nice, but it it something hundreds of modders can do much better and faster than a small dev shop. 

 

In other words, TFP wants a "clean" base game as vanilla for new players to learn the game, and they work on features that need changes deep in the code. And the modders are there to enrich the game for all players that stay with the game, provide the fluff but also new features that can be built on top of the feature set the base game provides.

Well exactly " its not difficult" 😞 ... well i thought suggesting easy add-on's will have more chances of getting in game. and this ones is rly brings mooore ways of playing. :( thats rlyyyyy sadge that they dont think in same way :-(. . . and also i RLY hate mods in any games 😞 dont wonna ruin game with some not official code from 3-d party's. 😞 rly rly rly sadge news if thats the case :-(.

 

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

They have said for a long time that new stuff for the water needs a water physics overhaul first since they were not satisfied how water works at the moment, how it flows etc. And luckily for you they have a programmer on this task right now for A21 (or A22 or even never if that programmer doesn't find a satisfying implementation)

 

Once that is in, maybe we get boats and zombie fish.

 Pog 😊 ❤️ thats gate news. yaaay.

 

8 hours ago, meganoth said:

Sure, but those are their priorities. HD textures seem to have been important to them and I can think of a few reasons:

1) Now that many players have 4k displays HD textures are needed so the game doesn't look @%$#ty on them

2) New players will compare this game to AAA games or even indie games in terms of graphics quality and then 7D2D shouldn't look like coming from 2001.

3) They might want 7D2D to look as good as possible themselves. Maybe they noticed themselves that they don't like the old textures anymore.

 

Bandits are very important to them because they promised them in the kickstarter. This is THE top item of their priority list. Even if they have to blast away the last bits of their performance budget and borrow some more they will do that. I assume they would even increase minimum specs if that needs to be done, just for bandits.

 

Their priorities. I guarantee you, if you were developing your own game (and with 3 years unity experience, maybe you alread have) you will generally put your own priorities in front. And carefully select which ideas from the community to follow.

 

So arguments like: "TFP did expend effort and performance for A, why not B?" can be explained easily: A is not B 😉 

well now this is actualy sounds like suggestions forum shouldn't even be created before the game gone release honestly -_-. Yeah. i better come back after its realesed seems like. But ofc. its sounds 100% Understandable and right things to do. promises first. 100% (i dont know of the list from kickstarter btw also and whould should be done. P.s. Is there somewhere i can look at it? Rly interested now actualy.)

 

And with just all u said after (instead of quoting everything) aaaaargh 😂 now u just teasing me to ask for a part job at Fun pimps to get things done my self and look how its done by them 😂 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaah im actualy to hooked up now wtheck XDDDD 

 

P.s. DOTS its diferent from jobs system and relatively new thing like mb only 3-4 years old. But even what it already can give us is huuuuge. if u interested u can watch the demonstration from official youtube Unity youtube channel the " Converting your game to DOTS - Unity at GDC 2019 " (i dont know if i can post links in here so i leave it like this). Grate video for like a "trailer" or some sort ) and rly brings any unity project 1000 or 100 times more performence (and its not fictional numbers i just throwing.) so its rly grate stuff <3. I'm trying to use it now my self even in little projects everywhere where i can. to get more used with it. rly grate stuff and for sure it is a future.

 

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

4. better to add drowned zombie that zombie fish XD

❤️ :joy

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

6. about zombie clothes - this unfortunatly can't work this way because clothes are part of zombie not clothes put on zombies. Btw bandit's will works in this same way so probably this idea was throw to bin.

well yeah. but it can be easely done by splitting up the models. well i mean. i already got that it actualy doesnt matter if we even gonna fully create implementations here and add file with codes. seems like rly its better to just wait at least the release of the game and then throw some suggestions. well will see. And i w il wait then. And also was rly enjoyable conversation with u guys loving it 🙂 for the better daaays . . . (and beyond ^_^)

 

P.s. also

 

21 hours ago, Matt115 said:

3. I wrote few times about radio. It's good idea.  About rest - em.... honestly idk what do you mean - could  you write this more "clear"?

could u quote the  part wich was unclear?

 

Actualy . . . Does Fun pimps have somewhere to look at job vacancies? or do they even looking for some one to hire? 🙂

Edited by volandimer (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, meganoth said:

Now Unity still has its main game loop in one single thread. And according to Faatal some of the limitations are because some work can not be moved to other threads.

Furthermore there are bandwidth limits on data transfers.

 

This actualy EXACT Why DOTS was needed and created in UNITY to overcome this limits. DOTS - is basicaly new way of designing the code and objects. basicaly new way of programming in UNITY at all. 

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12 minutes ago, volandimer said:

 

This actualy EXACT Why DOTS was needed and created in UNITY to overcome this limits. DOTS - is basicaly new way of designing the code and objects. basicaly new way of programming in UNITY at all. 

 

Which means it probably won't be used in 7 Days to Die 1. The devs want to finish the game and a rewrite of the game loop won't help here.

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, volandimer said:

Oooh woaw. so much text ) i gonna try to unswer right as i go read thru cause i def gonna forget about something while gonna read to the end. ❤️ )). 

doors or other furnitures or any casual blocks - actualy doesnt matter would be same thing. And it is -... for example we goona add 8 collors to choose from to store it u only need to add 3 bit of data info to ablock. and any given blocks already stores at least its position and rotation (i dont know how much textures for blocks there is in game but def more than 8 as well.) even only position is should be at least short (int but less) values so its takes 16 bits ofr every coordinate so times 3 for x,y and z, + 6*4=24 diferent rotations its as well at least 5 bits as well. u see where i going right? adding 8 collors would cost basicaly nothing. 

 

CPUs work best with data with 8, 16, 32 or 64 bits at a time. Now assume they use 32 bits per block at the moment and all bits are used. U see where I'm going, right? 😉.

 

 

48 minutes ago, volandimer said:

AND. this info stored only on HDD/SSD (of a server + clint side). MB in some cases it goes to RAM for short time for some works (who knows but not for long. depend on implementations again) but this is never have to deal with VRAM.  Its diferent from textures and u dont store whole textures inside every block u only store for example the index of a texture on it like f.e. N23 or something then the Unity engine gonna take N23 texture from where its stored (on VRAM f.e. in mb our case) and gonna graphics card gonna paint it as Unity tells it to do. something like that.

 

You are correct that color does not get stored in VRAM. I wasn't thinking that through. It still uses RAM and bandwith though.

 

48 minutes ago, volandimer said:

...

 

Actualy . . . Does Fun pimps have somewhere to look at job vacancies? or do they even looking for some one to hire? 🙂

 

Check out their homepage https://7daystodie.com/

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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40 minutes ago, volandimer said:

 

 

And yeah it definetely depends on textures on how it gonna look, but as i told above we can just use it for where it gonna be ok. Even tho. . . did u actualy saw colors for clothes and other stuff in 7dtd already? 😂 cmon its already looking kind weird and unneuteral for some of it XD. 

 

 

well yeah. but it can be easely done by splitting up the models. well i mean. i already got that it actualy doesnt matter if we even gonna fully create implementations here and add file with codes. seems like rly its better to just wait at least the release of the game and then throw some suggestions. well will see. And i w il wait then. And also was rly enjoyable conversation with u guys loving it 🙂 for the better daaays . . . (and beyond ^_^)

 

P.s. also

 

could u quote the  part wich was unclear?

1. Well - clothes good enough - but if they would add more colours it have to be looks good -let say blue, red , green metal need to be "rusty" - this must be done by someone because simple change of colour would looks bad  and people would complain a lot about that. So this mean it would need a lot of work. 

2. hm idk if this would be done like this because you can gib hands legs etc. So probably that's why clothes and body is one model

3. about food and farming

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

 

Check out their homepage https://7daystodie.com/

 Probably it will be For serious Business requests please get in touch with us here:biz@7daystodie.com

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