Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow

[bachgaman]

13 minutes ago, Star69 said:

Welcome to the forums. Madmole has replied to this question in the past and he doesn’t see the necessity of adding another ore. Brass has been made plentiful enough from various sources that brass supply shouldn’t be a problem.

according to this logic, it would be worth deleting the recipe for creating all ammo and weapons, and almost all items in the game

[Matt115]

16 hours ago, Star69 said:

Welcome to the forums. Madmole has replied to this question in the past and he doesn’t see the necessity of adding another ore. Brass has been made plentiful enough from various sources that brass supply shouldn’t be a problem.

Bullets is made using lead, coath , potasium and brass. And only brass you can't "mine" ( i know copper is necceasry to make brass)

16 hours ago, bachgaman said:

according to this logic, it would be worth deleting the recipe for creating all ammo and weapons, and almost all items in the game

No Bachgamaman, well for example - i don't see point to add mod to vehicles but someone see. Madmole wrote/ said this a some time ago so it could logical for him that cooper is not neccasary anymore . But maybe it is not actual 

 

15 hours ago, faatal said:

It is a model an artist is working on, so finalish.

Could  you say this person that he/she made nice job?

Edited March 24, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Bullets is made using lead, coath , potasium and brass. And only brass you can't "mine" ( i know copper is necceasry to make brass)

 

Oh yes, you can: Mine scrap iron -> craft forged iron -> sell to trader -> smelt coin to brass. Voila.

 

No, this is not meant as one of my usual joke answers. Coin to brass is a valid and unlimited source besides simply looting it.

 

15 hours ago, Matt115 said:

No Bachgamaman, well for example - i don't see point to add mod to vehicles but someone see. Madmole wrote/ said this a some time ago so it could logical for him that cooper is not neccasary anymore . But maybe it is not actual 

 

Could  you see this person that he/she made nice job?

 

[Matt115]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

Oh yes, you can: Mine scrap iron -> craft forged iron -> sell to trader -> smelt coin to brass. Voila.

 

No, this is not meant as one of my usual joke answers. Coin to brass is a valid and unlimited source besides simply looting it.

 

 

One mistake. You can't sell endlessly because trader will be anymore interested in buying it. So this is not effective. Sure it can be done but .... is so ineffective . And honestly looting is inefective too - it is more efective just doing quest and get bullets + buying bullets + brass + bullet casing. smelt coin need wood = more time spended on mining. Why wood not coal? because you need coal to make gunpowder. there is a lot random things here -  how far are traders, how POI you mostly get, which POI is nearby and are restardted by quests, Air drops etc. so your suggestion is very ineffective way.  About looting - this depends on your like , how POI are far from you and which type of them etc. so = copper ore would make mining more effective and doing quests less - how looting is efective is hard to say because one person can found 2000 brass in this same time and another person only 20. And there is more things to do in this same time etc.

 

So let say copper is added and steel parts cutted:

You have team of 2 persons - 1 is mining, cutting tree , building crafting, 2 is farming, looting doing quests ,scavenging  making food ,

 

1. person is cutting trees for wood to makes weapons, tools, buidling, smiting itd, mining ores  and doing building and take care about base while making vehicles etc

2. looting making quests in this same time

 

1. person making ammo , here came 2 person and give 1 a found weapons and 1 give 2 a ammo and better pickaxe etc so both of them doing things effective.

 

And now it how is looking now -

both of them have to mining ineffective ( perks ) , looting ineffective etc. because 1 person would be afk without brass because he can't making ammo without brining brass by 2 person. And his job is after time pointeless because 2 person will find steel pickaxe and axe faster that 1 person will get steel tools parts to make steel tools

 

[Crater Creator]

On 3/23/2022 at 1:36 PM, kazangati said:

Long time lurker off and on. but first post, what are the chances they will add Zinc And copper mining, It would be nice to make our own brass. Sorry if this has been asked before.

 

Welcome to the forum.  I'm not a dev, but having followed them long enough, I know that this has been asked before.  Brass being a non-mineable forge resource is no accident.  It's part of the vanilla game's design, that you can't make bullets through mining alone.

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, Blake_ said:

I wishfully wonder : Will you unleash the full gps pathing code to make them follow the player to the depths of hell... ish? 

 

Also, do you guys plan.to make animations with some basic faatal-made integrated AI tasks like using chairs or sofas, or even eating food standing or otherwise? Sneaking behind an unaware bandit sitting and eating a diabetes-inducing jar of honey would be loads of fun I gather.

Well that's would be stupid because they are humans not terminators. So they would be no point to hunt someone too long

47 minutes ago, Crater Creator said:

 

Welcome to the forum.  I'm not a dev, but having followed them long enough, I know that this has been asked before.  Brass being a non-mineable forge resource is no accident.  It's part of the vanilla game's design, that you can't make bullets through mining alone.

Well i hope devs will change their mind about that

31 minutes ago, Crater Creator said:

 

Hmm.  That's actually disappointing, to me.  Bandits that don't care about loot wouldn't be very bandit-like.

 

Perhaps the spawning of bandits could be affected by loot, even if their targeting/pathing isn't.  The game could (infrequently) add up the EconomicValues of the player-placed items in every container in the chunk, and ever so often this value could add to an 'economic activity' map.  When the economic activity reaches a threshold, the game spawns a scouting party of bandits.  In other words, it's a rinse and repeat version of the activity map that generates screamers.

 

That, and air drops, seem like two targets in which bandits should be dynamically interested.

Nope. this would be annoing as hell because : it would force you to sit in your base 24/7 but you can't do this  because you can't make steel tools without steel parts and you can mine cooper to  make brass

[wolfbain5]

A bandit "heat map" would be interesting, but tedious. I can see bandits being utilized more like this

 

1. Bandit camps

2. random bandit spawns in biome like wolves and such, with aggro towards bears/wolves, zeds, and players

3. bandits at dig/treasure map quests and parachute drops.

4. occasional factional raids at tradeposts

5. bandit gps raids on player when faction gets to the right level

 

bandits attacking bed positions and land claim positions would be too easy to cheese. it would be the old place them away from your real camps and trap them routine all over again like they used to do for 24/7 forges and screamers back in a16 and a17.

Edited March 25, 2022 by wolfbain5 (see edit history)

[beerfly]

Awesome ideas till we someone requests an option to turn the bandits off, which is a matter of time. 

[jorbascrumps]

4 hours ago, wolfbain5 said:

I can see bandits being utilized more like this

 

1. Bandit camps

2. random bandit spawns in biome like wolves and such, with aggro towards bears/wolves, zeds, and players

3. bandits at dig/treasure map quests and parachute drops.

4. occasional factional raids at tradeposts

5. bandit gps raids on player when faction gets to the right level

 

I imagine this is along the lines of what we'll see. Basically repurposing existing spawns/ events.

[doughphunghus]

8 hours ago, wolfbain5 said:

1. Bandit camps

2. random bandit spawns in biome like wolves and such, with aggro towards bears/wolves, zeds, and players

3. bandits at dig/treasure map quests and parachute drops.

4. occasional factional raids at tradeposts

5. bandit gps raids on player when faction gets to the right level

I know this is kinda pointless, but may be loads of fun:

- bandit horde spawns, zombie horde spawns. both headed towards you (like a normal horde does). Then they meet near your location (they spawn in opposite directions) and fight it out. You don’t have to participate (maybe you can snipe from a distance). But it would be loads of fun seeing and hearing it happen, just hunkered down, especially early game.

[Fanatical_Meat]

1 hour ago, doughphunghus said:

I know this is kinda pointless, but may be loads of fun:

- bandit horde spawns, zombie horde spawns. both headed towards you (like a normal horde does). Then they meet near your location (they spawn in opposite directions) and fight it out. You don’t have to participate (maybe you can snipe from a distance). But it would be loads of fun seeing and hearing it happen, just hunkered down, especially early game.

Agreed however I do not think the game engine is up to doing that task.

[Crater Creator]

18 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Nope. this would be annoing as hell because : it would force you to sit in your base 24/7...

 

That's one reason why they'd operate on the same basic idea as screamers.  Nobody sits in their base 24/7 because of screamer hordes, right?  So players wouldn't do that for bandit hordes, either.  There could even be a bandit 'screamer' that comes first, and whistles loudly or calls in on their walkie talkie if they see you.

 

Like anything else, the frequency of bandit hordes should be balanced appropriately so it's fun rather than tedious.  But it seems to me like a natural consequence of having a big, fancy base with a lot of valuable stuff should be that you're a bigger target for bandits.  After all, bandits are robbers by definition.  They should launch opportunistic attacks, rather than solely playing defense or lying in ambush.  And "a lot of valuable stuff" is probably the easiest option to quantify since everything already has an EconomicValue.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Crater Creator (see edit history)

[meganoth]

On 3/24/2022 at 5:42 PM, Matt115 said:

One mistake. You can't sell endlessly because trader will be anymore interested in buying it.

 

You are right you can't get endless brass in one day, but I never claimed that. But over time or by producing different items to sell you can get more brass than you ever need.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 5:42 PM, Matt115 said:

So this is not effective.

 

Possibly, I never said anything about whether it would be effective or not.

 

On 3/24/2022 at 5:42 PM, Matt115 said:

Sure it can be done but .... is so ineffective . And honestly looting is inefective too - it is more efective just doing quest and get bullets + buying bullets + brass + bullet casing. smelt coin need wood = more time spended on mining. Why wood not coal? because you need coal to make gunpowder. there is a lot random things here -  how far are traders, how POI you mostly get, which POI is nearby and are restardted by quests, Air drops etc. so your suggestion is very ineffective way.  About looting - this depends on your like , how POI are far from you and which type of them etc. so = copper ore would make mining more effective and doing quests less - how looting is efective is hard to say because one person can found 2000 brass in this same time and another person only 20. And there is more things to do in this same time etc.

 

So let say copper is added and steel parts cutted:

You have team of 2 persons - 1 is mining, cutting tree , building crafting, 2 is farming, looting doing quests ,scavenging  making food ,

 

1. person is cutting trees for wood to makes weapons, tools, buidling, smiting itd, mining ores  and doing building and take care about base while making vehicles etc

2. looting making quests in this same time

 

1. person making ammo , here came 2 person and give 1 a found weapons and 1 give 2 a ammo and better pickaxe etc so both of them doing things effective.

 

And now it how is looking now -

both of them have to mining ineffective ( perks ) , looting ineffective etc. because 1 person would be afk without brass because he can't making ammo without brining brass by 2 person. And his job is after time pointeless because 2 person will find steel pickaxe and axe faster that 1 person will get steel tools parts to make steel tools

 

 

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, Crater Creator said:

 

That's one reason why they'd operate on the same basic idea as screamers.  Nobody sits in their base 24/7 because of screamer hordes, right?  So players wouldn't do that for bandit hordes, either.  There could even be a bandit 'screamer' that comes first, and whistles loudly or calls in on their walkie talkie if they see you.

 

Like anything else, the frequency of bandit hordes should be balanced appropriately so it's fun rather than tedious.  But it seems to me like a natural consequence of having a big, fancy base with a lot of valuable stuff should be that you're a bigger target for bandits.  After all, bandits are robbers by definition.  They should launch opportunistic attacks, rather than solely playing defense or lying in ambush.  And "a lot of valuable stuff" is probably the easiest option to quantify since everything already has an EconomicValue.

 

Funny story - i was doing quest near our base and my friend came to help me with loot. Screamer shows up near our base but nothing happens because zombies were triggered on us not on our base. In your situation bandits would focus on loot - so you can sit in near poi doing your job and in this same time bandits will rob your base because it will be still in "respawn range".   Using yours logic  the first thing that players should do is join to settlement to be safe because  more people easier to protect against zombie and bandits right? but honestly - friendly npc sounds good on paper but this would be overcomplicated, If  would be zombie game dev i would just make few settlements and make explanation like " almost  everybody sits in settlemtents because it is too dangerouse outside so even bandits dissappair after few years after outbreake, now only adventures and few psycho traveling" to minimalise stuff connected with them  

[Laz Man]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It is even more simple. Since you are the center of the world any bandits spawned outside of POIs have only one objective: to hunt you down. And they don't even need a reason like revenge, they want to kill you just for the lulz 😁

 

 

In other words, waiting is a sign of higher intelligence. Makes AI programming so much easier 😆

 

 

Can't wait to have dynamic events like this one...😁

 

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

You are right you can't get endless brass in one day, but I never claimed that. But over time or by producing different items to sell you can get more brass than you ever need.

 

 

Possibly, I never said anything about whether it would be effective or not.

 

 

Selling items need diffrent materials like leather or duck tape = so ineffective.

This can be done but it is like : you want to go from Rome to Paris

mining - you fly there using plane

Trading - you travel using your car but you go using highway - low chance to happens something random

Salvage - you travel using your car  but using only roads - bigger changer to happens something random

Looting - you travel using bus - you don't know how many bus stop will while you travel there

your solution - you go barefoot - slow , expensive ( food and drink ), very risky and need a lot of time,

 

 

You can say - " but if you add cooper ore players will have much more ammo" and it will be true so..... increase respawn of zombie and add some hard to kill but slow variants of zombie like : riot armored zombie -> military special force armored zombie -> saper suit zombie. Ofc it will make melee weapons less usefull and make them something like "POI cleaning/ traveling weapons" but.... well that's why we don't use swords on modern battlefield - guns are much better

[Crater Creator]

10 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Funny story - i was doing quest near our base and my friend came to help me with loot. Screamer shows up near our base but nothing happens because zombies were triggered on us not on our base. In your situation bandits would focus on loot - so you can sit in near poi doing your job and in this same time bandits will rob your base because it will be still in "respawn range".   Using yours logic  the first thing that players should do is join to settlement to be safe because  more people easier to protect against zombie and bandits right? but honestly - friendly npc sounds good on paper but this would be overcomplicated, If  would be zombie game dev i would just make few settlements and make explanation like " almost  everybody sits in settlemtents because it is too dangerouse outside so even bandits dissappair after few years after outbreake, now only adventures and few psycho traveling" to minimalise stuff connected with them  

 

faatal said, "They will not loot stuff or destroy things unless they are in their way just like the AI currently does." The 'bandit screamer' idea is designed to work within that framework, while still allowing your stuff to be a risk factor for how often bandits appear.  A 'bandit screamer' would focus on loot only in the same way that a zombie screamer focuses on forges.  Your stuff triggers them to spawn, but they don't attack or loot your stuff.  Again, I'm trying to work within the rules faatal has revealed on how bandits will work.

 

I didn't say anything about friendly NPCs.  These bandit screamers could be a separate system independent from other bandit encounters, the same way zombie screamers work independently from sleeper zombies in POIs.

[Matt115]

31 minutes ago, Crater Creator said:

 

faatal said, "They will not loot stuff or destroy things unless they are in their way just like the AI currently does." The 'bandit screamer' idea is designed to work within that framework, while still allowing your stuff to be a risk factor for how often bandits appear.  A 'bandit screamer' would focus on loot only in the same way that a zombie screamer focuses on forges.  Your stuff triggers them to spawn, but they don't attack or loot your stuff.  Again, I'm trying to work within the rules faatal has revealed on how bandits will work.

 

I didn't say anything about friendly NPCs.  These bandit screamers could be a separate system independent from other bandit encounters, the same way zombie screamers work independently from sleeper zombies in POIs.

Yes but you suggest that they should loot stuff  and i used anti argument as this would need some "safe system" like friendly npc 

[Matt115]

28 minutes ago, Nevergrey said:

Hi there!

 

Thanks for making 7 Days To Die.

 

Are there more extensive engine optimizations in progress, are the system specs for 7 Days To Die 'done' now or may increase in the future? I ask especially because of the performance issues with activated Dynamic Mesh and the high amount of memory usage while generating big maps.

 

Edit: sorry, I forgot to ask: Navezgane is a 6k map?

 

Nice to see new person here  

I think Faatal will know anwer on your question.

Navezgane in 32km^2 map

[AtomicUs5000]

52 minutes ago, Nevergrey said:

especially because of the performance issues with activated Dynamic Mesh and the high amount of memory usage while generating big maps.

 
What's wrong with utilizing a lot of memory to generate a map? I would want to to use whatever resources it has available... that's what I bought it for.

[Nevergrey]

13 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Navezgane in 32km^2 map

Thanks for the clarification. Someone here wrote that Navezgane is a fixed 6k map: 

I also asked to gauge a good size for a solo/offline map that can be generated with 24 GB RAM. But I will not get off topic.

 

 

Just now, AtomicUs5000 said:

 
What's wrong with utilizing a lot of memory to generate a map? I would want to to use whatever resources it has available... that's what I bought it for.

That's right. But how much RAM is enough to generate ANY world size you want to generate? And will this amount of RAM increase or decrease with further game development?

[AtomicUs5000]

6 minutes ago, Nevergrey said:

That's right. But how much RAM is enough to generate ANY world size you want to generate? And will this amount of RAM increase or decrease with further game development?

I'm assuming it's whatever they set as minimum requirements. They just recently approved support for larger maps, so I also assume they were already able to optimize it enough to fall within whatever those minimum requirements are.

[Nevergrey]

14 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I'm assuming it's whatever they set as minimum requirements. They just recently approved support for larger maps, so I also assume they were already able to optimize it enough to fall within whatever those minimum requirements are.

Regarding Steam the minimum requirements are: Core i5-4430, GTX 760/R9 270X, 8 GB RAM.

Core i5, GTX 760 or R9 270X - no problem if you lower some graphic settings. But only 8 GB RAM? 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Nevergrey (see edit history)

[AtomicUs5000]

44 minutes ago, Nevergrey said:

But only 8 GB RAM? 

Are you trying to generate a 10k map with 8GB of RAM and it is not working?

[Nevergrey]

2 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Are you trying to generate a 10k map with 8GB of RAM and it is not working?

I've never played 7 Days To Die with 8 GB of RAM. I already started playing it with 16 GB RAM. To be honest, I've played only solo offline and Navezgane so far. But I'll experiment with Random World Generation when Navezgane gets boring (whenever that might be).

 

Back on topic (Alpha 21). I have some (probably silly) ideas for the game: 

 

- A day and night realtime option, depending on the player's system clock.

- Seasons, depending on the player's system date. A part of the map that is only accessable on the day of a full moon (like in Dungeon Keeper).

- Zombie fishes. Something that attacks you when you swim through water.

- A Zombie like the 'Pregnant' in Dead Space. You shoot it and it vomits out smaller enemies.

- A Zombie that will temporarily contaminate a area with toxic fumes when dying. There was a discussion about Zombie children in the past and I'd like to see them in this game too. For example there could be a group of Zombie children that are protected by a big Guardian-Zombie (yeah, I've played Bioshock too). The Zombie children attack, but you can't kill them. If you hit or shoot them, they just fall on the ground giggling, stand up and continue attacking. You need to kill the Guardian. When the Guardian dies, he befogs the area and the Zombie children just vanish in this fog (while maybe singing a nursery rhyme?). So we have Zombie children in the game, but without the problematic of killing them. 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by Nevergrey
Spelling error and some more ideas. Sorry, my English isn't so good. (see edit history)