Idea: Disassociate loot stage from player

[Kasad]

I'm just brainstorming here but please hear me out. I think removing the player variable from the loot stage would solve a lot of problems and simplify the loot progress for both the players and the devs alike.

 

I'm suggesting two changes. The first is this:

 

New Loot Type = [OPTIONAL] Zombie type (for loot bags)[OPTIONAL] + Area Type (forest<burned<snow<wasteland) + POI type (small houses<bigger houses< skyscrapers /hospitals<military bases etc basically based on Tier difficulty quest) + Bloodmoon Stage (is independent from POI type)

 

New Loot Quality (could be) like this (numbers may vary):

 

New Loot Quality Table=

Level 1 items for player level 0-10

Level 2 items for player level 10-20

Level 3 items for player level 20-30

Level 4 items for player level 30-40

Level 5 items for player level 40-50

Level 6 items for player level 50-60

 

Let me give you an example:

 

For a player 20 level, inside a Tier 2 quest in a snow biome could be like this:

New Loot type= 3 + 2 = 5

Loot quality found = 3 

During bloodmoon the player would get from slaying a zombie a bag with the following loot:

New Loot type= 3 + 2 + 2= 7

Loot quality found = 3 

 

Now instead of having to painstakingly calculate the dynamic loot stage, the item pool becomes significantly smaller to handle:

 

-Loot type is essentially "disjoined" from player levels and "locked" on areas.

-Item/tool levels are "locked" to player level

-Players will find significantly more loot on higher difficulty POIs than farming on their bases (exception: bloodmoon stage).

-Players can check their loot level from character menu (as they do now, but it is dynamically changed when inside POIs)

-Low level characters CAN farm end game loot in higher difficulty POIs assuming they are experienced enough to stay alive there.

-Players can farm good loot type items in their bases only during bloodmoon, where the best and hardest bases are in wastelands.

 

What do you think?

Edited January 17, 2022 by Kasad (see edit history)

[Boidster]

1 hour ago, Kasad said:

-Low level characters CAN farm end game loot in higher difficulty POIs assuming they are experienced enough to stay alive there.

 

This is the crux of the change I think. TFP is trying to gradually introduce not only Quality, but also Tier as the character progresses (and for non-tiered items like ammo or schematics, gradually roll out 'better' results as you level up).

 

I guess with your method, you can't ever find anything better than (for example) a plain pistol in the forest, but you can always (and only) go to the wasteland to get an SMG. Stone axes in the forest, augers in the wasteland. I don't think I'd enjoy it, but it would definitely require people to go to different biomes to find stuff.

[theFlu]

I read it through, it's not a bad draft for A loot system, but it opens up a pile of questions. Biggest of them is, what is the issue you're trying to solve?

 

The system you describe is pretty well replicated by the current one, with the exception that the current one uses a player's level as a "base level" to all loot, with your staging modifiers working as multipliers to that; I fail to see a significant difference.

 

Other than being able to run into wasteland to loot guaranteed quality 1 chainsaws and augers on day 1?

[Vaeliorin]

I'd hate having to spend time in the wasteland.  It's not that it's hard (it isn't when you're decently geared) but just that's it so ugly.

 

I've admittedly gone there to farm zombie bears (I needed rotten flesh for my farm) but I only spent an hour or so (found 2 Q6 Chainsaws and a Q6 Auger from cars while there.  Sadly, I don't use either.)

[John Black]

I'm currently playtesting a world with these settings. Would love to do some more tuning but I don't know how to do certain things via XML(Risk vs Reward). It's been a lot of fun so far, zipping over to the burned biome early on for some better loot was worth it but ** scary and dangerous. (Warrior with run during day). I once attempted to do a quest in the snow biome and was pretty much chased out of the biome and didn't return until days later.

 

[GlyphGryph]

It' weird how much better the wasteland loot modifier is compared to desert and snow biome, especially considering it's really not all that much more difficult to survive there, especially early on before you even have the option of going loud at night which is something the Wasteland punishes you for. Imo, the snow biome is actually quite a bit harder to live in until at least mid-game. Zombie bear party crashers are always a risk, of course, but a risk that is well worth the extra loot even/especially on harder difficulties, imo. And I rather enjoy the feeling of turning a section of wasteland into  a thriving area full of life.

 

It just hate the damned weather, why can't wasteland have clear days once in a while, jeez!

Edited January 19, 2022 by GlyphGryph (see edit history)

[Kasad]

On 1/18/2022 at 2:11 AM, theFlu said:

I read it through, it's not a bad draft for A loot system, but it opens up a pile of questions. Biggest of them is, what is the issue you're trying to solve?

 

The system you describe is pretty well replicated by the current one, with the exception that the current one uses a player's level as a "base level" to all loot, with your staging modifiers working as multipliers to that; I fail to see a significant difference.

 

Other than being able to run into wasteland to loot guaranteed quality 1 chainsaws and augers on day 1?

 

I'm honestly trying to make the game look more fun. I hate having to grind levels to gain better loot. I really dislike the grinding aspect. Military bases should be filled with high end loot followed by military zombies and policemen, hospitals should be filled with nurses and policemen, gas stations with bikers and so on. Wasteland would add a high chance to spawn them as irradiated ones.

 

What @John Black did was also amazing and perhaps beautified what I wanted to do. Can you tell us how to make those changes? I'd like to add a huge multiplier per biome just for fun.

[theFlu]

10 minutes ago, Kasad said:

I'm honestly trying to make the game look more fun. I hate having to grind levels to gain better loot. I really dislike the grinding aspect. Military bases should be filled with high end loot followed by military zombies and policemen, hospitals should be filled with nurses and policemen, gas stations with bikers and so on. Wasteland would add a high chance to spawn them as irradiated ones.

 

Right, a more "static" world, where a POI doesn't just magically change its contents when you happen to bonk enough heads for XP. I can respect that, that could make for interesting games. I think modding is the best course of action, the pimps seem pretty intent about the current way. Let's hope Johnny can deliver ..

[Kasad]

I found it, it's on biomes.xml . There are two variables, one is lootstage_modifier and the other one is lootstage_bonus. I multiplied lootstage bonus by 20 let's see how it goes.

[John Black]

The output generated from the spreadsheet with a bit of cleanup. You can add this to an existing mod or create a new mod and use the xml as a starting point. Hopefully we'll be able manipulate gamestage and lootstage a bit more in future.

 

--- entityclasses.xml ---

Spoiler

<config>
    
	<insertAfter xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class/effect_group/passive_effect[@name='BagSize']">
		<!-- pine_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="gamestage" operation="base_set" value="0">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="3"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- desert -->
		<passive_effect name="gamestage" operation="base_set" value="50">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="5"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- burnt_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="gamestage" operation="base_set" value="100">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="9"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- snow -->
		<passive_effect name="gamestage" operation="base_set" value="200">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="1"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- wasteland -->
		<passive_effect name="gamestage" operation="base_set" value="300">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="8"/>
		</passive_effect>

		<!-- pine_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="perc_add" value="0" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="3"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- desert -->
		<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="perc_add" value="0.5" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="5"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- burnt_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="perc_add" value="1" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="9"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- snow -->
		<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="perc_add" value="1.5" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="1"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- wasteland -->
		<passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="perc_add" value="2" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="8"/>
		</passive_effect>

		<!-- pine_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="0.00" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="3"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- desert -->
		<passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="-0.33" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="5"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- burnt_forest -->
		<passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="-0.50" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="9"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- snow -->
		<passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="-0.60" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="1"/>
		</passive_effect>
		<!-- wasteland -->
		<passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="-0.67" tags="oreWoodHarvest">
			<requirement name="InBiome" biome="8"/>
		</passive_effect>
	</insertAfter>
	
</config>

 

 

biomes.xml

Spoiler

<config>

	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='pine_forest']/@lootstage_modifier">0</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0  Bonus: 0 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='desert']/@lootstage_modifier">0</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0.5  Bonus: 10 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='burnt_forest']/@lootstage_modifier">0</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0.5  Bonus: 10 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='snow']/@lootstage_modifier">0</set>   <!-- Modifier: 1  Bonus: 20 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='wasteland']/@lootstage_modifier">0</set>   <!-- Modifier: 1.5  Bonus: 30 -->

	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='pine_forest']/@lootstage_bonus">100</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0  Bonus: 0 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='desert']/@lootstage_bonus">200</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0.5  Bonus: 10 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='burnt_forest']/@lootstage_bonus">250</set>   <!-- Modifier: 0.5  Bonus: 10 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='snow']/@lootstage_bonus">300</set>   <!-- Modifier: 1  Bonus: 20 -->
	<set xpath="/worldgeneration/biomes/biome[@name='wasteland']/@lootstage_bonus">350</set>   <!-- Modifier: 1.5  Bonus: 30 -->

</config>