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Did they adjust the door fixation they had in A19?


sbaker10
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As a player since 2013, I don't necessarily mind the changes between alphas that force people to figure out new strategies but in the case of A19, I found the programming initially feel extremely cheap and unfair up until the point you figure out their AI and then they become so easy to manipulate that it practically removes the sense of danger completely. I feel like the most dangerous thing about the horde and what's kept it exciting for hundreds of hours over the years is that their AI was utterly unpredictable, you had no idea where they'd try to come through at or what they might end up doing and their occasional stupidity made them more dangerous, years ago I remember being somewhere in the day 40-60 range and I and a couple friends had gotten lucky on RNG that game and built up a completely steel plated fortress with numerous escape paths and support walls, after spending the night picking off the horde from the roof I went down to inspect the damage and found that they'd dug under the base and hollowed out a massive cavern right underneath and that it could've collapsed entirely had that managed to dig it out just a bit more. It was that sort of chaos that's made the game fun enough over the years that with A20 released I'm ready to shell out the money for a new GPU so I can play again.

 

However compare that to my experience in A19 where we decided to reinforce the entrance to the base just a little too much only to see them instantly fixate on a exact spot right where we are at and have them tear through the steel plated concrete wall in literally a couple seconds, sure they're more dangerous than before in that instance, in fact so much so that it was the first time it ever just felt un fun and I've been playing since 2013 back when every single night every zombie in the area would start demolishing whatever you're hiding in, by the next horde we'd figured out you could simply bait them with a door or even a series of doors and they'd line up in a nice tight group for you to unload on and would completely ignore the much weaker iron bars in-between you and them and if you don't take advantage of their AI, then horde's new psychic ability to instantly identify and target the weakest point of your base with pinpoint precision means they'd tear a path to you within seconds every single bloodmoon. So I'm curious if their AI has been tweaked a little for Alpha 20 or if horde mechanics are largely the same, either way A20 is still making it tempting to buy a new GPU now rather than waiting a bit longer for prices to drop but honestly  defending the base with friends and trying to predict the horde has always been one of the most fun parts of this game so I'm hoping it's not going to be the exact same A19 mechanics again, what's been everyone's experience so far?

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1 hour ago, Whiteshark68 said:

As far as i know they will target the weakest blocks to enter the base so your door must have been the "weakest" point in your defense ring so once you upgraded the door it must have had more hp than the blocks.

They definitely are programmed to prioritize to target doors alone over weaker points to a certain degree, I had a room set up as a killzone with iron bars and unreinforced concrete blocks making up the wall in between where I was at and where the horde was entering, to access where I was at by going through the doors you had one fully upgraded steel door that opened into a small hallway before a second fully upgraded steel door opened into the room I was in.

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The current AI, while impressive in a lot of ways, is pretty brutal at tearing a path to get to the player.

 

This has led to players developing bases that exploit pathing so that zombies won't attack blocks, and are instead funneled into kill corridors.

 

I don't know what the future holds, but there are some folks coming up with innovative bases to survive horde night like this fight ring base.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l29XW-cNgw8

 

 

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4 hours ago, pahbi said:

exploit

 

I really don't think that's the right word. This is a self-proclaimed tower defence game after all and funnelling is a primary tactic of that genre - otherwise it'd just be a battle of attrition, like two boxers not moving, not defending, just alternating punches at each other until one falls down*. 

 

*Hyperbole warning:

Spoiler

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2 hours ago, BarryTGash said:

 

I really don't think that's the right word. This is a self-proclaimed tower defence game after all and funnelling is a primary tactic of that genre - otherwise it'd just be a battle of attrition, like two boxers not moving, not defending, just alternating punches at each other until one falls down*. 

 

 

 

I guess I could have said, 'take advantage of' or 'make the most of' or something similar, but it all boils down to the same thing.  Figuring out ways to keep zombies from attacking blocks so your base isn't destroyed.

 

You have to concede, its a little uncanny how a herds of zombies can instantly pinpoint the weakest point in your base and focus that spot down to get inside.

 

And thus players had to adapt the bases to take into account that zombies can't be stopped just by using strong blocks like concrete to slow them down long enough to kill them and survive the night.  Just look at youtube, the vast majority of the bases are all variations on the same killing corridor theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEPrIN9CMkI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzR2hooIayc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYWkSVUg8vU

 

Though, to be fair, there are a few interesting builds like this pole jump base https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVyuUHkS7g

 

 

 

 

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IMO, the short answer is no.  If I understand your question correctly.

 

My current base is a made house on 4 pillars 8 blocks of ground.  Open center on first floor.  At ground level I built 4 corridors one block wide which meet in the middle to form a "plus".  Walls on each corridor make the center a one block intersection.  I put doors on each side of the 4way stop sorta speak.  I line the house pillars with wood spikes.  On horde night they just come up the corridor to beat on doors.  I just shoot arrows from top.  This was default vanilla only change is block damage 50% on blood moon nights.

Edited by Rotor (see edit history)
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From a gameplay loop though, overall I think the AI change was for the better.

 

Prior to the AI change, repairing the base after a blood night would take forever and was pretty boring, especially before the nail gun when all we had was a hammer.

 

Since the base doesn't take much damage now, we can just make few repairs, and then its back to exploring, gathering and crafting.

 

Overall, a huge increase in time spent doing fun things.

 

 

Edited by pahbi (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, pahbi said:

repairing the base

 

I just wish damaged blocks were more apparent - specifically relatively minor damage (I'm a bit obsessively compulsive when it comes to things like repairing). Even a toggleable overlay when a repair tool is equipped that highlights blocks not at 100%, though somewhat immersion breaking, would help pinpoint all damaged blocks. 

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The AI feels improved in A20 compared to A19 imo.  Yes most will follow a certain path depending on your base setup and what direction they spawned from which is intended for the tower defense side of the game.

 

However, some will be more unpredictable which creates some variability which is much needed.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Laz Man said:

The AI feels improved in A20 compared to A19 imo.  Yes most will follow a certain path depending on your base setup and what direction they spawned from which is intended for the tower defense side of the game.

Based on what I've observed so far and what I've tested myself, two things seems to have been changed.

 

The zombies switch longer and more often into Destroy Area mode when they fall down somewhere than they used to do. And they switch into Destroy Area mode when a passage is blocked e.g. by other zombies.

 

So as long as the paths are wide enough and the zombies don't keep falling down somewhere, they should remain somewhat predictable.

 

Players should also not be too stingy with resources when building bases. It is better to build a few more supports and everything thicker than necessary instead of standing in front of the ruins of a collapsed base.

 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, RipClaw said:

Players should also not be too stingy with resources when building bases. It is better to build a few more supports and everything thicker than necessary instead of standing in front of the ruins of a collapsed base.

 

 

Interesting.  I am not a number cruncher.  I protect my pillars with spikes.  I am only up to cobblestones.  I could add some support to the inner side of each pillar.  It is going to reduce my kill zone vision, but maybe I would not have to pay attention to the pillars.  Although if I were to start again, 4 columns per pillar would allow the base foot print to be 2 blocks wider therefor kill zone become equal.  Think I would have to move to flat ground as right now I am on top of a Mesa just the perfect size for 8x8.  Maybe I will forgo a week of looting and start another base.  This might on be bad at all, keep a craft base and a horde night base.  So many choices, so little time :).

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