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Ammo in loot in A20


praekokion
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So, let's talk ammo in loot in A20. I like the idea, that ammo isn't TOO scarce, and that you can actually use the pipe weapons now and then by finding ammo early game and so on. But seriously - this is just too much.

 

This is on Day 20, default everything (other than 64 zombie hordes). NOTHING in this chest was crafted (beside the gas and the bullet casings). I mainly used 9mm for "daily driving" and 7.62 for both horde nights (no passive traps, no explosives). I didnt buy any ammo from traders, also didnt pick ammo as mission reward. Never mined a single bit of coal or nitrate. But still I am sitting here with almost 2.000 shotgun shells, around 2500 9mm and almost 1500 7.62 ammo. I think this is a tad too much.

 

I like all the other loot tho, so changing loot % overall, will lead to the game being way less fun for me. It's a pitty. 

 

What do you guys think? Does this actually make sense, to have THIS much ammo in loot..?

Ammo.png

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Wow. That's pretty impressive. And I was happy with my three stacks of 7.62 just before the 14th day horde.

 

But again, I'm not a particularly good shooter. I tend to miss quite a lot.

 

The only ammo that I really have plentiful is 9mm because I don't use it at all.

 

But yes, maybe they could tone it a little bit down. (I can see it, next patch you will never see ammo until gamestage 999).

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I do think its a bit to easy to find, but I can only imagine that is due to needing to provide ammo to pipe weapons prior to being able to craft it. I think they should limit it to only ammo piles/munitions chests/gun safes/cars.

 

finding ammo in a junk pile seems very unlikely given the game scenario

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The biggest difference I found between A19 and A20 is: a) less ammo early game in A20; and 2) you never have to craft regular ammo in A20 (other than maybe .44 ammo).  In A19, I always had more ammo by Day 7-14 than I did in A20. But I would usually craft ammo for hordes 14-28, I may not have strictly needed to but I liked having a cushion. After that, I usually found enough regular ammo that I would smelt it to make AP rounds.

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I must add: I am aware, that this problem "solves" itself, as soon as I up the difficulty by bullet sponge zombies. Default difficulty is fairly easy for me with 3k hrs in 7dtd and several thousand in FPS games. I wanted to give it a shot with the new Alpha and see how the balancing goes. On warrior difficulty I still get along pretty good with what I find ammo wise, above that I find myself needing to farm for ammo. I just figured, that the loot should probably be balanced for default difficulty, and above that I should start struggling to find enough ammo.. 

4 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

The biggest difference I found between A19 and A20 is: a) less ammo early game in A20; and 2) you never have to craft regular ammo in A20 (other than maybe .44 ammo).  In A19, I always had more ammo by Day 7-14 than I did in A20. But I would usually craft ammo for hordes 14-28, I may not have strictly needed to but I liked having a cushion. After that, I usually found enough regular ammo that I would smelt it to make AP rounds.

I didnt feel like there was less ammo in early game. I never used much early game in this playthrough, but since you can constantly get 60 or even 100 Bullets for finishing quests at the trader, while needing max. 10-15  to finish the quests, even when you constantly use guns, I could pile up so much in the early game, its not even funny :D

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53 minutes ago, praekokion said:

I didnt feel like there was less ammo in early game. I never used much early game in this playthrough, but since you can constantly get 60 or even 100 Bullets for finishing quests at the trader, while needing max. 10-15  to finish the quests, even when you constantly use guns, I could pile up so much in the early game, its not even funny :D

 

Trader rewards are random. Obviously there is a difference between Trader Rewards and what you find in loot. Trader RNG was not in my favor in my first playthrough. I had little to no 9mm or 7.62 the first week. After that it started to accumulate.

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11 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

 

Trader rewards are random. Obviously there is a difference between Trader Rewards and what you find in loot. Trader RNG was not in my favor in my first playthrough. I had little to no 9mm or 7.62 the first week. After that it started to accumulate.

Fair enough, I had the feeling that if you did enough quests, you will get mroe ammo than you use - on average. But thats also only a gut feeling after 3 "playthroughs" until day 10-20ish

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14 hours ago, praekokion said:

Fair enough, I had the feeling that if you did enough quests, you will get mroe ammo than you use - on average. But thats also only a gut feeling after 3 "playthroughs" until day 10-20ish

In my second playthrough, I've been a little luckier. I've had a little more 7.62mm drop so I can actively hunt wolves at night but still have less than 100 rounds. And I found a Q2 pistol by day 3 so I have an actual use for 9mm ammo (I never liked the pipe pistol).  I also got an AK as a trader reward on day 3 or 4 (same thing happened last play through as well). That said, I always had a pistol or AK by Day 7 in A19. And I always had enough ammo for horde night.  I'm not sure that will be the case here.

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have a lot more ammo and better quality gear than i did on day 20 and i don't even shoot ammo, i do melee build/melee horde base so i'd guess its pretty RNG based on play style.

 

(you also say you're doing 64 zombie horde, so you probably get more yellow bag drops, they seem to always have lots of ammo)

so again, playstyle.

Edited by rykn0w (see edit history)
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My only question is: how do you kill most of the zombies on non horde night? Looking at the machete and crossbow has me wondering if that has anything to do with all the ammo. I know when I played a strength build and clubbed most zombies I ended up with a ton of ammo, simply because I never used it. But that was A19, haven't started A20 yet.

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Club/axe early on,  knuckles/guns later.

 

T5 was knuckes for just a few zeds, guns for the "busy sections"

(getting broken arms from punching  negates the brawler perks)

 

While fun getting into the "dunny",  much easier (and faster) to just mow'em down

with the M60.

 

(shotgun does too much block damage for me to feel comfy using it in a POI. pity)

 

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21 hours ago, rykn0w said:

have a lot more ammo and better quality gear than i did on day 20 and i don't even shoot ammo, i do melee build/melee horde base so i'd guess its pretty RNG based on play style.

 

(you also say you're doing 64 zombie horde, so you probably get more yellow bag drops, they seem to always have lots of ammo)

so again, playstyle.

The 64 zombies is how many max can spawn at a time for a horde night. 8 zombies is too little and can take a lot longer than 64. You've both got a varying playstyle, but I'd reckon the ammo amount would roughly total near the same amount if y'all didn't use any.

Edited by Darklegend222 (see edit history)
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On 12/18/2021 at 10:24 AM, Spatch said:

Day 13 in our two-person playthrough and ammo is still scarce.  I have maybe 80 rounds of 7.62 and have to be very judicious in its use.

 

And to answer the OP's question, nope, that is not too much!  That looks just about right!

 

On day 13 i'd still be using a baseball bat, steel club or archery to kill zombies and wouldn't even be wasting bullets, unless something like a bear, or dire wolf showed up.

4 hours ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Club/axe early on,  knuckles/guns later.

 

T5 was knuckes for just a few zeds, guns for the "busy sections"

(getting broken arms from punching  negates the brawler perks)

 

While fun getting into the "dunny",  much easier (and faster) to just mow'em down

with the M60.

 

(shotgun does too much block damage for me to feel comfy using it in a POI. pity)

 

 

I feel the same way about shotguns, way to much block damage very risky to use it in most poi's as its easy to have a pellet miss then destroy a loot container behind a zombie. One time in A19 I had a horde night I used a shotgun, and by the next morning it dug a pretty big cave outside in the direction I was shooting from the stray pellets.

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15 hours ago, Scyris said:

 

On day 13 i'd still be using a baseball bat, steel club or archery to kill zombies and wouldn't even be wasting bullets, unless something like a bear, or dire wolf showed up.

 

I feel the same way about shotguns, way to much block damage very risky to use it in most poi's as its easy to have a pellet miss then destroy a loot container behind a zombie. One time in A19 I had a horde night I used a shotgun, and by the next morning it dug a pretty big cave outside in the direction I was shooting from the stray pellets.

 

I did that the first time I tried using a rocket launcher on the zombies during a BM.

Dug a deeeep pit, but didn't kill all the zeds.

oops.

 

 

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I have a comblete chest full of Shotgun shells and am close to the 3rd horde.
I mean honestly if anyone has trouble with ammo, you need to learn not to spraw a simple crawler with half an M60 magazine!



Yeah could be reduced by... to about 1/5th its current value.
That way you might actually need to craft it some day.

Edited by Viktoriusiii (see edit history)
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I notice you didn't say which level you are on day 20, but I would guess pretty high-level since you have lots of end-game gear. For a shooter-experienced player it is easy to speed-run the game, normal players do NOT have a blue machete on day 20. Far from it.

 

If you only need 15 bullets per POI even when using guns then you must be able to make headshots every single time. "Normal"  players hope to get body shots in and I would estimate use from 3-5 bullets per single zombie (though what is normal in this case? I'm using this word since I couldn't think of a better one).

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

normal players do NOT have a blue machete on day 20. Far from it.

I thought we were abnormal players, not normal players  😉

 

Day 5 finished on my current playthrough, I got a few Q1 iron tools, and a Q2 hunting knife I crafted myself, but nothing past Q2 at this point.

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7 hours ago, meganoth said:

I notice you didn't say which level you are on day 20, but I would guess pretty high-level since you have lots of end-game gear. For a shooter-experienced player it is easy to speed-run the game, normal players do NOT have a blue machete on day 20. Far from it.

 

If you only need 15 bullets per POI even when using guns then you must be able to make headshots every single time. "Normal"  players hope to get body shots in and I would estimate use from 3-5 bullets per single zombie (though what is normal in this case? I'm using this word since I couldn't think of a better one).

 

This is an excellent point. There is also a blue compound crossbow, a purple steel axe, and a green auger. That's not happening through just luck. You have to rush progression to get all of that. I'm on Day 16 or so (60 min days, regular XP gain) and if I had allocated my points differently I could craft a blue machete. I'm at level 3 in all of the agility weapon perks. If I'd allocated my perks differently I probably could have gotten the 5 more points I need to get to level 4 in the knife perk but then I'd be short in other areas that make the game more playable solo.  

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