A20 - Is Crafting finally worth it again?

[RyanX]

2 hours ago, Lerxst said:

I never understood how this game gravitated form the advertised "zombie survival sandbox RPG" into a first person shooter RPG. Seems they've slowly castrated the "survival" aspect with a wooden spoon, update after update.

+1

 

We play exclusively multiplayer, but I think the combination of the OP quest system and the "super loot room" at the end of every POI has hurt it.  My wife and I used to love exploring the POI's around our area, just looting and gaining xp, a nice even progression.  Now you are hindered if you don't go after the quest xp because it's so OP, and when we go to explore a random POI, the loot at the end is often gone because some other player has climbed in and snatched it already.

 

How is this fixed?  Not sure.  Make loot rooms less "loaded" and spread it more evenly around the POI?  I mean who came up with the idea that there would be unopened wooden crates and locked metal chests sitting on tables in every house's bedroom?

[minisith]

21 minutes ago, RyanX said:

 Now you are hindered if you don't go after the quest xp because it's so OP, and when we go to explore a random POI, the loot at the end is often gone because some other player has climbed in and snatched it already.

 

 

A lot servers I tried out had POIs that reset after certain amount of days.   Maybe you just never found them.  There are also servers just for PVP.   I played a lot of solo because all the bases that pop up out of no where, which A20 fixes!

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

Woah!
Both of these should be fixed by the devs though.
It is not the players responsibility to limit himself to have fun.

 

I was speaking generally to show that player themselves often don't know what is good for them. I actually witnessed a promotion for another game having too good items. And I nowhere claimed that was a good idea or that players need to make that decision, otherwise my argument that the game has to enforce limits would fail.

 

 

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Never have I said I wanted to be able to pull out a so-called 'uber-weapon' on day 1. However, what I do want to see is more than a singular path to obtaining Q6 anything other than being forced to go out and loot. The game itself touts its crafting systems, but when crafting is pointless (As it is now), I don't see any reason to even bother trying to gather everything to craft say a pick axe or a pair of pants... Arbitrary limits like the one this game puts on crafting just don't make sense at all, and this argument of "Players have no fun if not challenged" is not good enough to limit crafting as it has been.

 

This was just just an extreme example of a limit as you were arguing for "the game should not keep me from doing anything I want". Now obviously if you really meant "anything" with your "anything" we would be in creative menue territory. 

 

Crafting being pointless is hyperbole as well, especially with weapons finding and being able to craft the same quality is often only days apart which makes crafting the weapon feel  less rewarding but actually is quite well balanced. With armor though crafting is in a very good spot because all armor slot recipes share the same ingredients. So it often happens that you can craft the one or two missing pieces in your armor set long before finding them if you put points into the armor perk.

 

We are also often crafting mods on our server and naturally for building a lot of crafting is going on. So the game IS a crafting game.

 

PS: **If** I were using your all-or-nothing attitude I would have to say this is neither a crafting nor a looting game, it is a trading game because solar cells can only be bought 😁.   

 

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Crafting being pointless is hyperbole as well, especially with weapons finding and being able to craft the same quality is often only days apart which makes crafting the weapon feel  less rewarding but actually is quite well balanced.

Let me know when its possible to craft Q6 weapons. ... Oh wait, its not. Crafting is not well balanced.

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

With armor though crafting is in a very good spot because all armor slot recipes share the same ingredients. So it often happens that you can craft the one or two missing pieces in your armor set long before finding them if you put points into the armor perk.

Q6 Armor is craftable? When did that happen?

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

for building a lot of crafting is going on.

Now that I won't argue with, crafting for building is in a great spot, my problem is the lack of crafting anything at Q6 which doesn't exist due to whatever arbitrary reasoning that doesn't make sense at all. Try again.

[theFlu]

50 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

due to whatever arbitrary reasoning

The reasoning is "we want the players rewarded for raiding challenging POIs". You're free to disagree, but it doesn't make it arbitrary, just a different priority.

[meganoth]

21 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Let me know when its possible to craft Q6 weapons. ... Oh wait, its not. Crafting is not well balanced.

Q6 Armor is craftable? When did that happen?

 

Thats the all-or-nothing attitude.

 

21 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Now that I won't argue with, crafting for building is in a great spot, my problem is the lack of crafting anything at Q6 which doesn't exist due to whatever arbitrary reasoning that doesn't make sense at all. Try again.

 

No. I told you what reasons I assume to be behind this. 

 

 

[Sephiroth]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

Thats the all-or-nothing attitude.

No, that's just how I feel. Crafting isn't balanced if it cannot compete with looting and/or dealing with the traders. If I was capable of crafting Q6 tools, weapons and armor then I would believe crafting would be balanced. Otherwise it is not. That's just the plain and simple reasoning there.

 

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

No. I told you what reasons I assume to be behind this. 

So you only assume, yet you're a moderator of this board. Please get the Pimps here so they can explain their reasoning behind the unbalanced crafting here. Thank you.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

No, that's just how I feel. Crafting isn't balanced if it cannot compete with looting and/or dealing with the traders. If I was capable of crafting Q6 tools, weapons and armor then I would believe crafting would be balanced. Otherwise it is not. That's just the plain and simple reasoning there.

 

So you only assume, yet you're a moderator of this board. Please get the Pimps here so they can explain their reasoning behind the unbalanced crafting here. Thank you.

 

I can't command them. I'm not even an employee of TFP.

[bdubyah]

Man, lots of entitled brats coming out these days. Q6 crafting was removed to make people keep looting and not be able to just sit in their base and make all the best stuff without having to work for it. Same reason all the t3 things are schematic only. Madmole explained that at some point, but I'm not hunting it down for you. You can do that yourself while you wait for a response you deem appropriate. 

[Sephiroth]

43 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

Q6 crafting was removed to make people keep looting and not be able to just sit in their base and make all the best stuff without having to work for it

I'm sorry, Grinding up the materials, spending perk points to increase my quality level when crafting, setting up a base and finding the recipes is not having to work for it? Try again. That's completely the opposite here.

[TRNR]

Can someone point me in the right direction for where to post this. Whenever I try to generate a new world on 7DTD A20 the whole world is completely underwater with land spikes all over the map, or the game errors in the console and doesn't load into the world. Any suggestions?

 

Screen shot of error code in console https://ibb.co/CQvQPmh

[bdubyah]

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I'm sorry, Grinding up the materials, spending perk points to increase my quality level when crafting, setting up a base and finding the recipes is not having to work for it? Try again. That's completely the opposite here.

You can keep going all you want, expecting some answer that you'll never accept anyway, but it doesn't matter. You say it isn't balanced, yet it's how TFP wanted it. So it is balanced to them, and that's all that matters. I don't know how you can say just because you can't craft q6, crafting isn't balanced. You're trying to separate looting and crafting when the game is both. You can perk into things to make better ones, up to q5, as well as other bonuses. You want q6? Get off your ass and find them. That's almost exactly how Madmole put it back when they first made that change. The point of it being a reason to keep looting so that they game wouldn't get stale quite so fast. Not saying it's all perfect, but allowing q6 crafting won't make it better. And other than the few random people here and there, it seems most people are fine with the change.

 

And there are several mods that enable q6 crafting. So there's really no reason to sit here whining when you could've fixed this supposed travesty already and could be spending your time playing the game instead of demanding TFP personally come answer you...

[Sephiroth]

24 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

You want q6? Get off your ass and find them.

I shouldn't have to go out and loot for it. That's the problem, and it seems you are oblivious to this fact. I should have a choice whether or not I can get Q6 from either looting OR crafting, not only one way to get Q6. Sorry, try again.

 

25 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

The point of it being a reason to keep looting so that they game wouldn't get stale quite so fast.

The game gets stale only crafting it? Naw, the game gets stale constantly having to go out and search for @%$# when the option to craft is there, but denying me the option to craft is not the way to go. Sorry, try again.

 

26 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

And there are several mods that enable q6 crafting.

Really? I have to MOD the game to fix a balance problem? I'm sorry, now THAT is just ridiculous.

[hiemfire]

3 hours ago, bdubyah said:

Same reason all the t3 things are schematic only.

So are Tier 2. Tier 1 is unlocked by schematic or perk investment, Tier 0 is known from game start.

[bdubyah]

13 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

I shouldn't have to go out and loot for it. That's the problem, and it seems you are oblivious to this fact. I should have a choice whether or not I can get Q6 from either looting OR crafting, not only one way to get Q6. Sorry, try again.

 

The game gets stale only crafting it? Naw, the game gets stale constantly having to go out and search for @%$# when the option to craft is there, but denying me the option to craft is not the way to go. Sorry, try again.

 

Really? I have to MOD the game to fix a balance problem? I'm sorry, now THAT is just ridiculous.

Yeah, TFP should really balance their game around one person who thinks they should be able to just sit in their base and craft end game stuff all day... Sorry, complain again.

[Sephiroth]

1 minute ago, bdubyah said:

Yeah, TFP should really balance their game around one person who thinks they should be able to just sit in their base and craft end game stuff all day...

How the heck am I sitting in my base crafting all day when I have to go out and mine, gather, collect and loot the resources necessary to craft to begin with?

[hiemfire]

🍺

[bdubyah]

29 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

How the heck am I sitting in my base crafting all day when I have to go out and mine, gather, collect and loot the resources necessary to craft to begin with?

Well since you're already out there looting, then you will find some q6 stuff eventually. If you could get them looting and crafting, you'd end up with too many q6 items. That's why you can't craft them. You know...balance.

[Sephiroth]

13 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

balance

Does NOT equal LACK OF choice. Try again.

 

Why should I be without Q6 if RNG decides not to roll the die and provide me with Q6 when I'm out gathering the resources?

Edited December 8, 2021 by Sephiroth (see edit history)

[Darklegend222]

1 hour ago, Sephiroth said:

Really? I have to MOD the game to fix a balance problem? I'm sorry, now THAT is just ridiculous.

I'm curious to know how this is exactly a balanced problem? I can happily run around using level 5 iron knuckles and drinking beer or popping a skull crusher candy and bashing heads with an iron sledgehammer (which is arguably better than a steel sledgehammer due to that longer attack animation).

 

I've went out of my way to make mods for this game that allow loot to not be gated, birds nests to be plentiful, gun parts to be craftable, and quality level 6 to be craftable. Do I feel it's "unbalanced"? No.

 

If that quality 6 which can have 6-10 extra damage REALLY unbalances the game, perhaps you should get better at the game. If you notice, "unbalanced" isn't the proper term here, I believe the term your looking for is "logistics".

 

For instance, why should weapon parts only be scavenged? How was the very first shotgun made if they needed shotgun parts to make a shotgun, but it's literally impossible to craft the parts? Because they're "logistically" gating progression and forcing the player to scavenge, in order to do.. what was that term again? Oh yea, craft. Which is a massive part of the game.

 

You act as if you don't get perk points in order to craft that higher tier weapon or armor DOESN'T give you stats that make you even deadlier while using them. That's the trade off of not crafting Q6 items. You can craft any previous tier, AND get buffs for the items as well!

 

I've ran into times where I've crafted level 4 items and scavenged level 4 items immediately after, but you know what that means? I'm progressing ALONG with the game, which is the perfect place to be.

 

If you dislike it so much you should either quit the game, try out mods (which can really make the game a lot better), or put on your big boy/girl pants and realize that we all have differing opinions and the developers don't agree with Q6 being craftable and do what is needed to get them. Let's not throw logic out of the window here, it's perfectly balanced. If you're looking for 1 hit kills, lower that difficulty and have fun with a sandbox environment! Play how YOU wish.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Darklegend222 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

I did a playthrough when I could only use the items I crafted.  I did not find it unbalanced (Survivalist).  Sure I was not able to use any Q6 gear, but I found that didn't hinder me at all.

 

Any items I found in loot were scrapped for parts and rebuilt, then I sold my extra gear to the traders.  Use that money to stock up on ammo and any parts they may have.

 

You want to craft Q6 gear and the game doesn't have it, that's fine to state and fine to ask; but to state that the game is completely unbalanced for crafters just because there are items you can't craft is not true.

[Sephiroth]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

state that the game is completely unbalanced for crafters just because there are items you can't craft is not true.

Tell me then. What is there in the game that crafters can craft that looters simply cannot find or cannot barter for from traders? I'll take a trade off for something else that's important to progression if its so important that Q6 cannot be crafted...

[Stroichik]

On 12/4/2021 at 5:59 PM, eXSe said:

I don't think that they've messed with that 'cause it's a feature now, not a bug 🙂

 

The idea behind it is, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that you'll never be able to craft something top quality with your bloated sausage fingers that someone else has precisely machine tooled 😋

 

But u can now bloat sausage finger a pipe into machinegun now, by adding some glue to it. U dont even have to use machine parts. Apparently pipe has the needed mechanisms to send rounds into barrel and expel shot rounds.

[BFT2020]

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Tell me then. What is there in the game that crafters can craft that looters simply cannot find or cannot barter for from traders? I'll take a trade off for something else that's important to progression if its so important that Q6 cannot be crafted...

Is that even a requirement in this game?  Does there have to be something that can only be crafted?