I finally found a way to make the game interesting

[SnowDog1942]

On 10/5/2021 at 5:19 PM, Morloc said:

quite stiff at night.

 

I may have just what you are looking for.

[Matt115]

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Do you mean the time when the player uses iron tools when you say "iron stage"? I don't get it because after that comes the steel tools stage where mining is finally somewhat efficient.

 

It depends on your gamestyle. in my situation it looks like:

Day :120 min.

spawn doing some quests : now everything depends about cement mixer - if trader have this everything will go fast.

Make a forge and mining at night.

If everything going well after 4-5 days i have workbench and now i get iron stage because i can do iron tools.

Anddd.... you can't do nothing more until you find steel tools schematics ( faster that put everything in int) and steel parts. So stop mining because it is pointelss now and you are forced to : scavenging or doing quests

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

It depends on your gamestyle. in my situation it looks like:

Day :120 min.

spawn doing some quests : now everything depends about cement mixer - if trader have this everything will go fast.

Make a forge and mining at night.

If everything going well after 4-5 days i have workbench and now i get iron stage because i can do iron tools.

Anddd.... you can't do nothing more until you find steel tools schematics ( faster that put everything in int) and steel parts. So stop mining because it is pointelss now and you are forced to : scavenging or doing quests

 

 

So you reached iron stage after 4-5 days and then have to wait for steel tools schematics. And you propose that you instantly proceed to get steel tools on day 5-6.

 

But the schematics progression-gates are in the game for a reason. It is intentional that you can't get to the end of the progression immediately.

Meanwhile horde nights happen and the typical player needs raw materials for walls and traps and ammo and gasoline, so he has to mine (with less efficiency) or hope to find it through looting (which is not possible for clay, stone and wood at least). What is wrong with that?

 

It is the same thing with guns. In mid game you still don't have the best and most efficient gun. But you will still use your tier-1 or tier-2 gun to kill zombies and not play pacifist until you have the best gun.

Edited October 7, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

48 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

So you reached iron stage after 4-5 days and then have to wait for steel tools schematics. And you propose that you instantly proceed to get steel tools on day 5-6.

 

But the schematics progression-gates are in the game for a reason. It is intentional that you can't get to the end of the progression immediately.

Meanwhile horde nights happen and the typical player needs raw materials for walls and traps and ammo and gasoline, so he has to mine (with less efficiency) or hope to find it through looting (which is not possible for clay, stone and wood at least). What is wrong with that?

 

It is the same thing with guns. In mid game you still don't have the best and most efficient gun. But you will still use your tier-1 or tier-2 gun to kill zombies and not play pacifist until you have the best gun.

And there came "solutions" : you need materials to upgrade thing - and get exp to get faster better tools. if you have better tools you can spam barber wire and wooden spikes etc so using this you don't need to waste ammo or gasoline for long time because you just have ww1  fortifiction. If you have good tools you can faster destroy door, dig the ground etc so you can faster do quests and loot. Because well- hiting 300 times safe is not fun or destroying another door. so if i spend less time doing this i feel better.  

I agree with end of proggresion but : that's why i would makes guns rare thing a throw junk guns to bin- guns could something like boost - great advantage but for short time ( reduce number of ammo)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

And there came "solutions" : you need materials to upgrade thing - and get exp to get faster better tools. if you have better tools you can spam barber wire and wooden spikes etc so using this you don't need to waste ammo or gasoline for long time because you just have ww1  fortifiction. If you have good tools you can faster destroy door, dig the ground etc so you can faster do quests and loot. Because well- hiting 300 times safe is not fun or destroying another door. so if i spend less time doing this i feel better.  

I agree with end of proggresion but : that's why i would makes guns rare thing a throw junk guns to bin- guns could something like boost - great advantage but for short time ( reduce number of ammo)

 

That is your decision to wait for steel tools, but the game does not need to help you with that (especially when you already made your game easymode with 120minute days).

If it really did make steel tools easily available, iron tools would be a useless step in the progression and would better be removed from the game. Also a ww1 fortification doesn't help you save gasoline.

 

[Matt115]

Just now, meganoth said:

 

That is your decision to wait for steel tools, but the game does not need to help you with that (especially when you already made your game easymode with 120minute days).

If it really did make steel tools easily available, iron tools would be a useless step in the progression and would better be removed from the game. Also a ww1 fortification doesn't help you save gasoline.

 

Help a lot - you put a lot of spikes so you don't need electicity traps

[faatal]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:06 AM, Roland said:

faatal is totally addicted to Traders. I doubt he'll dump that monkey on his back.

Ha ha. I don't care for traders. Makes the game too easy. I pretty much just use them to sell junk to and buy books. Do the occasional quest. I want a survival experience, not a social one.

 

Trader stock would be a good setting. I'd go 10%, but when you have hundreds of things to do, features like that will often not happen or sometimes team members will object to a feature and it does not happen.

[BFT2020]

9 hours ago, faatal said:

Ha ha. I don't care for traders. Makes the game too easy. I pretty much just use them to sell junk to and buy books. Do the occasional quest. I want a survival experience, not a social one.

 

Trader stock would be a good setting. I'd go 10%, but when you have hundreds of things to do, features like that will often not happen or sometimes team members will object to a feature and it does not happen.

I'm the same way.  Once A20 drops and I played it vanilla a few times, I want to expand on my trader modifications which will be totally different and interesting (haven't playtested yet so it can be a complete bomb).  In my vision, traders only sell raw materials (limited quantities) and schematics / perk books.  This is critical as I am also removing the ability to perk into a schematic and the ability to find books / schematics in loot.  I think this is really going to slow down progression in the game (I am also removing weapons / tools / armor from loot so now you have to make your own equipment) - earning dukes will be slowed down since you won't find equipment (tools / weapons / armor) to see to the traders so you will either need to sell a lot of junk to them or do quests for them to earn dukes to unlock schematics.  The trick is making it tough and enjoyable without making it too frustrating.

[Maharin]

Personally, I'd much rather see a barter economy in the game than the currency one we have now.  Yeah, I know that's a lot harder to program. 

[Aldranon]

Or allow the trader to be destroyed by zombies or players even!

It should be well defended however.  I think one of the mods has that.

 

 

[Boidster]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:58 PM, Roland said:

I often ask people who complain about weak death penalties if they ever have that enabled and very very few ever do...lol. Do you, @bachgaman?

 

On 10/5/2021 at 5:44 PM, bachgaman said:

I don’t play with it, although I thought to try it many times.

 

Best part of the thread, right here.

[LordCorellon]

Ummm. No.
 

 

[Roland]

5 hours ago, LordCorellon said:

Ummm. No.
 

 

Is this a response to the original post or to Boidster right before you? I just can't tell...