I finally found a way to make the game interesting

[bachgaman]

Since, obviously, nothing of the proposed will never appear in the game, I reasoned that since I do not like the fact that the game forces me to repeatedly grind the same sad quests (because the trader's rewards are too high and it takes very little time to complete quests located close to the base) i have to simple delete the trader.

 

So, 

1. I removed all traders from the POI list

2. Installed the Undead Legacy mod (since it, among other things, removed the free opening of all important recipes in the game just for levels, here you can die of hunger and here there is at least some kind of death penalty. I think UL is best big mod btw)

3. Reduced the loot to 50%, disabled loot respawn, set the difficulty level Warrior (there is even no need for the Insane difficulty level at nightmare speed, without 600 rounds (for three people) for each completed tier 1 quest, it becomes quite difficult to play)

 

And voila, the game became really fun and interesting. We've been surviving for 40 days now, looking for food, moving around a huge 12kmap, looking for a claw hammer to create a workbench (lol), all the time trying to figure out how to defend ourselves against the bloody moon based on what we have, do what we want instead of a stupid grind of quests, we have the option not to push the int attribute for the sake of the imbe perks associated with the trader (Barter and Adventurer). We save ammo, and this is my first time hunting with bow in this game and so on. In general, the game has become unrealistically cool.

 

I advise everyone to delete the trader and play with real pleasure as true enjoyer.

[JCrook1028]

I agree on your opinion of mod chosen. I love it myself. You don't even need to delete the trader tho, simply don't use it if that's what you want.

[Lemmers]

1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

You don't even need to delete the trader tho, simply don't use it if that's what you want.

I see the logic in deleting it. It's like if I have snacks in my house I'm going to impulsively eat them. All of them. Even though logically you'd say, "Well just don't eat them" I find it hard to do. But if I just never buy them to begin with I don't have a problem.

Same goes with the trader. Remove temptation all together and you never have to think to yourself, "Why am I spending hours looking for a clawhammer when I could just buy one?" and just knowing that option exists kinda peeves you off the longer it takes to find one. But if the situation is, "Well I can only find a clawhammer from loot so let's keep looking" then your outlook is completely different and more positive despite your limitations being the same.

[BFT2020]

This is actually interesting, as I decided to go a different route with the traders on a modlet I am working on.  Instead of getting rid of them, I changed their purpose in the game.  I made the traders only sell specific items based on their "histories" and specialties (for example, Jen only has Health related items and Bob only has the construction related items).  However, I didn't stop there.  You cannot unlock recipes through the perk system anymore, and schematics / perk books are only available for sale from traders.  Weapons, tools, etc are now not able to be found in loot or even purchased from the traders, all they have are basic materials and ammo.  Quest rewards were also nerfed, so can't stock up on ammo by repeatedly doing quests; however, I am keeping them in so I can earn dukes in order to buy those books and schematics I want...and I didn't cheapen the price for them so you will have to do multiple T1 quests just to purchase your first one.

 

There are other changes I am making under the hood, but it will be interesting when I start using it for Alpha 20.  It may be exactly what I want, or it may fall flat on its face (and then I will wonder what the heck I was thinking  😉 ).  It doesn't remove traders like your method, but it does force me to explore and find the different traders in order to unlock the ability to craft what I want to.  So if I want to start a farm, I have to find Rekt.  If I want to build a base and defenses for it, I have to find Bob and Jen to unlock those options.  Weapons are spread out among the traders.  I might want to go clubs in my playthrough, but if the trader I find only has knives as the schematic, I will either have to adapt until I find the right trader or just live with T0 weapons.

 

However, your method is a lot less work to do  😉

[Maharin]

No loot respawn, no traders, no air drops.  It's a good start.

[Laz Man]

Lots of cool challenges, gameplay styles and mods.  Its what makes this game great.  Once you guys get A20 you will also have the added challenge of feral sense to test your survival skills against...:p

[Roland]

I simply delete the starter quest at the very beginning so no free 4 points and no GPS to the first trader. I also challenge myself to stay within a km of my starting area until I make a bicycle. Once I do find a trader I do only one job per day.

[Ramethzer0]

Congrats.  You learned how to use your toggle settings effectively.

[bachgaman]

2 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Congrats.  You learned how to use your toggle settings effectively.

Funny, but the most important actions are not in the game settings, such as deleting the merchant and disabling recipes from perks. If I could achieve this without resorting to mods and manual editing of the POI list, then I would not create this thread.

3 hours ago, Roland said:

I simply delete the starter quest at the very beginning so no free 4 points and no GPS to the first trader. I also challenge myself to stay within a km of my starting area until I make a bicycle. Once I do find a trader I do only one job per day.

The problem of the trader is not only in the early game, but also in the late one, because he literally chains you to the nearest 5th tier building and you go crazy visiting it over and over again and you can't help but do it because it has incredibly higher efficiency than any other activity.

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Lots of cool challenges, gameplay styles and mods.  Its what makes this game great.  Once you guys get A20 you will also have the added challenge of feral sense to test your survival skills against...:p

By the way, I didn't really understand these changes in the A20, because there are already feral zombies. Those fast @%$#s with burning eyes. What are they going to do with them?

[Roland]

10 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

The problem of the trader is not only in the early game, but also in the late one, because he literally chains you to the nearest 5th tier building and you go crazy visiting it over and over again and you can't help but do it because it has incredibly higher efficiency than any other activity.

He doesn't literally or figuratively chain me to anything. Playing for incredibly high efficiency makes me gag...

 

If YOU are chained then by all means remove that trader and more power to you. I'm not addicted nor am I susceptible to efficiency by a long shot.

[Gamida]

I can quit anytime I wan.........oh gotta go, it's 6:05

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Gamida said:

I can quit anytime I wan.........oh gotta go, it's 6:05

lol...my brother mods the game so that the trader is open 24/7. He loves all night shopping...

[Loboling]

I'm doing a no trader modded romero mod, and some vehicle & weapon expansions. Wandering hordes every 1-3 hours of 8-40 zombie. Insane difficulty. I spent my first day setting up outposts, one in a poi, but another is just a scaffolding I built, that I can run to in an emergency. I'm still just getting started on the playthrough, but my win condition is getting a gyro and flying off the island. Permadeath. No repair kits in loot, and now costs 100 forged iron & 100 duct tape. 50% loot.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Loboling (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Funny, but the most important actions are not in the game settings, such as deleting the merchant and disabling recipes from perks. If I could achieve this without resorting to mods and manual editing of the POI list, then I would not create this thread.

The problem of the trader is not only in the early game, but also in the late one, because he literally chains you to the nearest 5th tier building and you go crazy visiting it over and over again and you can't help but do it because it has incredibly higher efficiency than any other activity.

By the way, I didn't really understand these changes in the A20, because there are already feral zombies. Those fast @%$#s with burning eyes. What are they going to do with them?

7) Feral Sense Game Option

• When turned on Zombies can sense the player from much farther away and stay focused on the optimal path to where the player is
• Stealth still works but zombie senses are heightened so stealth play is much more challenging
• Settings are: Off, Day, Night, All

[bachgaman]

4 hours ago, Laz Man said:

7) Feral Sense Game Option

• When turned on Zombies can sense the player from much farther away and stay focused on the optimal path to where the player is
• Stealth still works but zombie senses are heightened so stealth play is much more challenging
• Settings are: Off, Day, Night, All

That is, they simply increase the radius of vision and this is called an update, amazing

6 hours ago, Loboling said:

I'm doing a no trader modded romero mod, and some vehicle & weapon expansions. Wandering hordes every 1-3 hours of 8-40 zombie. Insane difficulty. I spent my first day setting up outposts, one in a poi, but another is just a scaffolding I built, that I can run to in an emergency. I'm still just getting started on the playthrough, but my win condition is getting a gyro and flying off the island. Permadeath. No repair kits in loot, and now costs 100 forged iron & 100 duct tape. 50% loot.

Yeah it's tough

8 hours ago, Roland said:

He doesn't literally or figuratively chain me to anything. Playing for incredibly high efficiency makes me gag...

 

If YOU are chained then by all means remove that trader and more power to you. I'm not addicted nor am I susceptible to efficiency by a long shot.

Obviously I'm talking about playing at the limit of possibilities, when the game is difficult and requires concentration and the most effective decisions, what's the point of writing about easy walks in a creative mode? I have nothing against it, but this is a completely different game. I'm glad for you that you are able to see interest in this, I see interest only in overcoming difficulties

[Gamida]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

lol...my brother mods the game so that the trader is open 24/7. He loves all night shopping...

lol Maybe it is the loneliness of SP. Talking to trader might be the only bit of "human" interaction we get in game.

[Kyonshi]

6 hours ago, Laz Man said:

7) Feral Sense Game Option

• When turned on Zombies can sense the player from much farther away and stay focused on the optimal path to where the player is
• Stealth still works but zombie senses are heightened so stealth play is much more challenging
• Settings are: Off, Day, Night, All

Aaaaw, its rigid like that? 😟 Last time i heard of this, it was supposed to be a slider that we can move to either increase or decrease the intensity of the feral sense. Meaning you can either be in a constant "blood moon" situation or make the zombies almost oblivious to you unless you get very close.

 

Now if its off, it just returns to the default feral sense?

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, Kyonshi said:

Aaaaw, its rigid like that? 😟 Last time i heard of this, it was supposed to be a slider that we can move to either increase or decrease the intensity of the feral sense. Meaning you can either be in a constant "blood moon" situation or make the zombies almost oblivious to you unless you get very close.

 

Now if its off, it just returns to the default feral sense?

Will see what the feedback there is in experimental, I'm sure faatal can improve upon it.  Its not GPS like bloodmoon but certainly can feel like it if your the type that loves to make alot of noise. 😄

 

It felt pretty good the last time I tested it.

[BFT2020]

6 hours ago, bachgaman said:

That is, they simply increase the radius of vision and this is called an update, amazing

 

Sometimes a change doesn't have to be huge to make a big impact on something.  A small change can have a cascading result.  Throw in other changes, and the impact can be felt long after you exit the game  😁

[JCrook1028]

15 hours ago, bachgaman said:

because he literally chains you to the nearest 5th tier building and you go crazy visiting it over and over again and you can't help but do it because it has incredibly higher efficiency than any other activity.

Tier 5 building aren't worth doing anyway so............. nope, they don't pose that problem for me.

[Kyonshi]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Will see what the feedback there is in experimental, I'm sure faatal can improve upon it.  Its not GPS like bloodmoon but certainly can feel like it if your the type that loves to make alot of noise. 😄

 

It felt pretty good the last time I tested it.

Yeah i know, this is why i put quotes to "blood moon" situation 😉

 

I would love to experiment with the feral sense meter and this is one feature that was making me excited for A20. I would like to try with maximum feral as well as taking it low but not straight turned off, like i mention earlier. But if its just an on/off switch, i cant lie that i would be a bit disappointed. I do wish that Fataal brings more nuance to it, but otherwise its all good, ill live with it.

[Roland]

4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

Sometimes a change doesn't have to be huge to make a big impact on something.  A small change can have a cascading result.  Throw in other changes, and the impact can be felt long after you exit the game  😁

 

That and the fact that adding options to the top menu of the game is always a solid update. You could approximate the feral option with xml edits even now but then you have to be comfortable making those edits. In A20 it will be an official option that can be enabled by anyone without modding knowhow not to mention that faatal spent time testing and making other adjustments so that it works better than it would have by us changing the value for radius of zombie vision.

 

Bach just doesn't care about it so he minimizes it. If faatal announced a new option to remove traders from the game with a simple toggle on the main menu, he would be much more excited and see it as a legit update even though it is basically the same type of thing.

[Maharin]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

If faatal announced a new option to remove traders from the game with a simple toggle on the main menu, he would be much more excited and see it as a legit update even though it is basically the same type of thing.

 

So when can we expect this official change by faatal? 

[Roland]

faatal is totally addicted to Traders. I doubt he'll dump that monkey on his back.

[Kyonshi]

14 hours ago, Roland said:

 

That and the fact that adding options to the top menu of the game is always a solid update. You could approximate the feral option with xml edits even now but then you have to be comfortable making those edits. In A20 it will be an official option that can be enabled by anyone without modding knowhow not to mention that faatal spent time testing and making other adjustments so that it works better than it would have by us changing the value for radius of zombie vision.

Can you quickly point me out which xml file has that zombie vision value? There's still a full month or so until A20 lands, so id like to fiddle around with this. Or maybe just drop a link to another thread if this already has been asked before. Thanks!