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What is 7 days to die?


Ashlockheart
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23 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

But thats the point. The TC said it was just an academic point for him ("I am not stressing over the game, or devs for sure, My responsibility is for me to decide, or feel how ever I want. ... and I was only wonder which one is was."). So this was like talking about the weather tomorrow and you associate him with some idiots on Facebook and act very confrontational up to an ad-hominem. If we did that to all first-time posters, a lot of regulars wouldn't be here, 50% of first time posts are rather sub-par I would say. Nay, 500% of them 😉

 

No. Again. I said that i've seen so much @%$# going on online against the Pimps that when i see someone confrontational and denying the evidence, i dont have much patience. Not that he's an @%$#s like the ones that plague the Facebook page. Im talking about me and my short fuse, in the first place.

 

English isnt my first language (french is) and although i can very well follow and take part to a discussion, maybe the formulation of my sentences can be misleading? Im trying to be as clear as possible.

 

Back to TC's struggle to get a point : if its only "academic" for him, why keep being confrontational when being told the evidence? He's been answered something 100% credible and verifiable to his question. He should just go like "Oh, i see, i was wrong in my assumptions. I maintain my own perception of the game but i understand that the founders have the last word about what their own game is". I dunno, something like that, instead of acting like a stubborn brat "No, i wont take it and i'll keep asking until i get THE answer that pleases me and until i hear what i wanna hear!"

 

I take way less @%$# than before with the morons on the Facebook page than before. But i do take the game, the work Rick, Joel and the team does to make it what it is right now close to the heart and it both saddens and @%$# me off to see people acting like dicks. That's why i have that kinda of speech. Like in life in general, when you're being told the factual obvious, you stfu, acknowledge you've been wrong and move the @%$# on. Keep asking the question that's now made pointless wont change the result...

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1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

No. Again. I said that i've seen so much @%$# going on online against the Pimps that when i see someone confrontational and denying the evidence, i dont have much patience. Not that he's an @%$#s like the ones that plague the Facebook page. Im talking about me and my short fuse, in the first place.

 

English isnt my first language (french is) and although i can very well follow and take part to a discussion, maybe the formulation of my sentences can be misleading? Im trying to be as clear as possible.

 

Back to TC's struggle to get a point : if its only "academic" for him, why keep being confrontational when being told the evidence? He's been answered something 100% credible and verifiable to his question. He should just go like "Oh, i see, i was wrong in my assumptions. I maintain my own perception of the game but i understand that the founders have the last word about what their own game is". I dunno, something like that, instead of acting like a stubborn brat "No, i wont take it and i'll keep asking until i get THE answer that pleases me and until i hear what i wanna hear!"

 

I take way less @%$# than before with the morons on the Facebook page than before. But i do take the game, the work Rick, Joel and the team does to make it what it is right now close to the heart and it both saddens and @%$# me off to see people acting like dicks. That's why i have that kinda of speech. Like in life in general, when you're being told the factual obvious, you stfu, acknowledge you've been wrong and move the @%$# on. Keep asking the question that's now made pointless wont change the result...

 

Then maybe the first language problem is the reason we read different things into his posts. While he keeps his own opinion and says so I don't see him being confrontational. "Confrontational" means forcefully attacking differing opinions or other persons, not just saying "its okay but I keep my opinion".

 

As I said above please first conclusively show that his view is definitely wrong (which you can't without being a mind reader) before you demand that he changes his mind. This is not the holy church of 7 Days believers who demand all to believe what we tell them or god will strike them down. Especially on a topic you yourself agree to being unimportant.

 

If the stuff on Facebook has no relevance to what the TC wrote why then cite it? As your motivation? Sorry, that is not an excuse or justification for being impolite.

 

PS: See the difference. I am now arguably a bit confrontational, especially with the sarcasm in paragraph 2.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Lemme light some candles on the philosophical cake here for just a moment.

 

Question: "What is 7 Days to Die?"

Answer: "Whatever you want it to be within the framework of the game that exists."

 

I keep a fond eye on the idea that people play games for a plethora of reasons, and these change over time as needs and desires change.  Any one or more of us could put just about any game into genre box, but ultimately if you look at just a larger picture you may potentially loose the nuance that could be the catalyst that hooks any given persons interest.  In this case, the game has several elements and more than 1 thread has begun over what kind of salad this game is, and quite frankly I feel the answer to these questions lies in the experience it brings.

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Adding to what’s been said, shifts in emphasis have been somewhat unavoidable while the game has and continues to be in development. You drop in a Minecraft-style crafting module one alpha, and suddenly 7 Days to Die is a game with a well developed crafting system.  You add random world generation the next alpha, and suddenly 7 Days to Die is a game with robust exploration and replayability.

 

It would be easy to construct a false narrative around these developments.  “The devs first thought this would just be a crafting game, but then they changed their minds and pivoted towards it being an exploration game.  Then they got bored with that, and hoped it could be a role playing game instead.  Then…” etc.  I see this feedback quite often on the Steam forum: that the devs must have no direction and can’t make up their minds.

 

But this ignores that the game is still being made.  A bake shop’s cookie dough might be tasty in its own right, but the bakers were never there to make cookie dough.  The fact that cookie dough was available first doesn’t mean that their plan A was to make cookie dough for everyone.  They were always there to make cookies.

Edited by Crater Creator
typo (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, meganoth said:

Rolands 1000% got me thinking, because something about that number seems wrong, I just can't put my finger on it 😁. I am surprised he did not add minecraft-type builder to the three genres he think were first. Did that really come later as a consequence of the tower-defense part needing some build capability ?

 

The three inspirations for the game from the very beginning were Minecraft, Fallout, and The Walking Dead.

 

From Minecraft we get crafting, unit block building, exploration

From Fallout we get post-apocalyptic RPG elements like the traders, quests, and player progression 

From Walking Dead we get zombies, setting up and defending a base, and survival

 

All of this was in the minds of the creators when they made their plans, did their preliminary prototype for kickstarter and then continued into early access on Steam. They NEVER said, lets build a survival game and then as they continued on added crafting, and building, and RPG elements as appendages to the main idea of survival. They NEVER said, lets make a tower defense game and then tried to mesh in elements of survival and roleplaying as supporting gameplay options. The idea itself was that it would be a hybrid game and they have pursued their goal without deviation from day one.

 

Sure, they experimented with HOW those goals might be implemented and some people became enamored with some of those experiments to the point that they thought that those implementations were the point of the game. For example, Learn By Doing was a method to push player progression and after experimenting with it they chose a more traditional (and much more Fallout-esque) method of central experience pool for purchasing advancements in progression. So their goal of player progression as one of the elements of the RPG genre that they wanted for the game never wavered but the way they implemented it changed-- for better or worse depending on who you talk to :)

 

Before Alpha 11 there was no RPG elements to speak of other than progressing from primitive tools and weapons to better tools and weapons. Those weapons and tools didn't even have tiers of quality. So for 10 alphas there were no RPG elements to the game to speak of because they had not reached the point at which they felt it was time. In Alpha 11 we got the first push which was that every time we crafted a tool we could craft a better one with a +/- 50 randomizer. For the first time ever in the history of the game "spam crafting" became a thing and it was a huge game changer and the only form of progression in the game. From Alpha 11 until Alpha 16 various forms of progression and experience cocktails were experimented with as well as the role of books and schematics and what advancements could be purchased with points and which would be learned by repeated action. Finally, in A17 the final decision about how players would progress was made and it has been built upon until now.

 

My point in relating this history is that to the casual observer it might appear that RPG elements were not originally conceived to be part of the game but were tacked on later. But this is far from the truth. That this game would be a mix of survival, tower defense, and RPG was planned from the beginning. If past studios have always started with one pure genre and branched out from there then I can definitively state that the approach TFP took was ground breaking because they did not start out at all focused on a single primary genre. But I suspect, that this idea that a studio must start with one primary and all others are secondary to it is a misconception and not true at all. I doubt TFP were the first, although they have been quite successful.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Then maybe the first language problem is the reason we read different things into his posts. While he keeps his own opinion and says so I don't see him being confrontational. "Confrontational" means forcefully attacking differing opinions or other persons, not just saying "its okay but I keep my opinion".

 

As I said above please first conclusively show that his view is definitely wrong (which you can't without being a mind reader) before you demand that he changes his mind. This is not the holy church of 7 Days believers who demand all to believe what we tell them or god will strike them down. Especially on a topic you yourself agree to being unimportant.

 

If the stuff on Facebook has no relevance to what the TC wrote why then cite it? As your motivation? Sorry, that is not an excuse or justification for being impolite.

 

PS: See the difference. I am now arguably a bit confrontational, especially with the sarcasm in paragraph 2.

 

Ok look, you wanna play around with words and split hairs...

 

Guy says the game is based on a certain genre and is being told its not, based on factual info. Guy keeps denying and warns he will maintain his statement even facing evidence that he's wrong. Yes he is. And that's confronting what's been established. One can question non-stop that they think the Earth is flat but when being shown its factually not, its unnecessary to keep stating the opposite and confronting the facts.

 

I never declared or implied there's a 7DTD holy church where we burn heretics at the stake for not believing something, so, please, cool it down. You dont need to create and holy church of Round Earth to state the fact that its round.

 

Lastly, i dont ask to be excused because i dont have much patience for the behavior of TC. I just explained why i have the tone i have, not justifying it to allow myself to talk the way i talk : i'll say what i wanna say, just like he did, or like you do. Can you get this, at least?

 

I dont know if you do this to tilt people for your amusement? I dont see why you pretend to not see how the TC acts or respond when he's clearly wrong about how Rick and Joel establish their own game. Or why you attempt to turn things around so im kinda the bad guy now lol. But whatever, this is still going nowhere, further than necessary. This topic shouldnt have gone beyond the moment the TC has been shut down. Oh no, that's right, he's not really wrong, according to you. Guess this is far from over! But as far as im concerned, it is for me.

 

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1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

Ok look, you wanna play around with words and split hairs...

 

Guy says the game is based on a certain genre and is being told its not, based on factual info. Guy keeps denying and warns he will maintain his statement even facing evidence that he's wrong. Yes he is. And that's confronting what's been established. One can question non-stop that they think the Earth is flat but when being shown its factually not, its unnecessary to keep stating the opposite and confronting the facts.

 

Shown how? He doesn't know Roland (or anyone else here) personally, for all he knows Roland could be inventing facts. Rolands credibility to him is like the next best random guy that would tell him the earth is flat.

 

What would you tell a flat earther? "The earth is round, I tell you". Is that a proof? There are physics experiments that show the earth is not flat (for example the pendelum experiment). After you shown him that, that would be proof.

 

1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

 

I never declared or implied there's a 7DTD holy church where we burn heretics at the stake for not believing something, so, please, cool it down. You dont need to create and holy church of Round Earth to state the fact that its round.

 

I think the comparison is apt. He has to believe what we tell him and shut up, otherwise he is called names for not believing.

 

Without experiments like the pendelum, lots of knowledge of physics, or actual travels I would just believe the earth is round because I was told so. Actually a fraction of earths population just believes the earth is round because everyone else tells them that and occams razor says the other alternative (that everyone around you lies or is hoodwinked as well) is just very improbable

 

1 hour ago, Kyonshi said:

 

Lastly, i dont ask to be excused because i dont have much patience for the behavior of TC. I just explained why i have the tone i have, not justifying it to allow myself to talk the way i talk : i'll say what i wanna say, just like he did, or like you do. Can you get this, at least?

 

I dont know if you do this to tilt people for your amusement? I dont see why you pretend to not see how the TC acts or respond when he's clearly wrong about how Rick and Joel establish their own game. Or why you attempt to turn things around so im kinda the bad guy now lol. But whatever, this is still going nowhere, further than necessary. This topic shouldnt have gone beyond the moment the TC has been shut down. Oh no, that's right, he's not really wrong, according to you. Guess this is far from over! But as far as im concerned, it is for me.

 

 

Not my amusement, more like a reflex to take the side of someone getting bullied. See, you say the "TC was shut down". Why is it necessary to silence someone for an inconsequential opinion? In case he fled the forum what have you accomplished? Just another user who thinks this forum is an unfriendly place.

 

But okay, said my piece as well.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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