NPCs rescue missions

[MIOLOmole]

The preference of being a side mission, is that it does not directly interfere in the excellent result already achieved in the main structure of the game. And in case something goes wrong, it's always a lot easier to discard if it's just a side mission. Open your minds to something that can be implemented quickly. Thx ! Cheers !!!

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

The idea of not adding too much programming and making rescue missions NPCs easier to implement is for TFP to see something acceptable for rapid implementation in 7D2D. If we keep demanding already many details and complexity, they will easier reject it, because this translates into time = money spent. So I still insist that the approach to this idea has to be very basic to begin with. Improvements can be implemented as time goes by and availability time of TFP. In fact, the whole history of the development time of this game proves that. So let's take it easy on the level of demand of this idea. I prefer the basics to begin with. It's easier to accept. Now, a thousand times the idea of NPCs rescue missions, than the idea of the Bandits ! Cheers !!!

Bandits are obligatory- they must added them. Npc are much harded to do good that rover from cod. so drones can "rover from cod" but even easier to implemented because it fly so brick for example will be not problem

[meilodasreh]

I think the idea itself is cool, but - as was already stated before - it's been "proven" by a lot of other games that it can be a real pain in the a cause NPC gets stuck somewhere,

causing the quest to fail without you making a mistake...just annoying waste of time then, and very frustrating.

Problem is: You can't for example just copy the AI of the drone (which also is supposed to follow you)...beacuse when this one gets stuck somewhere, it will (as was said) just teleport back to you when you get too far away.

In that case it's necessary to avoid silly "micro-management" to get your drone free, and - if not happening too often - is a simple workaround, especially in a fully destructible world, where paths are often blocked/destroyed/created new,...

But imagine that in such a rescue mission...you could easily cheese those quests by just shortcutting straight through the next best wall to the destination point, and your NPC keeps teleporting after you.

Nope, wouldn't be fun that way...and otherwise, that guy would just keep being stuck behind walls, edges, stairways, doors, chokepoints, fall through holes,...of my,

I'm getting angry just by thinking about it 😵

So again, cool idea, but the effort to get it straight in a fully destructible world is...just wow.

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I think the idea itself is cool, but - as was already stated before - it's been "proven" by a lot of other games that it can be a real pain in the a cause NPC gets stuck somewhere,

causing the quest to fail without you making a mistake...just annoying waste of time then, and very frustrating.

Problem is: You can't for example just copy the AI of the drone (which also is supposed to follow you)...beacuse when this one gets stuck somewhere, it will (as was said) just teleport back to you when you get too far away.

In that case it's necessary to avoid silly "micro-management" to get your drone free, and - if not happening too often - is a simple workaround, especially in a fully destructible world, where paths are often blocked/destroyed/created new,...

But imagine that in such a rescue mission...you could easily cheese those quests by just shortcutting straight through the next best wall to the destination point, and your NPC keeps teleporting after you.

Nope, wouldn't be fun that way...and otherwise, that guy would just keep being stuck behind walls, edges, stairways, doors, chokepoints, fall through holes,...of my,

I'm getting angry just by thinking about it 😵

So again, cool idea, but the effort to get it straight in a fully destructible world is...just wow.

Where there is a will there is a way.  😁

 

Maybe they can be done similar to challenge notes and the npc path is outside a POI reducing the chance of them getting stuck.  This wouldn't be error proof but have a higher chance of success perhaps...😁

Edited August 16, 2021 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Matt115]

36 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Where there is a will there is a way.  😁

 

Maybe they can be done similar to challenge notes and the npc path is outside a POI reducing the chance of them getting stuck.  This wouldn't be error proof but have a higher chance of success perhaps...😁

well not likely - i think can be will to make for example more 30 variants of zombies but game is developing to long to be considered.  more likly it will happen in 7dtd2

2 hours ago, meilodasreh said:

I think the idea itself is cool, but - as was already stated before - it's been "proven" by a lot of other games that it can be a real pain in the a cause NPC gets stuck somewhere,

causing the quest to fail without you making a mistake...just annoying waste of time then, and very frustrating.

Problem is: You can't for example just copy the AI of the drone (which also is supposed to follow you)...beacuse when this one gets stuck somewhere, it will (as was said) just teleport back to you when you get too far away.

In that case it's necessary to avoid silly "micro-management" to get your drone free, and - if not happening too often - is a simple workaround, especially in a fully destructible world, where paths are often blocked/destroyed/created new,...

But imagine that in such a rescue mission...you could easily cheese those quests by just shortcutting straight through the next best wall to the destination point, and your NPC keeps teleporting after you.

Nope, wouldn't be fun that way...and otherwise, that guy would just keep being stuck behind walls, edges, stairways, doors, chokepoints, fall through holes,...of my,

I'm getting angry just by thinking about it 😵

So again, cool idea, but the effort to get it straight in a fully destructible world is...just wow.

drons i mean - rover from escort missions in cod outbreak but as drone to not make copy

[MIOLOmole]

The idea of escorting the NPCs, is to really do escort ! If an obstacle stops the path of any NPC, of course it is our goal to go back and free it. The tension of coming back to save the stuck is the emotion I'm looking for. If the goal was self-teleporting, it had no interest. As the terrain is destructive, it only helps in freeing the "stuck". Help them go. Free the way. Easy missions don't matter. Being complaining all the time doesn't help the mission. You're the hero! Cheers !!!

[BFT2020]

We want a true rescue mission, not a babysitting mission where my 6 year old is smarter than the NPC (hell in these cases, a 2 year old would be smarter).  If the goal is to simply babysit a meat sack from Point A to Point B, then why not just make a mission that once you accept, you just go to point A and then Point B, then get the reward.  No need to program any NPCs, simple and easy.

[Matt115]

2 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

The idea of escorting the NPCs, is to really do escort ! If an obstacle stops the path of any NPC, of course it is our goal to go back and free it. The tension of coming back to save the stuck is the emotion I'm looking for. If the goal was self-teleporting, it had no interest. As the terrain is destructive, it only helps in freeing the "stuck". Help them go. Free the way. Easy missions don't matter. Being complaining all the time doesn't help the mission. You're the hero! Cheers !!!

yeah tottaly when npc decided he want to go through wall of  skyscrapper. this will be fun? no this remind me cod 5 when one of npc stuck on wall because he lost his patchtracking XD. honestly patchtracking for npc in 7dtd is rly hard. that's why zombie ai had a lot of changes

[MIOLOmole]

7 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

We want a true rescue mission, not a babysitting mission where my 6 year old is smarter than the NPC (hell in these cases, a 2 year old would be smarter).  If the goal is to simply babysit a meat sack from Point A to Point B, then why not just make a mission that once you accept, you just go to point A and then Point B, then get the reward.  No need to program any NPCs, simple and easy.

Suggestion completely off topic ! It's a NPCs rescue mission idea ! Nothing to do NPCs being or not smart. They just magnet follow you. Hero going solo from point A to B is even worst then the " smarter excuse " ! Cheers !!!

7 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

yeah tottaly when npc decided he want to go through wall of  skyscrapper. this will be fun? no this remind me cod 5 when one of npc stuck on wall because he lost his patchtracking XD. honestly patchtracking for npc in 7dtd is rly hard. that's why zombie ai had a lot of changes

When the NPC decides he wants to go through a wall, it means he made a bad choice. It´s your job to help him. Like in the movies. If u succeded, u get rewarded. That´s the main idea. That´s the fun of those rescue missions. No flying drones, no teleporting. Do the job and get rewarded !!! Cheers !!!

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

Suggestion completely off topic ! It's a NPCs rescue mission idea ! Nothing to do NPCs being or not smart. They just magnet follow you. Hero going solo from point A to B is even worst then the " smarter excuse " ! Cheers !!!

When the NPC decides he wants to go through a wall, it means he made a bad choice. It´s your job to help him. Like in the movies. If u succeded, u get rewarded. That´s the main idea. That´s the fun of those rescue missions. No flying drones, no teleporting. Do the job and get rewarded !!! Cheers !!!

i never saw i any movie that  idiot who was going in wall , any in walking dead, this new film with zombies on netflix, walking dead or residnet evil XD so there will be not fun just annoying

Edited August 17, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[MIOLOmole]

14 hours ago, Matt115 said:

i never saw i any movie that  idiot who was going in wall , any in walking dead, this new film with zombies on netflix, walking dead or residnet evil XD so there will be not fun just annoying

U never saw in a movie one or more of the rescues, being stuck under a wall, get injured, or falling in a flawless/weak ground ?? ... U never saw a hero going back to rescue them ?? XD ALL THE TIME !!! Open your mind instead of getting stuck to your opinion !!! and yeah, going back to rescue them is the FUN part !!! Otherwise, don't even bother to make a NPC rescue mission !!! Cheers !!!

[MIOLOmole]

While 7D2D does not incorporate NPCs rescue missions, I returned to play ARK SURVIVAL EVOLVED. As an example that my idea works, in ARK all the tamed dinos, when we give the order to follow us, they magnet follow you and works perfectly. They are often stuck in obstacles on the ground, but that makes us go back and free them. That's why I went back to playing ARK. It works perfectly. I'm a hardcore player for ages. I know what I'm talking about. Cheers!!!

[MIOLOmole]

VERY IMPORTANT : this topic is for NPCs rescue missions ! Other subjects off-topic, please open your own forum topics ! Don't even bother to suggest other themes besides the topic. All contributions to add to the main idea, are well VERY welcome !!! Cheers !!!

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

U never saw in a movie one or more of the rescues, being stuck under a wall, get injured, or falling in a flawless/weak ground ?? ... U never saw a hero going back to rescue them ?? XD ALL THE TIME !!! Open your mind instead of getting stuck to your opinion !!! and yeah, going back to rescue them is the FUN part !!! Otherwise, don't even bother to make a NPC rescue mission !!! Cheers !!!

1. yeah but they stuck because enemy fire etc but i never sawm because "uga buga i wll go into wall uga buga" and he will be runing in wall. so there is something diffrent that fall on wall and trying to "walk on wall'

4 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

While 7D2D does not incorporate NPCs rescue missions, I returned to play ARK SURVIVAL EVOLVED. As an example that my idea works, in ARK all the tamed dinos, when we give the order to follow us, they magnet follow you and works perfectly. They are often stuck in obstacles on the ground, but that makes us go back and free them. That's why I went back to playing ARK. It works perfectly. I'm a hardcore player for ages. I know what I'm talking about. Cheers!!!

So if you want play ark, nobody keep you here XD

3 hours ago, MIOLOmole said:

VERY IMPORTANT : this topic is for NPCs rescue missions ! Other subjects off-topic, please open your own forum topics ! Don't even bother to suggest other themes besides the topic. All contributions to add to the main idea, are well VERY welcome !!! Cheers !!!

well : did you know barnacles from hl2 are npc? and "statues" in oblivion. not only humans are npc. if you put drone truck it will be npc too

[MIOLOmole]

16 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

1. yeah but they stuck because enemy fire etc but i never sawm because "uga buga i wll go into wall uga buga" and he will be runing in wall. so there is something diffrent that fall on wall and trying to "walk on wall'

So if you want play ark, nobody keep you here XD

well : did you know barnacles from hl2 are npc? and "statues" in oblivion. not only humans are npc. if you put drone truck it will be npc too

XD just U as always ... who's keeping me here, and even worst, who I let me saying what to do ?? LOL ... keep to the topic !!! NPCs rescue missions I want only for humans at 7D2D !!! I repeat, don't bother nothing else !!! Cheers !!!

[BFT2020]

I think we can all agree that everyone has a different opinion.

[Matt115]

54 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I think we can all agree that everyone has a different opinion.

yep

[MIOLOmole]

15 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

I think we can all agree that everyone has a different opinion.

No if they are off-topic ! Open other topics for that ! Thx ! Cheers !!!

[MIOLOmole]

Back to the theme ... Another idea that seems interesting to me, would be to use/collect these rescued NPCs as Hired Guns. That is, once "rescued" it would be possible to hire them to fight back zombies alongside us, with a daily cost of money and that could change, given the level of resistance/attack of each different NPC available. As soon as our money runs out to keep them hired, the NPCs would automatically vanish, as if they had defected. By this way we would have a greater need to obtain resources and sell them, in order to guarantee a sufficient amount of money, to sustain our Hired Guns fighting alongside us. This would give 7D2D a new breath and a greater dependency to keep us hooked to the game. These NPCs should also level up, by their killing rate and in result increase their hire price, keep an interesting math rate to the whole idea. Cheers !!!

[khzmusik]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:34 AM, MIOLOmole said:

Back to the theme ... Another idea that seems interesting to me, would be to use/collect these rescued NPCs as Hired Guns. That is, once "rescued" it would be possible to hire them to fight back zombies alongside us, with a daily cost of money and that could change, given the level of resistance/attack of each different NPC available. As soon as our money runs out to keep them hired, the NPCs would automatically vanish, as if they had defected. By this way we would have a greater need to obtain resources and sell them, in order to guarantee a sufficient amount of money, to sustain our Hired Guns fighting alongside us. This would give 7D2D a new breath and a greater dependency to keep us hooked to the game. These NPCs should also level up, by their killing rate and in result increase their hire price, keep an interesting math rate to the whole idea. Cheers !!!

 

Just FYI, Xyth and SphereII created a modlet (which requires custom C# code) that allows human NPCs to be hired. However, once they are hired, they stay hired, unless they are dismissed.

 

And, if you play around with those NPCs, you'll see exactly how the "magnet follow" AI is not simple. Once hired you can get those NPCs to follow you - and even though both Xyth and SphereII are very talented, and are also using much of the AI code from the vanilla game, it's still buggy. They had to implement a "teleport" mechanic because of it.

 

I'm just letting you know this, so that you know that follower AI is not at all easy to implement. I'm sure the Ark developers worked for months or years on that AI and you can see it's still not perfect.

 

That, plus the fact that players famously loathe escort missions, means it is vanishingly unlikely that TFP will ever put them in the game, or even add the code necessary to support them.

 

If you're curious, I did implement some human NPC missions in my own NPC modlets. None of them are escort missions, but you might like them nonetheless. You can see them here:

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by khzmusik
"are" and "stay" mixed up, durr (see edit history)

[MIOLOmole]

10 hours ago, khzmusik said:

 

Just FYI, Xyth and SphereII created a modlet (which requires custom C# code) that allows human NPCs to be hired. However, once they are hired, they stay hired, unless they are dismissed.

 

And, if you play around with those NPCs, you'll see exactly how the "magnet follow" AI is not simple. Once hired you can get those NPCs to follow you - and even though both Xyth and SphereII are very talented, and are also using much of the AI code from the vanilla game, it's still buggy. They had to implement a "teleport" mechanic because of it.

 

I'm just letting you know this, so that you know that follower AI is not at all easy to implement. I'm sure the Ark developers worked for months or years on that AI and you can see it's still not perfect.

 

That, plus the fact that players famously loathe escort missions, means it is vanishingly unlikely that TFP will ever put them in the game, or even add the code necessary to support them.

 

If you're curious, I did implement some human NPC missions in my own NPC modlets. None of them are escort missions, but you might like them nonetheless. You can see them here:

 

I had already given up the purpose of these forums, and then I have this very smooth, very enlightening answer and made me believe in the real goal that I dedicated my precious time, to explain my suggestions / ideas. Thank you very much for this honest answer. Yes, the creators of ARK have achieved this technique that I am looking for so much in the 7D2D. I live in the hope that this will come to be a reality. ( sigh ) ... Cheers !!!

[MIOLOmole]

F R E E G U Y   power to the NPCs ... Cheers !!!

[geengaween]

Why does the NPC have to follow you to a location as an "escort mission"? Why not just clear the area around a sheltering NPC and then they'll run off by themselves and despawn when they're out of your sight range?

[MIOLOmole]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:17 PM, geengaween said:

Why does the NPC have to follow you to a location as an "escort mission"? Why not just clear the area around a sheltering NPC and then they'll run off by themselves and despawn when they're out of your sight range?

BINGO !!! Another great idea ! I would like that too !!! ... My original idea was 2 turn the ALL thing more " IN to the challenge " ... but all the details i ' ve explained before, should be in this LOCAL rescue missions to GRAB players to the sucess of the missions. The all idea is to input REASONS to avoid players leave the game, just because they don't have nothing else to do !!! I love this brainstorming MATHS to grab players to games that I like. Cheers !!!

[xyth]

Following will be vastly improved for A20 NPCs, so many new things will be possible