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don't be the first kid on the block to get Windows 11. wait a year.


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On 6/28/2021 at 10:55 AM, doughphunghus said:

Warning: Linux Evangelizing in 3..2..1..

 

For anyone who is/may/eventually/has to buy a new PC and have Windows on it (like if Windows 11 obsoletes your current system and will not work with it), I would like to suggest that you don’t donate/throw away your old system immediately.  As soon as you’re “done with your old PC” *and it’s trash to you*, try installing Ubuntu (it’s free) on it and give it a chance. I suggest Ubuntu only because it has a “simple/normal” installer and should just work. I’m sure some other Linux users would disagree with me :)

 

yes, you’re going to feel like ubuntu sucks because it doesn’t look and act exactly like Windows, but just try it out. Browse the web, check your email, install whatever and try to do your “normal stuff”. Just test the waters of not using Windows. Likely you’ll find that there is something you just have to have that’s only Windows compatible, and that’s good because then you can decide if that’s reason enough you need Windows in some future PC purchase.

 

If nothing else, it might give you reason to keep your old PC and get more life out of it vs throwing it in the trash. 


if you’re not “a computer person” or don’t have the time or care to mess with it, sure don’t give it a try. It’s not for everyone but it may open your eyes to exactly what you need/use that’s Windows only and it might save you some money in the future should it be useful to you.

 

note: switching away from Windows is not always a walk on the park because “everyone uses Windows”. :) you will no longer be part of the 98+%? of people (who all use Windows) and are likely going to have issues with something (like finding out steam will install, but not all steam games you bought support Linux) hence only attempting to try it out on a junk PC you’re no longer going to use for *anything*.  In my opinion Windows is more “user friendly” and more “user resilient” for certain things (like finding how to fix PC problems on the internet) so it’s a good choice to keep Windows for someone already using Windows who doesn’t want to mess around with or learn about  computers. Linux is for people who are willing to learn something new for (insert reason).

 

 

If you're using Ubuntu, just stick with Windows. If you look at any bloated distro using systemd, you are essentially using Windows. True Linux does not have API's and crap between the userland apps and kernel-space. Systemd is as big as the kernel (bigger?), requires apps be re-written for it, does not allow the kernel to do its thing because apps MUST go through systemd to reach the kernel, and is about as secure as a convertible with the top down parked int he middle of The Bronx in NYC. If you look at what systemd does, it literally fits the definition of malware. No thanks.

 

I have been using Linux since around 1994 or 1995. I build absolutely everything from source, custom-tailored to my system. I use Gentoo (not for newbies) and can do almost anything in Linux. I have experience with Debian, Redhat, Void, Artix, Slackware, SUSE, PCLinuxOS, and some others I forget right now. Of those I used Debian, Redhat, Slackware, and SUSE pre-systemd. I used the others post-systemd, though I did use Gentoo back when it was called Epoch. I may know something about Linux.

 

That said, any user wishing to leave Windows and the things which make Windows bad should try an actual Linux distro. The easiest one (easier than Ubuntu and one which uses the desktop which Microsoft has been trying to clone for decades) is PCLinuxOS. You can even run it from a DVD or USB stick to try it before you wipe your system and install it. No systemd. Graphical package manager. Even has automatic updates now, though they let you choose whether or not to update, it just tells you there are updates. It is also a far easier transition in that it doesn't use the Gnome desktop, which looks like an Apple clone, and instead uses KDE/Plasma, which is what Microsoft has been imitating forever.

 

As for Windows, I have used 3.11, 95, 98SE, XP, and 7. Those are by far the best. 8 and 8.1 look like they need to be on a phone or tablet. 10 is just buggy to this day. Forced updates which bluescreen a PC, no control over hardware driver updates, many, many applications which run solid in 7 like to randomly crash in 10 (Ark, Cyberpunk, etc) even on the same hardware. 10 literally records everything you do and transmits it to Microsoft every so often. This does include keystrokes. In fact, this is straight from Microsoft on their "telemetry" software.

  • Typed text sent every thirty minutes
  • Anything recorded by a microphone
  • Transcripts of what you use Cortana for
  • Index of all known media files on your PC
  • The first 35MB of data after you enable your webcam
  • Other telemetry data not specified above

In addition, Windows 10 logs the following data and you can only access and delete it if you do that stupid Microsoft account, which removes your data from your PC and makes it impossible to get back into should you forget the PIN or PW.

  • Edge browsing history
  • Bing search history
  • Location activity (where you go should your system be mobile)
  • Cortana's notebook
  • Health activity collected by things like Health Vault or Microsoft Band
  • Privacy settings across ALL Microsoft products you use

Do you think 11 will be any better? Gentoo records and sends absolutely nothing. While the bad distros like Ubuntu don't send any telemetry data that I know of, systemd does have plenty of back-doors into it. So while I urge you to avoid distros which want to be The Borg (they use systemd), I do urge you to try it out. Most games DO run on Linux with either actual Linux support or via WINE. I am not using 10 and I will not use 11 either.

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I've been running Windows 10 for 4 years now, haven't had any problems with it. I've had one problem with the distribution that had things out of order, fix that by doing a manual install in the right order. Had one update with a module that crashed but the system came up and ran okay. Didn't worry about it.

 

If you don't know anything about operating systems, and don't want to, you shouldn't be messing with Linux.

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14 hours ago, ElCabong said:

 

If you don't know anything about operating systems, and don't want to, you shouldn't be messing with Linux.

 

Installing modern Ubuntu for example is just as automatic as Windows 10, in essence you can click "continue" for a few times and enter your name and password for the user account. thats it. W10 is even a bit more complicated as you have to add 3 questions that can possibly be found out about you to hack your account 😉

 

Once installed there is a browser, an email program, current drivers and some other stuff already installed in ubuntu that you have to collect and sometimes pay for on the windows and collect from dozens on websites. There is a config menue as detailed and with as much easy and complex settings as in windows. There is an app store where you can simply search for the type of software you want and install it. windows10 is only slowy getting there, at least small widgets are easy to install, everything big (like a good graphics program) needs you to do a lot of stuff (from paying and downloading on websites to answering to answering questions from the OS if xxx is allowed to dabbel with the OS) that may seem trivial to you because you are used to it but isn't to a total novice.

 

Network works out of the box, even WLAN, which was still a bit complicated 5 years ago.

 

There is no need to access the command line in typical day-to-day operation by the way. And difficult problems that need you to use the command line exist on windows10 as well. Especially because most of the time windows has only one cryptic error message for dozens of situations and the typical webpage that you find will list about 6 different methods that you simply should try out blindly in the hope that they fix the problem. In my experience as admin in half those cases those methods do not solve the problem. For me personally win7's updating system was a desaster and annoyed and vexed me on multiple machines, and it isn't a surprise that a common method was to reinstall w7 on a regular basis, which isn't true for win10 anymore

 

Most people are already used to windows and know at least a little of how to do things on it. But for someone without this "headstart", someone totally new to computers I don't see a difference between using Ubuntu and Win10.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Ubuntu is not at all close to Windows 10 in terms of general user friendliness and usability. A lot of distros keep thinking that if they mimic the UI of Windows/Mac then it becomes easier to use but that's never been the issue with Linux getting popular.

Actually using it is a completely different beast than Windows. If you have a problem on Linux as a newbie you are essentially alone, the amount of available support is dwarfed by what you would get looking up any assistance for Windows. Even as someone in IT that can dig through the internals of W10 I still found myself having to post support questions on the Ubuntu forums and subreddits (both posts still going unanwsered several months later)

The amount of oddities and lack of functionality compared to Windows becomes another giant issue. Even if Linux has a driver for my devices it's almost always going to have less functionality and features than it would have had on Windows. Even with all the new video driver support the control panels for them are seriously lacking and the amount of graphical glitches and bugs you can still experience in Linux ported games or with Proton is still much higher than on Windows.

 

The insanely wide range of distros with a small community across dozens of different forums online stretches everything thin. If I google a simple problem of Steam downloading games at 30kb/s despite having gigabit internet the amount of possible causes is insane.

It could be the propertiary driver, it could be the open source driver, it could be the other open source driver branch, it could be this random configuration file, oh wait that was changed with this new release and fix no longer applies, it could be Steam wasn't made fully compatibile with this specific version, oh it could be Linux is using a different network protocol blah blah blah.

Maybe Linux is a great time if you already have a Linux mindset but it's a terrible time for anyone trying to transition to it and it becomes loony seeing only Linux users try to tell non linux users that it's just as friendly to use as Windows when that couldn't be any further from the truth. Every minute I dedicate to troubleshooting various issues and trying to find out how to set up something how I want it makes it harder to ignore how much easier and faster I could do it on Windows 10. I started the install at 6pm and it's 9pm and I still can't get it to download games or connect to a windows file server with reasonable speeds or play this format or let me print my documents correctly etc.

Or I could have installed and configured Windows 10 in an hour and been playing games by now.

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On 6/28/2021 at 1:46 PM, SylenThunder said:

Most of the issues you might run to are merely a quick Google search away. If you can read and follow basic instructions, it doesn't require an engineering degree to run. 

 

Des that mean I am overqualified to run it?  😉

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3 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

Ubuntu is not at all close to Windows 10 in terms of general user friendliness and usability. A lot of distros keep thinking that if they mimic the UI of Windows/Mac then it becomes easier to use but that's never been the issue with Linux getting popular.

Actually using it is a completely different beast than Windows. If you have a problem on Linux as a newbie you are essentially alone, the amount of available support is dwarfed by what you would get looking up any assistance for Windows. Even as someone in IT that can dig through the internals of W10 I still found myself having to post support questions on the Ubuntu forums and subreddits (both posts still going unanwsered several months later)

The amount of oddities and lack of functionality compared to Windows becomes another giant issue. Even if Linux has a driver for my devices it's almost always going to have less functionality and features than it would have had on Windows. Even with all the new video driver support the control panels for them are seriously lacking and the amount of graphical glitches and bugs you can still experience in Linux ported games or with Proton is still much higher than on Windows.

 

The insanely wide range of distros with a small community across dozens of different forums online stretches everything thin. If I google a simple problem of Steam downloading games at 30kb/s despite having gigabit internet the amount of possible causes is insane.

It could be the propertiary driver, it could be the open source driver, it could be the other open source driver branch, it could be this random configuration file, oh wait that was changed with this new release and fix no longer applies, it could be Steam wasn't made fully compatibile with this specific version, oh it could be Linux is using a different network protocol blah blah blah.

Maybe Linux is a great time if you already have a Linux mindset but it's a terrible time for anyone trying to transition to it and it becomes loony seeing only Linux users try to tell non linux users that it's just as friendly to use as Windows when that couldn't be any further from the truth. Every minute I dedicate to troubleshooting various issues and trying to find out how to set up something how I want it makes it harder to ignore how much easier and faster I could do it on Windows 10. I started the install at 6pm and it's 9pm and I still can't get it to download games or connect to a windows file server with reasonable speeds or play this format or let me print my documents correctly etc.

Or I could have installed and configured Windows 10 in an hour and been playing games by now.

Ubuntu support is also generally bad and generic, requiring users to do things they don't need to do to fix the issue. Ubuntu is the flank of the Linux world in many ways. Gentoo has excellent support, but it ain't for newbs of any kind. Arch has great support too, but again, not for newbs. PCLinuxOS has good support on their forum and the OS generally works anyway. The main reasons, beyond systemd, that I recommend it.

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9 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Installing modern Ubuntu for example is just as automatic as Windows 10, in essence you can click "continue" for a few times and enter your name and password for the user account. thats it. W10 is even a bit more complicated as you have to add 3 questions that can possibly be found out about you to hack your account 😉

 

Once installed there is a browser, an email program, current drivers and some other stuff already installed in ubuntu that you have to collect and sometimes pay for on the windows and collect from dozens on websites. There is a config menue as detailed and with as much easy and complex settings as in windows. There is an app store where you can simply search for the type of software you want and install it. windows10 is only slowy getting there, at least small widgets are easy to install, everything big (like a good graphics program) needs you to do a lot of stuff (from paying and downloading on websites to answering to answering questions from the OS if xxx is allowed to dabbel with the OS) that may seem trivial to you because you are used to it but isn't to a total novice.

 

Network works out of the box, even WLAN, which was still a bit complicated 5 years ago.

 

There is no need to access the command line in typical day-to-day operation by the way. And difficult problems that need you to use the command line exist on windows10 as well. Especially because most of the time windows has only one cryptic error message for dozens of situations and the typical webpage that you find will list about 6 different methods that you simply should try out blindly in the hope that they fix the problem. In my experience as admin in half those cases those methods do not solve the problem. For me personally win7's updating system was a desaster and annoyed and vexed me on multiple machines, and it isn't a surprise that a common method was to reinstall w7 on a regular basis, which isn't true for win10 anymore

 

Most people are already used to windows and know at least a little of how to do things on it. But for someone without this "headstart", someone totally new to computers I don't see a difference between using Ubuntu and Win10.

 

Installing is easy. What do you do when you install a program that walks all over another program you want to run and it quits working? It's not that hard to deal with but you've got to understand how programs and operating systems and scripts work.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

Installing is easy. What do you do when you install a program that walks all over another program you want to run and it quits working? It's not that hard to deal with but you've got to understand how programs and operating systems and scripts work.

 

What do you do when windows doesn't update anymore? What do you do when an install fails completely and the OS tells you just that there was error #172583 (if you are lucky. I had problems where I didn't even get an error number).

Hey, if you never had a problem with windows, good for you. It doesn't happen to everyone and then it gets as complicated as with linux.

 

I never had the problem you are talking about with Linux, by the way. Which two programs were walking over each other ?

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

What do you do when windows doesn't update anymore? What do you do when an install fails completely and the OS tells you just that there was error #172583 (if you are lucky. I had problems where I didn't even get an error number).

Hey, if you never had a problem with windows, good for you. It doesn't happen to everyone and then it gets as complicated as with linux.

 

I never had the problem you are talking about with Linux, by the way. Which two programs were walking over each other ?

 

 

These conversations tend to end up in flame wars which I'm not going to let happen so this is the last time I'm going to comment on this.

 

I've managed Linux systems for 20 years. It's only a matter of time until you install something and things are going to quit working on you. Then you need to know how scripts work and how to use an editor and a bunch of other things that normal people who don't know anything about operating systems or programming or script writing don't know just to understand what the hell is going on much less how to fix it.

 

This is just fine if that's what you want to do. But don't switch to unix thinking it's better than windows and you're going to have a better experience using it.

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28 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

These conversations tend to end up in flame wars which I'm not going to let happen so this is the last time I'm going to comment on this.

 

I've managed Linux systems for 20 years. It's only a matter of time until you install something and things are going to quit working on you. Then you need to know how scripts work and how to use an editor and a bunch of other things that normal people who don't know anything about operating systems or programming or script writing don't know just to understand what the hell is going on much less how to fix it.

 

This is just fine if that's what you want to do. But don't switch to unix thinking it's better than windows and you're going to have a better experience using it.

Ditto, I started managing them in 2001, specifically shell-only servers back then. Normally it isn't too bad to figure out something, but when you start adding layers of complexity where this depends on that and that depends on the other, it gets annoying fast. Another reason to avoid systemd. I have done simple updates, rebooted, and something critical is down. It's not that the software is bad, but now I need to do configuration changes or something because that was changed for security/speed/stability/whatever and my current config no longer works. It could be worse. Linux sometimes breaks things just like Windows, only Windows 10 tends to break things often.

 

The most recent debacle in Linux was the Intel video driver not working right after a specific kernel update. I believe after 5.4 something happened that broke many Intel HD Graphics setups. Fixed now but it was broken for a while.

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The amount of users on Windows 10 vs Linux is insanely vast and saying Windows 10 breaks sometimes too doesn't really mean anything. Windows is stable for the majority of its users which is substantial compared to even the total amount of Linux users. Nevermind the ones that aren't having smooth rides. I think linux users forget just how many little nuances and things they do day to day that aren't as straight forward as they would be on Windows.

And if a Windows update breaks then so what, Windows runs a startup repair to fix it or rolls itself back without needing the user input. If it wasn't so insanely user friendly then it wouldn't have had such massively wide adoption and trying to act like Linux can even stand up to that is insane to me.

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10 hours ago, ElCabong said:

These conversations tend to end up in flame wars which I'm not going to let happen so this is the last time I'm going to comment on this.

 

I've managed Linux systems for 20 years. It's only a matter of time until you install something and things are going to quit working on you. Then you need to know how scripts work and how to use an editor and a bunch of other things that normal people who don't know anything about operating systems or programming or script writing don't know just to understand what the hell is going on much less how to fix it.

 

This is just fine if that's what you want to do. But don't switch to unix thinking it's better than windows and you're going to have a better experience using it.

Sure, if you have immature people in the conversation it tends to go into a flame war. Do you see anyone here get enraged and starting to get personal? But since this discussion is rather fruitless and endless I tend to agree to drop it.

 

But let me just say you added "it's only a matter of time until something breaks...". But you don't say how that is different to windows. I have seen windows break as well. I hear about windows problems nearly daily. If there is still a vast difference we would need statistics to find them. The gap was noticably big 10 or 20 years ago.

 

Also you misinterpret what I said. Switching will always mean you go from a system you know already to a foreign system. I never said that that would create a better experience. I also don't say that linux is better. I just said that someone who knew nothing about both systems would have a similar experience. The huge advantage of windows is that people learn using it in young years already and therefore windows almost always gets a headstart. This is why Microsoft as well as Appple do their best to get into schools.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

The amount of users on Windows 10 vs Linux is insanely vast and saying Windows 10 breaks sometimes too doesn't really mean anything. Windows is stable for the majority of its users which is substantial compared to even the total amount of Linux users. Nevermind the ones that aren't having smooth rides. I think linux users forget just how many little nuances and things they do day to day that aren't as straight forward as they would be on Windows.

And if a Windows update breaks then so what, Windows runs a startup repair to fix it or rolls itself back without needing the user input. If it wasn't so insanely user friendly then it wouldn't have had such massively wide adoption and trying to act like Linux can even stand up to that is insane to me.

 

Good arguments. Though linux currently is stable as well for its users. We have to look at the percentage of users with problems and I don't have any hard numbers for you, but neither do you. If you don't go under the hood with a typical ubuntu (i.e. use admin powers to change its inner workings left and right) and just use the GUI for stuff normal users do on their PC, use the office suite, surf on the net, install programs from the ubuntu software store, then the chance that anything breaks is almost nil.

 

That things are straightforward on windows IS a result of people being used to windows. In my job I have to help secretaries with their problems and the simple fact is: If anything happens that they haven't seen yet they need someone to tell them what to do. If it happens again, then they know how to deal with it if it isn't complicated. This is almost exclusively about being used to a system.

 

Roll back is a very good point, yes, that feature is worth a lot. Though I doubt the users I was talking about would know how to use it.  But I agree it is a point in favor of windows. Only, it helps in some cases where you break something. But for example in cases where you install a program and it doesn't work and you want that program to work, uninstalling it again won't help you, you would still need outside help as a novice user

 

The wide adoption of windows is the same case as the wide adoption of facebook or whatsup. 90% of it is that network effects help it to stay on top. When windows was created it was an immedaite success because it was the only one easy to use and cheap (macos came later and was maybe easier to use but too expensive for the masses). After Microsoft practically had the monopoly it just made sure that every PC came pre-installed with windows and every new PC buyer would always start with windows. Windows market share today is not because of easy of use (macos would hands-down win that competition), it is because it is still on every PC you buy and 95% of people you know and can ask use it as well and can help you get the necessary knowledge. It is just network effects.

 

 

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Quote

If you don't go under the hood with a typical ubuntu (i.e. use admin powers to change its inner workings left and right) and just use the GUI for stuff normal users do on their PC, use the office suite, surf on the net, install programs from the ubuntu software store, then the chance that anything breaks is almost nil.


And that is part of the problem, in order to do anything beyond those simple things you no longer are just interacting with the UI. My network issue with Steam for example had Google telling me to adjust a wide number of things involving changing the drivers (no small feat on linux compared to device manager) adjusting configuration settings with the kernal and Steam among other random nonsense that never fixed it. My printer installed but then printed garbled text out which means the driver is bad, guess I'm just screwed because no other driver existed for it. I used to have a laptop for school that had a Qualcomm wireless driver, come to find out that you basically have almost 0 driver support with Qualcomm devices on Linux. These are problems that just don't happen on Windows to this degree.

 

Quote

Windows market share today is not because of easy of use (macos would hands-down win that competition), it is because it is still on every PC you buy and 95% of people you know and can ask use it as well and can help you get the necessary knowledge


Like it or not it doesn't matter why Windows has the massive amount of users at this point. Everyone is familiar with using a Windows machine and if Linux wants a piece of that pie then it needs to do a better job accomodating those trying to swap over. It currently doesn't. Some distro needs to take over and be the face of Linux Home user but I stg for the past 8 years I keep being told a wide range of random Distros that are supposed to be the perfect Windows killer and can't even imagine how confusing that would be for any non tech savvy person.

Even just the act of installing Linux on a system to replace Windows is more complicated than your typical home user at this point.
 

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14 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:


And that is part of the problem, in order to do anything beyond those simple things you no longer are just interacting with the UI. My network issue with Steam for example had Google telling me to adjust a wide number of things involving changing the drivers (no small feat on linux compared to device manager) adjusting configuration settings with the kernal and Steam among other random nonsense that never fixed it. My printer installed but then printed garbled text out which means the driver is bad, guess I'm just screwed because no other driver existed for it. I used to have a laptop for school that had a Qualcomm wireless driver, come to find out that you basically have almost 0 driver support with Qualcomm devices on Linux. These are problems that just don't happen on Windows to this degree.

 

I'm sure I can list dozens of registry settings recipes, command line recipes and serious going through a jungle of menues recipe on windows as well. This happens when the simple solutions you can directly access in the UI fail, on any OS. An advantage on windows though is for common problems Microsoft develops and publishes fix-programs that do some of those leg-work recipes and in half the cases those even work. 

 

Linux has holes in his hardware-support and a novice user should probably buy from a vendor who sells hardware and OS bundled (just like it is done with windows). But agreed, in this category linux can not reach the level of support that windows gets from hardware developers, especially peripheral devices, partly that is again a result of windows market share.

 

Your wlan issue with that laptop you had seems an older story though, I already said wlan wasn't on the level a few years ago that it has today. In the last two years I bought a lot of different laptops for my workplace and many got a linux install and not one had a WLAN problem. Not one.

 

14 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

 


Like it or not it doesn't matter why Windows has the massive amount of users at this point. Everyone is familiar with using a Windows machine and if Linux wants a piece of that pie then it needs to do a better job accomodating those trying to swap over. It currently doesn't. Some distro needs to take over and be the face of Linux Home user but I stg for the past 8 years I keep being told a wide range of random Distros that are supposed to be the perfect Windows killer and can't even imagine how confusing that would be for any non tech savvy person.

 

You missed the topic again. I agree completely with your second (highlighted) sentence. Again, that was not my argument and I frankly see no way that linux will ever be able to swap over a significant amount of people, not without very potent help by Microsoft itself. MS sits in a place it can not lose by outside actions, not in the foreseeable future. I'm not here to tell you Ubuntu or some other distro is a windows killer, it is not.

 

14 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:


Even just the act of installing Linux on a system to replace Windows is more complicated than your typical home user at this point.
 

Installing linx and windows on a blank PC is very much the same level of difficult. THAT is my assertion, not that replacing a windows someone else already planted on the pc with linux is easier than doing nothing. That is trivially false.

 

 

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On 6/26/2021 at 12:25 PM, Boidster said:

 

A good read on the general Win 11 topic, with some additional info on TPM. The money quote:

 

 

Coming back around to this....

 

I checked my UEFI/BIOS. Under Advanced > AMD fTPM Config I have two options. "Discrete TPM" and "Firmware TPM". I had previously assumed that the hardware module was required for "Firmware TPM", but apparently it isn't. So not sure what benefit the module would give me, or where to configure it. I can't find anything except for information on where it gets plugged in at.

 

So now by changing that setting to Firmware, I qualify for Win 10.  In a month or so I might give it a try just so I can test the game client performance on it, and look for any bugs with a20 in relation to the OS.

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Well, i never would. I usually use my OS until the very last day of support. I really can´t stand the whole process of getting everything downloaded and installed again. I generally tend to not use any tech/software on day one and rather wait until the infancy problems are solved.

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2 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Well, i never would. I usually use my OS until the very last day of support. I really can´t stand the whole process of getting everything downloaded and installed again. I generally tend to not use any tech/software on day one and rather wait until the infancy problems are solved.

I usually wait until they're getting close to Beta for testing on my main systems. I'd be a Day 1 adapter of the dev build if I could run it on my spare PC. Their exclusion of the 7th-gen Intel's knocked that off the list of things to do.

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Replacing Windows with Linux on a DESKTOP (emphasis), is generally a trivial thing.

 

Did that for my father over 15 years ago. (he hated waiting for the AV software to load and the warnings etc).

Switched him to Ubuntu,   Firefox,  Evolution, OpenOffice (at the time) and all worked fine.

 

When my mother came to live with me, I switched her over immediately, as she would click on darn near anything.

Same deal. Firefox and Chrome (reasons for both),  LibreOffice etc.  All well.

Was going to change her from the Unity interface to Cinnamon, as closer to a windows feel.

Her response:  " I don't remember what that was like. I don't want to learn anything new".  (she's 80 now)

 

Wifi cards are an issue still. Had to move her computer,  (after truck hit the house, see the clip).

Got a wifi adapter and 100' ethernet cable as backup.

No go on the card.

Cable made it with about 2' to spare.

 

So the AVERAGE user, the OS really doesn't make much difference.  Browser, email, print and that's pretty much all many care about.

 

Besides, how many NON-Techie types can troubleshoot or fix a windows problem?  yeah, not many.

So if that can't fix linux, the call for help, just like in windows.

 

Oh, it's an absolute bonus treat for the scam calls and fake popups too.

 

Mother: "Windows Security Center has found ...."  "what should I do?"

Me:  Mom, are you running windows?

Mother: Well, no.

Me:  just click the red X in the corner. It's a scam, and it can't hurt you because I put you on linux.

Mom: oh, ok.

 

The scam calls, are fun. I string them along looking for what they want.

Sooooo much fun when I say  "oh, did I forget to mention I'm on Linux and not Windows?"

 

hee-hee.  (serves those bastids right)    :D

 

(and no, linux is not perfect, nor is it a panacea for anything)

 

Oh, I've also been using it since pre 0.99 . Still have the stack of floppies for that. I'm a bit of a packrat for software stuff)

 

:D

 

 

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I have to say that installing Win11 was..... interesting.  After it finished the file copy I got a black screen with a mouse cursor, and it disabled all the USB ports so I had zero input devices.

Forced a reboot, and it kept saying that it was Windows 10 in the start up options. Had to fix that manually. >.>

 

Now for the fun of playing with drivers, and then tinkering with games.  As if I had any free time to do this in to begin with....

 

Posted from a Windows 10 PC.

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3 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Now for the fun of playing with drivers, and then tinkering with games.  As if I had any free time to do this in to begin with....

and i noticed your arm was being bent forcing you into testing that too. :)

 

but seriously.. the best experience in anything... is to just installing it vanilla and learn to use it and not to tweak it so it breaks and gives you a bad experience.

 

like so many reports/complaints about 7dtd for example (many other games as well), those with the biggest or more complaints are those who tweak them and or their computers and then swear its the games fault. :)

 

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On 6/24/2021 at 8:27 PM, Maharin said:

I'm a Linux guy, so I won't be getting it ever.  :p

I abandoned Winbloze years ago, before Windows 8 came out. I'm a software engineer, yet there is *nothing I need windows for. Linux does it all. Gaming, office work, software dev, website, database, you name it. When I switched to Linux, 95% of my frustration with my operating system went away. Windows really is that bad.

Several years ago I switched my daughter from Windows to Linux. And she got mad at me! Why? "Dad, this is amazing, my computer doesn't crash anymore and is so much faster. I'm mad at you for not doing this sooner".

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9 hours ago, zootal said:

I abandoned Winbloze years ago, before Windows 8 came out. I'm a software engineer, yet there is *nothing I need windows for. Linux does it all. Gaming, office work, software dev, website, database, you name it. When I switched to Linux, 95% of my frustration with my operating system went away. Windows really is that bad.

Several years ago I switched my daughter from Windows to Linux. And she got mad at me! Why? "Dad, this is amazing, my computer doesn't crash anymore and is so much faster. I'm mad at you for not doing this sooner".

 

At my old employer I ran Windows in a VM to do things like Outlook and Office, because... rules, I guess (for about the last 8 years or so I worked there).  I did everything else in Linux and have been for probably 12 years now at home, probably more.  I remember going from Windows 7 to Linux but not exactly when in the lifecycle of 7, but it was well before 8 came out for sure.  The first time I dabbled with it was probably 1993 or 1994 and that was without a GUI on a 486 if I remember right.

 

I was a KDE guy for a long time because of the level of customization but I eventually got sick of the instability.  I've been using Cinnamon on Linux Mint for almost as long as it's been around and have no regrets.  I used Ubuntu for a while and Debian for a few years but finally had to leave it because I needed newer versions of things than Debian could provide all too frequently.  I like Debian though and it is still probably one of my favorite distributions.

 

My kids are all adults at this point and none of them are inclined to do much beyond gaming on their PCs so they would rather stick with Windows.

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