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don't be the first kid on the block to get Windows 11. wait a year.


ElCabong

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1 hour ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Now it's being reported that after 2023, Win 11 will REQUIRE a front facing camera, except on desktop PCs.

 

WTF?

 

What possible technical reason would require that?

 

I'm gonna have to make a thicker tinfoil hat it seems.

 

Not technical, but to support virtual meetings.  If you dwell deeper into the webcam requirements, you can see it is all about higer quality video cameras for the new normal.

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3 hours ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Now it's being reported that after 2023, Win 11 will REQUIRE a front facing camera, except on desktop PCs.

 

WTF?

 

What possible technical reason would require that?

 

I'm gonna have to make a thicker tinfoil hat it seems.

 

 

You are the product and someone, somewhere wants to see what they're buying.

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9 hours ago, warmer said:

Why are we focused on something that isn't even a problem yet?

The very act of worrying about it, creates a problem when there isn't one already there.

Chew on that.

 

Because I *know* the kind of crap they do. Going back 30 years.

 

(used to work for a software company, and I know first hand what kind of shenanigans they can, and will pull)

 

As for the the cam for meetings,  ok, then have it a requirement for THAT program, not the bloody OS.

 

oh well, I'll be retiring when win10 is EOL, so we'll see just what is going on then. Until then, nope, aint gonna touch 11.

Of course, I said I wouldn't touch 10, but did only to see if that would fix the FO76 graphic stuttering that got introduced in one patch on Win7.

Did the upgrade (free couple weeks ago, and yes, you can still do it), and lo and behold, the stuttering went away.  GG Bethesda.

 

pox upon them all.   /shrug

 

😛

 

 

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On 6/26/2021 at 9:26 PM, 7daystodierocks said:

actually i bet $100 microsoft knows exactly what the problems will be i mean i hope so they designed it

yep i bet $100 itll be bad

That's an interesting point. I'm sure the grunts that built the system know what the problems are and they've told management too. Upper management in big corporations make decisions not based in logic and reason, they make decisions base on Ego. When they're told that this and that is a problem, they choose  not to believe the engineers because it's not what they want to hear. Even when they've been told that something's wrong, months or even longer ago, they will be totally surprised and astonished when it finally surfaces in customer complaints. In their minds when they decide something does not exist, it doesn't.

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Warning: Linux Evangelizing in 3..2..1..

 

For anyone who is/may/eventually/has to buy a new PC and have Windows on it (like if Windows 11 obsoletes your current system and will not work with it), I would like to suggest that you don’t donate/throw away your old system immediately.  As soon as you’re “done with your old PC” *and it’s trash to you*, try installing Ubuntu (it’s free) on it and give it a chance. I suggest Ubuntu only because it has a “simple/normal” installer and should just work. I’m sure some other Linux users would disagree with me :)

 

yes, you’re going to feel like ubuntu sucks because it doesn’t look and act exactly like Windows, but just try it out. Browse the web, check your email, install whatever and try to do your “normal stuff”. Just test the waters of not using Windows. Likely you’ll find that there is something you just have to have that’s only Windows compatible, and that’s good because then you can decide if that’s reason enough you need Windows in some future PC purchase.

 

If nothing else, it might give you reason to keep your old PC and get more life out of it vs throwing it in the trash. 


if you’re not “a computer person” or don’t have the time or care to mess with it, sure don’t give it a try. It’s not for everyone but it may open your eyes to exactly what you need/use that’s Windows only and it might save you some money in the future should it be useful to you.

 

note: switching away from Windows is not always a walk on the park because “everyone uses Windows”. :) you will no longer be part of the 98+%? of people (who all use Windows) and are likely going to have issues with something (like finding out steam will install, but not all steam games you bought support Linux) hence only attempting to try it out on a junk PC you’re no longer going to use for *anything*.  In my opinion Windows is more “user friendly” and more “user resilient” for certain things (like finding how to fix PC problems on the internet) so it’s a good choice to keep Windows for someone already using Windows who doesn’t want to mess around with or learn about  computers. Linux is for people who are willing to learn something new for (insert reason).

 

 

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On 6/25/2021 at 9:34 AM, Lemmers said:

The only reason I moved to W10 was for DX12 support, and the fact it was a free upgrade for W7. I have no desire to move to W11 and deal with more design changes just for the sake of having design changes. 


it is said to be a lighter install, smaller patches, faster booting and more current day virus resistant as in better defense vs ransomware.

I would keep an eye on it.

Also it will be free for Windows 10 users as of now that appears to be forever.

But yeah from what I have seen it looks very Apple OS X cartoony.

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42 minutes ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

it is said to be a lighter install, smaller patches, faster booting and more current day virus resistant as in better defense vs ransomware.

I would keep an eye on it.

Also it will be free for Windows 10 users as of now that appears to be forever.

But yeah from what I have seen it looks very Apple OS X cartoony.

Do people get viruses anymore? I can buy hardware to get TPM now on W10 if that's my concern. Lighter install, faster boot times... pretty inconsequential, assuming it's even true. The install might be low but then install a ton of bloatware.

What I really care about is the user interface, and if I need to dig through three different control panels to finally find the one they designed for XP that actually has the controls I need to change. All the small tweaks to make the UI look "better" but perform objectively worse for power users.

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On 6/27/2021 at 9:28 AM, canadianbluebeer said:

Now it's being reported that after 2023, Win 11 will REQUIRE a front facing camera, except on desktop PCs.

 

Hey man, don't post "it's being reported" without providing a link to a reputable source. That's some Facebook FUD behavior, "many people are saying" etc. Your wording neatly flips the reporting around to make it as FUDdy as possible. Un-flipped:

 

Starting in 2023 Windows 11 will require laptops to have a front-facing camera

 

It's difficult to find a laptop today without a camera in it, never mind after 2023. If privacy is a concern (you'll get no argument from me about that), they're easy to cover up. Change is inevitable, and there will be a few mountains to climb along the way. No need to build up the molehills.

13 minutes ago, Lemmers said:

Do people get viruses anymore?

 

image.png.b7f8ecafc016997244a51d3e9015343f.png

image.jpeg.9133eb5e7b5f98779074e824fa14742f.jpeg

image.jpeg.7d2fe11ac2ca357c4a7883d5abbcd715.jpeg

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6 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Starting in 2023 Windows 11 will require laptops to have a front-facing camera

And it seems none of that actually answers the "how" of it, while the last sentence implies something:

"Of course, this requirement only applies to new laptops being sold by OEMs in 2023, not your existing one."

 

With a slightly positive reading, all that means is that OEMs can't pre-install a Windows on a laptop they're advertising to you. Nothing is implying Win11 won't install/work on a camera-free laptop, just that OEMs can't sell such.

 

I don't trust MS, not a bit, but I'm equally annoyed about reading too much into every snippet on the web. It should be obvious to anyone who's opened a web browser that EVERY title is pure clickbait and the articles themselves are rarely any better.

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2 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

Warning: Linux Evangelizing in 3..2..1..

 

For anyone who is/may/eventually/has to buy a new PC and have Windows on it (like if Windows 11 obsoletes your current system and will not work with it), I would like to suggest that you don’t donate/throw away your old system immediately.  As soon as you’re “done with your old PC” *and it’s trash to you*, try installing Ubuntu (it’s free) on it and give it a chance. I suggest Ubuntu only because it has a “simple/normal” installer and should just work. I’m sure some other Linux users would disagree with me :)

 

yes, you’re going to feel like ubuntu sucks because it doesn’t look and act exactly like Windows, but just try it out. Browse the web, check your email, install whatever and try to do your “normal stuff”. Just test the waters of not using Windows. Likely you’ll find that there is something you just have to have that’s only Windows compatible, and that’s good because then you can decide if that’s reason enough you need Windows in some future PC purchase.

 

If nothing else, it might give you reason to keep your old PC and get more life out of it vs throwing it in the trash. 


if you’re not “a computer person” or don’t have the time or care to mess with it, sure don’t give it a try. It’s not for everyone but it may open your eyes to exactly what you need/use that’s Windows only and it might save you some money in the future should it be useful to you.

 

note: switching away from Windows is not always a walk on the park because “everyone uses Windows”. :) you will no longer be part of the 98+%? of people (who all use Windows) and are likely going to have issues with something (like finding out steam will install, but not all steam games you bought support Linux) hence only attempting to try it out on a junk PC you’re no longer going to use for *anything*.  In my opinion Windows is more “user friendly” and more “user resilient” for certain things (like finding how to fix PC problems on the internet) so it’s a good choice to keep Windows for someone already using Windows who doesn’t want to mess around with or learn about  computers. Linux is for people who are willing to learn something new for (insert reason).

 

 

I found this recently, and it was interesting to read... (though the lack of proper punctuation kills me)

Linux.jpg.6ee7d8ff49c49023384f33ead0870b47.jpg

 

And thinking on it, this part in particular.

"Can you read at a high school level? You will have no issue working and learning Linux."

 

Most of the issues you might run to are merely a quick Google search away. If you can read and follow basic instructions, it doesn't require an engineering degree to run. 

 

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2 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

Warning: Linux Evangelizing in 3..2..1..

 

For anyone who is/may/eventually/has to buy a new PC and have Windows on it (like if Windows 11 obsoletes your current system and will not work with it), I would like to suggest that you don’t donate/throw away your old system immediately.  As soon as you’re “done with your old PC” *and it’s trash to you*, try installing Ubuntu (it’s free) on it and give it a chance. I suggest Ubuntu only because it has a “simple/normal” installer and should just work. I’m sure some other Linux users would disagree with me :)

 

yes, you’re going to feel like ubuntu sucks because it doesn’t look and act exactly like Windows, but just try it out. Browse the web, check your email, install whatever and try to do your “normal stuff”. Just test the waters of not using Windows. Likely you’ll find that there is something you just have to have that’s only Windows compatible, and that’s good because then you can decide if that’s reason enough you need Windows in some future PC purchase.

 

If nothing else, it might give you reason to keep your old PC and get more life out of it vs throwing it in the trash. 


if you’re not “a computer person” or don’t have the time or care to mess with it, sure don’t give it a try. It’s not for everyone but it may open your eyes to exactly what you need/use that’s Windows only and it might save you some money in the future should it be useful to you.

 

note: switching away from Windows is not always a walk on the park because “everyone uses Windows”. :) you will no longer be part of the 98+%? of people (who all use Windows) and are likely going to have issues with something (like finding out steam will install, but not all steam games you bought support Linux) hence only attempting to try it out on a junk PC you’re no longer going to use for *anything*.  In my opinion Windows is more “user friendly” and more “user resilient” for certain things (like finding how to fix PC problems on the internet) so it’s a good choice to keep Windows for someone already using Windows who doesn’t want to mess around with or learn about  computers. Linux is for people who are willing to learn something new for (insert reason).

 

 

 

Nothing against Ubuntu, but I have long preferred Linux Mint with the Cinnamon desktop.  It's clean and fast, based on Ubuntu, and runs everything I've thrown at it.

 

For those not doing much in the way of gaming but want a VERY stable OS, Debian is a good choice.  Ubuntu and many other Linux based operating systems use Debian as a starting point.

 

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Per messing around with my Pi the Linux browser (whatever it is called) works fine for day to day stuff and it is sort of fast.

Now comes the inconvenient truth.

this is a site about a game, fortunately 7d2d works with Linux. Many, many, many, many other popular games do not.

If you want to game Windows is pretty much required unless you are doing something weird like nvidia shield or google whatever streaming game service or you are only playing very specific games that work with Linux and have little desire for something different.

More inconvenient truth, other streaming sites may not like Linux as much. Stuff like pause & forward button can be missing.

Perfectly fine to say I don’t need that to the above items. I do need that stuff, moving to Linux would be more effort than benefit. I have zero desire to keep a web browsing, light word processing machine next to a windows machine for everything else. To me that is not a benefit, that is a pain in the ass.

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1 minute ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Per messing around with my Pi the Linux browser (whatever it is called) works fine for day to day stuff and it is sort of fast.

Now comes the inconvenient truth.

this is a site about a game, fortunately 7d2d works with Linux. Many, many, many, many other popular games do not.

If you want to game Windows is pretty much required unless you are doing something weird like nvidia shield or google whatever streaming game service or you are only playing very specific games that work with Linux and have little desire for something different.

More inconvenient truth, other streaming sites may not like Linux as much. Stuff like pause & forward button can be missing.

Perfectly fine to say I don’t need that to the above items. I do need that stuff, moving to Linux would be more effort than benefit. I have zero desire to keep a web browsing, light word processing machine next to a windows machine for everything else. To me that is not a benefit, that is a pain in the ass.

Not sure what flavor of Linux you're running, but any issues with streaming sites are entirely browser related, and have very little to do with the OS. I've had zero issues with any streaming site using Chrome or Firefox.

 

As for running games, Wine works quite well for most that aren't covered well by Steam's Proton service. And you can run non-Steam games through it also. (link)

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1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

I found this recently, and it was interesting to read... (though the lack of proper punctuation kills me)

Linux.jpg.6ee7d8ff49c49023384f33ead0870b47.jpg

 

And thinking on it, this part in particular.

"Can you read at a high school level? You will have no issue working and learning Linux."

 

Most of the issues you might run to are merely a quick Google search away. If you can read and follow basic instructions, it doesn't require an engineering degree to run. 

 

Yeah, I do agree on the “relative ease of use” but I still know people (friends and family) who are just not willing to mess with it. I’ve tried and lost the battle. I was able to get 1 person to switch to an Apple MacBook, which is sort of a “win” and they love it over Windows, but then again they weren’t really doing anything special (no special apps, for work, etc).edit: and they spent a bizillion dollars for it(ha) but I got to have their old laptop as they no longer wanted it.  So it sorta kept some old hardware out of a landfill. 

 

the other problem I’ve run into is Windows apps that run poorly on Wine. Usually it’s “I have to have this app” like old school Quicken or something where they’ve been using it for years. :)

 

ao my experiences have been not so great, other than those that have moved to Apple products, none of them have messed with the “normal Linuxy stuff” like the command line or changing their desktop manager or handling backups, file formats changing (using LibreOffice, etc).  
 

honestly, for the younger kids I know (relatives)  if it’s not on their phones, then it’s for school. And if it’s not for school, it doesn’t exist as a concept. My niece (who can drive) had her Windows laptop break and she asked if I could fix it (sight unseen). I asked her what OS it was as a joke and she looked at me like I just landed and asked to see their leader. And she didn’t really care, as the laptop was for school and not her phone. “I’ll just buy another one” was the answer when I tried to ask any questions.  Another niece was shown a raspberry pi with Minecraft on it (her favorite game at the time) and she almost died of boredom within 3 seconds. Probably because it was bulkier than a phone. Smh;) but that’s my general experience.

Edited by doughphunghus (see edit history)
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39 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Not sure what flavor of Linux you're running, but any issues with streaming sites are entirely browser related, and have very little to do with the OS. I've had zero issues with any streaming site using Chrome or Firefox.

 

As for running games, Wine works quite well for most that aren't covered well by Steam's Proton service. And you can run non-Steam games through it also. (link)

 

Don’t get me wrong, Linux is a viable choice provided you are willing to learn a little about it or deal with small random frustrations.

I do not and I know my wife would go nuts if something didn’t work like accessing her work email via a vpn.

Linux is a fine solution, just not the right solution for me.

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3 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:


it is said to be a lighter install, smaller patches, faster booting and more current day virus resistant as in better defense vs ransomware.

I would keep an eye on it.

Also it will be free for Windows 10 users as of now that appears to be forever.

But yeah from what I have seen it looks very Apple OS X cartoony.

but realistically... they gotta make money somehow and its the use your personal info trick they are doing it with... nothing is totally free... just depends on what you are willing to let marketing companies have from you.

 

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1 hour ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

Per messing around with my Pi the Linux browser (whatever it is called) works fine for day to day stuff and it is sort of fast.

Now comes the inconvenient truth.

this is a site about a game, fortunately 7d2d works with Linux. Many, many, many, many other popular games do not.

If you want to game Windows is pretty much required unless you are doing something weird like nvidia shield or google whatever streaming game service or you are only playing very specific games that work with Linux and have little desire for something different.

More inconvenient truth, other streaming sites may not like Linux as much. Stuff like pause & forward button can be missing.

Perfectly fine to say I don’t need that to the above items. I do need that stuff, moving to Linux would be more effort than benefit. I have zero desire to keep a web browsing, light word processing machine next to a windows machine for everything else. To me that is not a benefit, that is a pain in the ass.

 

This was the truth of two years ago. The present truth is that Valve extended a windows emulator greatly and called it Proton. In the last months I have tried a lot of pure windows games and with the small exception that playing pure video sequences often failed ALL the games without a single exception worked flawlessly out of the box on Ubuntu

 

Now, I don't expect this to be true for every game out there, surely there must be cases that still don't run or don't run well. I know that my older PC with an old R7 350 from 2015 as GPU has some more problems. And I suspect you will fare better with a widely used distribution, especially ubuntu.

 

 

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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6 minutes ago, doughphunghus said:

Yeah, I do agree on the “relative ease of use” but I still know people (friends and family) who are just not willing to mess with it. I’ve tried and lost the battle. I was able to get 1 person to switch to an Apple MacBook, which is sort of a “win” and they love it over Windows, but then again they weren’t really doing anything special (no special apps, for work, etc).

 

the other problem I’ve run into is Windows apps that run poorly on Wine. Usually it’s “I have to have this app” like old school Quicken or something where they’ve been using it for years. :)

 

ao my experiences have been not so great, other than those that have moved to Apple products, none of them have messed with the “normal Linuxy stuff” like the command line or changing their desktop manager or handling backups, file formats changing (using LibreOffice, etc).  
 

honestly, for the younger kids I know (relatives)  if it’s not on their phones, then it’s for school. And if it’s not for school, it doesn’t exist as a concept. My niece (who can drive) had her Windows laptop break and she asked if I could fix it (sight unseen). I asked her what OS it was as a joke and she looked at me like I just landed and asked to see their leader. And she didn’t really care, as the laptop was for school and not her phone. “I’ll just buy another one” was the answer when I tried to ask any questions.  Another niece was shown a raspberry pi with Minecraft on it (her favorite game at the time) and she almost died of boredom within 3 seconds. Probably because it was bulkier than a phone. Smh;) but that’s my general experience.

 

It has taken me a long time but I have finally realized don’t mess with what people want when it comes to tech. Even if you think what they are doing stinks or is complicated or wasteful.

”Selling” someone on the benefits of a change that they don’t see as a benefit just leads to misery.

great example is my Father. They have a smart TV (don’t get me started as to why one shouldn’t own a smart TV). The TV has a YouTube app, he has fallen in love with random YouTube videos. Watching him hunt and peck thru the on screen keyboard to search using a standard TV remote is painful to me. I get frustrated watching him do it.

I suggested using their iPad for YouTube, showed him how and to this day he I never have seen him watch YouTube on their iPad. I have never had him email me a YouTube like like we went over on the iPad. I have had him text me a recording of a YouTube video from his phone.

I bought a cromecast to plug into the tv so he could use the iPad keyboard to search. Asking him to change the mode on the TV was more effort than he wanted to deal with, without even opening the chrome cast I returned it. No sense taking this fight on if he wants to use the TV remote to search that’s his choice.

I made another attempt with a roku stick  I was hoping they’d get comfortable with it and it has a talking remove. That has to be easier than using a remote. Same problem changing the TV mode is not something he wants to do, going to a different TV for YouTube is off the table.

Last month I showed him how to send a YouTube video to the roku, again he has zero interest.

I have finally given up. He has what he wants and why mess with it.

Fortunately I have finally become smart enough to make sure I can return something or even not bother setting it up if I get the stink eye.

10 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

but realistically... they gotta make money somehow and its the use your personal info trick they are doing it with... nothing is totally free... just depends on what you are willing to let marketing companies have from you.

 

 

Agreed and as of today I trust Microsoft with my data more than google, amazon or Apple.

sounds strange to say that.

 

*apple is getting better so they may be trusted soon*

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17 hours ago, canadianbluebeer said:

 

Because I *know* the kind of crap they do. 

 

 

The distance between knowing and assuming is wide.

 

I still work for a software company and everyday I am reminded that we don't know how it will truly perform until we release on 1000's of different hardware configs.

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7 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

I find it difficult to believe that very many people are going to upgrade to windows 11 if it requires a hardware upgrade on their motherboard.

they wont, but time will force them to buy a new computer with it installed as old computers will be unsupported. :)

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2 hours ago, ElCabong said:

I find it difficult to believe that very many people are going to upgrade to windows 11 if it requires a hardware upgrade on their motherboard.

 

To my admittedly amateur understanding most mordern(ish) CPUs have the TPM built into them just needs to be enabled in the bios however, getting average joe to enable that in the bios will be problematic.

I suspect MS will ultimately either:

come up with some funky way to enable it in the bios/ufei during installation 

or

that is a system builder feature that needs to be enabled as in Dell, HP, Lenovo and so on will need to build new machines with it enabled. MS will say that requirement is not enforced for consumer installations *but you won’t get enhanced ransomware protection*

Edited by Fanatical_Meat (see edit history)
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18 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:

To my admittedly amateur understanding most mordern(ish) CPUs have the TPM built into them

That's what I understood to be the case also. But people like to see the sky falling so they say it requiores new hardwre just to have some thing to complain about. My 2c.

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Windows Vista and 8 was a complete disaster for me. W 8.1 fixed a lot of issues. Actually I liked the most Windows 98SE and 7. The fact that 1st Ryzens and Intels 7th gen is not oficially supported (at least yet) completely sucks.

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