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Question about the upcoming outfit system


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Just now, IndustryStandard said:

Nope, plenty interested. Of course I'd rather more official things but I'm open to ideas.

Take a bit of "having to rework the current clothing/armor to fit the new system", add a bit of "we need one of these to protect against the radiation damage that we will be turning back on in the Wasteland" and throw in a "Hey, wouldn't it be nice if all the outfits did more than just add armor and weather related effects to the pc instead of just the radiation gear?" and voila. MMORPG style "class" sets with GSrng gated stats.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Take a bit of "having to rework the current clothing/armor to fit the new system", add a bit of "we need one of these to protect against the radiation damage that we will be turning back on in the Wasteland" and throw in a "Hey, wouldn't it be nice if all the outfits did more than just add armor and weather related effects to the pc instead of just the radiation gear?" and voila. MMORPG style "class" sets with GSrng gated stats.


I mean that seems like a logical series of events to me. Obviously radiation suits being useful, gas masks and all that jazz are good ideas and allow for more interested locations. It'd be fun. For gas masks I'd like a hotkey to take it on and off similar to the helmet flashlights.

The current ballpark numbers and concepts for those stats though still warrant a real concern to me though.

 

Edited by IndustryStandard (see edit history)
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On 6/22/2021 at 3:03 PM, IndustryStandard said:

With the new outfit system I have to ask

What about solo players? How do the developers intend this new system being used by players?

Is the entire idea that players will swap outfits constantly depending on the biome and current activity? Do they see players feeling pressured to minmax as a possible issue? 

I'm trying to be more open minded about it but I'm having a terrible time getting behind this new system.

 

Rather than quote your wall of text in the previous post, I'll quote your original.  Every single one of these questions got answered, some multiple times.

 

It will work the same for solo players as it will for every other kind of player... you wear clothing you get bonuses.  You wear a complete set you get extra bonuses.

 

They intend it to be used exactly how clothing is used now only having a bit more of a purpose to it.

 

SOME players will feel the need to swap constantly because they simply must have the highest value of everything before they can do anything or they face feeling inferior.  Any pressure put on said players are their own doing, not that of the developers.  The developers are just giving us toys to play with not telling us how to play with them.

 

There is absolutely nothing public about this new system that is finalized at all so there is no point being anything but open minded about it.

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

Rather than quote your wall of text in the previous post, I'll quote your original.  Every single one of these questions got answered, some multiple times.

 

It will work the same for solo players as it will for every other kind of player... you wear clothing you get bonuses.  You wear a complete set you get extra bonuses.

 

They intend it to be used exactly how clothing is used now only having a bit more of a purpose to it.

 

SOME players will feel the need to swap constantly because they simply must have the highest value of everything before they can do anything or they face feeling inferior.  Any pressure put on said players are their own doing, not that of the developers.  The developers are just giving us toys to play with not telling us how to play with them.

 

There is absolutely nothing public about this new system that is finalized at all so there is no point being anything but open minded about it.

 

 

When I asked how the developers envision this system working I wasn't asking as obvious as how you'd literally use the outfit system. I was asking how they envisioned the players interacting with it. If they pictured them doing the same thing as before or changing there behaviors at all. Then see the part where I mentioned the best and worst case scenarios of this system coming out. Either it's a imbalanced nightmare and you'd be an idiot for not changing your outfits constantly depending on the task or it comes out with incredibly light stat adjustments and then really impacts nothing and seems ultimately pointless to have even bothered in the first place.

I get genuinely frustrated by this need to constantly try putting people in boxes right now and I want it to stop. If you feel the need to tell anyone they are a minority opinion or part of a SOME crowd or anything remotely of this nature then you need to knock that off. It's really hard to stay rational and calm when 1 side is trying to belittle the other over a disagreement. It happens constantly here. I've already had patronizing replies to my comments here. 

Open mindedness does not contradict expressing concerns. I will use it when it comes out and I will try to adjust before forming any strong feeling towards it. Open mindedness does not mean shutting your mouth of any negativity or worries or asking questions. As I explained in my comment you replied to, if the system actually is terrible and awful then my worries aren't just with that system and more that I am going to be stuck with that system until the next Alpha or possibly longer. 

It should also be said I'm not "mad" right now. So don't get the tone from my text as being mad.
 

Edited by IndustryStandard (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

The current ballpark numbers and concepts for those stats though still warrant a real concern to me though.

They're place holders iirc. Though, as you and others have brought up, it is going to be tricky hitting that balance between "Meh, 2 extra iron per swing/crank really doesn't matter so I'll just wear whatever." and "If I don't save this car till I get all the pieces of <Mega Outfit ZERO!!!> I'll miss out on getting an engine from it." A.k.a "So what, the stats are pointless" and "forced to change".

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Right so they should scrap the stat portion entirely because that doesn't exist in a way where the system adds anything to the game as a whole. At least a radiation suit and a gas mask would mean going to new areas with better potential loot, new enemies and so on. Actual gameplay improvement.

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So because the stats are possibly over or under powered, they should be scrapped entirely?

that’s a completely useless standard, all stats can be too high or too low.

we don’t know whether or not the stat bonuses add anything of merit because we have no idea what they’ll look like outside of the very earliest concepting.

Edited by ShellHead
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, ShellHead said:

So because the stats are possibly over or under powered, they should be scrapped entirely?

that’s a completely useless standard, all stats can be too high or too low.


Not all stats, specifically the yield/loot stats.

 

Armor values, Cold/Heat resist, noise, speed while wearing etc. Are all valid stats to have.

A healthy balance doesn't exist for something that is either impactful or not. 

Edited by IndustryStandard (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

Right so they should scrap the stat portion entirely because that doesn't exist in a way where the system adds anything to the game as a whole. At least a radiation suit and a gas mask would mean going to new areas with better potential loot, new enemies and so on. Actual gameplay improvement.

Maybe. I'm reserving judgement on it till I see how it pans out with the first release (A21 iirc, though that might slip again). I do hope they rethink the "nerd" outfit concept... The current one screams "I an idiot who t'ink I smart!"... @%$#ing hell.

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I still don't get it.  If you, or anyone else, feels like swapping clothing all the time to min/max each situation then do it... but don't blame anyone else for that behavior.  You find the clothing that best fits your play style and stick with that.  Maybe they have more mods that can be added to clothing so you can tailor your outfit to better suit you.  So maybe your full set isn't OP but gives you a starting point that you find easiest to mold into what you really want and provides the look you desire.

 

But mostly just stay open and don't panic.  These guys have so far proven they will get to the right place eventually even if it takes a few alphas to patch things up with the clothing system.

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Again. Part of the concerns is that it does take a few Alphas until it isn't bad if it turns out bad. That means waiting a few years for A21/22/23 or whenever it comes out if it does. 

 

And I feel like if you still aren't understanding the concerns then you just won't ever understand it, that's fine, we all play video games differently.

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8 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

So I posted this originally as a genuine question about how TFP were envisioning this system working out and when the answers I got seem defaulted to trying to defend the upcoming outfit system from someone not attacking it so I bailed on getting any sensible answers and left for a week. I still don't have an answer to my question on how they pictured this system working and can only assume they have never expressed what they thought players would do with it. If they thought they would swap outfits, mix it up or stick to one etc. So at that point the thread should have just died.

 

I'll be clearer this time. The devs intent is for players to use the outfits as they please. They can mix up the different pieces for four different bonuses in four different areas or they can wear a complete set to get the completion bonus as well. Players can change clothing as often as they desire or they can stick to one favored combination and never change clothes again. This is their intent. They pictured you finding farmer pants and replacing your fiber pants with them. Then you might find a miner top and you would wear that. As you find and perhaps come to craft more pieces you would wear the ones you liked best and eventually you might obtain a full set and change to that.

 

Did they imagine that some players would feel compelled to swap pieces on and off before doing anything so as to not miss out on the bonuses? Sure....but they rack that up to player choice. Not every player is going to do that. Many will find doing so to be entertaining. For those who feel that they MUST swap outfits constantly but hate the idea of doing it but do it anyway and are just miserable as they play....I don't know what to suggest. Therapy?

 

1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:

Just because I or anyone else do not like the concept or idea of these potentially upcoming outfit systems that could be wildly unbalanced or perfect in every way does not mean I shouldn't and cannot express it. My concerns did not boil into some heated anger because I saw the number 8 go down to 4 and after that all I saw was red. The only people who seem to have already come here with a predetermined opinion on the matter are the ones accusing people concerned about the outfit system as doing the same thing, saying that I can't not like it because it doesn't exist but they can defend what doesn't exist and just dismissing genuine worries as minmaxing crybabies that are just making a fuss because they don't like things changing or less options. If you cannot get past this simple idea then take your crappy attitude somewhere else.

 

You can express it and you have expressed it. But you do not get to express it in a vaccuum of thought. People with differing opinions get to chime in and push back and you get to push back and counter once again. BTW, I was not referring to anyone in this thread about the anger of 8 slots going down to 4. I was referring to when the announcement was first made and the kneejerk reaction to it happened. My point was not that we shouldn't discuss the upcoming feature and speculate on what it might entail. That kind of discussion is fun and creative and exciting. My point was that saying: "If so many people don't like the idea then TFP shouldn't do it" is a pointless and unconstructive line of discussion. That is the truly bad attitude stance to take. This is a development forum. We should be discussing what we want to see and what we hope to see with regards to what is being developed. "Don't develop that!" is the antitheses of what this forum is about.

 

1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:

But  I don't like the idea of it though and I don't want to wait for the system to come out and find out that it's everything we worried about and won't be touched again for over a year until the next alpha hits

 

But you can't control that and this attitude dampens positive and constructive discussion on the topic. TFP has a plan for revamping the original clothing and armor system into something they believe will be better and will look better and they are going to do it despite people telling them, "I didn't ask for this so what do you think you're doing!?".  Early access isn't about forming a community comittee that has equal development power to the TFP development team. It is about playing early what they choose to develop  so we can give feedback and suggestions based on actual play. TFP has never listened to community input on whether they should or should not implement something. They have listened to community input on newly implemented systems to see how they should iterate on them. That is the relationship we have with them.

 

1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:

So why even bother changing everything anyway if at worst it could be a horrible system that were stuck with for 2 years or at best it not really impacting how we play anyway? Am I the only person seeing this as just a waste of time and resources no matter how it turns out?

 

They are changing it because it is a legacy system from the early days that looks bad when seen next to the other systems in the game they are polishing. They want the visual and technical presentation of their game to be as good as it can be and in their estimation the clothing and armor system is dated and ugly and the best they could do with it is not good enough for a shippable product. You have been playing all this time with placeholder mechanic and now they want to make it into a quality mechanic that will make everyone look really good and also provide more fun collection gameplay as well as bonuses. Also, since it is their time and their resources as stake-- again, it really doesn't matter what you or anyone else thinks. You are making a judgement call about their time and resources without even a clue of the full picture of what their time and resources and plans are. Its fine to speculate but what a negative and unhopeful speculation.

 

2 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

can we please for the love of @%$#ing god see a light at the end of this long tunnel now? Can we get that Alpha that seems to finally be shaping all the games mechanics and content into a lovely bow instead of remaking another aspect again?

 

What's wrong with this long tunnel? What do you imagine being different at the end of it? Why do you think that remaking aspects of the game that are not up to snuff is not supposed to be part of the development process? I'd say that revamping the clothing and armor system we had in 2014 is probably part of that process of shaping the mechanics and content into a lovely bow. How do you develop without remaking?

 

2 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

invested nearly 600 hours into

 

Playing a video game for 600 hours is not an investment. I'd call that the polar opposite of a time investment. Don't get me wrong. I waste time playing video games too. But I call it what it is....lol

2 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

Yet no matter how calmly or polite I act I could still be met with a perceived passive aggressiveness from the more active portion of the community for even expressing negativity. 

And if the response to suggestions, concerns and criticisms of existing systems really boils down to TFP regardless of community feedback will do whatever they want anyway then why the hell are we even commenting here at all or bothering to give them any feedback to begin with?

 

At least you recognize that it is simply your own perception. I don't feel any aggression towards you. I disagree with your stance. If you view disagreement and passive aggressiveness as one and the same then why bother posting on a public board? Write your thoughts in your personal journal and you won't ever be pestered by contrary opinions.

 

As I stated earlier and I will state again for super clarity: TFP loves suggestions, concerns, and criticisms of existing systems and they often use that feedback to make alterations as they develop those systems. Community feedback has a huge impact on follow-up versions of existing systems.

 

TFP has no interest in armchair developers telling them what they should or should not do about future not yet implemented systems. Please don't spend your time on these forums telling them not to do it. Its pointless and it destroys constructive and creative dialogue. We are here to talk about development and not to demand that development not take place.

 

So why are we bothering to come here at all? You'll have to decide that on your own whether what TFP wants from us is what you are interested in giving. And being "stuck" with experimental partially done systems is what true early access is all about. It is proof that these developers take the early access label seriously and are not just using it for marketing with their already 95% developed game. It is a long tunnel and perhaps you didn't understand the length of it when you bought in.

1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:

It should also be said I'm not "mad" right now. So don't get the tone from my text as being mad.

 

Word and phrasing choices. Its probably why you felt I was attacking you even though I don't think of myself as attacking you personally. Word and phrasing choices. :)

 

And no smilies.

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1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:


Not all stats, specifically the yield/loot stats.

 

Armor values, Cold/Heat resist, noise, speed while wearing etc. Are all valid stats to have.

A healthy balance doesn't exist for something that is either impactful or not. 

While i can see what you mean in the context of yield/loot bonuses, I disagree but i do think they should have more of an offset.

that last statement though is ridiculous. Impact is not a yes/no factor, that’s literally the core principle of the entire concept of game balance. We can argue about whether those bonuses should be there or not (i’d say that as is they shouldn’t be implemented but they likely look much different now than when announced) but everything an attain a healthy balance while having a noticeable impact.

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52 minutes ago, IndustryStandard said:

Again. Part of the concerns is that it does take a few Alphas until it isn't bad if it turns out bad. That means waiting a few years for A21/22/23 or whenever it comes out if it does. 

 

And I feel like if you still aren't understanding the concerns then you just won't ever understand it, that's fine, we all play video games differently.

 

I understand the concern. This is part of development and since TFP has put their game out there as an actual alpha project that is being developed it is just the way it is. There will be long periods of time where you have to play with partially completed systems. If they had marketing executives, I'm sure those guys would have clamped down on them and said, "No, don't release that until it is completely done" and "No, that system is good enough, don't rework it again" but they chose to go independent studio rather than marketing executives so they enjoy a lot more freedom in what they do. Amazingly, the game has only become more popular over time rather than lesso-- despite a year of pulling stone axes out of shotgun messiah crates(A18)-- despite 10 months of horrid RWG (A17)-- despite a year and a half of zombies running in circles and being completely deaf and blind at night (A16)-- and on and on. 

 

There are two types of people: Those who should wait until early access is over and everything is perfect and those who enjoy really long tunnels.

 

And those who categorize people (three types).

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Posted (edited)
Quote

I'll be clearer this time. The devs intent is for players to use the outfits as they please. They can mix up the different pieces for four different bonuses in four different areas or they can wear a complete set to get the completion bonus as well. Players can change clothing as often as they desire or they can stick to one favored combination and never change clothes again. This is their intent.


But you also said

 

Quote

I think they are intending for players to play with a prefered outfit that has the benefits they want and some disadvantages they'll have to live with.

 

So do you think or do you know? Are you speculating or quoting them and if so could you link me to the video or post so I can gather context for it too? Because this is literally all I wanted from this thread.

 

Quote

But you can't control that and this attitude dampens positive and constructive discussion on the topic. 

 

In other words, they couldn't care less that some min/maxer will get butt hurt because they feel "forced" to switch outfits several times each game day. That sort of gameplay is not their intention even though they know some will do it. Besides, the salt from the tears of min/maxers, who can't cope with game mechanics that make min/maxing less fun but character development gameplay more rich and deep, is saved up to season meatball sandwiches during every streamer weekend release event.
 


And bringing this into a discussion clearly doesn't dampen positive discussion. Or emote reacting with the have a cookie phrase to imply someone is upset or the patronizing attempts from other people commenting trying to belittle opinions by saying they are a minority. I hope you aren't this unaware of how you come across once a stage like this is being set alongside some other remarks from other people. It comes across passive aggressive or rude. This doesn't at all give me the impression of a development team that loves suggestions.

 

Quote

You can express it and you have expressed it. But you do not get to express it in a vaccuum of thought. People with differing opinions get to chime in and push back and you get to push back and counter once again. 


What you're describing and what happened here and what I picked up on going back several pages of the forums threads (i was bored last week) is that this isn't true. What seems to happen on the forums is a group of the forums frequent flyers will come into the thread to stonewall the original poster and then cherry pick pieces to argue about until the thread has completely derailed from the original purpose and people are going back and forth over completely mundane things compared to the original post. It's not a naturally progressing discussion. These patterns stick out to me and a fine line exists between healthy discussions and arguing. Are we discussing or is someone trying to change my mind on something we just don't agree on?

 

If you want a positive discussion then crack down on the people belittling others thoughts, enough of the crappy attitudes that any players playing certain ways are being seen as crybabies

 

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What's wrong with this long tunnel? What do you imagine being different at the end of it? Why do you think that remaking aspects of the game that are not up to snuff is not supposed to be part of the development process? I'd say that revamping the clothing and armor system we had in 2014 is probably part of that process of shaping the mechanics and content into a lovely bow. How do you develop without remaking?


I genuinely do not want to get into this games long development cycle.

 

Quote

Playing a video game for 600 hours is not an investment. I'd call that the polar opposite of a time investment. Don't get me wrong. I waste time playing video games too. But I call it what it is....lol


I didn't mean investment the way you think I meant investment. It's a time investment sure but I wouldn't put any additional hours in if it suddenly turned out TFP wanted to make 7DTD into a racing game. Instead it's 600 hours ignoring and passing on various things with the hope and optimism of it being changed and fixed later. And a lot of people in game discussions use the game hours as a way of gatekeeping who is and isn't allowed to think certain things.

 

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I disagree with your stance. If you view disagreement and passive aggressiveness as one and the same then why bother posting on a public board? 


I don't.  Hopefully by this point I have pointed at various things that may have given me a passive aggressive impression. I won't drag other people into this but it wasn't just your remark.

 

Quote

As I stated earlier and I will state again for super clarity: TFP loves suggestions, concerns, and criticisms of existing systems and they often use that feedback to make alterations as they develop those systems. Community feedback has a huge impact on follow-up versions of existing systems.

 

TFP has no interest in armchair developers telling them what they should or should not do about future not yet implemented systems. Please don't spend your time on these forums telling them not to do it. Its pointless and it destroys constructive and creative dialogue. We are here to talk about development and not to demand that development not take place.

 

I would think if they love suggestions, concerns and criticisms then speculating about possible features and expressing concern about there impact on the game belongs here. I know you want it to be exclusively about existing content but that just seems rediciulous. TFP shouldn't have shared anything about it then if they didn't want to allow any reactions to it. A concerns tops being a concern once it exists, because either something is or isn't so nothing to be concerned over. A concern fits logically into worrying about upcoming features and the direction of the game which you seem in favor of not really wanting that type of discussion at all.

And I would definitely say my post fit perfectly inline with a concern for the outfit system. And I have definitely not tried to play a popularity contest about suggestions, some things a playerbase will hate but need for the gameplay to work better. Xcom 2 introduced the timers because the developers didn't like that in the first game players would move slowly and overwatch every turn. It ended up making for a more intense gameplay experience which forced a wider range of strategies. A system that is annoying but beneficial. I truely do not see the tossed around idea for possible outfit system fitting into this because of previously mentioned reasons throughout the post.

 


I really really want to end the paragraph war now. 

Edited by IndustryStandard (see edit history)
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20 minutes ago, Roland said:

TFP has put their game out there as an actual alpha project that is being developed it is just the way it is.

Just gonna toss this take in before someone starts raggin' on this part.

 

A big plus to how they've been developing 7d2d, including no nda on the public experimentals and stables so that people can stream it, has been being able to have a much larger test group to draw data from to use in their adjustments and squashing things that aren't functioning they way they want. How many damn PC games did we play in the late 80's into the early 00's that were permanently stuck with crippling bugs and glitches (I lost count myself)? Now how often do the major companies toss in maybe 3 years of loose development with maybe a year tops of hard focused dev work that includes bug finding/fixing yet still release buggy/glitchy messes (Day 1 patches are a meme for a reason)? I'm glad TFP has taken their time and built up the game how they have. To me it shows how much of a @%$# they give about how their second game, 7d2d ain't TFP's first rodeo, is going to be able to do when they've finished with it. I hope they put as much effort into their next projects as they have this one and that they'll turn out as good as 7d2d looks to be shaping up to. I still remember watching MineCrack playing it in Alpha 2 or 3... Night and day...

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1 hour ago, IndustryStandard said:

Again. Part of the concerns is that it does take a few Alphas until it isn't bad if it turns out bad. That means waiting a few years for A21/22/23 or whenever it comes out if it does.

 

Good heavens. I assume this is your default starting position for any announced new or changed feature? If you're going to imagine the worst outcome and then conclude "That means [X]", why not go all out? Never mind "if it turns out bad", what if it turns out Really Bad? Like, "this is the free clinic calling, is Mr. IndustryStandard there?" bad. A Vanilla Ice comeback tour bad. Star Wars on Broadway Featuring an All-Jar-Jar Cast bad. "British Accents for Aspiring Actors, by Peter Dinklage and D. Van Dyke*" bad. Pineapple on pizza bad. You get what I'm saying. Don't hold back your imagination.

 

* Seriously forums? @%$# is the man's name and I should be able to call him @%$#. @%$# @%$# @%$#.

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Boidster said:

 

Good heavens. I assume this is your default starting position for any announced new or changed feature? If you're going to imagine the worst outcome and then conclude "That means [X]", why not go all out? Never mind "if it turns out bad", what if it turns out Really Bad? Like, "this is the free clinic calling, is Mr. IndustryStandard there?" bad. A Vanilla Ice comeback tour bad. Star Wars on Broadway Featuring an All-Jar-Jar Cast bad. "British Accents for Aspiring Actors, by Peter Dinklage and @%$# Van Dyke" bad. Pineapple on pizza bad. You get what I'm saying. Don't hold back your imagination.


Solid contribution to the thread, honestly. I hope you gave the strawman a nice hat.

Just to clarify, I imagined both outcomes. Best and worst. Not exclusively one or the other. Of course I would love for it to come out and be great, I want that to be the case. But my brain has genuine worries towards it and it's not like I can't point to this games past at other examples of things being god awful that were supposed to be great and being stuck with it. It's a warranted reaction to me.

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26 minutes ago, Boidster said:

* Seriously forums? @%$# is the man's name and I should be able to call him @%$#. @%$# @%$# @%$#.

Lol. That's his stage name. His birth name is Richard. 🤣

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10 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

* Seriously forums? @%$# is the man's name and I should be able to call him @%$#. @%$# @%$# @%$#.

 

His name is illegal on this forum since a moderator heard him sing. Lionel Ritchie may be next.

 

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56 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

His name is illegal on this forum since a moderator heard him sing. Lionel Ritchie may be next.

 

 

There needs to be a YouTube video of all the moderators singing "We Are The World" together.

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I believe that what has been missed in the discussion is Light/Heavy armor properties in every outfit.

I think that every outfit in the next Alpha is going to work in the same or similar manner as the current armors/outfits with the addition of buffs to certain activities - this is how I read this.

 

Honestly, I would be much more excited to see information about ever-expanding armor properties. Such enablers may possibly grant protection against natural hazards like fire, toxic spills, weather protection, radiation buffs, etc. Every outfit might have strengths or weaknesses against blunt weapons damage or rapture from animals and protection against fast-moving projectiles. Armor or outfits should have such properties in my humble opinion, Just imagine having 12 sets consisting of 4 pieces then the devs could possibly move away from 1-5 of quality levels but instead with only slightly various stats. The abundance of gear placed in harder locations automatically balances the game but people will find a way to break through and fetch better gear. Adding properties in form of books to outfits - I have nothing against it but the primary function of the armor is to protect and that's where the focus should find its rightful place.

 

- Heavy armor (granting high protection against let's say projectile impact and animal/blunt weapon rapture) could add to encumbrance and penalty to movement or actions.

- Light armor instead should give less protection but grant more mobility to players in a similar fashion as it is.

- Properties of Hazmat or some Scientific outfit may include predominantly protection against environmental hazards. Some might be heavier, other lighter.

This is how I would see thematic outfits: Heavy and Light variants of military armors and vests, hazmat/scientific protection gear, police riot gears, custom leather bandit/scavenging armors  - this brings post-apo-feel to the game I think when it comes to armors. Outfits in a currently planned manner - I have to see it first and play a while.

 

What I think that there is too much beating about the same bush is how to make progression more progressive in some manner. I believe that's enough to have leveling in players' characters and the rest of the equipment should be just diverse (my favorite word) and not necessarily way better than the other one, just have strengths and weaknesses. I probably repeat myself like a broken tape but honestly whatever PIMPs are about to deliver will ultimately bring me lots of fun time no matter what. First, we have to see in-game and then have a constructive talk. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

But you also said

 

Quote

I think they are intending for players to play with a prefered outfit that has the benefits they want and some disadvantages they'll have to live with.

 

So do you think or do you know? Are you speculating or quoting them and if so could you link me to the video or post so I can gather context for it too? Because this is literally all I wanted from this thread.

 

As I said, I think. There are things I think (speculation) and things I know. My two statements were not contradictory nor mutually exclusive. I know that the developers value tough choices and role playing.  Hence, I know that their philosophy with the outfits is to facilitate roleplaying and to introduce some tough choices in the form of opportunity cost. I think that they expect that within the community there will be those who wear mixed sets and those who wear whole sets. I'm sure they are aware that there will be those who will feel compelled to switch outfits a lot for the sake of efficiency but I know that it isn't their goal to make players do this. Their goal is to provide a good variety of outfits that provide bonuses to make acquiring the pieces fun and exciting. 

 

My statement that you quoted above is from what I know about how Madmole likes to roleplay. He likes to play as a character and even creates his own personal backstory. If he decided that he wanted to play as a farmer, he would seek out all the farmer pieces and then wear those all the time to be a farmer. Even though it would mean he was gimped when doing other activities he would be fine with that and see it as part of the challenge of playing a farmer. So that was the thought process for that statement. If Madmole projects his personal playstyle of roleplaying at the expense of maximum efficiency in all situations then I think he would intend for players to choose an outfit and stick with it and roleplay as that character.  That doesn't mean he isn't aware of those who could care less about roleplaying and value having the best bonuses in every situation. It also doesn't mean that he would try and stop players from min/maxing if they would want to.

 

You'll have to trust me on this. I'm not providing sources.

 

17 hours ago, IndustryStandard said:

I really really want to end the paragraph war now. 

 

Peace.

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20 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Everyone looking the same is fun? Did you play any other games in the past few years? Doesn´t seem like it.

 

Have you played this game in the past few years? We have padded armor, leather armor, scrap armor, iron armor, steel armor, military armor. That is six different looks that layer on top of whatever clothes you are wearing. The layering is really bad and everyone looks puffy and poorly proportioned. Once everyone is armored up the look is pretty samey and it has been this way for 7 years now and....yeah, the game has still managed to be fun.

 

Six new looks have been introduced as concepts and they are not the only planned outfits. So as far as the concern about how fun the game is based on people looking the same, the new feature is bound to make the game more fun by your metric. There will be a lot more differentiation in looks than the six we currently have. They have also been improving the tinting so two people dressed completely as miners could differentiate in color choices. Finally, there will also be people who will prefer to mix sets and then the permutations really increase over what we have now with the added bonus of it looking better without all the layering getting in the way.

 

I agree that designating certain outfits as light armor and heavy armor is a concern because I don't like heavy armor myself and that would put a crimp in which outfits I might like playing with. But to say that this change is going to result in everyone looking the same over what we have right now? I don't agree with that.

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