Whats wrong with my blood moon

[bachgaman]

1 minute ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Speed?

 

Longer days? Like 120min days? Ok, that would also explain how you can get all the stuff by day 25.

Zeds speed

 

60 min = 24h

[Liesel Weppen]

Just now, bachgaman said:

I think I'll try mods. I've already tried some, its usually difficult.

No, it's not. Unzip an archive into your 7d2d folder. That's it.

 

Just now, bachgaman said:

Although I don't like them in general. I think the vanilla version should be difficult without mods. Especially the amount of settings available

No. Vanilla has to satisfy a wide range of players. From noobs to pros. And the pros are usually the first that get bored. But if you design a game like they want, new players are overwhelmed by definition. And it doesn't scale that easy as you found out yourself.
If you want it harder, mods are the way to go. Especially the total conversions have (massively) increased difficulty by default.

[bachgaman]

20 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

No, it's not. Unzip an archive into your 7d2d folder. That's it.

I'm not talking about installation process. About playing with mods. I've tried three big mods, the game becomes much harder

28 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Quote

 

No. Vanilla has to satisfy a wide range of players. From noobs to pros. And the pros are usually the first that get bored. But if you design a game like they want, new players are overwhelmed by definition. And it doesn't scale that easy as you found out yourself.
If you want it harder, mods are the way to go. Especially the total conversions have (massively) increased difficulty by default.

There are difficulty levels and many other settings to interest everyone. And there's also a balance for that, it would be great if 1 electric fence couldn't stop thousands of living deads

[Liesel Weppen]

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

I'm not talking about installation process. About playing with mods. I've tried three big mods, the game becomes much harder

You are bored, you want it harder. Mods are harder. So what's the problem now? Are they TO hard for you or what?

What do you actually want?

7d2d is not your personal wishlist.

 

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

There are difficulty levels and many other settings to interest everyone. And there's also a balance for that, it would be great if 1 electric fence couldn't stop thousands of living deads

You don't get it. Difficulty settings don't scale limitless and/or either just turn out to be bulletsponges.
How an electric fence works is not a "difficulty setting" it's a game mechanic. If it would be changed to what you suggest, it would make the game harder for everyone, also people that are new to the game.

[BFT2020]

59 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

I thought about it, but I don't understand why the game doesn't give a challenge.
I think I'll try mods. I've already tried some, its usually difficult.
Although I don't like them in general. I think the vanilla version should be difficult without mods. Especially the amount of settings available

 

Of course, I can still set 0.1% loot and 0.1% experience, but it's an artificial complication like unkillable zombies. I think the difficulty should be not just how many times you need to hit a zombie to kill him and not how many chests you have open to find a grenade launcher

 

The game is balanced for the lower difficulties.

 

In addition, this is a sandbox game.  The developers have built us the sandbox.  Now it is up to us to define how we are going to play inside the sandbox.  There are a lot of options out there (in the vanilla game) that makes it harder, especially at the higher difficulties:

 

• Loot abundance set at 50%
• Increasing the zombie speeds (I do this by default now, no more default zombies walking)
• No air drops
• Loot doesn't respawn

My options / restrictions I been adding to increase the challenge:

• Using crafted only items
• Not using traders or limiting their use greatly
• Only using POIs for BM bases
• Not mining (only mining surface boulders)
• Food expires

 

I got over 2000 hours playing this game and not once have I used a mod.  My last playthrough I got to 125 days before I lost interest.  Move onto another game under development to play it a bit (less survival, more casual play) but I am getting ready to generate a new map in 7D2D to start over again.  Setting up some rules to make it more of a challenge and will probably start playing again this week if work allows me to start up again.

Edited April 20, 2021 by BFT2020
Grammar (see edit history)

[Gamida]

I am pretty sure there are mods out there to make the BM horde keep coming until day break. I know guppy made one but haven't used in a while so not sure if it has been updated for this alpha. You should find one in the modding section.

[bachgaman]

5 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

You are bored, you want it harder. Mods are harder. So what's the problem now? Are they TO hard for you or what?

What do you actually want?

7d2d is not your personal wishlist.

Unfortunately, I'm not attracted much to non-original content

By the way, if the game were too difficult for people like you, you could find a mod making the game easier. Would you like this?

11 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

You don't get it. Difficulty settings don't scale limitless and/or either just turn out to be bulletsponges.

I know. Why? 
Another problem with the gamedesign is that difficulty only increases number of shots at zombies to kill. This is an important task for developers, so instead of working on new poorly functioning content, they should adjust old poorly functioning content

But the community requires them to have new pictures instead of properly configured digits

16 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

How an electric fence works is not a "difficulty setting" it's a game mechanic. If it would be changed to what you suggest, it would make the game harder for everyone, also people that are new to the game.

Even if so. This could be one of the components of the right "difficulty." Why not? Do you really think it's harder to implement this than to create active NPC groups (I'm talking about bandits)? I think the development of thugs is worth several hundred similar changes

 

And in general, if you weaken the OP mechanics and strengthen weak worthless mechanics, nothing will change in general, but it will become more interesting to play

[meganoth]

13 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Unfortunately, I'm not attracted much to non-original content

By the way, if the game were too difficult for people like you, you could find a mod making the game easier. Would you like this?

I know. Why? 
Another problem with the gamedesign is that difficulty only increases number of shots at zombies to kill. This is an important task for developers, so instead of working on new poorly functioning content, they should adjust old poorly functioning content

But the community requires them to have new pictures instead of properly configured digits

 

requires them? I'm not aware of the community having a significant influence on the priorities of the developers. EA (at least in this case) is "watch and experience the game while it is developed" not "you design the game, the devs do it".

 

13 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Even if so. This could be one of the components of the right "difficulty." Why not? Do you really think it's harder to implement this than to create active NPC groups (I'm talking about bandits)? I think the development of thugs is worth several hundred similar changes

 

And in general, if you weaken the OP mechanics and strengthen weak worthless mechanics, nothing will change in general, but it will become more interesting to play

 

[bachgaman]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

requires them? I'm not aware of the community having a significant influence on the priorities of the developers. EA (at least in this case) is "watch and experience the game while it is developed" not "you design the game, the devs do it".

 

 

Sure? Moderator pls check dev diary and dev discussion topics 

[Roland]

A great difficulty setting for you bach would be to limit yourself to knives and stealth and see how long you can survive...

4 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Sure? Moderator pls check dev diary and dev discussion topics 

The comments in those threads do not control development. They offer opinions and ideas and feedback from members of the community but the developers are under no obligation to follow what is posted. Just like your feedback to make the game generally harder and have it balanced to the toughest settings isn't going to puppeteer some developer's hand as he types out code for the game.

 

People like to believe that the parts of the game that they don't like are in there because the devs listened to a small active stupid part of the community but 99.9% of the time it really is simply the way the devs themselves wanted it. Every time the game is changed in the direction one faction of the community or another wanted it changed it is because the devs planned to do it anyway and not because they were influenced against their better judgement.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

A great difficulty setting for you bach would be to limit yourself to knives and stealth and see how long you can survive...

The comments in those threads do not control development. They offer opinions and ideas and feedback from members of the community but the developers are under no obligation to follow what is posted. Just like your feedback to make the game generally harder and have it balanced to the toughest settings isn't going to puppeteer some developer's hand as he types out code for the game.

I don't think I should tell you what public opinion is and how it works, but you pretend you don't know. By the way, I don't remember trying to control anyone or demanding anything. I fully understand that I am no one on this resource, and given your reaction to my posts, I understand that I am also lonely here.
 

I wonder if you'd be happy with any game or still a collective opinion set the game to your expectations? After all, as I understand it, most of you are so happy that you don't see a problem even in a treasure hunter

18 minutes ago, Roland said:

People like to believe that the parts of the game that they don't like are in there because the devs listened to a small active stupid part of the community but 99.9% of the time it really is simply the way the devs themselves wanted it. Every time the game is changed in the direction one faction of the community or another wanted it changed it is because the devs planned to do it anyway and not because they were influenced against their better judgement.

Hmm, the moderator calls someone stupid. It's funny
 

I agree, casting pearls before swine is stupid, but being a swine is worse

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Hmm, the moderator calls someone stupid. It's funny

That's not what I read there, learn to actually understand English and come back later... (or just: good troll attempt). 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Hmm, the moderator calls someone stupid. It's funny

I'm not calling anyone stupid. You really are trying hard to take everything as an attack. I'm also not pretending to not understand public opinion. It's unfortunate there is such a language gap here.

 

In the other thread you complain that many abilities are useless and impossible to use at higher difficulties. Maybe you should choose those abilities as a challenge if the game is too easy with the abilities you are choosing to go with.

[Liesel Weppen]

2 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Unfortunately, I'm not attracted much to non-original content

That is your personal problem, not a problem of 7d2d.

 

Quote

By the way, if the game were too difficult for people like you, you could find a mod making the game easier. Would you like this?

I didn't say it's to easy for me. I'm coming close to 1000h since Alpha 15 and since i'm active in the forums and read the dev threads here, changlogs and so on i can adept changes between the major updates pretty fast. So the opposite is the case, i DO USE mods to make it HARDER.

I usually do only one playthrough with each update in vanilla and then do another playthrough with a (total conversion) mod like darkness falls, war of the walkers, ...

 

But your recursion question is essentially wrong. A new, unexpirienced player usually starts with vanilla and doesn't deal with mods and you can't expect him to do. So the game has to be easy enough that he can deal with it and collect experience. Once someone has dozens of hours into the game and then the game becomes to easy for his taste even with high difficulty settings, THEN you can expect him to look for mods.

 

So the answer for you is pretty simple:

Either you look for mods that increase difficulty further than vanilla allows, or accept that you are done with the game. There is no third option.

 

(Besides that there are various ingame settings that increase meta-difficulty you have not used yet, like decreasing loot abundancy or play with shorter days)

 

Quote

And in general, if you weaken the OP mechanics and strengthen weak worthless mechanics, nothing will change in general, but it will become more interesting to play

It's a sandbox. Of course there are mechanics like the trader quests, but because of it being a sandbox it's up to yourself to decide what to do... and how.
You already got suggestions what you can additionally do by yourself, like playing nomad style, not buing equipment from traders but just ressources, and so on.

If you can't do such things unsolicited, just because the game doesn't force you too, a sandbox might be the wrong environment for you.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, bachgaman said:

...

I wonder if you'd be happy with any game or still a collective opinion set the game to your expectations? After all, as I understand it, most of you are so happy that you don't see a problem even in a treasure hunter

...

 

Yes, there is a problem with treasure hunter and I assume players will very seldom perk into it. So why is it still this way? (What follows is a bit second-hand info and mostly speculation)

 

1) Because the lead designer didn't play Perception yet, perception as a whole isn't yet balanced. And no, they don't have much problems with leaving unfinished parts lying around.

2) Because perception is balanced as a whole, i.e. even at release Treasure Hunter may be a dud because other parts of perception are just too good (I consider this not really likely though)

3) Because the game is partly a sandbox, so some perks might just be kept in the game to fill some playstyle/role people might want to play.

4) Because Treasure Hunter might have been the best idea they had at the time to fill the perk list, a fitting perk for perception, a prototype. It might mean it will eventually be enhanced or maybe it will be replaced.

5) Because even if it is a rather worthless perk it doesn't really hinder people playing the game (everyone is free to ignore it), while for example performance problems hinder players with minimum specc PC massively. There are simply other priorities.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

6) Because nobody is locked into any perk purchase thanks to the ability to respec.

[7daysexpert]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:21 AM, uncle.heavy said:

You would need to raise your gamestage by 21, for SP meaning your level + daysalive would need to rise by 18. Given that you have two days if you play default bloodmoon every 7th day, you would have to level up 16 times without dying in those two days.

I hope I did not overlook something in these morning hours but even with some minor oversight it is quite a feat.

managed to hit gamestage 153 also havent died since i started and i think im close to lvl 100 if not lvl 100 already

[Boidster]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:58 AM, Gamida said:

I am pretty sure there are mods out there to make the BM horde keep coming until day break. I know guppy made one but haven't used in a while so not sure if it has been updated for this alpha. You should find one in the modding section.

 

I gots one.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1087

[Gamida]

42 minutes ago, Boidster said:

 

I gots one.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1087

and there you go

 

[Boidster]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:36 AM, Boidster said:

 

I gots one.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1087

 

So last night I actually played my own mod for the first time in a co-op bloodmoon. Around 2AM game time we commented to each other that wow the horde seemed to be going on longer than usual. I forgot that I had installed "Boid's Infinite Trickle" into the server. Previously I had only tested to make sure the new & improved final wave was working as designed; never playtested it really.

 

It actually worked out really well. A steady stream of bad-but-not-the-worst zombies at lower-than-normal spawn rates until 4AM. Enough that we had to pay attention and conserve ammo all night, but not so bad that we feared for complete base destruction (we don't get Demos yet, tho). It felt kind of like the game used to be, where after you got past the Big Bad Wave you'd get pestered for the rest of the night. But instead of 1 or 2 easy Zs you get 4-Zs-per-player at a little bit below the party GS.

 

We liked it.  ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ would massacre again.

[SGriggs]

I play on a dedicated server and get 600 zombies a horde night.  It usually lasts from 10 - 4am.  I have had this since the day 7 horde.  I was told that it was because the map had zombies set to 75 and the server was for 8 players. So im guessing a glitch is sending all the max allowed to me for every player.  If your on a dedicated server try that. I also play 2 hour days so there is a whole 30 minutes of zombie killing on horde night!

 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by SGriggs (see edit history)

[Boidster]

16 hours ago, SGriggs said:

I play on a dedicated server and get 600 zombies a horde night.  It usually lasts from 10 - 4am.  I have had this since the day 7 horde.

 

In that case, your party had made it to gamestage 147 (or higher) by day 7. Which on 2-hour days and with diligent XP hunting might not be all that difficult. The GS147 horde is the first horde where the total possible number of zombies > 600. It is the "num" parameter that determines the total number of possible zombies in each wave. Add 'em up for the total possible zombies on horde night (absent a mod like mine to ensure the wave goes on forever).

 

<gamestage stage="147">
  <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS133" num="207" maxAlive="47" duration="2" interval="20"/>
  <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS140" num="207" maxAlive="47" duration="2" interval="20"/>
  <spawn group="feralHordeStageGS147" num="207" maxAlive="47" duration="7"/>
</gamestage>

 

The full explanation is here, but note that the maxAlive is per player, so if you've got an 8-player horde party, then each wave would send the LESSER of these options all at once (spawning new Zs to keep the queue full as Zs are killed):

 

  A) maxAlive x players = 47 x 8 = 376

  B) "num" value = 207

  C) Server max spawned zombies = 75

  D) Server BloodMoonEnemyCount setting x players = ?? (default setting is 8, so this would be 64)

 

My guess is you got either 64 or 75 zombies at once, until the 207 "bucket" for each wave was killed. With 8 players doing the killing, I'm kind of surprised it would last until 4AM. The duration of the first two waves is 2 in-game hours, so 10 minutes of real time. If each player only kills 3 zombies per minute you'd easily wipe out a 207-zombie wave with time to spare.

 

My 2-player co-op game is past that GS and we finished the normal horde by 1AM or so. Note that the total size of the horde does not change with # of players. Only the # of zombies spawned in at once. My 2-player game and your 8-player game both would need to kill (at most) 621 zombies to complete the GS147 horde night.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Boidster (see edit history)

[SGriggs]

On 4/28/2021 at 12:19 PM, Boidster said:

 

 

My 2-player co-op game is past that GS and we finished the normal horde by 1AM or so. Note that the total size of the horde does not change with # of players. Only the # of zombies spawned in at once. My 2-player game and your 8-player game both would need to kill (at most) 621 zombies to complete the GS147 horde night.

 

It is usually only me on at horde night.  I do have max zombies set to 75.  8 player dedicated server.  I have had as much as 700 kills in  a horde.  I generally record the hordes and check my stats before and after.  it runs literally from bell to bell. Sometimes it is almost 5am before i finally kill the last of the zombies lol.  Definitely makes it fun.  

[Boidster]

16 hours ago, SGriggs said:

It is usually only me on at horde night.  I do have max zombies set to 75.  8 player dedicated server.  I have had as much as 700 kills in  a horde.  I generally record the hordes and check my stats before and after.  it runs literally from bell to bell. Sometimes it is almost 5am before i finally kill the last of the zombies lol.  Definitely makes it fun.  

 

That does sound like fun! To close the loop on my excruciating detail, by GS54 the 3 horde waves have a total possible duration which would last 10P-4A. So if a single player were killing them kinda slowly (at lower GS) or like you trying to mow them down as fast as possible and racking up 700 kills (at high GS with massive quantities of zombies), it easily could last all night.

 

Basically after GS54, all hordes have two 2-hour waves followed by a 7-hour wave. Stuff enough zombies into that 3rd wave and you'll be fighting them all night for sure.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Boidster (see edit history)