Whats wrong with my blood moon

[bachgaman]

Hi

My current game is

Insane (Nightmare) zombies

BM every 5 days

BM limit 64

all other settings is default

We play as two players

got ~75-80 gamestage on day 25, 47-49 levels, 4 deaths each other

 

So i cant understand why the BMs lasts until ~01:45 and then zombies stop spawning

And i dont see any demolishers, only spiders and ferals

 

So it becomes boring

[theFlu]

A little spoilerish, but since you asked..:

Real quick glance at entitygroups.xml shows the first mention of a Demo in a group called "feralHordeStageGS153" .. if things aren't all whack, you'll just need to ramp that XP gain up. It's bound to be a little slower when dealing with the Insane bullet sponges, so getting to 153 takes a while.

 

I don't remember the exact math for group gamestage, but it wasn't a simple addition, added members had a diminished effect on the final score, so you should be close, but somewhat below demo levels..

 

As to why they give up at 2am, well, you've killed them all. Using plenty of traps?

[BFT2020]

Also every time you die, it affects your game stage level.  The game stage is calculated based on the max number of days alive since your last death.  If you had zero deaths, you would have a higher game stage at Day 25.

[bachgaman]

8 minutes ago, theFlu said:

A little spoilerish, but since you asked..:

Real quick glance at entitygroups.xml shows the first mention of a Demo in a group called "feralHordeStageGS153" .. if things aren't all whack, you'll just need to ramp that XP gain up. It's bound to be a little slower when dealing with the Insane bullet sponges, so getting to 153 takes a while.

 

I don't remember the exact math for group gamestage, but it wasn't a simple addition, added members had a diminished effect on the final score, so you should be close, but somewhat below demo levels..

 

As to why they give up at 2am, well, you've killed them all. Using plenty of traps?

thank you for answer

not many traps, just 1 blade trap, 1 electric fence and 1 dart trap

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Also every time you die, it affects your game stage level.  The game stage is calculated based on the max number of days alive since your last death.  If you had zero deaths, you would have a higher game stage at Day 25.

 

 

I know that deaths affect the gamestage, but I didn't know that counts from the last death. On this day I died. Ty

[7daysexpert]

3 hours ago, theFlu said:

A little spoilerish, but since you asked..:

Real quick glance at entitygroups.xml shows the first mention of a Demo in a group called "feralHordeStageGS153" .. if things aren't all whack, you'll just need to ramp that XP gain up. It's bound to be a little slower when dealing with the Insane bullet sponges, so getting to 153 takes a while.

 

I don't remember the exact math for group gamestage, but it wasn't a simple addition, added members had a diminished effect on the final score, so you should be close, but somewhat below demo levels..

 

As to why they give up at 2am, well, you've killed them all. Using plenty of traps?

so in theory im at game stage 132 atm in my game so i should get demos next BM correct also im on day 26 and default difficulty

[uncle.heavy]

7 hours ago, 7daysexpert said:

so in theory im at game stage 132 atm in my game so i should get demos next BM correct also im on day 26 and default difficulty

You would need to raise your gamestage by 21, for SP meaning your level + daysalive would need to rise by 18. Given that you have two days if you play default bloodmoon every 7th day, you would have to level up 16 times without dying in those two days.

I hope I did not overlook something in these morning hours but even with some minor oversight it is quite a feat.

[7daysexpert]

48 minutes ago, uncle.heavy said:

You would need to raise your gamestage by 21, for SP meaning your level + daysalive would need to rise by 18. Given that you have two days if you play default bloodmoon every 7th day, you would have to level up 16 times without dying in those two days.

I hope I did not overlook something in these morning hours but even with some minor oversight it is quite a feat.

unlikely but possible i recently attempted insane but hate bullet sponegs so changed back

[Maharin]

Cranking up your XP modifier for the game will actually make it harder faster.  You could also try that if its easy for you.

[meganoth]

16 hours ago, bachgaman said:

 

I know that deaths affect the gamestage, but I didn't know that counts from the last death. On this day I died. Ty

 

I don't think it does. It may have been this way around alpha 15, but deaths just substract from total days. See the comment near the start of gamestages.xml:
 

Quote

        Every 24 hours GAME time 1 (day) is added.
        On every death "daysAliveChangeWhenKilled" is subtracted from the total.

 

 

 

 

[BFT2020]

42 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I don't think it does. It may have been this way around alpha 15, but deaths just substract from total days. See the comment near the start of gamestages.xml:
 

 

 

Hmmm, I must be confusing this with another game then.  Now I am curious what game has this mechanic I am thinking of.  Ahh, the joy of getting older. 😆

[meganoth]

6 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Hmmm, I must be confusing this with another game then.  Now I am curious what game has this mechanic I am thinking of.  Ahh, the joy of getting older. 😆

 

I remember that WE thought at the time of alpha15 that it worked that way (and that information may have even come from a comment in some xml stating that). I'm just not sure if the game was actually working that way and it changed or whether that was a common misconception that was circling around.

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

 

So I make BM every 2 days and reached day 31, but BM is still weak and still no demolishers. Since then I have not died and have made significant progress.

 

There is clearly something wrong. I have a feeling that zombies pressure on lower difficulty levels was stronger when I played my first games 

 

Zombies were weaker but there were cops and demolishers with them and they attacked more densely and lastingly. Is this possible due to fact that I played on a dedicated server and now just from a client?

 

I remember that I changed some settings in server config to have enemies more or something like that. This time I thought it would be enough to set the blood moon counter to 64

[uncle.heavy]

As for demolishers: 

To reach gamestage 153 that would make them show up, at a day 31 BM in SP you would need a player level of 97.
For the aforementioned MP with two players, player levels of 54 each would be required on said day.
All without any deaths ever, mind you. 

 

Spawning based on GS varies as laid out in gamestages.xml.

A GS 74 BM horde might feel quite a bit more relaxed than a GS 69 one, for example, depending on how you feel about cops.

That is where you can alter values to increase pressure based on individual spawn behaviour to your liking - or simply edit difficultyBonus or startingWeight ( MP only) or diminishingReturns ( MP only) to increase your effective ( party) gamestage. 
In entitygroups.xml you can alter the personnel of the spawns who are referenced in gamestages.xml.
For instance, you could add demolishers to any spawn you like.
I do not know when or how often the groups in these files get auto-generated, so if you feel like editing a lot, I suggest keeping a backup or writing a modlet.

 

I could not tell about a setting in serverconfig.xml or a different feel for dedi and client, respectively.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by uncle.heavy
sentences felt wrong; this wouldnt let me rest (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

8 hours ago, uncle.heavy said:

As for demolishers: 

To reach gamestage 153 that would make them show up, at a day 31 BM in SP you would need a player level of 97.
For the aforementioned MP with two players, player levels of 54 each would be required on said day.
All without any deaths ever, mind you. 

 

Spawning based on GS varies as laid out in gamestages.xml.

A GS 74 BM horde might feel quite a bit more relaxed than a GS 69 one, for example, depending on how you feel about cops.

That is where you can alter values to increase pressure based on individual spawn behaviour to your liking - or simply edit difficultyBonus or startingWeight ( MP only) or diminishingReturns ( MP only) to increase your effective ( party) gamestage. 
In entitygroups.xml you can alter the personnel of the spawns who are referenced in gamestages.xml.
For instance, you could add demolishers to any spawn you like.
I do not know when or how often the groups in these files get auto-generated, so if you feel like editing a lot, I suggest keeping a backup or writing a modlet.

 

I could not tell about a setting in serverconfig.xml or a different feel for dedi and client, respectively.

 

 

Thanks for answer

 

I just don't understand why the difficulty only affects survivability of the zombies, which does not really matter when using traps and explosives during BM defense

Btw i do not really like such excessive flexibility of settings, it kills the atmosphere and challenge, you can make it easier or more difficult on the go, this is bad

[Liesel Weppen]

15 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

I just don't understand why the difficulty only affects survivability of the zombies

It did until A18. The devs set the difficulty modifier which was formerly changed by the difficulty setting to a fixed value.

 

I don't know why they did that. Discussions speculated it interfered with the current ages of the loot system.

 

Further: As others said, DMs only appear if gamestage is higher then a certain level. The above mentioned appearance from gamestage 153 means there is still just (a little) chance demolishers will spawn. If you are lucky (or in your case bored) you can also reach gamestage 165 and still not have seen a single demolisher yet.

If you want to advance quicker (also in gamestage), you should not increase difficulty anymore, but increase XP-gain. If you want the game to advance quicker and Zs being harder, increase both.

 

Since you are two players in a party ( i assume), gamestage afaik is combined like player.gamestage + player2.gamestage * 0.8.
That means both players having a gamestage of 77 is still not engouh, because combined gamestage then only results in 138 or 139 (don't know if it is rounded).

 

If you are not in party, your gamestage will not even be combined. Basically then you are playing separate bloodmoons for each player at those players gamestage. So even lesser high-end-zombies spawning.

 

Don't know your base, but we, also 2 players are fighting the bloodmoons mostly manually usually couldn't manage bloodmoons to run out of Zs before 4am from gamestages like 100. But i assume, with some killing machine bases, it's easy doable anyway.

[meganoth]

37 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

 

Thanks for answer

 

I just don't understand why the difficulty only affects survivability of the zombies, which does not really matter when using traps and explosives during BM defense

Btw i do not really like such excessive flexibility of settings, it kills the atmosphere and challenge, you can make it easier or more difficult on the go, this is bad

gamestage once had a multiplier which increased with difficulty. But now this multiplier is always 1.2 independant of difficulty.

Obviously they didn't like something about that approach and deactivated it.

 

EDIT: Damn, Wiesel Weppen was faster 😉

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

14 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

If you are not in party, your gamestage will not even be combined. Basically then you are playing separate bloodmoons for each player at those players gamestage. So even lesser high-end-zombies spawning.

We play in party

14 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Don't know your base, but we, also 2 players are fighting the bloodmoons mostly manually usually couldn't manage bloodmoons to run out of Zs before 4am from gamestages like 100. But i assume, with some killing machine bases, it's easy doable anyway.

 

No, we just destroy them with shotguns, AK-47s and blow them up with grenades in a narrow passage

On 4/18/2021 at 2:19 AM, bachgaman said:

not many traps, just 1 blade trap, 1 electric fence and 1 dart trap

 

8 minutes ago, meganoth said:

gamestage once had a multiplier which increased with difficulty. But now this multiplier is always 1.2 independant of difficulty.

Obviously they didn't like something about that approach and deactivated it.

 

 

Do developers have gametesters at all?😁

[meganoth]

10 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

We play in party

 

No, we just destroy them with shotguns, AK-47s and blow them up with grenades in a narrow passage

 

 

 

Do developers have gametesters at all?😁

They have a number of testers, for bugs and it seems they also give feedback about gameplay.

 

Furthermore madmole himself as game designer usually plays the game around the time of the release of a new alpha (before that the internal version is rather unplayable). Since A17, when the whole perk system changed to the 5 attributes, he played all attributes except perception AFAIK.

 

As someone else mentioned, they mainly balance difficulty 2 (Nomad?), up from minimum speccs and 1 to 8 players.

 

PS: Except for gamestage calculation there is no difference between single player or multiplayer, local game or game on dedicated server. If there is, it should be a bug.

 

[JCrook1028]

20 hours ago, bachgaman said:

This time I thought it would be enough to set the blood moon counter to 64

Simply changing that possible max limit has no effect until you actually reach a gamestage high enough to activate it.

[bachgaman]

14 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Simply changing that possible max limit has no effect until you actually reach a gamestage high enough to activate it.

 

I know that, but I already have a drill and a gyrocopter, I have automatic shotguns and grenade launchers. I'm already tired of 5th tier quests. At the same time, my blood moon ends at 02:00 and there are no demolishers in it, haha, balance (I remind that I set the highest difficulty level) 

 

I'm already starting to get bored

 

UPD

 

Btw, we have still not died during BM in whole life of this world

Edited April 20, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[Liesel Weppen]

So you are on day ~25, haven't reached a gamestage high enough for demos to appear but are already fully equipped with all weapons, armor, vehicles and have turrets arround and already done several T5 quests (i usually even decline them, because they are highly inefficient).

 

Hmmm, either you are a speedrunning gaming god or you are playing on some wierd settings like 500% loot (or you cheat using dm and cm)

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, bachgaman said:

 

I know that, but I already have a drill and a gyrocopter, I have automatic shotguns and grenade launchers. I'm already tired of 5th tier quests. At the same time, my blood moon ends at 02:00 and there are no demolishers in it, haha, balance (I remind that I set the highest difficulty level) 

 

I'm already starting to get bored

 

UPD

 

Btw, we have still not died during BM in whole life of this world

Do a crafting challenge then.  Only things you can use or sell are items you crafted.  Loot and trader purchases can only be used for parts and raw materials.

[bachgaman]

3 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

So you are on day ~25, haven't reached a gamestage high enough for demos to appear but are already fully equipped with all weapons, armor, vehicles and have turrets arround and already done several T5 quests (i usually even decline them, because they are highly inefficient).

 

Hmmm, either you are a speedrunning gaming god or you are playing on some wierd settings like 500% loot (or you cheat using dm and cm)

yes

100% loot 100% exp

all settings default except difficulty and speed and BM freq, BM Z counter

no cheat

no turrets btw l2 read

Edited April 20, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Do a crafting challenge then.  Only things you can use or sell are items you crafted.  Loot and trader purchases can only be used for parts and raw materials.

I thought about it, but I don't understand why the game doesn't give a challenge.
I think I'll try mods. I've already tried some, its usually difficult.
Although I don't like them in general. I think the vanilla version should be difficult without mods. Especially the amount of settings available

 

Of course, I can still set 0.1% loot and 0.1% experience, but it's an artificial complication like unkillable zombies. I think the difficulty should be not just how many times you need to hit a zombie to kill him and not how many chests you have open to find a grenade launcher

[Liesel Weppen]

11 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

all settings default except difficulty and speed and BM Z counter

Speed?

 

Longer days? Like 120min days? Ok, that would also explain how you can get all the stuff by day 25.