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Light armor rating 6...How much protection is that?


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On 3/1/2021 at 4:09 AM, ElCabong said:

Is that 60 percent?

About three fiddy.

I rock light almost exclusively. Heavy slows you down waaaay too much for my taste, even if you feel bulletproof with a good set of armour. Military is decent, but I wind up using a lot of the fitting mods to make up for the slowdown. Leather seems to be a good medium until about mid/late game, then I have to get military

 

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Makes it easy to observe how a new piece of armor changes your total.

And when you do, it has great potential to bestow one with a confusing lesson about rounding.. :)

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light/heavy armor rating is just a way for the devs to let you know what type of armor it is, so you know which perk to get. 6 armor is 6% damage reduction whether its on light or heavy armor. TLDR: 1 armor is 1% damage reduction up to the cap of 80% or is it 90% max?

On 3/1/2021 at 8:29 AM, theFlu said:

Nope. It's 6%. You add em up for the set, so you'd get 5x6= 30%

 

This is assuming the game does math correctly, which from what I have seen, the game is kinda... stupid when it comes to math at times.

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3 hours ago, Scyris said:

TLDR: 1 armor is 1% damage reduction up to the cap of 80% or is it 90% max?

I think the hard cap is at 90%, wicked hard to reach as well.

 

3 hours ago, Scyris said:

This is assuming the game does math correctly, which from what I have seen, the game is kinda... stupid when it comes to math at times.

Yes, and no.. in general, beware with assuming anything about any given percentage in the game. For armor, I've personally tested it enough to claim that it seems to be implemented as straightforward as it sounds.. seems :)

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On 3/2/2021 at 10:44 PM, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

About three fiddy.

I rock light almost exclusively. Heavy slows you down waaaay too much for my taste, even if you feel bulletproof with a good set of armour. Military is decent, but I wind up using a lot of the fitting mods to make up for the slowdown. Leather seems to be a good medium until about mid/late game, then I have to get military

 

I too rock Leather for a very long time.   In AGI builds you never know when you gotta throw yourself from a third story window and land safely.   Free movement speed is your best friend.

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22 hours ago, Scyris said:

This is assuming the game does math correctly, which from what I have seen, the game is kinda... stupid when it comes to math at times.

 

Armor values are internally calculated with real (==floating point) numbers, not integers. Then when displaying the numbers players see 43 instead of the actual 43.375.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

I too rock Leather for a very long time.   In AGI builds you never know when you gotta throw yourself from a third story window and land safely.   Free movement speed is your best friend.

 

Honestly in vanilla, you can survive with just padded armor for the most part, things don't hit hard enough really on Nomad/warrior difficulties. The point is to not get hit. Mind you when we have infinite ammo aim-bot bandits then i'd worry more, since they can shoot to.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, meganoth said:

real (==floating point) numbers

And there was a sudden shift in the force; like a million mathematicians and programmers joining together for a collective "REEEEEE!" :)

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Interesting; I did not know about that relation. Never cared enough to look up what one point of armor actually does, but am glad to know now.

 

Are there examples on the errants of numerical armor representation?

There seems to a certain amount of dissatisfaction about number handling.

Usually, such occurs when boni and percentages are applied in arbitrary order. Is it that?

Edited by uncle.heavy
Clarification ( hopefully) (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, uncle.heavy said:

Interesting; I did not know about that relation. Never cared enough to look up what one point of armor actually does, but am glad to know now.

 

Are there examples on the errants of numerical armor representation?

There seems to a certain amount of dissatisfaction about number handling.

Usually, such occurs when boni and percentages are applied in arbitrary order. Is it that?

 

From a programming standpoint there is a high potential of cumulative errors creating a much bigger problem than you might think they would otherwise.  For instance, if a value is rounded down to the nearest whole number (truncated or floor are terms some languages use) and then multiplied by X you could be off by nearly as much as X after the multiplication.  But if you multiply the original value (not rounded) by X first and then round it down you will only be off by at most 1.  This is a very simple example.  :p

 

Rounding happens frequently because integers are historically a lot faster to manipulate on a computer than floating point numbers are.  This is much less the case today than it was even 10 years ago, for what it's worth.

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Numerical just means that if you have

1 hour ago, uncle.heavy said:

Interesting; I did not know about that relation. Never cared enough to look up what one point of armor actually does, but am glad to know now.

 

Are there examples on the errants of numerical armor representation?

There seems to a certain amount of dissatisfaction about number handling.

Usually, such occurs when boni and percentages are applied in arbitrary order. Is it that?

 

It is not. But since the order isn't immediately apparent in the game lots of people make up their own theories and are then surprised if it works differently.  The journal may even explain some of it already, but nobody reads it.

 

Each piece of armor gets a random armor value on creation. Since the armor you wear is summed up and then shown to you as an integer you might notice something strange from time to time: You add an armor with value 5 and your total armor increases by 6. If you saw the actual floating point values you wouldn't be surprised.

 

How percentages are applied I can show you with weapons: All percentages applied to the damage value are applied to the base damage. Simple and consistent. Or equivalently you can just assume that all percentages are summed up and that result is applied to base damage.

 

All boni are percentages. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether damage of the bullet or arrow is added to the base damage of a ranged weapon before or after percentages. But that can be found out easily.

 

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On 3/4/2021 at 2:55 PM, Ramethzer0 said:

I too rock Leather for a very long time.   In AGI builds you never know when you gotta throw yourself from a third story window and land safely.   Free movement speed is your best friend.

Padded with armour mods is a solid for a long time as well. 

Parkour is a solid go to for me, frequently. The ability to jump over zombies can get you out of a bind.

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4 hours ago, Lenny Lettuce Lips said:

Padded with armour mods is a solid for a long time as well. 

Parkour is a solid go to for me, frequently. The ability to jump over zombies can get you out of a bind.

Padded armour looks terrifyingly bad, and there's no way I'm going to die looking like I duct taped a shower mat to my chest.  😕

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1 hour ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Padded armour looks terrifyingly bad, and there's no way I'm going to die looking like I duct taped a shower mat to my chest.  😕

 

Think of it this way... if the zombies get you there won't be anything left to take pictures of, so no evidence of your lack of fashion will survive your departure from this world.

 

Happy thoughts.

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12 hours ago, meganoth said:

All percentages applied to the damage value are applied to the base damage.

You made me test, now we all get to suffer. My results in spoiler don't exactly line up:

Spoiler

Hawaiian feral: 570 HP
Random Quality 5 Pistol (42 tooltip damage)

1/10 agi, 0/5 pistols

Body: 42
Head: 84 (200%)
Aok!

10/10 agi, 0/5 pistols

Body: 42
Head: 126 (300%)
Aok!

10/10 agi, 5/5 pistols ("50% more damage")

Body: 58 (58 / 42) = 1.38
Prediction: 42 * 1.5 = 63
Rounding worst case included: 41 * 1.5 = 61.5 => 61
Errh?!

Head: 174 (174 / 58 = 300%, aok)

 

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Which teaches us that the bonus damage is calculated from the damage stated on the ammunition loaded and added to the base damage of the loaded weapon.

A bit surprising, but claims to mathematical inadequacy seem a bit far-fetched.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, uncle.heavy said:

A bit surprising, but claims to mathematical inadequacy seem a bit far-fetched.

I'll agree, but I'll also agree with the original claim of "kinda stupid" ... :)

 

So, essentially for those four variables it would be something like:

((Ammo_Damage * Gun_Skill_Multiplier + "Gun_damage?") * Headshot_Skill_Multiplier)

 

I'm not going to guess where I should insert the 10% from a book series.. or Mod damage for that matter.

 

EDIT: No wait, Ammo/Gun backwards...

EDIT_2: Went to check if that's valid .. 9mm ammo, normal vs AP gives 32 and 41 damage, while the gun gives 42 and 55 while loaded respectively, differences of 9 and 13. I yield.

Edited by theFlu (see edit history)
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Pretty sure book percentages and mod percentages would be added to gun-skill percentages.

 

And I would have thought headshot percentages would be like all other percentages too. That they have this special role and are applied after adding gun damage is a surprise.

Makes it a bit more complicated, but you are all aware you are playing an RPG and not a simple shooter, right?

 

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Nothing wrong in it being complicated, I've merely shown it is somewhat unpredictable, I even managed to surprise you with a 10 minute test of the simplest case possible. I ain't doing no guessing with this for a sample... :)

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47 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Pretty sure book percentages and mod percentages would be added to gun-skill percentages.

 

And I would have thought headshot percentages would be like all other percentages too. That they have this special role and are applied after adding gun damage is a surprise.

Makes it a bit more complicated, but you are all aware you are playing an RPG and not a simple shooter, right?

 

You should start advertising with the tag line "not a simple shooter".

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3 hours ago, theFlu said:

Nothing wrong in it being complicated, I've merely shown it is somewhat unpredictable, I even managed to surprise you with a 10 minute test of the simplest case possible. I ain't doing no guessing with this for a sample... :)

The things I don't know or have forgotten about this game could fill books 😉

I'm not one of those players who analyzes damage/DPS in all details, so there is a lot of stuff I never checked out directly. The info about weapon damage I gave above is just information I read here in the forum.

 

2 hours ago, uncle.heavy said:

You should start advertising with the tag line "not a simple shooter".

Comon misconception to think moderators are TFP employees. Me advertising and selling the game would be grounds for a law suit 😎

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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