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Zombies and basebuilding


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So I started playing again after some time. First I had much fun with all the new content. But then, on bloodmoon, the zombies came and attacked my base. I have a moat around it, 6 blocks wide and 40 blocks deep. My base is in the middle of it and below it. The moat (inner and outer walls) is made of pure concrete. So the zombies came, saw the moat, turned around and dug all the way down, below my walls, under my moat, under my base, entered through my mine from below and attacked me from behind. 

 

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY STUPID!!!

 

Why do they do this. It makes the whole basebuilding-thing absolutely unnecessary. Why don't you just make all bases vanish at bloodmoon or just remove all this building nonsense if you don't want players to hide behind concrete walls. For me, you killed the whole game. Why have you done this? A game should be funny. In my opinion, you try all you can to kill people in game and try to make your game win all the time at any cost. Please let the zombies just what they should be. Bloodthirsty, stupid monsters that walk straight towards their prey trying to eat it. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, oeffi said:

So the zombies came, saw the moat, turned around and dug all the way down, below my walls, under my moat, under my base, entered through my mine from below and attacked me from behind.

Lol, never read about such a case, but may be plausible.

 

Zs magically know every block on the map. So they also know that there is a mine shaft underneath that makes a way to the player. So with this allmighty knowledge, Zs calculate a way with least resistance to the player.

So if the mine shaft was only few dirt blocks below and the rest of the way to the player completely free, this might turn out as the easier path than going through your concrete walls, with maybe additional spikes or whatever.

Especially the moat could have been the reason, because if they fell down, they had to dig anyway. I guess falling 40 blocks down is not a valid route for the path calculation. So if your base was completely surrounded by that moat, the ONLY way left Zs can take, IS to dig at least to the ground of the moat. And then they probably will dig your whole basement away, as afaik Zs can't dig up.

 

Of course you can also take advantage of this behaviour. That's basically what alle the cheese base layouts do.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)
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Yeah, Zambies have been schoolin' themselves in the meantime :) Nowadays it's better to leave them a way to you and pile defenses in that "corridor" to mow them down.

 

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I am hoping the zombie intelligence selector in A20 allows the A16-style zombie to make a comeback!  Loved making bases back then and not knowing where they were going to attack!  Loving A19 but its definitely a different experience regarding horde-night.

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18 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Lol, never read about such a case, but may be plausible.

 

Zs magically know every block on the map. So they also know that there is a mine shaft underneath that makes a way to the player. So with this allmighty knowledge, Zs calculate a way with least resistance to the player.

So if the mine shaft was only few dirt blocks below and the rest of the way to the player completely free, this might turn out as the easier path than going through your concrete walls, with maybe additional spikes or whatever.

Especially the moat could have been the reason, because if they fell down, they had to dig anyway. I guess falling 40 blocks down is not a valid route for the path calculation. So if your base was completely surrounded by that moat, the ONLY way left Zs can take, IS to dig at least to the ground of the moat. And then they probably will dig your whole basement away, as afaik Zs can't dig up.

 

Of course you can also take advantage of this behaviour. That's basically what alle the cheese base layouts do.

The mine shaft and the base core were all on bedrock level. I dug down to bedrock, built my base like a tower from bedrock to about 20 Blocks above ground and just removed the dirt around it. (Base is about 40 blocks deep at bedrock, moat about 30 blocks, so that I can still dig mineshafts from my base without leaving it) So my base looks like a giant tower into a big hole. That means, they dug all the way down to bedrock to get around my walls and into my base. In the beginning I had a ladder going down the moat and every zombie walked around the moat to climb down the ladder. That's not the way zombies should behave. I don't like the devs to kill the game just to make players life harder. 

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11 minutes ago, oeffi said:

The mine shaft and the base core were all on bedrock level. I dug down to bedrock, built my base like a tower from bedrock to about 20 Blocks above ground and just removed the dirt around it. (Base is about 40 blocks deep at bedrock, moat about 30 blocks, so that I can still dig mineshafts from my base without leaving it) So my base looks like a giant tower into a big hole. That means, they dug all the way down to bedrock to get around my walls and into my base. In the beginning I had a ladder going down the moat and every zombie walked around the moat to climb down the ladder. That's not the way zombies should behave. I don't like the devs to kill the game just to make players life harder. 

Can you send us a screenshot? I enjoy seeing cool bases and discussing designs..

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Well, you have learned now that this particular base design does not work for horde night. Maybe the design is flawed in general, maybe there is just a small mistake that can easily be fixed to make the Zs take another path next time. For example make the underground stronger than the walls so the Zs will definitely knock against the walls and not start digging.

 

Isn't this trial and error route part of the game?

 

I mean for your case, you build a stronghold with an undefended backdoor into it and then complain when the Zs don't tear down your walls but rather take the easy path through the backdoor. Come on :D

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1 hour ago, oeffi said:

The mine shaft and the base core were all on bedrock level. I dug down to bedrock, built my base like a tower from bedrock to about 20 Blocks above ground and just removed the dirt around it. (Base is about 40 blocks deep at bedrock, moat about 30 blocks, so that I can still dig mineshafts from my base without leaving it) So my base looks like a giant tower into a big hole. That means, they dug all the way down to bedrock to get around my walls and into my base. In the beginning I had a ladder going down the moat and every zombie walked around the moat to climb down the ladder. That's not the way zombies should behave. I don't like the devs to kill the game just to make players life harder. 

 

The meta-game in 7d2d is to observe the zombies and adapt.

 

In your case I would extend the moat to bedrock and coat the mine shaft through the moat and for ~40 blocks outward with concrete. You don't even need to make the wall between moat and your base out of concrete, just the lowest ~5 blocks. If that still doesn't work you might add lots of doors to the mine shaft as well, or change the mine shaft to a trap-filled funnel and use it to your advantage. Or maybe you have a better idea? Try it out. Don't give up yet.

 

You have a choice here:

A) built your own ideas (which I very much recommend) but then don't expect that it works wonderfully the first time. Zombies often find "holes" or weaknesses in my first drafts of horde bases. The fun is then to find a way to close those holes.  If ANY design automatically works, where is the fun in that?

 

B) take the boring route and copy designs off the web. Safe and you know it works. And boring as hell.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Zombies usually only dig when they detect a player below them. I'd be interested to know your positions during the bloodmoon. If you were underground below your moat then with their feral sense they would dig down and then over to where you were. Now if you guys were all topside above the level of the moat then it does seem weird to me that they would dig.

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10 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

Well, you have learned now that this particular base design does not work for horde night. Maybe the design is flawed in general, maybe there is just a small mistake that can easily be fixed to make the Zs take another path next time. For example make the underground stronger than the walls so the Zs will definitely knock against the walls and not start digging.

 

Isn't this trial and error route part of the game?

 

I mean for your case, you build a stronghold with an undefended backdoor into it and then complain when the Zs don't tear down your walls but rather take the easy path through the backdoor. Come on :D

In my case, the "backdoor" are just about 50 blocks of earth, stone and ore. So it isn't really a backdoor. And, besides this, I really don't like these digging zombies. 

5 hours ago, Roland said:

Zombies usually only dig when they detect a player below them. I'd be interested to know your positions during the bloodmoon. If you were underground below your moat then with their feral sense they would dig down and then over to where you were. Now if you guys were all topside above the level of the moat then it does seem weird to me that they would dig.

I have been in my base looking into the moat. The base of the moat is  ramp and I was 6 blocks above the ground of the moat, looking down. (the ground of the moat is made of 1 concrete block, 5 ramp-tiles and another block of concrete, so that the zeds fall a little bit longer and have to walk up to me. )

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What you propose would basically make your base impervious to blood moon barring them going through the whole bottom inner wall and collapsing your base. I don't know why you would want that.

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I almost called troll topic.

 

But anyways. The game hasnt been "killed" on any way. If anything, they extended its life span by rising the challenge to build better bases. Its also a survival game and usually, most game of the genre have infinite progression until you get killed. You're not supposed to "win". You only borrow time. And lastly, one of the core concept of 7DtD is that after 7 days, zombies get ultra-sentient and mystically become aware of your presence no matter what you do, like sharks smelling you bleeding through huge lengths in water.

 

Is it that blood-tinted moon? Who knows. Its the apocalypse and no one can answer this. You just have to fight. Facing the fatality of the situation is what makes this game thrilling and one of the main reason why its still getting enormous success. I personally wish to have a setting that generate completely random Blood Moons, that can happen anytime, on day one or 63, without warning.

 

But you would like to have it easy and "win"?. You think that you can have the perfect base and chill in it while the horde exhausts itself banging on the walls? Not gonna happen! Or you'll just make it longer until they reach you. Or you run out of resources. Whatever. Maybe when they add a proper story mode, you'll have a finite goal. Until then, you better put the game down and play something else if you're so pissed that the game follows exactly the design upon which it was made : you cant run eternally and you will eventually die 😄

Edited by Kyonshi (see edit history)
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Don't use your main base as your horde base.  Not anymore.  (not since A16)

 

Zeds are smart and stupid. Not stupid smart. There IS a difference.

 

Passive defenses won't cut it anymore, as they will bore  a path through, dig around etc.

Leave them what looks like a way to you, and they WILL take it. 

Fun can be had with this though.  :D

 

(yes, there is such a thing as overkill for the defenses too. So far, nothing has made it through the 60 dart trap Temple of Doom!)

(and that does get kinda boring for a stream)

 

 

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I appreciate the AI improvements quite a bit. It makes you really get creative and requires you to think about all aspects and angles. I happen to love tower defense and base building games, so the fact that the AI is getting better and making it harder is a win in my book.

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I don't really like it, but now a days you need 2 bases.

 

A crafting base and a blood moon base.

 

I'm not the best zombie fighter, I usually end up running/hiding till dawn.

 

- P

 

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On 2/5/2021 at 6:10 PM, pahbi said:

I don't really like it, but now a days you need 2 bases.

 

A crafting base and a blood moon base.

 

I'm not the best zombie fighter, I usually end up running/hiding till dawn.

 

- P

 

Yep, can confirm this.  I've posted many times asking for how to survive the horde nights and tried many base designs with active player defense.

 

Anymore, I just run on foot and can usually outrun everything pretty easily.   (Although you can't use a vehicle, as acid spitting vultures will instantly spawn and speed up to hit you on it in very large numbers.)   Overall, I've just kind of given up on the horde nights.  They're too gimicky for how frequent they are:   constantly respawning zombies, no downtime or real "waves" at all, will spawn out of literally no where and often right in front of you,  can't hide, they are extremely smart (which is odd for a damn zombie),  they destroy steel/concrete and other things so fast, demolishers will take out half your base in one explosion, cops spit acid constantly, usually go through more ammo than I can effectively remake.

 

Overall, horde nights just aren't fun which I feel is the crux of the issue for me.  The only real way to defeat them it seems is to have a kill base (like Galaxy Brain or Processor) or try running/gunning (which I hate).   A lot of blade traps, dart traps and electrical wires.   Sure, it's great for XP if you can fight and have enough ammo, but besides that it's just an annoyance.

Edited by Tohskrad (see edit history)
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Zombies will not willingly/knowingly take fall damage anymore (i don't remember when it was changed, maybe a15) so by making a deep moat you left them only one way to get to your base and they took it.

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On 2/6/2021 at 1:10 AM, pahbi said:

I don't really like it, but now a days you need 2 bases.

 

A crafting base and a blood moon base.

 

I'm not the best zombie fighter, I usually end up running/hiding till dawn.

 

- P

 

It can work with only one Base but is risky :D I like that challenge to build just 1 Base with all my stuff in it and try to make it zombie proof. Even trying to get my farm on top of the base and try get it safe. It's totally possible and adds a challenge to it.

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Zeds should take awarness of the player into concideration while looking for path. If there is an easy path to the player, but at that path they would loose awerness of the player (because its undergroud), they should see that path as the hardest, not the easiest.

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13 hours ago, Z-B said:

Zombies will not willingly/knowingly take fall damage anymore (i don't remember when it was changed, maybe a15) so by making a deep moat you left them only one way to get to your base and they took it.

Since A17 I have been building bases with fall damage multiple times and they work great. In early A17 at least they would be hard to "convince" to take the fall, but this was changed sometime later. Now they tend to jump without hesitation when you are at same height. If you are lower you might have to "concrete off" any alternatives but I haven't tested that lately.

 

The fall damage per single fall is limited to 1/3rd of a zombies health, by the way.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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