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Please Buff Iron Gut


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Hello! First off, absolutely in love with your game. Me and my girlfriend have several thousand hours between us. 

The request I would like to make, would be to buff Iron gut? As it stands, when I play with my girlfriend and friends, I need to be CONSTANTLY searching for animals and food. Like, literally all the time. With a group of five players, it's just impossible to keep them fed. 

I was hoping you could make iron gut reduce food and water loss to about 50% of normal (so it takes twice as long to empty), then another 25% (so 50% total) reduction from physical exertion. All from the Iron gut perk. I get those numbers may seem high, but it honestly ruins the game for us. We can't build, craft or anything as all of our time is spent going towards food. If you don't care about dying, I'm sure there's no problem, but I run a series where if I die we reset the world. We play on insane, and I haven't died yet (A couple hundred hours in), but I can't do anything but search for food.

It's not about my custom rules, though. It just isn't fun to be constantly looking for food and having everyone complain all the time. It's just way too quick.

Even when you're level 100, you need multiple hobo stews to fill, and they empty within about 20/30 minutes of playing.

I hope to hear from you, love the game,
Many thanks, 
Peter 

Edited by Peter Colivet (see edit history)
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I also feel like the food and water usage is way too high. As it stands, we need to constantly have food cooking in a firepit, and people are still dying from hunger - despite hobo and meat stew being given out. I would have thought by end game it'd be less of an issue, but it isn't. 

 

Agreed on the need for a buff.

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16 hours ago, Peter Colivet said:

Even when you're level 100, you need multiple hobo stews to fill

If you are almost starving, you need 3.

 

16 hours ago, Peter Colivet said:

and they empty within about 20/30 minutes of playing.

So with a default setting of a 60min day, you have to eat 2-3 times a day.

 

Survival is still an aspect of the game.

I'm playing with 6 others, and i'm the farmer and master chef. Another player is the hunter and usually goes to hunt for one day a week and returns with 7-8 stacks of meat.

Yes, i spend half my playtime caring and harvesting our farm and cooking. But because of that the other 6 players have 24/7 time to do other stuff, except the hunter, he only has 6 days per week time for other stuff. That's one advantage of multiplayer.

Imho that is acceptable balanced.

 

If you dislike the survival-aspect of the game, i suggest looking for a mod, that increases the value of iron gut and/or increases food amounts spent by different foods.

I assume, increasing the food given by a hobo stew from default 64 to e.g. 120 is just changing one number in an xml. So probably you may be even able to do it yourself.

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So, you need to eat 3 massive stews a day. I don't know about you, but I'm 250lbs and I don't eat nearly that much. 

Stew for breakfast, stew for lunch and stew for dinner. That isn't realistic, no matter how you attempt to make it seem so. Nor do games need to be 'realistic' I suppose, it just isn't fun to be constantly making food, then having to immediately go look for animals, just to start cooking again. Every member of my group has tried filling that role, and they all say the same. As do others I've spoken to, who I don't play with. They say the same. 

Also, you've just confirmed that for those playing solo, they'd literally not be able to play. Hunting and cooking would take 100% of their time. What about those who don't have 8 friends to do so? It needs balancing. 

It's also not the amount of food that stew gives you that I'm suggesting they change. I'm talking about how quickly it goes down. You have to be *constantly* looking for animals, then returning to cook, then eat, then do the same for your friends. It just absorbs one of the players completely. As I said earlier, if you're solo or even duo's, you're screwed. You literally can't spend any time building or questing. 

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58 minutes ago, Peter Colivet said:

So, you need to eat 3 massive stews a day. I don't know about you, but I'm 250lbs and I don't eat nearly that much. 

There is no hint how much such a stew is.

 

Quote

Also, you've just confirmed that for those playing solo, they'd literally not be able to play. Hunting and cooking would take 100% of their time.

Nope with 7 players total, i spend FIFTY % of my time to feed SEVEN players.

If playing solo, you don't have to feed 6 others!

I also play singleplayer and except the first few days food is ABSOLUTELY NO issue. You see animals when traveling to quests or exploring, just take them. I NEVER needed to search explizit for animals. Canned food comes by looting and buying from vending machines. The rest comes from your own garden. Food in masses... i already sell meat to the traders.

 

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)
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I'm going to assume, you and everyone else is taking a lot of hits (plus you're playing on insane) and have invested points into healing factor?
If so, that is the reason you're getting hungry so fast, healing factor uses your food for passive healing.

 

I have the opposite issue and have too much food stored by the end of the second horde night.

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15 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I'm going to assume, you and everyone else is taking a lot of hits (plus you're playing on insane) and have invested points into healing factor?
If so, that is the reason you're getting hungry so fast, healing factor uses your food for passive healing.

 

I have the opposite issue and have too much food stored by the end of the second horde night.


Nope, not many hits. As I said, several thousand hours and playing on insane, I've learned to be able to avoid getting hit most 95% of the time. I do have healing factor maxed, but I do play melee hand to hand. I heal by hitting the zombies, so healing factor shouldn't even play into that. Punching zombies, and sprinting just eats away at the food. I can't understand why it'd be the same for the others, they're all using guns. 

 

 

On 12/16/2020 at 7:05 PM, Liesel Weppen said:

There is no hint how much such a stew is.

 

Nope with 7 players total, i spend FIFTY % of my time to feed SEVEN players.

If playing solo, you don't have to feed 6 others!

I also play singleplayer and except the first few days food is ABSOLUTELY NO issue. You see animals when traveling to quests or exploring, just take them. I NEVER needed to search explizit for animals. Canned food comes by looting and buying from vending machines. The rest comes from your own garden. Food in masses... i already sell meat to the traders.

 


Of course there's a hint, it's the most filling meal in the game. Consisting of several portions of meat, veggies and the like. 

I don't know why this has seemingly upset you so much. 

I and several others I've spoken to, just feel you burn through it way too quickly. Punching, sprinting, healing as that other dude said, and I just have to carry stacks of stew, and spend a huge amount of time harvesting and cooking. Just isn't fun. I want to actually be able to dedicate time toward crafting, building and questing.

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3 minutes ago, Peter Colivet said:


Nope, not many hits. As I said, several thousand hours and playing on insane, I've learned to be able to avoid getting hit most 95% of the time. I do have healing factor maxed, but I do play melee hand to hand. I heal by hitting the zombies, so healing factor shouldn't even play into that. Punching zombies, and sprinting just eats away at the food. I can't understand why it'd be the same for the others, they're all using guns. 

 

Ahh, I've never used fists myself but I've heard from others that ANY passive healing drains food, including the healing from punching. If that is true, then that'll explain your food drain. Sprinting drains hardly any food. As for the other players, perhaps they're taking hits and have healing factor?

Do a quick test next time you're playing. Punch a dozen zombies with full health and keep an eye on your food bar. Then do the same with health missing.

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3 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

 

Ahh, I've never used fists myself but I've heard from others that ANY passive healing drains food, including the healing from punching. If that is true, then that'll explain your food drain. Sprinting drains hardly any food. As for the other players, perhaps they're taking hits and have healing factor?

Do a quick test next time you're playing. Punch a dozen zombies with full health and keep an eye on your food bar. Then do the same with health missing.


Will do pal, I'll put my findings here and edit them into the original post, too. Cheers :) 

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11 hours ago, Peter Colivet said:

I don't know why this has seemingly upset you so much.

It didn't upset me. I've just have a different opinion on that. For me it's good balanced. I don't need to spend all my time searching for food. Yes, you need to eat three times a day and then maybe even more than only one meal, but the effort to get them is also low.

Why are you seemingly upset, just because i don't agree an what you say?

 

I don't understand what some of you guys are doing, but with ONE stack of 10 stews (even just meat stews, not necessarrily gumbo stew) i have enough food for 3 days easily.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/15/2020 at 7:01 PM, Peter Colivet said:

Even when you're level 100, you need multiple hobo stews to fill, and they empty within about 20/30 minutes of playing.


Rotten flesh is wasteland gold IMO. I never turn it into stew because it's either going into Farm Plots, or I have so many Farm Plots that I'm making better things than Hobo Stew.
 

Food was tight early this playthrough with my friend, but I felt it was just about right. Not to hard, too easy. I survived off vending machines and focused on building up a farm ASAP. The one skill point for 2x harvest yield is well worth it, and I invested the harvest back into seeds until it was sustainable (about six plots of each crop). We are eating a ton of high level food every day now without a lot of work to maintain it. 


Obviously there's a limit on vending machines/traders if you have more people that play in one group which makes that part harder early on, but you should also be able to search through places faster and get a farm going sooner, no?

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9 hours ago, Peter Colivet said:

So, found others online that think the food usage was/is way too high. 

Hope this shows that it's not just me and my group.

It doesn't show anything. You can always find people that are "against" if you just search long enough. And even if you find "some" it's still not a majority.

It's a game, not a wish list. YOU have to adept your gamestyle to the game, not make the game work like YOU want to play.

 

What you are looking for is called "mod". That changes iron gut to your preferences (easily). No reason to change it for everybody. Be happy, 7d2d supports such kind of custom changes. Then do a custom change, no reason to request a "global" change.

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@Peter Colivet : Could you post some actual numbers about your food consumption? I.e. tell us your current level. Then make a test and measure over lets say 3 ingame days how much food you need (starting at full and being full again at the end of the 3 days).

 

Also please tell us the number of farm plots you have and what level of "living off the land" your "farmer" has.

 

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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On 12/30/2020 at 5:44 AM, Liesel Weppen said:

It doesn't show anything. You can always find people that are "against" if you just search long enough. And even if you find "some" it's still not a majority.

It's a game, not a wish list. YOU have to adept your gamestyle to the game, not make the game work like YOU want to play.

 

What you are looking for is called "mod". That changes iron gut to your preferences (easily). No reason to change it for everybody. Be happy, 7d2d supports such kind of custom changes. Then do a custom change, no reason to request a "global" change.


Lol dude, chill out. It's in alpha, this is exactly what this time is for. 
I also didn't search, I asked one question and got several people replying saying the same thing. 

 

On 12/30/2020 at 4:38 AM, Lemmers said:


Rotten flesh is wasteland gold IMO. I never turn it into stew because it's either going into Farm Plots, or I have so many Farm Plots that I'm making better things than Hobo Stew.
 

Food was tight early this playthrough with my friend, but I felt it was just about right. Not to hard, too easy. I survived off vending machines and focused on building up a farm ASAP. The one skill point for 2x harvest yield is well worth it, and I invested the harvest back into seeds until it was sustainable (about six plots of each crop). We are eating a ton of high level food every day now without a lot of work to maintain it. 


Obviously there's a limit on vending machines/traders if you have more people that play in one group which makes that part harder early on, but you should also be able to search through places faster and get a farm going sooner, no?


Again, it's not the issue of having enough units of food to survive. It's the frequency with which I need to be harvesting, farming, cooking and dishing it out. As soon as I've finished a batch, I get like ten minutes of questing, then someone needs to eat again. And who, eats four stews a night? I'm massive in real life, and a single stew will do me fine, with a bowl of cereal in the morning. Clearly I'm not out fighting every day of my life, but I am a heavyweight boxer. You don't need to eat that much.

 

On 12/30/2020 at 1:38 PM, meganoth said:

@Peter Colivet : Could you post some actual numbers about your food consumption? I.e. tell us your current level. Then make a test and measure over lets say 3 ingame days how much food you need (starting at full and being full again at the end of the 3 days).

 

Also please tell us the number of farm plots you have and what level of "living off the land" your "farmer" has.

 

 

 


Absolutely! I am the hunter and the farmer. Living off the land is maxed. 

Level 128 (Me) Level 85, 83, 77, 68 and two 55's. 

100% full, with running around and occasional punching and even more occasional healing, I need 3 hobo stew's a day cycle, and another in the night. That's just me. Fairly consistent for the three day period, tested this four times. Sometimes I need an extra stew if I've taken a beating, that dude earlier was right about the healing. 

Again, it's not about having not enough hobo stews. It's about how quickly you burn it. I can make a stack of stews, everyone has two or three on them, but then I'm back to the farm, back to hunting, back to cooking. *Constantly* needing to eat. Only gives me around ten minutes of play time per day to actually do anything. 

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I haven't quite figured out how food consumption works. I've found it to be very inconsistent.  I've restarted a few times recently. There are times where 30 "food points" seems to last me a day and a half or more. Then there are times where I burn 50+ food before noon.  Have not been able to find a consistent correlation. 

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13 minutes ago, Axonius said:

I haven't quite figured out how food consumption works. I've found it to be very inconsistent.  I've restarted a few times recently. There are times where 30 "food points" seems to last me a day and a half or more. Then there are times where I burn 50+ food before noon.  Have not been able to find a consistent correlation. 

It depends on how much stamina you use. If you travel a lot on foot or on a bike, or work in the mine with a pickaxe, or fight a lot in close combat, then you consume a lot of stamina, which is regenerated through food consumption.

1 hour ago, Peter Colivet said:

Again, it's not the issue of having enough units of food to survive. It's the frequency with which I need to be harvesting, farming, cooking and dishing it out. As soon as I've finished a batch, I get like ten minutes of questing, then someone needs to eat again. And who, eats four stews a night? I'm massive in real life, and a single stew will do me fine, with a bowl of cereal in the morning. Clearly I'm not out fighting every day of my life, but I am a heavyweight boxer. You don't need to eat that much.

It is true that the food consumption is not realistic but neither is the growth rate of the plants.

 

To be fair, food consumption has been worse. In A17 you had to be at max food all the time because you quickly fell below the limits where hunger had an effect on your stamina.
 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)
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Ok. I made the following test:

I used a test game, turned difficulty to warrior. Boosted my level, so I had gamestage 194. Got myself a steel sledgehammer, a .44 desert vulture, a motorbike and a full set of steel armor, plus urban combat books 6 and 7. Learned Skull Crusher, SexRex, heavy armour and pack mule to max. Also gunslinger and run and gun. I did not learn any Iron Gut!

 

Then I got a lvl1 quest 380m away from the trader (one of the mansards). Noted down time and food value. Drove to the quest building and meleed and ran my way through the building, opening every container but taking nothing (so no time wasted with inventory management at all). Drove back to the front of the trader and noted time and food value again. No time wasted with the trader himself.

It took me 2 hours and 30 minutes ingame and 14 food. If we calculate with 18 hours daytime that would mean I used up 100.8 food or 1.5 hobo stew.

 

Then I did the same while using the desert vulture (this time I activated the quest marker, so I got the building in pristine condition again). This time I needed 2 hours and 20 minutes and used up 6 food. Which would be a food consumption of 46 for a full 18 hours day, or 2/3rds of a hobo stew

 

So a few questions to you:

 

1) Are you playing with 90 real time minutes per day? If yes, that could partly explain your much higher food consumption. If not, it must either be because of insane instead of warrior difficulty or you are wasting food somewhere you didn't think of.

 

2) Are you often encumbered, run around in heavy armour without having learned the HeavyArmour perk at least to 3 or are you hot or freezing? Or are you traveling by foot instead of using a vehicle?

 

--------------------------

 

 

My conclusions from the test:

I used the worst case for stamina, a sledgehammer. But my gamestage may have been less than yours and I didn't play insane. I got a mix of normal, feral and glowies.

 

Also using ranged combat or a mix of ranged and melee would save a lot of food.

 

I also checked the available food in the game. In my SP and MP games we usually find so many food cans that we can produce stacks of dishes that give >50 food. A lot of them don't need any meat. So you can reduce having to hunt by collecting and buying food cans and producing those dishes. If even that is too much, there is vegetable stew.

 

I usually do cooking in the night (if I am the cook in the group or in SP) and harvesting the farm usually takes a few minutes every 3 hours realtime. If all the rest of your time is spent with hunting animals you should reduce your dependancy on meat.

EDIT: I assume you already know that hunting in the snow biome gets you 10 times as much meat and animal fat than in the forest.

 

I suspect you will not get much help from the developers 1) You are playing on insane, the devs balance for nomad. 2) They probably balance for groups who distribute the workload, not for groups where only one player supplies the rest. 3) This is the first time I can remember someone saying he has food problems in late game.

 

-----------------------------

 

Lastly,

the meat icons as well as the stew icons are misleading. In alpha 15 a stag got you (I think) 5 pieces of meat, now it gives 30 pieces of meat. And I don't think the icon changed in any way. The stag did not increase 6 fold in size though, just the pieces of meat got smaller and you need more per dish 4 instead of 1 per meat stew for example. Icons tell you what something is, not how big for example.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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I actually like this aspect of survival where it can affect you dynamically during a sticky situation and affect the outcome,  if not properly managed. I preferred to eat glass for a while starting out, when I first started but I think I can reliably feed 3 people now, but it is a bit of a struggle early/mid game, which is fine IMO.
 

I’d say you’d need at least 2 if not 3 to help with the food coffers, so  one does not get burnt out doing one chore, and  can actually have more time to enjoy other parts of the game.

 

Please don’t buff iron gut, however there should be more food recipes. One mod you would enjoy  , OP, is  https://7daystodiemods.com/more-vanilla-foods-drinks/

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@meganoth

 

Another data point for you from my game play

 

Settings

-Survivalist

-60 min days (18 hours daylight)

-Str/Int build - 3 ranks in master chef, 1 rank in living off the land, 1 rank in self healing, 3 ranks in sex rex, 1 rank in the hunter perk for more meat and one in the perk to find small animals, no perks in iron gut

Start of study - Day 33, level 40, gamestage 73

End of study - Day 36, level 42

 

SP

 

Day 1 - Tier IV mission, looted another building after the mission and turned in

Day 2 - Same as Day 1

Day 3 - horde base upgrades, quick loot, horde night fight (64 enemies)

 

Primary wpn - sledgehammer, use pistol and shotgun if overwhelmed, mostly power attacks

 

Missions / looting - clear building first (walking and power attacks), the run through looting, salvaging, motorcycle to get between locations

 

2 plots of blueberries, one of pumpkin, 1 of potato, and 4 for corn

 

Food usage over those 3 days

1 blueberry pie

2 chili dogs

2 fish tacos

1 gumbo

 

I also ate 2 chicken rations, 1 chicken soup, 1 can of pears and cat food that I found during looting

 

I had normals, ferals, and glowies during my 3 days.  I don’t eat canned foods that I can turn into higher tier foods early in game unless I desperately need it.  I will also buy the canned goods for receipes from vending machines and traders(only if I am short on a specific canned food).

 

In the 6 hours at night, I have plenty of time to run both my forges, craft items, and cook food / make drinks.

 

If I was to do alot of mining, I would take extra food or consider iron gut but so far looting and scavenging gets me more raw materials than I can process right now.

Edited by BFT2020
fixed callout (see edit history)
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On 12/31/2020 at 1:07 PM, Peter Colivet said:

 

Absolutely! I am the hunter and the farmer. Living off the land is maxed. 

Level 128 (Me) Level 85, 83, 77, 68 and two 55's. 

100% full, with running around and occasional punching and even more occasional healing, I need 3 hobo stew's a day cycle, and another in the night. That's just me. Fairly consistent for the three day period, tested this four times. Sometimes I need an extra stew if I've taken a beating, that dude earlier was right about the healing. 

Again, it's not about having not enough hobo stews. It's about how quickly you burn it. I can make a stack of stews, everyone has two or three on them, but then I'm back to the farm, back to hunting, back to cooking. *Constantly* needing to eat. Only gives me around ten minutes of play time per day to actually do anything. 

 

At your level, you should be eating the top tier foods that give you over 100 food for each serving.  If your group’s cook is putting points in master chef, those are unlock at Perk level 4 in the strength tree which I think you only need Strength 5 for.  That is where I am right now in my SP playthrough and I got gumbo, spaghetti, and 2 others I can’t think of the names of 2 more (one is tuna on toast I think).

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I don't know why I'm getting vastly different results, then. 

As I said, it's not an issue finding food, it's an issue of how quickly the bars are going down. 

Further testing:

1 hour days - Insane

Brawler, heavy armour, Iron gut, living off the land, Healing factor, The temperature one, can't remember the name (Full perks) Level 142.

Steel knuckles - Steel armour 

Day 1 fully fed - Tier 5 clear quest - 1 hobo stew - Ran back home - Cleared horde - Already at 60% food - Chopped 20 trees broke 30 boulders - down to 20% another hobo stew - went hunting (4 stacks of meat)  - killed some zombies - ran home - down to 40% another hobo stew. 
Day 2 (Horde night) -  Tier 5 clear - Tier 5 fetch (couldn't finish in time) - down to 40% hobo stew - did some mining under the base for expansion for about 15 minutes, down to 55%ish - chopped trees for spikes down to 15% hobo stew - cook - tend farm - place traps - Prepped for horde, down to 60% hobo stew - Fought horde - down to 60% again. 
Day 3  - Hobo stew - Fully fed - trees - stones - mining- down to 20% hobo stew - Cleared random horde x2 - tier 5 clear - run to trader - run home - tend to farm - cook for people - down to 40% meat stew - veggie stew - horde - trees - rocks - horde - farm - down to 50% hobo stew

This continues on and on, and I'm almost *never* full. This is also just *my* data, there's around 8 of us on a good day, and everyone's always eating. (Never heard 'Food, boss?' so much in my life) Like I said in the original post, it's not an issue finding animals or farming, just with how quickly it goes down. I'm punching a good 90% of the time, mining and chopping a chunk of the rest, and running in and out of buildings. I am wearing heavy armour, occasionally getting hit and having to heal, (punches heal, though), and trying to get a quest done in time if possible.

After thinking some more about it, I'll post my equipment in detail. 

Steel knuckles
Steel armour (Full)
Running/Cycling is main transport, fuel is used for mollys + auger for our miner + other stuff.
Brawling 95% of zombies 
Only shooting when necessary, as ammo is precious for hordes.
Healing factor - 200 max hp.
Adrenaline punches heal with every hit. 
Max weather resistance.
Max Iron gut. 
1 hour days

Full to empty in about 25 minutes of play.  2/3 to fill, 1 extra if I've been whooped. /perday

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Running/Cycling is main transport

 

Stamina use is what causes food/water consumption to increase, and this right here is easily your greatest expense.

 

Fuel is actually easy to get if you can get yourself to a desert. Mine out a buttload of oil shale and process it all down for fuel. No problem. Use fuel to get around and you won't eat nearly as much food.

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What FlakAttack said.

 

In essence you are trading gas for stamina/food and by using melee mostly also trading ammo for stamina/food.  If you also don't use stealth to get in some cheap crit headshot damage in pois you are also trading time for stamina/food.

 

Both gas and ammo can probably be aquired as fast or faster through mining. At least I get that impression when I look at the stacks of raw materials the miner can bring back after just one night of mining

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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