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Balthazod

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The improvements on the graphics is welcome you no longer set my graphics card on fire I will have to put the heating on now. 

 

The Injury system is a good idea but its not good game play in its current form "you have fatigue" 1.30 hours real time "ONE AND HALF HOURS" curable by vitamins I don't have vitamins the trader does not have vitamins I have 1.5 hours where I can do very little.  And now we need to carry loads med a with us or suffer huge penalty times and massive impairments, but you dropped the stamina so we are playing with with a geriatric asthmatic who can not even cycle 50m with out being exhausted and being overloaded brings you to a crawl.

 

The loot changes WTF: I am now on day 7, I was really lucky the trader is in a town and the missions all pretty close but the loot and rewards are useless. I am at level 15 and the final loot reward box's which would normally be weapons and ammo and tools or food are: Ammo lots of ammo but no weapons,  All I have found are stone tools and blunderbuss, The rewards of traders are ammo and meds. I have even lock picked a few gun safes and found to my delite a fine selection of stone axes and shovels.  The slowness of the avatar and poor rewards makes doing mission boring, a big part of the enjoyment was getting to the end of a tough POI and getting juicy random reward Its simple 101 psychology.

 I have 20k dukes but the traders have no range weapons  so I face a blood moon with Blunderbuss and a bone knife.

 

The over all experience of my first 7 days on Alpha 19.2 is boring 

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1 hour ago, Balthazod said:

I was really lucky the trader is in a town

Actually, as of A19, all traders are in towns and given that you haven’t found vitamins yet I’d say that you are NOT really lucky. ;)
 

Grab a health bar from the vending machine. It will help you. 
 

1 hour ago, Balthazod said:

The over all experience of my first 7 days on Alpha 19.2 is boring 

Things are about to get more interesting. 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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Its not a matter of luck the penalty for injury are too extreme a broken arm treated with plaster cat is still 20 mins and this is low lvl easy stuff it slows the game play down too much and its dull.

 

And there are no health bars in the vender but a lot of other interesting stuff thats new

As well as vitamins I have found no seeds except flowers which are in abundance so no garden and food is a pain in the arse.

 

Edited by Balthazod (see edit history)

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40 minutes ago, Balthazod said:

The improvements on the graphics is welcome you no longer set my graphics card on fire I will have to put the heating on now. 

 

The Injury system is a good idea but its not good game play in its current form "you have fatigue" 1.30 hours real time "ONE AND HALF HOURS" curable by vitamins I don't have vitamins the trader does not have vitamins I have 1.5 hours where I can do very little.  And now we need to carry loads med a with us or suffer huge penalty times and massive impairments, but you dropped the stamina so we are playing with with a geriatric asthmatic who can not even cycle 50m with out being exhausted and being overloaded brings you to a crawl.

 

The loot changes WTF: I am now on day 7, I was really lucky the trader is in a town and the missions all pretty close but the loot and rewards are useless. I am at level 15 and the final loot reward box's which would normally be weapons and ammo and tools or food are: Ammo lots of ammo but no weapons,  All I have found are stone tools and blunderbuss, The rewards of traders are ammo and meds. I have even lock picked a few gun safes and found to my delite a fine selection of stone axes and shovels.  The slowness of the avatar and poor rewards makes doing mission boring, a big part of the enjoyment was getting to the end of a tough POI and getting juicy random reward Its simple 101 psychology.

 I have 20k dukes but the traders have no range weapons  so I face a blood moon with Blunderbuss and a bone knife.

 

The over all experience of my first 7 days on Alpha 19.2 is boring 

On the injury system, I have had more problems with the % chance of it happening with limited exposure time, especially when in some designed encounters you can get swarmed by 4 or more vultures and dozens of feral irradiated zombies.  But, then again, if the goal is survival, then you need to assess your ability to "safely" accomplish the objectives.  Better armor and stat point investments, as well as having done sufficient looting can better prepare the player.   

 

My perspective (as I am just starting in A19) is probably different than yours, but facing and impending blood moon, while severely sick (thinking flu) with rudimentary weapons does not sound boring, more like terrifying.   I tend to be very careful the first few weeks while I am so very fragile, so I never have planned on getting a gun.  I have found that counting on getting a gun, with sufficient matching ammo is dubious, and so it has been better for me to invest a few points in bludgeoning skills initially to be able to face the first few blood moons with at least the best melee weapon I can craft or find.   This, of course, requires a way to limit the ability of zombies to get to you during the blood moon.   My best advice is to build an elevated safe space with a single skinny very long pathway to get to you where the zombies will repeatedly fall off and have to re-path to you.  

 

On the loot, my understanding is that A19 introduced the concept of player game stage scaled loot, but it is not yet implemented for all aspects of the game, such as in the trader quest rewards.  

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I planned on going melle but the damage penalty make close combat perilous with the injury penalty. For blood moon you need range attack really as for ammo it not a problem as there is coal and nitrate a plenty and the loot is ammo rich as it happens I found ( lvl 18 now) rifle parts and the trader had a M4 for sale leaving me with aboyt 5 game hours to prep for the onslaught.  I have got like 2000 hrs in this game so my fort building skills are finely tuned its a the fun part building traps for zombies.

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With A19 the main goal is to slow the player down and for them to stop and smell the flowers. As in the past the meta was to rush to the end game as quickly as possible and then the majority of players would get bored. Now with A19 you can no longer rush to the end game as all loot is tied directly to your game stage. So your forced to have to use inferior weapons, tools, and new tactics to make the best of them. Now the exception is that the trader doesn't honor the new game stage gating and will happily sell or reward items far beyond your means other wise.

 

 

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I think for my first blood moon on my last single player game I stood on a POI's prefab stone wall that was across from the trader (and unbreakable).  I put a stone stairs up a block away so zombies could get within my clubs range.  Unless you are maxing out at nightmare difficult, x64 right away, the first blood moon for game stage < 20 was not bad.  The only special I worried about was the spider.

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I planned on going melle but the damage penalty make close combat perilous with the injury penalty. For blood moon you need range attack really as for ammo it not a problem as there is coal and nitrate a plenty and the loot is ammo rich as it happens I found ( lvl 18 now) rifle parts and the trader had a M4 for sale leaving me with aboyt 5 game hours to prep for the onslaught.  I have got like 2000 hrs in this game so my fort building skills are finely tuned its a the fun part building traps for zombies.

 

Slowing the game down should not equate to making it boring time is not the measure you should be using making me take 2 hours to walk 600m and back is not good game play doing 20 missions to get a lvl 5 stone axe is not rewarding. The problem was never in the early game but the later game when when all you have is the same lvl 5 mission over and over they should play Ravenhurst and take some of the ideas from there.

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5 hours ago, Balthazod said:

The over all experience of my first 7 days on Alpha 19.2 is boring 

theres perk that significantly shorten debuff lenght  .. its just less popular because its so easy to instantly cure most injuries

also keep in mind that max hp debuff decrease over time

 

3 hours ago, Balthazod said:

I planned on going melle but the damage penalty make close combat perilous with the injury penalty. For blood moon you need range attack really

 

51 minutes ago, Balthazod said:

I planned on going melle but the damage penalty make close combat perilous with the injury penalty. For blood moon you need range attack really

nope you dont melee bases work better than ever  just demolishers complicate it a little and theres no injury penalty when you are behind 1/4  block/wall withany kind of hole to hit them in coridor with electric fences

 not to mention you can facetank  horde in heavy armor  relying on consumables or fences .. especially with sledgehammer aoe knockdown and infinite stamina gain on  kill  from sexTrex

 

+ melee  is usually combined with heavy armor that makes injury  chance extremely small

not to mention you can have stuff to cure anything while you defend base since its common loot ....  problem lies in carrying  5+ items on loot trips just in case

 

 

yeah you have  same mentality as few more people on  forum ... "game is boring till i get ...q6 steel everything else is trash"

fact is  .. once you get  q6 steel game becomes boring for most people as looting become irrelevant ... and you will have q6 top tier everything  at lvl  50-70(out of 200) even in curent system

Edited by alanea (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Danidas said:

With A19 the main goal is to slow the player down and for them to stop and smell the flowers. As in the past the meta was to rush to the end game as quickly as possible and then the majority of players would get bored. Now with A19 you can no longer rush to the end game as all loot is tied directly to your game stage. So your forced to have to use inferior weapons, tools, and new tactics to make the best of them. Now the exception is that the trader doesn't honor the new game stage gating and will happily sell or reward items far beyond your means other wise.

Yeah but this didnt fixed the initial problem of players getting bored. All it made is to shift around payers getting bored from engame to players getting bored from reaching endgame.

 

The early game is utterly boring, just as it was because gameplay and content wise nothing got added but the whole thing got slowed down. Its the same as players complaining that theres no endgame and the game is short in an mmorpg so the devs cut all exp gain in half. Nothing is fixed, theres no new things to do and for most player the game is still the same.

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I am talking 1st 7 days so steel armour not viable and have you played Alpha 19.2 as seem you don't really understand the changes.  Its not boring untill I get to q6 the early part of the game was the fun part random chance of loot that could change the game now that it not there Now its wow a lvl 6 stone axe thats way its boring I am now lvl 22 and still looting stone shovels.  

I had heavy armour and still got broken arm, fatigue and so on less cuts but it still slowed the game down 1hr20 min real time is too much and carry all the various cures for all ailments is not viable and they are not available at low lvl. If they made it game time it would be more viable.  Even after 2000hrs I still get surprised now and the when 6 zombies drop out the ceiling 

Edited by Balthazod (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, Balthazod said:

a broken arm treated with plaster cat is still 20 mins and this is low lvl easy stuff

Sorry but a broken arm in the apocalypse is NOT low lvl easy stuff. It is a major hurdle to deal with. The game now reflects this accurately.

2 hours ago, Kandrathe said:

I stood on a POI's prefab stone wall that was across from the trader (and unbreakable). 

How are you standing on a trader zoned wall and not getting booted? Sounds buggy to me.

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1 minute ago, JCrook1028 said:

Sorry but a broken arm in the apocalypse is NOT low lvl easy stuff. It is a major hurdle to deal with. The game now reflects this accurately.

It is low lvl easy stuff as I was lvl 12 and got it of a solo wolf that would not die this is a game not an apocalypse simulation 

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2 minutes ago, Balthazod said:

It is low lvl easy stuff as I was lvl 12 and got it of a solo wolf that would not die this is a game not an apocalypse simulation 

Um no, this is a game set in an apocalypse with some of the problems from that setting incorporated into the game mechanics. If you're looking for a generic shooter then go find one. This is also a survival game. If it was so low lvl and easy then why did it hurt you so badly?

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1 minute ago, JCrook1028 said:

Um no, this is a game set in an apocalypse with some of the problems from that setting incorporated into the game mechanics. If you're looking for a generic shooter then go find one. This is also a survival game. If it was so low lvl and easy then why did it hurt you so badly?

because the there's a problem with the game mechanics at close range I shot it point blanl with a lvl 6 blunderbuss and then hit 5 times with iron axe but some fickle aspect of the game made the shots miss and only when I moved back did the hits connect Have you played 7D2D its very common problem.

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blunderbuss is the weakest gun in the game and the axe is not a weapon. I see why you're having problems. Have I played? Yes, 2350 hours. I know the game pretty well.

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3 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

blunderbuss is the weakest gun in the game and the axe is not a weapon. I see why you're having problems. Have I played? Yes, 2350 hours. I know the game pretty well.

Blunderbuss is all you get in Alpha19.2 and its not weak 10 pellets 14dmg per pellet its the same as a sawn of shot gun it just not versatile and axe is a weapon it does the same damage as a baseball bat mine a little more as was moded with serrated edge. 

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5 hours ago, Balthazod said:

Its not a matter of luck the penalty for injury are too extreme a broken arm treated with plaster cat is still 20 mins and this is low lvl easy stuff it slows the game play down too much and its dull.

 

And there are no health bars in the vender but a lot of other interesting stuff thats new

As well as vitamins I have found no seeds except flowers which are in abundance so no garden and food is a pain in the arse.

 

I appreciate your feedback and your perspective. I hope the devs don’t listen to you (people like you) this time around. Every Alpha the Pimps flirt with the survival genre in regards to penalties and consequences but ultimately back off when people who obviously are not survival game fans complain because all they want are incentives and rewards and think that bad consequences are never good design. The devs are, of course, interested in making this game have mass appeal so feedback like yours does hit a concern of theirs. 
 

You may get your wish and injuries will become just as bland and meaningless as you hope for. 
 

I know...when the zombies breach our bases let’s have them stop, shake our hands, say “gg”, and then despawn as well because right now the consequences of a base breach are too terrible. 
 

Again, I appreciate that injury consequences are not your kind of fun. I like injuries having a significant consequence, personally, and is kind of what I expected buying a Zombie Survival game called 7 Days to Die.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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If you have time to sit an wait 1hour while doing a mission that you can not leave site or the mission fails you can not go forward because your health is low well I wish I had that much time and patience and carried enough food but I like to be entertained by my survival games If I want real life I will go walk across the kalahari again.  As for base breach's well build better bases.  Why would I wish for bland and boring that is the opposite of what I am saying the severity of the penalty makes the game boring I am suggesting a better balance.  I appreciate a challenge and the injury's would make more sense if the 1hour30mins penalty/recovery was game time.

 

So far I have only reached lvl 22 in Alpha 19.2 but I can imagine doing lvl 5 missions will be very hard when I 10 radioactive zombies charging you but I will see what happens when I get there. 

I don't shake hands with Zombies and I normally play 7D2D on Ravenhurst mod which if you think you like a challenge should try it out but it will be too much for you. 

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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

How are you standing on a trader zoned wall and not getting booted? Sounds buggy to me.

The traders block protection extends across the street and covered one block onto the poi's wall.  You get booted if you are next to the traders wall, not in their block protection zone.  I occupied the house adjacent to the initial trader for convenience, but discovered additional benefits.

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2 hours ago, Balthazod said:

If you have time to sit an wait 1hour while doing a mission that you can not leave site or the mission fails you can not go forward because your health is low well I wish I had that much time and patience and carried enough food but I like to be entertained by my survival games If I want real life I will go walk across the kalahari again.

Cool. You have real life adventure cred. Got it. Sitting and waiting is one option. Developing some video game adventure cred by taking on the challenge of finishing the quest even with your diminished capacity is another. You might fail, but if you succeed— what a story! Or, 3rd option: you abandon the quest. You failed it. Go get healed and get a new one. A survival game in which you are guaranteed to succeed at every quest is pretty meh. 

 

2 hours ago, Balthazod said:

As for base breach's well build better bases.

As for injuries, well, fight better and defend better. 

 

2 hours ago, Balthazod said:

Why would I wish for bland and boring that is the opposite of what I am saying the severity of the penalty makes the game boring I am suggesting a better balance.  I appreciate a challenge and the injury's would make more sense if the 1hour30mins penalty/recovery was game time.

A bland and meaningless penalty for failure makes the game less exciting because ultimately you don’t really care if it hits you. An hour and thirty minutes of game time is like 1-2 minutes real-time. Really?  Why would we even need remedies? Why even have critical injuries?
 

What’s the phrase? “Not bad at all, barely an inconvenience.”

 

2 hours ago, Balthazod said:

don't shake hands with Zombies and I normally play 7D2D on Ravenhurst mod which if you think you like a challenge should try it out but it will be too much for you. 

Yes, yes...you’re better than me at the game AND hiking. Congratulations. My point, which you missed in your scramble to assert your dominance, is that horde night is thrilling BECAUSE of the potential consequences. Take away the chance for a rekt base that will take days to repair and suddenly who cares if the zombies get through. It is the same with fighting toe to toe against zombies and clearing POIs. If you know that the worst that will happen is that you’ll have a broken arm for a minute real-time then that puts a whole bunch of nonchalance into what is supposed to be a survival horror game. 
 

wait a minute....did you just walk on a treadmill with a kalahari trail app? 😉

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Roland said:

Cool. You have real life adventure cred. Got it. Sitting and waiting is one option. Developing some video game adventure cred by taking on the challenge of finishing the quest even with your diminished capacity is another. You might fail, but if you succeed— what a story!

 

As for injuries, well, fight better and defend better. 

 

A bland and meaningless penalty for failure makes the game less exciting because ultimately you don’t really care if it hits you. An hour and thirty minutes of game time is like 1-2 minutes real-time. Really?  Why would we even need remedies? Why even have critical injuries?
 

What’s the phrase? “Not bad at all, barely an inconvenience.”

 

Yes, yes...you’re better than me at the game AND hiking. Congratulations. My point, which you missed in your scramble to assert your dominance, is that horde night is thrilling BECAUSE of the potential consequences. Take away the chance for a rekt base that will take days to repair and suddenly who cares if the zombies get through. It is the same with fighting tie to tie against zombies and clearing POIs. If you know that the worst that will happen is that you’ll have a broken arm for a minute real-time then that puts a whole bunch of nonchalance into what is supposed to be a survival horror game. 
 

wait a minute....did you just walk on a treadmill with a kalahari trail app? 😉

There,s no story to succeed what does that mean? there is a mission to complete success or fail if you fail you have a long walk back to get your stuff.  

 

Fight better defend better so you never get damaged never get ambushed.  Its true there will be a need to restratergise some missions but things don't always go as planed

 

An hour thirty minutes is like 1-2 minute game time have you ever played this game and played alpha19.2 clearly not.

 

Well as you waffle about base being rekt (sic) the post was about the first 7 days and the loot reward and the reduced stamina making the game very slow and getting stone axes as loot unrewarding nothing to do with base's.

 

And yes I walked from Namibia to Botswana in the summer it wasn't nice.

 

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1 minute ago, Balthazod said:

There,s no story to succeed what does that mean?

It means that if you break your arm mid-quest and are down to 25% health but decide to continue on and try to finish the quest and then succeed— that makes for a great survival story. At least to me. 

 

4 minutes ago, Balthazod said:

An hour thirty minutes is like 1-2 minute game time have you ever played this game and played alpha19.2 clearly not.

Well, it depends what you have your days set to. Default is 60 minute days so an in-game hour is 2.5 minutes. Sorry, I should have said 3 minutes...

 

YOU said to change it to 1.5 hours of game time instead of 1.5 hours of real-time. I was simply pointing out what a lame-ass penalty that change would be. 
 

10 minutes ago, Balthazod said:

nothing to do with base's.

I know. I wasn’t changing the subject. I was drawing an analogy to emphasize the point that in ANY aspect of the game when you remove or make so insubstantial the penalties for failure, it makes a survival game blah and survival itself meaningless. 
 

If you break your leg you will be diminished for 1.5 hours real-time:

 

”OMG I better really be careful and prepared and going into that poi is scary because there’s a good chance I might break my leg while fighting zombies!!!!”

 

If you break your leg you will be diminished for 3 minutes real-time:

 

”Meh...no big deal. If my leg gets broken I’ll perch up high and go AFK for chips and salsa and when I get back all will be as though it never happened. Meds? Remedies? Tough choices about how to deal with it? Nah...it’s just 3 minutes for cryin out loud....”

 

 

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I would add two points... 

 

  • Not everyone likes every game, so at some point it's that adage from  Lucretius  "Ut quod ali cibus est aliis fuat acre venenum."  What is food to one, is to others bitter poison.
  • There's always changing buff.xml to set the debuffs the way you think they should be, or enable the cheats and gift yourself the cure.  If you find trivializing the challenges boring, as  I would, then the game world is filled with other adrenaline pumping thrills.

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22 minutes ago, Kandrathe said:

the game world is filled with other adrenaline pumping thrills.

I would submit that EVERY adrenaline pumping thrill that the game offers is fueled by what you have to lose. The more you have to lose, the higher the thrills and the greater the horror as you walk the edge of failure to achieve success.  It's like the difference between free climbing solo and climbing on belay.

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