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rescue86k

Feedback on injury system

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I come back time to time to play 7 days to die with next update. Life story..

 

The injury system isn't fun. It kills it. I spend my first points to "disable the feature".

 

I think all injuries should be segregated into conditionals. When you fell, you broke a leg. That was conditional, that worked. This injury system now, is a random on hit effect acrue injury system. 

 

When you include a broken leg into the random hit injury system, it devalues the unique event of breaking it from a fall. I would at least remove broken leg from the on hit injury system.

 

There are a lot of shaping behaviors the injury system pushed me into on how to play the game. Generally, don't get hit, even once. That is not fun. Might as well make my hp = 1. Remove hp all together and call this Call of Duty Zombie Instagrab. Shaping behavior of avoid melee. Avoid house exploration. Allocate starting perks directly into Heal Factor, put off your main build till day 3 or something.

 

Hope this helps

 

 

I probably sounded rash, theres good graphics and everything, just frustrated, hope the injury system, something can be done about it, or taper it down, so its not in the way, or segregate it so injuries have unique purpose, can be avoided, outside of "dont get hit once"

 

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Zombies have always been able to break your leg by hitting you especially crawlers. As for the new system just wearing any type of armor significantly reduces the chance of getting a injury.

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You're really not going to like it when they add the critical damage system to the vehicles as well lol.  Really the injury system isn't that bad if you are wearing armor since armor greatly reduces your chance of getting one.  Personally I like the system.  I would like to see it expanded and for the chance of infection to be much higher.  

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I wish it was a little less random.  So zombies crawling on the floor won't break your arms and birds won't break legs.  I'd also like to see the penalty times reduced slightly, especially in the beginning.   A broken leg is almost reason enough to commit suicide in the early game.

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I personally like the injury system. I think it adds depth to the game. Maybe it needs some tweaking based on the type of attack that caused the injury, but I would like to keep it.

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Right now it feels like if a vulture even looks in my general direction, I get an infection and abrasion.

Edited by Jeraal (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, rescue86k said:

When you include a broken leg into the random hit injury system, it devalues the unique event of breaking it from a fall. I would at least remove broken leg from the on hit injury system.

It doesn't devalue it for me. I STILL avoid falling whenever possible.

 

2 hours ago, rescue86k said:

There are a lot of shaping behaviors the injury system pushed me into on how to play the game. Generally, don't get hit, even once. That is not fun. Might as well make my hp = 1. Remove hp all together and call this Call of Duty Zombie Instagrab. Shaping behavior of avoid melee. Avoid house exploration. Allocate starting perks directly into Heal Factor, put off your main build till day 3 or something.

The injury system doesn't shape those kinds of behaviors in me at all. It shapes me into looking for honey in every stump I see and picking herbal antibiotics as a quest reward. It shapes me into crafting a few splints and saving aside a few sewing kits as an early game priority. It shapes me into putting on armor. In other words, knowing the threat I take precautions and prepare. 

 

If you are going to view threats as reasons to not play the game (ie melee and exlore) then why even play with zombies enabled? Turn them off or reduce the difficulty down. I very much enjoy the fact that the injury system results in...injuries. This is a survival game. You are supposed to experience setbacks to your wellbeing that you then adapt to and overcome. When fighting a vulture and not remaining unscathed if I end up with a broken leg I chalk it up to wrenching it during the fight and not that the bird broke it. I then look at finding the remedy as a quest-- a side quest that very much derails me from my primary objective but must absolutely be done.

 

The only criticism I have of the injury system is that death erases it completely. Debuffs should persist through your respawn and you should be forced to deal with it. I hate it if I die while working to get a splint together and then suddenly I'm fine. Feels like a cheat even though I didn't do it purposely. I know this isn't supposed to be a simulation but that is way too much of an arcadey situation in a survival game where death is losing-- not a problem solver.

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

The only criticism I have of the injury system is that death erases it completely. Debuffs should persist through your respawn and you should be forced to deal with it. I hate it if I die while working to get a splint together and then suddenly I'm fine. Feels like a cheat even though I didn't do it purposely. I know this isn't supposed to be a simulation but that is way too much of an arcadey situation in a survival game where death is losing-- not a problem solver.

And you don’t even technically die, you just have a “near death experience”, so it would make sense if they made it so you keep all your buffs and debuffs. Although I do think the XP penalty is a good suicide deterrent at high levels, at least for me. At level 50 plus, making up that lost XP takes an annoyingly long time. But I would support the idea of persistent buffs/debuffs

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24 minutes ago, Maxley said:

And you don’t even technically die, you just have a “near death experience”, so it would make sense if they made it so you keep all your buffs and debuffs. Although I do think the XP penalty is a good suicide deterrent at high levels, at least for me. At level 50 plus, making up that lost XP takes an annoyingly long time. But I would support the idea of persistent buffs/debuffs

While I'd be fine with debuffs surviving death, I would recommend that this be an option because some people might scream bloody murder over that change.  At least have it so that the newbie buff prevents you from respawning with debuffs on.

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Joel did mention that he would like to see it as an option. So, maybe.

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While we're at it Joel did also mention that they want to make specific injuries only come from specific types of zombies, just like the OP suggested.

So it is very likely that vultures will never break your legs. But crawlers will.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, meganoth said:

While we're at it Joel did also mention that they want to make specific injuries only come from specific types of zombies, just like the OP suggested.

So it is very likely that vultures will never break your legs. But crawlers will.

 

 

lol....so, maybe. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Roland said:

lol....so, maybe. ;)

Oh right, "very likely" is like the phrase "We have everything under control" in zombie movies.

 

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In my hardcore vanilla mod, I made debuffs including infection persist from death, even your food remains where it's at.
If there isn't a stand alone modlet for it, let me know and I can make it for those who wish to use it :)

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

While we're at it Joel did also mention that they want to make specific injuries only come from specific types of zombies, just like the OP suggested.

So it is very likely that vultures will never break your legs. But crawlers will.

 

 

Thinking about that I am reminded of Joel mentioning a special infected that I think was called the Reaver when he was hinting about them. But he didn't go into any details about it at the time unless the Gasser. However it makes me wonder about a special infected with huge claws that have a very high chance to cause bleed and lacerate.

 

AKA 7 Days version of a Death Claw.

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1 hour ago, Danidas said:

Thinking about that I am reminded of Joel mentioning a special infected that I think was called the Reaver when he was hinting about them. But he didn't go into any details about it at the time unless the Gasser. However it makes me wonder about a special infected with huge claws that have a very high chance to cause bleed and lacerate.

 

AKA 7 Days version of a Death Claw.

I like the idea of having a slasher zombie type which has a high chance of causing bleed. Similar to the burning type zombie. I’m surprised how little discussion I’ve seen about the types of special infected there could be. I was thinking it would be interesting if there was a type of zombie that is pretty weak, low hp low damage, but if it gets within striking distance of you it latches onto your legs and holds you in place until you kill it. Then I realized you can’t see your own legs so it wouldn’t really work visually

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3 hours ago, meganoth said:

Oh right, "very likely" is like the phrase "We have everything under control" in zombie movies.

 

Yes and if everything Joel talked about came to pass then I’d be zip lining back to base by now whenever my leg got broke....

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10 hours ago, Maxley said:

And you don’t even technically die, you just have a “near death experience”, so it would make sense if they made it so you keep all your buffs and debuffs.

I would only keep some debuffs. For example, I am fine with that a broken leg or arm is still broken after the near-death experience but something like a stage 3 infection or internal bleedings could cause a death loop. Food and drink should be capped so that you don't starve to death over and over again.

 

 

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Well death loops are indeed a problem. So i would simply remove a debuff only if the debuff was the "reason" for the death. E.g. if you die while 100% infected, remove the infection. If you die with 75%, don't remove it. If you died with 0 food left, respawn with 50% (or full) food, if you still had food left, no restock at all.

Probably makes sense to put this optional, and it is considered some sort of "hardcore" setting. I mean, there are people out there, that play with permadeath...

 

Imho especially infection and food should not be discarded so easily. Most my multiplayer games especially in early game almost every death is commented like "@%$#, i died, but oh well, at least i'm not hungry anymore/my infection is gone". Also myself. I got infected on day 1, didn't have any honey early. I really tried to cure the infection. I found 3 honeys in the meantime and already used them to temporarily stop the infections progression and even reduce it a little, but i couldn't cure it. I looked at the trader for antibiotics and would have spent all my dukes just to buy them, but the trader didn't sell some. Then on day 4 or 5, infection already reached ~70% i just wanted to chop a tree directly infront of my base during night... and got caught by bear... well at least the infection i tried to care for almost a week was cured now. To be honest, i was a little bit pissed, that it was gone after i tried everything to "really" cure it.

 

Also people not treating infections, when you only have 1-2 honey left, because they expect to die from other reasons anyway, (long) before the infection becomes ciritcal up to people that die "intentionally" if they don't have food to eat left, instead of going to hunt/loot for food, because they will respawn with full food easily then.

 

The XP-death penalty only helped a little bit, so most people don't die that easily anymore, but yeah, they still do. Even if they don't do it intentionally or thoughtless, often a death solves more problems then he is a problem.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)
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Binary solutions won't help much one way or another.

What I would do is to not clear all debuffs on death but cap them back to their non-lethal stages.

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1 hour ago, Gazz said:

Binary solutions won't help much one way or another.

What I would do is to not clear all debuffs on death but cap them back to their non-lethal stages.

Would reapplying casts/bandages reduce them again after death?  Or would they be in an already reduced state?  I'd prefer the former as a way of using up extra resources.

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The only one that irks me is the sprained arm/leg. They last 40+ minutes on average, and there's no easy way to reduce it like some of the other ailments. Broken bones have splints/casts, infections have antibiotics, lacerations have sewing kits and abrasians have aloe cream. What to sprains have? (unless there's something I dont know about?)

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11 minutes ago, Sitcoms said:

(unless there's something I dont know about?)

Health bar in the vending machine cuts down on all injury timers by quite a bit.

 

Ah...Hiem beat me again!

4 hours ago, Gazz said:

Binary solutions won't help much one way or another.

What I would will do is to not clear all debuffs on death but cap them back to their non-lethal stages.

Take the Madmole by the horns Gazz!

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, Roland said:

Health bar in the vending machine cuts down on all injury timers by quite a bit.

 

Ah...Hiem beat me again!

Take the Madmole by the horns Gazz!

 

28 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Health candy.

Oof, I've got to spend 100 dukes to stop a sprain though? Not fun early game (in my opinion)

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