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Building gives way too much EXP


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2 hours ago, Tahaan said:

 

Because being a lower GS means you have had fewer skill points to spend.  You're not as efficient at killing zeds when you do want to go run a POI together.  You're at a lower GS so you keep getting lower quality loot.  Being at the same GS not in and of itself a goal, but it affects stuff that you encounter and experience in the game.

 

 

So what? You're getting the gear you are able to find and you're spending skill points as you gain the levels doing what you enjoy doing. Who cares if someone else has spent more skillpoints and can find better loot-- especially if you're teamed up? Nerfing the building XP isn't going to get you to a higher level faster, it's just going to slow down your friend so instead of at least one of you having access to better loot you would both only have access to worse loot. This whole premise should be retitled. I dunno....how about:

 

The Green-Eyed Monster of 7 Days to Die

Socialism in Navezgane

I Like You Best When I'm Better Than You

Builders Should Be Pansies

There Can Only Be One (to open containers)

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20 hours ago, Psychodabble said:

And that's exactly why the game isn't balanced around edge cases...how many players engage in giant builds that would allow 2-3 levels per day?

Nope but it could become a little more balanced if they nerf building a bit. Not a big deal but hey, small improvements lead to a better overall balanced gameplay.

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3 hours ago, FranticDan said:

In entityclasses xml

        <passive_effect name="PlayerExpGain" operation="perc_add" value="5" tags="Upgrading"/>

You can change the 5 into a 4 to lower the upgrading XP by 1/6th

This is awesome.


I can change the 5 to a 500 and upgrade one block to make "remap" games when I want to try different skill sets hahah.

My take on upgrade XP is it is OP early game but balances out middle game.

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5 hours ago, IDNeon said:

This is awesome.


I can change the 5 to a 500 and upgrade one block to make "remap" games when I want to try different skill sets hahah.

My take on upgrade XP is it is OP early game but balances out middle game.

Just do giveselfxp in the console...much less effort.

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OP. you have to realize, most people in a group didn't like staying at base and build.  And way back when building and upgrading gave next to no XP - the builders were way behind in levels and ruined Horde night for the others that took off murder hoboing Zombies.  Now that decent XP is given building that our builders stayed and build and build and enjoyed what they liked doing - you want it taken away.  I litterally quit building back a few Alphas... actually refused - there was no XP in it.  It's now just where it needs to be.

 

 

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On 11/4/2020 at 9:25 PM, Roland said:

so instead of at least one of you having access to better loot you would both only have access to worse loot.

I just recently wondered how gamestage in a party affects the loot progression.

So if one player hast GS 20 he can find iron tools, another player has GS 10, he can't find iron tools.

Both are partied up, so party-GS is 28, which would allow both to find iron tools.

But then i guess the individual gamestage is what counts?

On the other hand, if party gamestage counts, the progression would be much much faster... but on the other hands, the threat is also....

(It just came to my mind, because after bloodmoon we looted the loot bags and he didn't get anything usefull, while i grabbed far better stuff, while he was around GS30 and i was ~GS50)

 

I just came accross that because i have a "solo" game running, but a friend joins that game occasionally. Of course he falls back in gamestage, because he just plays occasionally. But that means, when we go looting, everything he CAN find for me is very outdated? So it would be better he let me do all looting?

 

Hmm, that's then the first point i don't like about the progression system. It makes coop-playing worse, if not all players play the same amount.

 

BTW: Building can be managed to close XP-gaps. So basically if someone falls back in level/gamestage, we let him build intentionally to cover up. If said player knows how and what to build, he can do it himself. If not, our builder e.g. places woodframes/rebarframes but let the other player upgrade them. It doesn't need any skills, so everybody can do it.

I also did that in the above szenario with my friend. I let him upgrade blocks to cover up the gap.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, A Nice Cup of Tea said:

In my group, whoever is behind on experience does the building/upgrading of the base. The buiilding-xp lets them catch up and this gives people an incentive to do it instead of leaving it to others.

 

That sounds like it's working as intended to me.

So knowing that is gives more xp is working as intended? Interesting.

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It's not that upgrading blocks gives more xp. It is that xp from upgrading blocks is not shared.

 

Depending on your multiplayer exp sharing settings, your builder could be home upgrading blocks getting all that exp for himself, while also sharing the xp that you are getting from killing zombies while questing and clearing pois.

 

If one or more people don't want to upgrade any blocks to catch up, you can always just reduce shared exp to the minimum or turn it off. That should keep the levels much closer.

 

When i play multiplayer with my son, we generally take turns being in charge of the base. When we have the mats for a large amount of block upgrades, whoever is behind in exp does the upgrades. As long as you are actually playing coop and working together, it is easy to keep the levels the same +/- 2 levels.

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I guess I’m a little confused. I was under the impression in A19 that it was the highest gs player in the party that determined shared loot quality so if a gs 10 party member was looting and the highest party member was gs 30, everyone looted at gs 30. Also, if that gs 30 party member was the only player spending points in Lucky Looter, other party members benefited from that players Lucky Looter. Am I wrong with all of this? Can someone explain how this all actually works?

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5 minutes ago, Star69 said:

I guess I’m a little confused. I was under the impression in A19 that it was the highest gs player in the party that determined shared loot quality so if a gs 10 party member was looting and the highest party member was gs 30, everyone looted at gs 30. Also, if that gs 30 party member was the only player spending points in Lucky Looter, other party members benefited from that players Lucky Looter. Am I wrong with all of this? Can someone explain how this all actually works?

Not sure about whether or not highest GS is used in a party.... but I do know that Lucky Looter only benefits the person who spent points on it.

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17 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Not sure about whether or not highest GS is used in a party.... but I do know that Lucky Looter only benefits the person who spent points on it.

Isn't GS/LS completely dependent on the player that opens the container?

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1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

Isn't GS/LS completely dependent on the player that opens the container?

I suspect that is the case, but I've yet to play A19 with a group.... so I figured I'd leave that question to people with more experience in it than I.

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I’ve noticed that friends who join a game where the rest of us are say gs 40, one of us with LL 3 or 4, and the new player gs <5 (and is a party member) and that new player starts looting as soon as he enters the game for the first time.....routinely gets higher end gear as would the gs 40 folks. That didn’t happen before A19. I know that Eye Candy and looter goggles don’t affect party looting, but wasn’t sure about LL.

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13 minutes ago, Star69 said:

I’ve noticed that friends who join a game where the rest of us are say gs 40, one of us with LL 3 or 4, and the new player gs <5 (and is a party member) and that new player starts looting as soon as he enters the game for the first time.....routinely gets higher end gear as would the gs 40 folks. That didn’t happen before A19. I know that Eye Candy and looter goggles don’t affect party looting, but wasn’t sure about LL.

The perk description pretty much confirms it

 

Quote

Adds 5% to loot bonus for containers that you open personally

 

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Well, I guess I should have reread the A19 release notes. I was correct on party loot level, wrong on Lucky Looter:

 

“The loot quality for player parties is equivalent to that of the highest level player and perk effects like Lucky Looter are not shared. The only loot advantage is that parties face tougher opponents which have a higher chance to drop loot of better quality.

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... Are we really having this discussion again?

Loot is determined by the highest game stage of the party, but individuals get a personal bonus from Lucky Looter.

So while having a large variance in game stages across the party doesn't hurt loot, it can affect other things. Mostly some people may feel under developed for horde nights. Or it could just be a psychological effect of inequality.

In my small group of friends, we usually trade off the dedicated building duties per map but we do use upgrading to trade and maintain some sort of equality across the levels. Usually we try not to be more than 1 or 2 levels apart.

Which brings back my original suggestion that upgrading XP be a server option so that the players can choose whether they want it shared or not. I also think that shared XP should have an options to control the relativity of the XP, so a min and max range (instead of just a max) and a rate value that scales with the distance. Granted, I don't know how those additional math calculations would be on the performance, opposed to the simple 'if player is in range give X'.

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15 minutes ago, DaChibii said:

... Are we really having this discussion again?

Don't sound so surprised  :)

Many topics get re-hashed every couple of weeks/months/years.   Usually with the same results.... lots of argument and no agreement.

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I agree that building feels like it gives too much xp compared to everything else.  The thing you have to think about though is how long it takes to get all the materials together, to run them thru a forge and mixer to get them turned in to the material that you need.  After doing all of that you can definitely get a large chunk of xp but that can also be compared to the horde nights.  It's very easy for me to jump up 3 or 4 levels during a 15 minute horde night.  I wouldn't say that killing zombies gives too much xp though.  

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