DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Hi everybody, I've been playing for years and years, and I've never felt the urge to understand certain things, but I'm going to take a minute now to ask them. Why do most online servers limit the number of trees players can put down? There seems to be a heavy emphasis on anti-tree farms commonly. Why do players leave items in containers? I've seen it time and time again, and I don't mean carelessly leaving contents behind, but intentionally placing items in the container. I can only theorize that it's some exploit that refreshes their contents sooner? Anyways, if anyone knows anything about either of those, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, DarkWestern said: Why do most online servers limit the number of trees players can put down? There seems to be a heavy emphasis on anti-tree farms commonly. Trees generate lag 1 minute ago, DarkWestern said: Why do players leave items in containers? I've seen it time and time again, and I don't mean carelessly leaving contents behind, but intentionally placing items in the container. I can only theorize that it's some exploit that refreshes their contents sooner? Its an exploit. Containers will respawn loot after a set period of time. If you revisit a site before that period of time has passed, the timer resets and loot isn't respawned.... unless, there is an item still in the container. If an item is left in a container, you can go back after the time period for respawn has passed, remove the item, and the container will respawn loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemfire Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: Why do most online servers limit the number of trees players can put down? There seems to be a heavy emphasis on anti-tree farms commonly. Too many player placed trees affect server overhead while they're "growing". 3 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: Why do players leave items in containers? I've seen it time and time again, and I don't mean carelessly leaving contents behind, but intentionally placing items in the container. I can only theorize that it's some exploit that refreshes their contents sooner? Not sure if they're still doing it (you might have picked up on it from some A18 LPs on YouTube), but sort of. It allowed them to bypasses the proximity check limit set on container loot respawn. Timer starts when the container has been opened, but resets if there is anyone within 15 blocks of the container if it is empty. With an item still in the container the timer still counted down while the proximity check didn't happen. It is/was a bug/exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 Interesting, thank you both for the replies. The tree thing seems vague. 'causes lag' 'server overhead' is any of this confirmed? I guess I'd like to know a more technical answer, but I'm happy to get that much honestly. Regarding the containers, that's interesting. You both confirmed my suspicions that it was some kind of bug/exploit... I do wonder exactly how much time has to pass before the container resets... Very interesting stuff, thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemfire Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: I do wonder exactly how much time has to pass before the container resets... Depends on the server's or game save's settings. Loot respawn time is adjustable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 That's also a valid point. I wonder what is it based on the base multiplier rather then lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: Interesting, thank you both for the replies. The tree thing seems vague. 'causes lag' 'server overhead' is any of this confirmed? I guess I'd like to know a more technical answer, but I'm happy to get that much honestly. I dont know if its ever been officially confirmed, but I can tell you that I definitely experience it when I plant a massive tree farm. For me, it only seems to happen with player placed trees. Probably since those are the only trees that grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, Kalen said: For me, it only seems to happen with player placed trees. I know that historically, trees weren't optimized, maybe it's just an old issue that was fixed, yet server owners still enforce the rule? Have you made any tree farms lately that you noticed issues within? Also, again, thank you for this information. I plan on passing the tree information to the server owner because some of the farms are absolutely insane, consisting of literal hundreds of trees at a time. I'd almost began to wonder if the rule was imposed [ on other servers ] due to difficulty navigating through them for land based vehicles, but so far, everyone seems to agree that there is a drop in performance....in some way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: I know that historically, trees weren't optimized, maybe it's just an old issue that was fixed, yet server owners still enforce the rule? Have you made any tree farms lately that you noticed issues within? Yup, I absolutely still see it. It takes a lot of trees before I notice an impact (40-50 trees). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemfire Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 29 minutes ago, DarkWestern said: That's also a valid point. I wonder what is it based on the base multiplier rather then lol No multiplier. Just a setting for number of game days. Default is 30 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, Kalen said: Yup, I absolutely still see it. It takes a lot of trees before I notice an impact (40-50 trees). Interesting, as I said before, on the server I play, it's not uncommon to see tree farms sprawling on and on for hundreds of trees at a time. 1 minute ago, hiemfire said: No multiplier. Just a setting for number of game days. Default is 30 days. Right, I just mean I'm curious about the exact amount of time which needs to pass before the loot containers refresh when someone leaves something in them, the multiplier would be attached to the loot refresh set by the server owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, DarkWestern said: Right, I just mean I'm curious about the exact amount of time which needs to pass before the loot containers refresh when someone leaves something in them, the multiplier would be attached to the loot refresh set by the server owners. Leaving items in the container doesn't change the respawn time.... it's still 30 days (or whatever the server is set to). All it does is stop the timer from resetting if someone goes near the container. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Kalen said: All it does is stop the timer from resetting if someone goes near the container. What is the benefit of stopping the timer? I'm probably not seeing the forest for the trees here, maybe it's very obvious, but I don't see the benefit of that? Stopping the timer would delay the respawn of loot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, DarkWestern said: What is the benefit of stopping the timer? I'm probably not seeing the forest for the trees here, maybe it's very obvious, but I don't see the benefit of that? Stopping the timer would delay the respawn of loot? I'm probably not being clear..... So say you loot a container on day 10 (loot respawn set to 30). If you leave and come back on day 40 the container will be filled again. However, lets say you come back on day 20. The timer resets... and now the container wont respawn until day 50. Each time you come back before it respawns, the timer starts over. If you leave an item in the container, that doesn't happen. So in my example, coming back at day 20 wouldn't change the respawn time... it will still respawn on day 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, Kalen said: Ahhhh, I 100% get it now! That makes a lot of sense, thank you for elaborating on that, and I apologize for being dense lol, I'd say the loot container portion of this thread is concluded, but I'd still be curious to know more about the tree farms, and exactly how, or why, they impact performance. Thank you both for the replies, really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danidas Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Just now, DarkWestern said: Ahhhh, I 100% get it now! That makes a lot of sense, thank you for elaborating on that, and I apologize for being dense lol, I'd say the loot container portion of this thread is concluded, but I'd still be curious to know more about the tree farms, and exactly how, or why, they impact performance. Thank you both for the replies, really! Each player placed tree has a counter to determine when it will grow to the next stage. Which for a single tree is very minor but as you add more and more it gets exponentially worse for the server cpu that on top of that is keeping all the data synced between all the players. Now on top of keeping it synced and processing the growth timers it also has to handle the map data for it all as well. When combined with how inefficient everything else runs on a server for this game it can put a noticeable load on the server. Especially when you consider that most rentable servers are very weak in the cpu/memory department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkWestern Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, Danidas said: Ah, now there is some data I can present the server owner with! Thank you for taking the time to lay it out, and I appreciate everyone else that contributed to this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Danidas said: Each player placed tree has a counter to determine when it will grow to the next stage. Which for a single tree is very minor but as you add more and more it gets exponentially worse for the server cpu that on top of that is keeping all the data synced between all the players. Now on top of keeping it synced and processing the growth timers it also has to handle the map data for it all as well. When combined with how inefficient everything else runs on a server for this game it can put a noticeable load on the server. Especially when you consider that most rentable servers are very weak in the cpu/memory department. Not saying you're wrong, because I truly don't know.... but if this were the case, shouldn't we see the same performance issues from crops? In my last game, I had about 150 farm plots and had no issues, but 50 trees did cause a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidster Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Kalen said: Not saying you're wrong, because I truly don't know.... but if this were the case, shouldn't we see the same performance issues from crops? In my last game, I had about 150 farm plots and had no issues, but 50 trees did cause a problem. I thought one of the reasons for the switch away from tilled soil and into farm plots was a performance-related thing. Maybe related? Or maybe I am imagining things. The narwhal that lives in my microwave says that I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Boidster said: I thought one of the reasons for the switch away from tilled soil and into farm plots was a performance-related thing. Maybe related? Or maybe I am imagining things. The narwhal that lives in my microwave says that I am... Maybe, I figured they did it to prevent you from getting massive farms as soon as you got a hoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Yup, too many trees cause lag for me also. On this play through I made a "tree farm" with a 100 trees (on single player). It seemed to me that while they were still in the sapling stage there was no lag. As full trees I noticed a decent amount of lag, the game was still playable but it was noticeable. Maybe someone with a better PC wouldnt have even noticed. i7 4.00 GHZ, 16 ram, GTX 1070 here. Farm plots dont cause any noticeable lag for me in any growth stage, even with the 336 plots I have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFlu Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I figured it was a workaround for the topsoil-texturing system, can't have tilled ground when the ground texture was forced from the map. For trees, I think it's just the animations.. even when fully grown, tree farms give me massive frame drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smicer Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Is the respawn still like this? Does it respawn faster if you leave some trash in the lootbox? Is it adjustable? The admin of my server said to please never leave any loot behind, rather throw it to the ground, because stuff wouldnt respawn otherwise...... And also... does it mean that you need to go near the lootbox to restart the counter or really open the lootbox (why would you open an empty lootbox?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danidas Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, Smicer said: Is the respawn still like this? Does it respawn faster if you leave some trash in the lootbox? Is it adjustable? The admin of my server said to please never leave any loot behind, rather throw it to the ground, because stuff wouldnt respawn otherwise...... And also... does it mean that you need to go near the lootbox to restart the counter or really open the lootbox (why would you open an empty lootbox?) If no loot is left in the container then getting with in 15 blocks of it is bad and should be avoided as the loot will never respawn. Since the respawn timer is reset each time that you do so and forces you to have to wait longer for the loot. Now if you leave something in the container that will break the proximity check and allow loot to repawn after the servers set loot respawn time has passed once you remove the item from the container. Since the proximity check only cares about empty containers and the loot respawn only cares about time since container was in Unknown Contents state for empty containers. In other words leave something behind, figure out the loot respawn time, come back after, remove the item, look away from the container, look back at it, and enjoy the newly respawned loot. Note if you remove the item before the loot respawn timer is up then it may reset it and create the illusion that this doesn't work. Also a lot of players/server admins consider this to be cheating and actively try to keep people from doing or knowing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liesel Weppen Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 On 11/3/2020 at 2:27 AM, theFlu said: For trees, I think it's just the animations.. even when fully grown, tree farms give me massive frame drops. Jep. Never had server issues with trees (but also not playing on public servers with lots of players), but rendering on the client suffers from huge tree farms. You could also easily notice that because fps only drop if the tree farm is visible. And the fpsdrops raise and fall depending how much trees are onscreen. Best noticable if they are fully grown. It also depends of the type of trees, some are worse, others affect performance less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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