A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Pwn3dg4m3r]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

What you didn't explain is why you are FORCED to carry those sets and switch between them.

 

Can someone only chop wood in the woodchopper outfit? Surely not. The outfits were described by TFP as having a few bonusses, nothing more. Are those bonusses essential or important ? We will have to find out.

  I understand what your saying, maybe i was explaing it from the wrong angle.

   Yes you dont have to use the armor to do those things but inorder to get the same amount of resources that we can get now you have to use the armor sets.  So not using them means your getting less so it takes more trips to make up the difference therefor taking up more time to do the same thing.

   Also simce you said yourself these bonuses are not essential then why remove the entire old armor system for this new one?? Why not just add the armor sets in and keep the old system as well.

    I'm not saying the sets themselves are bad just that scrapping the whole old system for the new one makes no sense.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Pwn3dg4m3r (see edit history)

[BrunoFuturista]

hi, I would like to know if there will be an option on alpha 20 to deactivate the bandits in the game, since the bandit can be kinda bad for a solo experience in wich we are alone probavly the only alive and were full of zombies, so i would like to know if theres such option beeing even thinked or implemented on alpha 20

[Xtrakicking]

1 hour ago, BrunoFuturista said:

hi, I would like to know if there will be an option on alpha 20 to deactivate the bandits in the game, since the bandit can be kinda bad for a solo experience in wich we are alone probavly the only alive and were full of zombies, so i would like to know if theres such option beeing even thinked or implemented on alpha 20

Kinda pointless considering bandits won't be implemented in A20.

[Arma Rex]

I like how people are already trying to critique A20 even though we've had a very low amount of information on the update.

[Xtrakicking]

43 minutes ago, Arma Rex said:

I like how people are already trying to critique A20 even though we've had a very low amount of information on the update.

Because sometimes things just don't sound good. Maybe they turn out to be good, but assumptions can't beat the bad feelings.

[Roland]

@Pwn3dg4m3r There are currently almost no articles of clothing that grant bonuses. The letterman jacket, running shoes, and the face accessories are the only ones that come to mind. 
 

I can’t think of a single pair of pants or shirt or armor piece that grants 5% bonus to mining or chopping wood or farming.

 

So why the certitude that we are going to lose bonuses that will have to be regained by wearing outfits? By getting rid of clothes and armor as separate entities which bonuses are you thinking we are losing?

 

The answer is: none. There are no wood chopping and mining bonuses currently assigned to any outfits to lose. Those will be all gain. If you chop wood while wearing the miner gear you will mine better than now and chop wood the same as now. 

[Pwn3dg4m3r]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

@Pwn3dg4m3r There are currently almost no articles of clothing that grant bonuses. The letterman jacket, running shoes, and the face accessories are the only ones that come to mind. 
 

I can’t think of a single pair of pants or shirt or armor piece that grants 5% bonus to mining or chopping wood or farming.

 

So why the certitude that we are going to lose bonuses that will have to be regained by wearing outfits? By getting rid of clothes and armor as separate entities which bonuses are you thinking we are losing?

 

The answer is: none. There are no wood chopping and mining bonuses currently assigned to any outfits to lose. Those will be all gain. If you chop wood while wearing the miner gear you will mine better than now and chop wood the same as now. 

   While the current clothing doesn't give any direct bonus some like cigar and goggles do give stats.

 

   For example I have lvl 6 strenght then use a cigar to get 7 so 

I can get 5/5 Miner 69'er and 5/5 mother lode and save 2 points and use them else where, same for perception, the new system does away with these since now we only have 4 amor slots.  So now I'll lose those attribute points and go down to 4/5 in those perks and others.  Which means I will have to spend time (again the theme of my posts is concern over making players waste more time just to do what we were already capable of doing) leveling up just to get back where i was already at or have to live with what I got and be less effecent than I once was again resulting in having to spend more time harvesting. 

 

   Currently on my main server I'm level 132 which means leveling up 4 times to get back those 2 attribute points is going to take a long while.

 

   It just seems odd that in a game where time is a luxery that we have to manage agianst the coming 7 +/- days horde that we have to spend more time just to do what the players are able to do now before this coming update.

 

  One more concern is the rebalancing of mod slots,  TFP don't say if the means adding more or reducing the number of slots armor has.  If its adding and things like cigar and goggles get turned into mods then that would be a good step to balance problems that players like me would have with the new system.  If TFP stick to the theme of taking away things and reduce the number of mod slots then that will compound the problem.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Pwn3dg4m3r (see edit history)

[sillls]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:52 PM, SheeleMara said:

 

 A potential stand-in for the time being would be a fetch quest that you turn in to a different trader. 

I like this idea. You know Madmole did talk about other factions that are going to be in the game. Maybe we will have missions that counter those transport missions. Maybe the Duke will offer the player a lot of money (Dukes) for you to divert a package to him. 

 

But White River might not like this and come after you if you do that. 

Yep Madmole did talk about enforcement to.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by sillls (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

6 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

So now I'll lose those attribute points and go down to 4/5 in those perks and others.  Which means I will have to spend time (again the theme of my posts is concern over making players waste more time just to do what we were already capable of doing) leveling up just to get back where i was already at or have to live with what I got and be less effecent than I once was again resulting in having to spend more time harvesting. 

That's pure "Meta-Gaming": you didn't lose anything, since each alpha version is its own game.

You only know that because you're in early access. Why don't you try to judge each version on its own merits when A20 EXP comes out instead? 🙂

 

IMHO it's too early to give such detailed feedback on the new clothing system, unless you're trying to dictate your terms to the devs preemptively.

[Roland]

6 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

   While the current clothing doesn't give any direct bonus some like cigar and goggles do give stats.

 

   For example I have lvl 6 strenght then use a cigar to get 7 so 

I can get 5/5 Miner 69'er and 5/5 mother lode and save 2 points and use them else where, same for perception, the new system does away with these since now we only have 4 amor slots.  So now I'll lose those attribute points and go down to 4/5 in those perks and others.  Which means I will have to spend time (again the theme of my posts is concern over making players waste more time just to do what we were already capable of doing) leveling up just to get back where i was already at or have to live with what I got and be less effecent than I once was again resulting in having to spend more time harvesting. 

 

   Currently on my main server I'm level 132 which means leveling up 4 times to get back those 2 attribute points is going to take a long while.

 

   It just seems odd that in a game where time is a luxery that we have to manage agianst the coming 7 +/- days horde that we have to spend more time just to do what the players are able to do now before this coming update.

 

  One more concern is the rebalancing of mod slots,  TFP don't say if the means adding more or reducing the number of slots armor has.  If its adding and things like cigar and goggles get turned into mods then that would be a good step to balance problems that players like me would have with the new system.  If TFP stick to the theme of taking away things and reduce the number of mod slots then that will compound the problem.

It will be no different than now. Currently, to get the bonus you have to acquire a cigar. After the change, in order to get the bonus you have to acquire a ______. We don't know yet how it will work but what we do know is the following:

 

Every piece of an outfit adds a bonus for the player (more than we have now)

If all pieces match there is a significant bonus (more than we have now)

There will be fewer overall mod slots available for wearables than there is now. (less than we have now)

 

We really don't have enough specifics yet to be able to judge whether all of the new bonuses will end up being a good offset for losing the overall number of clothing/armor pieces in order to become fully kitted out as well as the loss of overal mod slots. I will say that in my opinion the armor mod slot situation has been grossly OP with no need for any decision making or variety of mod combos. With five armor pieces as well as clothing pieces all with mod slots it has never been any kind of game to managing and choosing what mods to use. There's plenty of slots for everything. So I think that going down to a total of four pieces will bring the number of mod slots into better alignment with weapons and tools. I absolutely hope they do NOT increase mod slots for the outfits so that it matches what we have had for the last few alphas. We need to be making choices about how to mod our gear-- not simply sticking every mod we get into an available slot because there are 20+ of them all functioning for armor....

 

Finally, you should never judge a new alpha by what you were or were not able to do before especially when balancing is part of what they are doing now. There are going to be many times during the coming year where something you just got for free will be changed to having to work for it or something that was never something to consider before suddenly becomes something to consider. Not that this change is even remotely one of those cases...

[Pwn3dg4m3r]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

It will be no different than now. Currently, to get the bonus you have to acquire a cigar. After the change, in order to get the bonus you have to acquire a ______. We don't know yet how it will work but what we do know is the following:

 

Every piece of an outfit adds a bonus for the player (more than we have now)

If all pieces match there is a significant bonus (more than we have now)

There will be fewer overall mod slots available for wearables than there is now. (less than we have now)

 

We really don't have enough specifics yet to be able to judge whether all of the new bonuses will end up being a good offset for losing the overall number of clothing/armor pieces in order to become fully kitted out as well as the loss of overal mod slots. I will say that in my opinion the armor mod slot situation has been grossly OP with no need for any decision making or variety of mod combos. With five armor pieces as well as clothing pieces all with mod slots it has never been any kind of game to managing and choosing what mods to use. There's plenty of slots for everything. So I think that going down to a total of four pieces will bring the number of mod slots into better alignment with weapons and tools. I absolutely hope they do NOT increase mod slots for the outfits so that it matches what we have had for the last few alphas. We need to be making choices about how to mod our gear-- not simply sticking every mod we get into an available slot because there are 20+ of them all functioning for armor....

 

Finally, you should never judge a new alpha by what you were or were not able to do before especially when balancing is part of what they are doing now. There are going to be many times during the coming year where something you just got for free will be changed to having to work for it or something that was never something to consider before suddenly becomes something to consider. Not that this change is even remotely one of those cases...

  This will more than likely be my last post on the matter since no one seems to understand what I'm warning about in this update.

 

   Everything in my post has bee  nothing but facts:

   player will have to carry multiple sets of armor now IF they want to accomplish what they use to be able to do.

  Gameplay will become more tedious having to manage armor sets and a bloated imventory.

  More of the players time will be consumed just to do tasks that otherwise were accomplished fairly quickly.

 

   All the replys I've gotten are nothing but  "Well we don't know yet or wait for it to be released or it could end up being this way or that ." 

 1: We do know the devs posted it

 2: We don't have to wait for something to be released before we are allowed to give criticism, (good or bad although it does seem like only good is allowed here) thats kinda the point of releasing content updates.

  3: Yes it could end up going one way or another, it could end up being an amazing move, but the fact remains, with the information TFP gave us as it stands in the current state this is looking to be a bad move.

 

  I do agree that adding more mod slots wouldnt be good, by "adding" I meant adding things like cigars and goggles and shades as mods to keep the stat boosting items.

   Although what you mentioned about having to make decisions about what mods to use instead of just equiping all of them would just make a game about resource management even more resource management heavy and therefore become tedious and dull.  Especially when the focus of the game is survival, shifting the focus to gear would just seem off and distracting.  Sometimes cutting the players some slack and easing up on one area of the mechanics (making it easier for players to use gear and less decision making in that area) and increasing the difficulty in others such as the toughness of zombies is a more balanced and structured way to do it.

  

Edited December 28, 2020 by Pwn3dg4m3r (see edit history)

[sillls]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:52 PM, SheeleMara said:

 

 A potential stand-in for the time being would be a fetch quest that you turn in to a different trader. 

 Interesting... Madmole did talk about other factions in the game. So maybe you could do that for a bigger payoff. But watch out when you betray another faction. They may come looking for you.

 You know Madmole did talk about other factions that are going to be in the game. Maybe we will have missions that counter those transport missions. Maybe the Duke will offer the player a lot of money (Dukes) for you to divert a package to him. But White River might not like this and come after you if you do that. Yep Madmole did talk about enforcement to.😬

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

  This will more than likely be my last post on the matter since no one seems to understand what I'm warning about in this update.

 

   Everything in my post has bee  nothing but facts:

   player will have to carry multiple sets of armor now IF they want to accomplish what they use to be able to do.

 

This is called a conjecture. Please read the wikipedia article on what a "fact" is. 

 

If you think this is beside the point, sorry it is not. If you just want to emphasize that you are so sure of it that you don't accept any dissenting opinion on that, just say so, but please don't use the word "fact". It has been misused a lot lately.

 

2 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

 

 2: We don't have to wait for something to be released before we are allowed to give criticism, (good or bad although it does seem like only good is allowed here) thats kinda the point of releasing content updates.

 

 

This is a discussion forum, anyone is allowed to post opinions as well as opinions on opinions of other posters. If your post wasn't allowed, a moderator would have deleted it. It still is here, you just got involved in a discussion where (almost?) everyone else seems to have a different opinion.

Nobody will stop you from critizising, but nobody will stop others from talking to you and possibly telling you you are wrong.

 

[BrunoFuturista]

16 hours ago, Arma Rex said:

I like how people are already trying to critique A20 even though we've had a very low amount of information on the update.

i wasnt criticizing, i was kinda curious if said option would be implemented, since at least for me, it would kinda take away the solo play, and since ive hear that alpha 20 or 21 would have bandits i decided to ask

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

we are allowed to give criticism, (good or bad although it does seem like only good is allowed here) thats kinda the point of releasing content updates.

How on earth could I be responding to your posts if they were not allowed?  What could I possibly be quoting from in my own posts and how would anyone understand what the heck I’m talking about if they couldn’t read what you wrote which still remains and will remain for as long as these forums exist...?

 

If you don’t want to continue the discussion, that’s fine but it’s your choice to stop and nobody else is stopping you. You brought the heat to the devs on this issue because you said they’re big boys and can take it. Are you saying you can’t take on some challenges to your own viewpoint? I don’t think I’m being half as aggressive as you were. 
 

Personally, I enjoy playing a character that has strengths and weaknesses. It makes for more varied gameplay and role playing. I would never carry around multiple outfits just so I could make sure my character had max efficiency at all times no matter what I was doing. I would take the strength that I want and recognize that it would come with some downsides that I would have to deal with. See? No inventory management problems. Those problems only come into play when you are playing from a min/max philosophy. 
 

What I think would be cool would be to have a specialized container like a wardrobe that had all its slots organized by outfit set so we could with one click swap whole outfits when in our base. We could still do it piece by piece for mixing different outfits but for swapping whole sets it would be nice for a one click QOL solution at your base. 

Edited December 28, 2020 by Roland (see edit history)

[Pwn3dg4m3r]

    I think a wardrobe feature would be amazing too, personaly I don't know why we don't already have a feature like other games where you can favorite pieces of armor and then equip them with one click.

 

You miss understand what I mean by "allowed".

 

 I don't mean it in a strict sense as in the post will be removed if it is negative criticism, I mean that the general attitude of the memebers here from what I've encountered and seen from reading other post is that if its in any way negative towards the game forum members will try to discredit or marginalize the poster by saying "you don't know what your talking about because you havn't played it yet" or "you should just wait and see instead of saying what you said", or " well IMHO it's not that way" all those lines do nothing to add to what some one is posting a concern about and pushes their post to the wayside by making the poster seem whinny or projecting frustration. (Though I will say you have been polite and even give detailed responses so I do appreciate that)

 

   Go back and read the replies to my posts and other posters and tell me I'm wrong, heck just go up one post to BrunoFuturista replying to Arma Rex about Arma trying to shut their criticsism down by saying exactly one of the lines I just said.

   "I like how people are already trying to critique A20 even though we've had a very low amount of information on the update"

 

  That response adds nothing to BrunoFuturista's concern but yet that reply is almost the only kind of reply any one with a negative or valid concern is going to get from any of the members here. (Not all but more often than not)

 

  I like to play those kind of character too, just not all the time,(In 7DTD I prefer to min/max to be a zombie slaying fiend.) I know we all have different play styles, of course we do.  But removing the old system to be replaced with the new armor one strips that choice of choosing a play style and I now have to play a style of managing my strenghts and weaknesses.     

   Again I'm not against the armor sets themselves, why not just have both systems just add the armor sets in and you now have a choice of min/max your character or use gear that makes you manage your strenght and weaknesses.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Pwn3dg4m3r (see edit history)

[Pwn3dg4m3r]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

This is called a conjecture. Please read the wikipedia article on what a "fact" is. 

 

If you think this is beside the point, sorry it is not. If you just want to emphasize that you are so sure of it that you don't accept any dissenting opinion on that, just say so, but please don't use the word "fact". It has been misused a lot lately.

 

 

This is a discussion forum, anyone is allowed to post opinions as well as opinions on opinions of other posters. If your post wasn't allowed, a moderator would have deleted it. It still is here, you just got involved in a discussion where (almost?) everyone else seems to have a different opinion.

Nobody will stop you from critizising, but nobody will stop others from talking to you and possibly telling you you are wrong.

 

 As to not just repost what i replied to Roland with just refer to my post to him minus the "you've been polite" part cause of your "go educute yourself on wikipedia" snooty remark.

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

As to not just repost what i replied to Roland with just refer to my post to him minus the "you've been polite" part cause of your "go educute yourself on wikipedia" snooty remark.

 

3 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

I mean that the general attitude of the memebers here from what I've encountered and seen from reading other post is that if its in any way negative towards the game forum members will try to discredit or marginalize the poster

So basically you're saying that this forum is against you "because", and the comments have nothing to do with your opinion being actually unpopular.

Hmm... ok. 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Pwn3dg4m3r said:

 As to not just repost what i replied to Roland with just refer to my post to him minus the "you've been polite" part cause of your "go educute yourself on wikipedia" snooty remark.

Wikipedia is an independent source of information. It is an easy way to define terms that people in a discussion use differently and then possibly go into a rather senseless argument about it. Show me something written in wikipedia and I will generally accept it as true.

 

If you think this is impolite then tell me how to do it better? Should I lecture you myself like a teacher? Should I make fun of you?

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Should I lecture you myself like a teacher?

WOW!........That’s low, mein bruder...

 

😂

[meganoth]

47 minutes ago, Roland said:

WOW!........That’s low, mein bruder...

 

😂

Message to all: I don't know this ... teacher. He just seems to have popped out of nowhere. And he calls himself "super", in green letters! That alone should ring all our alarm bells.

 

😁

[Blake_]

Don't mind me, I've got the pop corn right here.

 

I believe people with less than 10 posts are entitled to ban Roland, for they are pure souls not tainted by arthritic fingers. Just my extremely valuable opinion. 

[MechanicalLens]

4 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Don't mind me, I've got the pop corn right here.

 

I believe people with less than 10 posts are entitled to ban Roland, for they are pure souls not tainted by arthritic fingers. Just my extremely valuable opinion. 

 

Speaking of which, I wonder what would happen if I blocked Roland? Maybe reported his posts? What would he do about that?  😜

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Nekrolysis said:

Something I'd like to see for them would be a toggle for them to go max speed

You already can do that, just keep SHIFT pressed on your keyboard while driving (not a toggle ok, but...).

[Nekrolysis]

Just now, Jost Amman said:

You already can do that, just keep SHIFT pressed on your keyboard while driving (not a toggle ok, but...).

Hurts my pinky holding it down for so long! Give me toggle or give me a bum pinky☠️