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Roland

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Steam desk is arch based so the native version must run. Same to windows version through proton because runs out the box. And if anticheat works it will open the field even more. What I don't know is if the hardware can handle it, but if my ancient a-10 can I suppose it will

 

Looks very cool in general, will see what comes out. If valve honor what promise I'll be in line for one.

Edited by RBN (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, Renathras said:

I like spears, but I'd like them more if I could do knife things with them.  The machete and steel knuckles let me save an inventory slot as they double as animal harvesting tools.  Oddly, neither spears nor axes do this, even though both have blades and spears should arguably make a better harvesting tool for game than anything other than the hunting knife itself.  It's still odd to me that they don't (I don't think...?) work that way.

 

They are less efficient than a knife, but they do work. The only thing surprising is that the spear is practically on the same level as the club and worse than the axe, but if you assume that the spear isn't like it is depicted but just like a cone with a sharp tip then it might make more sense. Someone might make a bug report and say the spear should be better than the club at this. But the answer could very well be that for balancing reasons it works this way and balance trumps realism.

 

7 hours ago, Renathras said:

Then again, I also liked when I could use the fireman axe and the pipe wrench as a weapon, ala Half-Life.  Anyone who's ever held a pipe wrench knows taking a blow from one of those to the head would not be a fun day.  It's odd to me that those are considered harvesting tools and not weapons with their own weapon skill lines.  Though I guess they're scattered across the harvesting lines.  Especially the steal axe, as that thing looks like some kind of Viking battleaxe of myth.

 

Again balance I would suspect. The axes would simply be overpowered if they doubled as an efficient weapon. So they still are quite good weapons but never reach the level of a perked "weapon" weapon. They also are not full harvesting tools, I just tested it and they are somewhere inbetween spears and knifes in terms of animal harvest. At least the stone axe has to be relatively good at harvesting because it is the @%$#ty "swiss army knife" of the lvl1 character.

 

7 hours ago, Renathras said:

I am curious if there's ever going to be a pass of skills.  Right now, Intellect has the bulk of the skills, meaning if you're playing a game with friends and trying to focus, whoever has Int has to spread their skills across medicine, workbench stuff, and vehicle stuff.  Meanwhile, cooking is under Strength and gardening under Fortitude.  Perception and Agility seem to have no "group friendly" skills like that.  I'm not sure what the solution is, but I feel like unloading some of Intellect's craftlines onto other skills would be nice.  Granted, solo players would hate this because it means they can't just go all-in on Intellect to triple-dip.  But...solo players are also eventually going to get all skills anyway, and it seems like there should be SOME solution that makes things better for everyone...

 

Ah, you mean "group friendly" skill spread, at first I was confused about this paragraph. The solution is to accept that the INT player is the best support class of multiplayer games whereas all except agility have at least one group support skill. Even perception: Animal tracker is a support skill unless he uses all that meat for grilled meat instead of giving it to the cook. Salvage is a support skill since the wrenched materials are needed by the whole group. The only non-support class is agility.

 

I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Especially since even single players can get by with specializing in any attribute (not only INT) and putting a few single points in perks of other trees. You don't need the vehicle perk at 5 to thrive in 7D2D, almost anything can be got just by looting and buying.

 

7 hours ago, Renathras said:

Anyway, those are just my two cents.  Reading all of this has me excited for A20 when it hits!  I especially like that me and my two friends will all be able to cram into a 4x4 now.  If only we could slap an M60 on it and make it into a makeshift Warthog.......  ;) Even better if we could stick a seat on either side of the Gyro for 3 person flying fun.

 

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4 hours ago, RBN said:

And i agree with this, I have had NVIDIAs cards and they was a PIA in linux. Maybe I don't express myself well; the native linux build doesn't perform bad but the windows version through proton/wine performs better. Maybe because proton use vulkan....?

Anyway both works better than the windows version in windows 7 in the same machine and not by a little...In windows is between 20-40 and in linux is between 35-50 with almost 60 inside mines, rooms,etc and more stable. In windows the yellow fps is common and in linux is rare (only sometimes in  BM)

I just feel like the native version should always perform better when you have the recommended hardware. This is not unlike most games I've looked at on Proton. It seems like the wine version always runs better and yeah it probably is vulkan.

I appreciate your input though, I'm gonna go ahead and install 7dtd on my mint cinnamon and have it ready for update so I can test a little when alpha 20 releases. I do use a Nvidia Gpu, and a Razer mouse(no Hotkey software) so I'm still convinced on just using native windows for gaming for now 😕

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11 minutes ago, friendlyx3 said:

I just feel like the native version should always perform better when you have the recommended hardware. This is not unlike most games I've looked at on Proton. It seems like the wine version always runs better and yeah it probably is vulkan.

I appreciate your input though, I'm gonna go ahead and install 7dtd on my mint cinnamon and have it ready for update so I can test a little when alpha 20 releases. I do use a Nvidia Gpu, and a Razer mouse(no Hotkey software) so I'm still convinced on just using native windows for gaming for now 😕

 

Did you test the native version with vulkan as well? I don't know the state of Nvidias vulkan support, but I play with vulkan on Linux with an AMD card and while I can't say anything about the relative performance I can say that vulkan can be used natively too, you don't necessarily need wine for that.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Saw the stream it was pretty damn cool i love the new stuff shown

but a few feedback points
 

  •  Feral weight: hes still not scary looking. just give him no skin LMAO
  • Solder: I love the solder and the guts hanging out but the vest.... Its cool on paper but sense 7DTD can't have random bodies/Models per zombie. you got to think about when you see a group of them.  What i would do is keep the model but the vest that is jiggly... just staple it back on, just make it look torn. Aside from that i love it
  • Spider: I love it still
  • Screamer: I love it so much i want to kiss it
  • Cop: the game is set in the future so why is he dressed up like a cop from the 60s. he got a revolver and a Light blue outfit. What i would do is just make his shirt a Navy blue rather then baby blue
  • Radzombie (IM CALLING HIM PAUL): Looks cool Hope he gives me rad damage or heals near by zombies
  • Zombie Doge: I like it but... WHY DOES IT HAVE BALLS! also (this is me sense im just like this) i would make the dog look like a Fully rotten dog, no ears, barely and skin. but keep the outline of the dog. i like to think having generic zombies is best in some parts
  • Nurse: I love her but in the Image i kind of wish they showed her Jaw being broken. 
  • Lab worker: she looks great hope she spawns with the nurse
  • Hazmat. hope they give him something special. Like fire resistance or gives Heavy infection



    Overall can't wait for Alpha 20 but my PC is going to die 

Cop looks this way because this alternative universe when punks were wearing martial art clothes, hippies prefered long boots , JFK kill sniper using HMG and newsstands were base of USA economy because nobody trust banks :)

Honestly  soldier need 2 more models in my opinion. 

Btw spider looks more like clone frome kiling floor or spider man enemy that zombie XD

 

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15 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Yeh the cool special looking things on these new zombies will even further showcase the lack of zombie diversity in game.  It'd be cool if there were regular mundane zombies but when you see 50 soldiers coming at you and they all have the same vest tear and same exact guts bouncing around, it'll really highlight just how badly the game needs variants.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're cool looking AF, but I'm still right.

 

My *recommendation* would be to take a zombie, say the soldier, make ONE version and then have different children on the mesh have the variations, then on spawn roll a random number to decide which child is shown and which is hidden, so that you can have multiple variants using the same model.  One child has the guts, another a bite wound, another a clothing tear, another a sidearm, another a rank insignia, etc... all hidden, then on spawn it decides which 1, 2 or 3 of those children get shown, and voila, instant variants.

 

I know this method already works, because science tells me so. 😃 

I think it coudn't work because of reasons. Like this  is too late/ too much of work to make this and better to get gold/ bandits

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Just now, Matt115 said:

I think it coudn't work because of reasons. Like this  is too late/ too much of work to make this and better to get gold/ bandits

I'd have agreed with that a few years ago, but this already is the what, 4th?  5th? time they've redone zombies?

 

...I dunno, if they do it right, they can set themselves up for the future.  Hell, they don't even really need to stop what they're doing, just add more mesh elements that can be shown/hidden.

 

But yeh, I know they won't do it.

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2 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

I'd have agreed with that a few years ago, but this already is the what, 4th?  5th? time they've redone zombies?

 

...I dunno, if they do it right, they can set themselves up for the future.  Hell, they don't even really need to stop what they're doing, just add more mesh elements that can be shown/hidden.

 

But yeh, I know they won't do it.

Well honestly they added a lot of variants and then cut them. so number of zombie variants is small . Fact their looks good but they not enough number

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11 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

More zombies is the #2 most requested m-word (more guns being #1 by far).  I get the why they don't do it, but I don't like it. 😃

Honestly i accept small number of guns- well this is not cod, kiling floor,  resident evil so it doesn't need 20 types of pistol but more zombie variant are neccesary- even nacht der toten from cod WaW had a lot of variant and  dead island , dying light,  l4d2 etc. It's hurt a lot when you have "clone attack" so in my opinion it should be one of the most important thing- bandits can looks almost this same- just put masks and baracudas on their faces make 5 models and 4 colour variants and you will get 20 types of bandits. But zombies need to looks diffrent to avoid clone war syndrome

Just now, Jost Amman said:

And banks were run by skeletons! :madgrin:

Yep!!!!

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3 hours ago, friendlyx3 said:

I just feel like the native version should always perform better when you have the recommended hardware. This is not unlike most games I've looked at on Proton. It seems like the wine version always runs better and yeah it probably is vulkan.

I appreciate your input though, I'm gonna go ahead and install 7dtd on my mint cinnamon and have it ready for update so I can test a little when alpha 20 releases. I do use a Nvidia Gpu, and a Razer mouse(no Hotkey software) so I'm still convinced on just using native windows for gaming for now 😕

I am inclined to think is vulkan too. the native version have more fps selecting vulkan render. Unfortunately sometimes i get texture errors (pink sky or ground) and random crashes using it.

 

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Did you test the native version with vulkan as well? I don't know the state of Nvidias vulkan support, but I play with vulkan on Linux with an AMD card and while I can't say anything about the relative performance I can say that vulkan can be used natively too, you don't necessarily need wine for that.

 

Don't you have wrong textures and crashes with a19?

I used to run it that way in a18 but with a19 is very inconsistent. Sometime seems to going well and crash without apparent reaseon and others times load with the sky or the ground pink or all the screen black and only the UI element render

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having zombies variation using child objects would be cool, and always look better, hats, small props, etc. tho it does implies a lot more work.

 

Texture variations while it takes some work.... them having the original maps and all that its just a bit more work and looks good enough if you make it properly in all maps to give more life to the world with not such a big hit on bundle size. you can have a few different things going on for each zed, like adding some logo to the shirt to make boe look like he was working at crack a book or stuff like that. not really that hard to do.

 

in the old models you could play around more making parts invisible using the texture only, without removing mesh parts, exmaple you could make helmets, hats go away because the head was full below, i think that is not the case in the new models anymore.

 

im going back to my cave, has fun all.

pd: it will always be called bubbles, embrace it.

Edited by Mumpfy
broken english of course (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Yeh the cool special looking things on these new zombies will even further showcase the lack of zombie diversity in game.  It'd be cool if there were regular mundane zombies but when you see 50 soldiers coming at you and they all have the same vest tear and same exact guts bouncing around, it'll really highlight just how badly the game needs variants.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're cool looking AF, but I'm still right.

 

My *recommendation* would be to take a zombie, say the soldier, make ONE version and then have different children on the mesh have the variations, then on spawn roll a random number to decide which child is shown and which is hidden, so that you can have multiple variants using the same model.  One child has the guts, another a bite wound, another a clothing tear, another a sidearm, another a rank insignia, etc... all hidden, then on spawn it decides which 1, 2 or 3 of those children get shown, and voila, instant variants.

 

I know this method already works, because science tells me so. 😃 

so would that be something like a loot pool? Have groups of different zombie types (eg. Cop group, Worker group, Soldier group, etc) and then just randomly pick some from each group to spawn?

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3 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Yeh the cool special looking things on these new zombies will even further showcase the lack of zombie diversity in game.  It'd be cool if there were regular mundane zombies but when you see 50 soldiers coming at you and they all have the same vest tear and same exact guts bouncing around, it'll really highlight just how badly the game needs variants.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're cool looking AF, but I'm still right.

 

My *recommendation* would be to take a zombie, say the soldier, make ONE version and then have different children on the mesh have the variations, then on spawn roll a random number to decide which child is shown and which is hidden, so that you can have multiple variants using the same model.  One child has the guts, another a bite wound, another a clothing tear, another a sidearm, another a rank insignia, etc... all hidden, then on spawn it decides which 1, 2 or 3 of those children get shown, and voila, instant variants.

 

I know this method already works, because science tells me so. 😃 

i updated them


 

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8 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

They are less efficient than a knife, but they do work. The only thing surprising is that the spear is practically on the same level as the club and worse than the axe, but if you assume that the spear isn't like it is depicted but just like a cone with a sharp tip then it might make more sense. Someone might make a bug report and say the spear should be better than the club at this. But the answer could very well be that for balancing reasons it works this way and balance trumps realism.

 


Yeah, I'm a really visual person.  I've long held that I can play old games and games with bad graphics as long as they are consistent in what they're trying to portray (and have good gameplay and story).  So when I see the steel knuckles, I think "This thing can harvest animals because of the knives on the knuckles".  Then when I see the stone spear, I'm like "This thing should harvest animals really really well" because (for anyone who knows about skinning or preparing animal meats) spears like the stone spear tip were used by ancient civilizations for exactly this purpose.  Longish, flat, and jagged edged blades.  It's also why the stone axe makes sense in this purpose.  You could do it with a fireman axe, but it would be more difficult since the weight is off and the hand motion you're going for are relatively short, quick, straight rubbing strokes, whereas a fireman axe is weighted for breaking through walls and doors and such to get at trapped people to save them.

I'm not sure "balance trumps reason" is always a good policy, though.  Not to mention nothing is perfectly balanced anyway.  :)  I mean, we could argue that the HUNTING KNIFE should be the best animal harvesting weapon in the game, meaning even players using machetes would need to carry a hunting knife on their person for maximum efficiency when hunting.  Indeed, the machete's shape and weight would actually make it a poor skinning tool because the length.  With the spear, you could hold it just below the head and make your strokes, while with the machete, you're doing so with a much shorter lever arm and a much longer cutting edge, which would make it less useful for that, I'd think.  Not to mention, as a person that likes the hunting knife's attack animation better (for some reason, it's WAY easier for me to get headshots with, even though it's a narrow collision box, because it's straight down the middle of my screen unlike the machete), I honestly wouldn't mind this all that much...

Same with axes.  When my eyes see that steel axe, I would THINK that would be the most damaging weapon in the game.  Think about getting hit with any of the game's weapons and the only one that comes close to the raw damage the steel axe would do would be the steel sledgehammer.  The steel axe has the steel sledgehammer's weight (or close to it), with not one but THREE cutting edges at slightly different insets added to it.  This should cause TREMENDOUS physical damage to anything it hits, first from the blunt force of weight, which would be similar to the steel sledgehammer's, but then from the slash, since no amount of zombie flesh is going to stop that much momentum with a bladed edge until it cuts its way out the other side of whatever limb or area it hits.  And considering that war axes were a more commonly used weapon than warhammers, complete with warriors training in their use specifically for combat, I think that's all the reason we need to see it deserves its own skill line.  :) Hammers and wrenches less so, they just make good makeshift clubs.  Though I think I'd rather get dinged in the head with a baseball bat than a pipe wrench, personally...

I do wish we had more Swiss army knives.  Swiss army knives are fun in games, but developers avoid them like the plague.  Trading versatility for a bit of power. 

And yeah, "group friendly" skill as in "things you can do for the group".  Every now and then I'll play a world with up to 4 friends (VERY rarely 5), and we tend to run into the problem that one or two people in the group feel kind of worthless to the group if we each choose a single skill line to go down.  And the person that picks Intellect is the most valuable to the group, but tends to feel like they have no good combat capability because batons and turrets aren't really like most of the other weapon systems in the game.

But, as I said, I'm not sure the solution other than maybe moving medicine to Fortitude and gardening to Agility or something...

.

Granted, I don't expect any changes (though the spear with harvesting would be a cool one...!), just these are things I've noticed over time playing with the game's visuals don't match up to what my brain expectations of them are.  Or, to put it another way, where the visuals are kind of telling a different story, which kind of misleads the player as to what they should do.  As you say, if the spear was just a pointy stick, it obviously wouldn't be an issue because a simple point isn't a great flesh/meat harvesting shape.

EDIT:  Don't get me wrong, I still absolutely love this game.  Just little things here and there I'd change.

Another is the loot system.  I know a lot of people hated the old system, but it's weird to me that so few zombies can be looted, Oblivion/Skyrim style (especially ones that are clearly wearing/carrying usable game items, like the Lumberjack boots and jeans or the Cop pistols).  While some of this can be handwaved as "the ones they were wearing were too torn up/destroyed to be useful", at least for the guns, you'd think there'd be some parts to salvage.  And the big yellow backpack drop is just...weird...vs the old way.  Though I get it's because in Alpha 15 or whenever that change was made the bodies would decompose, causing people to lose loot if they weren't able to quickly gather it all during horde nights.

.

I'm also really excited to see the power restoration mission.  The idea of objective based missions that would be a realistic thing someone would be doing in a zombie apocalypse sounds neat to me.  Something other than "kill all zombies" or "get this random package we stashed in this random place".  Makes me excited on what the future of missions might be...

Edited by Renathras
Edit marked in text. (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, Renathras said:


Yeah, I'm a really visual person.  I've long held that I can play old games and games with bad graphics as long as they are consistent in what they're trying to portray (and have good gameplay and story).  So when I see the steel knuckles, I think "This thing can harvest animals because of the knives on the knuckles".  Then when I see the stone spear, I'm like "This thing should harvest animals really really well" because (for anyone who knows about skinning or preparing animal meats) spears like the stone spear tip were used by ancient civilizations for exactly this purpose.  Longish, flat, and jagged edged blades.  It's also why the stone axe makes sense in this purpose.  You could do it with a fireman axe, but it would be more difficult since the weight is off and the hand motion you're going for are relatively short, quick, straight rubbing strokes, whereas a fireman axe is weighted for breaking through walls and doors and such to get at trapped people to save them.

I'm not sure "balance trumps reason" is always a good policy, though.  Not to mention nothing is perfectly balanced anyway.  :)  I mean, we could argue that the HUNTING KNIFE should be the best animal harvesting weapon in the game, meaning even players using machetes would need to carry a hunting knife on their person for maximum efficiency when hunting.  Indeed, the machete's shape and weight would actually make it a poor skinning tool because the length.  With the spear, you could hold it just below the head and make your strokes, while with the machete, you're doing so with a much shorter lever arm and a much longer cutting edge, which would make it less useful for that, I'd think.  Not to mention, as a person that likes the hunting knife's attack animation better (for some reason, it's WAY easier for me to get headshots with, even though it's a narrow collision box, because it's straight down the middle of my screen unlike the machete), I honestly wouldn't mind this all that much...

Same with axes.  When my eyes see that steel axe, I would THINK that would be the most damaging weapon in the game.  Think about getting hit with any of the game's weapons and the only one that comes close to the raw damage the steel axe would do would be the steel sledgehammer.  The steel axe has the steel sledgehammer's weight (or close to it), with not one but THREE cutting edges at slightly different insets added to it.  This should cause TREMENDOUS physical damage to anything it hits, first from the blunt force of weight, which would be similar to the steel sledgehammer's, but then from the slash, since no amount of zombie flesh is going to stop that much momentum with a bladed edge until it cuts its way out the other side of whatever limb or area it hits.  And considering that war axes were a more commonly used weapon than warhammers, complete with warriors training in their use specifically for combat, I think that's all the reason we need to see it deserves its own skill line.  :) Hammers and wrenches less so, they just make good makeshift clubs.  Though I think I'd rather get dinged in the head with a baseball bat than a pipe wrench, personally...

I do wish we had more Swiss army knives.  Swiss army knives are fun in games, but developers avoid them like the plague.  Trading versatility for a bit of power. 

And yeah, "group friendly" skill as in "things you can do for the group".  Every now and then I'll play a world with up to 4 friends (VERY rarely 5), and we tend to run into the problem that one or two people in the group feel kind of worthless to the group if we each choose a single skill line to go down.  And the person that picks Intellect is the most valuable to the group, but tends to feel like they have no good combat capability because batons and turrets aren't really like most of the other weapon systems in the game.

But, as I said, I'm not sure the solution other than maybe moving medicine to Fortitude and gardening to Agility or something...

.

Granted, I don't expect any changes (though the spear with harvesting would be a cool one...!), just these are things I've noticed over time playing with the game's visuals don't match up to what my brain expectations of them are.  Or, to put it another way, where the visuals are kind of telling a different story, which kind of misleads the player as to what they should do.  As you say, if the spear was just a pointy stick, it obviously wouldn't be an issue because a simple point isn't a great flesh/meat harvesting shape.

Okay : i will try to explain how to work. knifes have tiers - better tier better weapon. So machete is rly good knife. Axes are more tools in this game  that weapons . So if you had axes so powefull that sledhammer ( but without armor piercing for example) nobody wanted to use sledhammer because this would be waste of resources and slot in eq. So they were forced to do in this way to avoid "total war syndrome" - a lot of things in game but players use only few of them

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, Guppycur said:

it'll really highlight just how badly the game needs variants.

Couldn't agree more. I also stated that in another forum here, that with these new looking models (even tho they look cooler) you can see duplicates even easier from far away than with the older models. Because the older models looked a little closer to each other, you couldn't see clones from a distance so easily. 

 

It would be very epic if they made the zombie models themselves bald and with just underwear, and have a random shirt and random pants spawn with a random color and a random hairstyle, although I can imagine that that is a lot of work to make. It is indeed weird to see multiple exact same zombies, with the same scars, eyeballs hanging out, clothing styles, a jiggling hand etc exactly the same way.

 

But, this is absolutely no hate or whatsoever, because the game is looking spookier with the new models, which I love (and I think most people do).

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6 hours ago, RBN said:

I am inclined to think is vulkan too. the native version have more fps selecting vulkan render. Unfortunately sometimes i get texture errors (pink sky or ground) and random crashes using it.

 

Don't you have wrong textures and crashes with a19?

I used to run it that way in a18 but with a19 is very inconsistent. Sometime seems to going well and crash without apparent reaseon and others times load with the sky or the ground pink or all the screen black and only the UI element render

 

I have no wrong textures and also no crashes. I assume it is because I have an RX580. That GPU series is just the right age. Not too young to still have bugs in the GPU drivers and not too old for this game.

 

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11 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I have no wrong textures and also no crashes. I assume it is because I have an RX580. That GPU series is just the right age. Not too young to still have bugs in the GPU drivers and not too old for this game.

 

That is my card too, paired with a a-10.

I tested again and i got pink texture again. Googling a bit found some post about similar problem in another games and they recommend erasing the mesa shader cache and some radv files in .cache and is seems to be working. At least the textures are normal. No time to play long to test crash.

Seems that the textures cached with proton doesn't mix well running in native? that makes any sense? No idea

 

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