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A20 Developer Diary Discussions


Roland

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1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Do you think the upcoming update is worth 1.5 years of expectations, or will it be disappointing?

 

Dissapointed, but I already expect to be disappointed, so in turn I won't be disappointed.  

 

I don't use the built in random gen so I'm not sure I will even notice the improvements -- there are already several good ways to already generate good maps.  So unless the results are far beyond my expectations -- then I see no difference.  The funniest part of this one is they used to defend the random gen. I personally made several posts on how bad it was (after A16) until giving up on it and moving on to other methods. -- I got skewered by players.. devs.. and everyone in between.  So, at least they have seen the light and are fixing it.

 

Primitive weapons will be cool for the first few days until they are junk.

 

Smaller upgrade path to materials - not good.

 

The things looked the most interesting to me got pushed to to A21 -- character overhaul and AI/sleeper improvements.

 

My feeling is Madmole is not interested in this Alpha as he was A18/19 -- this has all the signs of another A17 turd.

Edited by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:

 

Dissapointed, but I already expect to be disappointed, so in turn I won't be disappointed.  

 

I don't use the built in random gen so I'm not sure I will even notice the improvements -- there are already several good ways to already generate good maps.  So unless the results are far beyond my expectations -- then I see no difference.  The funniest part of this one is they used to defend the random gen. I personally made several posts on how bad it was (after A16) until giving up on it and moving on to other methods. -- I got skewered by players.. devs.. and everyone in between.  So, at least they have seen the light and are fixing it.

 

Primitive weapons will be cool for the first few days until they are junk.

 

Smaller upgrade path to materials - not good.

 

The things looked the most interesting to me got pushed to to A21 -- character overhaul and AI/sleeper improvements.

 

My feeling is Madmole is not interested in this Alpha as he was A18/19 -- this has all the signs of another A17 turd.

honestly i think idea with primitive guns are "cool" for 1 - 2 hours and you will miss blunderbass

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1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:

 

Dissapointed, but I already expect to be disappointed, so in turn I won't be disappointed.  

 

I don't use the built in random gen so I'm not sure I will even notice the improvements -- there are already several good ways to already generate good maps.  So unless the results are far beyond my expectations -- then I see no difference.  The funniest part of this one is they used to defend the random gen. I personally made several posts on how bad it was (after A16) until giving up on it and moving on to other methods. -- I got skewered by players.. devs.. and everyone in between.  So, at least they have seen the light and are fixing it.

 

Primitive weapons will be cool for the first few days until they are junk.

 

Smaller upgrade path to materials - not good.

 

The things looked the most interesting to me got pushed to to A21 -- character overhaul and AI/sleeper improvements.

 

My feeling is Madmole is not interested in this Alpha as he was A18/19 -- this has all the signs of another A17 turd.

Random Gen I mostly agree. They seemed fine until A16(ish) they became sparse uninteresting worlds. What’s been shown of the tile system looks great to me but I guess we won’t know for a month or two or three.

Madmole in some thread months ago mentioned he wasn’t working on or playing much 7D2D most of his time was going to an unannounced game.

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14 hours ago, Rabbitslovecactus said:

Would be amazing if every map had a highway from the city to the map boundary that looked like this. Is that in the works? Would be great for car looting and also look really amazing!

 

See the source image

 

The Walking Dead!!! Yes, the city's from there would fit epicly in the 7 Days to Die world

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1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

I think the only think I miss about the BUSS is its loud and in your face hand cannon like feel.  I have always enjoyed black powder type weapons in many different games.

 

Also...who doesn't like role playing as a pirate? argggh!

 

 

well blunderbuss ammo is cheap so you safe normal ammo for good guns like smg, shotgun or sniper rifle . junk guns are pointless in my opinon because - they are too weak to be usefull and waste of ammo for good weapons 

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45 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

In what world I could possibly miss a blunderbuss when I can make a pipe machine gun?

because why do a gun which will make a low number of dmg and have low durability when you can save your ammo for good weapons? in A18 on 7 days i usually had  shotgun + sniper rifle and my friend crossbow and smg. and we have at least 1 stock of ammo for each guns. at the end of night we usualy had maybe 1-2 bullets?  so blunderbass  is more usefull that wasting ammo

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5 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Do you think the upcoming update is worth 1.5 years of expectations, or will it be disappointing?

 

3 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Dissapointed, but I already expect to be disappointed, so in turn I won't be disappointed.  

 

I don't use the built in random gen so I'm not sure I will even notice the improvements -- there are already several good ways to already generate good maps.  So unless the results are far beyond my expectations -- then I see no difference.

 

It's not your fault for not knowing since the devs have been more tight-lipped than usual regarding A20 but you cannot begin to understand what an upgrade the world has gotten with the tile system, the dynamic distant terrain, and all the POI updates along with the new POIs. There are POIs that people dreamed of seeing years ago and probably gave up on but they are in the game and amazingly integrated.

 

Sure, you may still want to use a 3rd party world generator for A20 over the advanced world generator interface the devs have made with its sliders as I think there are still not quite as many options in the Vanilla generator as there are in the fan created versions. But you will definitely notice an improvement in the world itself no matter how it is generated-- in particular towns and cities. It kills me that I can't show it to you and can only talk in generalities. 

 

My only consolation is knowing how happy you will be not being disappointed. A20 is definitely a step up and when you see it and play it you will agree that the end is now in sight. This has got to be their last major technical overhaul update and from now until release it will mainly be remaining missing content which will make the next 1 or 2 alphas much more exciting. Still. though, this update has improved the current state of the game by a magnitude.

 

4 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

My feeling is Madmole is not interested in this Alpha as he was A18/19 -- this has all the signs of another A17 turd.

 

Because of the nature of what was focused on this time around, Madmole has been less involved. Once they get to content lock, he will start getting more involved again. His main contribution is balance and tuning gameplay and with new builds always getting committed and stuff getting broken it is pointless for him to try and play a long game where he can make the adjustments he feels are important. A17 was a turd in the eyes of many because of all the things it undid and changed from A16 that were unexpected.

 

So far A20 plays very similarly to A19. There have been no major departures like there was in A17. The thing we heard the most with A17 was that people wished TFP had just enhanced A16. Well, A20 is just an enhanced A19. There is a ton of new places to explore and experience. Feral mode really adds a lot. I play with it on during the day all the time now. That is my new default. When you can see your base along with other buildings from far away it just really enhances the feeling. No more is it invisible until you are right on top of it. The new primitive weapons make the slow progression in loot a lot more enjoyable than it currently is in A19. I haven't tried the new generator quests yet so I can't comment on those.

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14 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

because why do a gun which will make a low number of dmg and have low durability when you can save your ammo for good weapons? in A18 on 7 days i usually had  shotgun + sniper rifle and my friend crossbow and smg. and we have at least 1 stock of ammo for each guns. at the end of night we usualy had maybe 1-2 bullets?  so blunderbass  is more usefull that wasting ammo

Because it will hit targets before they are in melee range of you, it won't screw you over if you miss one shot, and it will keep firing until the target is dead. I don't recall what was the last alpha I crafted ammo, and I stopped doing so because I didn't need it on that alpha.  So... saving ammo for what? The only use for a gun is when you get surprised by an enemy that can do a lot of damage in a short time -- dog hordes, bears, wolves, irradiated zombie mobs. Fortunately we have better guns by the time the latter is a concern, but a blunderbuss is awful to deal with the others. If primitive vs tier 1 tools and weapons are anything to go by, a mid-quality pipe machine gun is going to be on par with a quality 1 ak, and I'd *never* trader a quality 1 ak for a blunderbuss, no matter the quality.

 

Also, if pipe weapons repair with pipes then who cares about durability? If they take repair kits it will be slightly annoying, but still worth it in my book.

Edited by dcsobral (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Roland said:

 

 

It's not your fault for not knowing since the devs have been more tight-lipped than usual regarding A20 but you cannot begin to understand what an upgrade the world has gotten with the tile system, the dynamic distant terrain, and all the POI updates along with the new POIs. There are POIs that people dreamed of seeing years ago and probably gave up on but they are in the game and amazingly integrated.

 

 

Honestly i want newsstand  XD  but i know you can't tell a lot about new POI but honestly - i think a lot of people want big POI like airports, dam or hospital on stadion with a lot of copses tents medical stuff etc. can't we expect that? probably not. we will get jest more houses and shops.  so nothing "amazing" just more. i don't want only complain so i think what could be great? just let them watch maps in l4d2- a lot of railways, bridges, baricades on roads trucks, car tunnels, multi -storey cars parking m big military bases with crashed planes tanks a lot of corpses. amusement park . i think nobody expect get this in A20 so i understand snowdog 

1 minute ago, dcsobral said:

Because it will hit targets before they are in melee range of you, it won't screw you over if you miss one shot, and it will keep firing until the target is dead. I don't recall what was the last alpha I crafted ammo, and I stopped doing so because I didn't need it on that alpha.  So... saving ammo for what? The only use for a gun is when you get surprised by an enemy that can do a lot of damage in a short time -- dog hordes, bears, wolves, irradiated zombie mobs. Fortunately we have better guns by the time the latter is a concern, but a blunderbuss is awful to deal with the others. If primitive vs tier 1 tools and weapons are anything to go by, a mid-quality pipe machine gun is going to be on par with a quality 1 ak, and I'd *never* trader a quality 1 ak for a blunderbuss, no matter the quality.

well this is good enough for birds and dogs. rest you can kill using bow or crossbow or melee.  well ak and blunderbuss is diffrent category of weapon you know? 3 quality blunderbuss with  2 perks can cheaper so more usefull that 1 quality shotgun

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32 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly i want newsstand  XD  but i know you can't tell a lot about new POI but honestly - i think a lot of people want big POI like airports, dam or hospital on stadion with a lot of copses tents medical stuff etc. can't we expect that? probably not. we will get jest more houses and shops.  so nothing "amazing" just more. i don't want only complain so i think what could be great? just let them watch maps in l4d2- a lot of railways, bridges, baricades on roads trucks, car tunnels, multi -storey cars parking m big military bases with crashed planes tanks a lot of corpses. amusement park . i think nobody expect get this in A20 so i understand snowdog

 

I heard a rumor about a newsstand with 1 shoe only 😉

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3 hours ago, Burrfly said:

The Walking Dead!!! Yes, the city's from there would fit epicly in the 7 Days to Die world

I was mostly talking about the large highway full of cars, but yeah the city looks great too. 👍

Also, I was wondering if the game will be getting rudimentary weapons that can be seen and found in the world? For example: I see a lead pipe, crowbar, 2x4 wood, etc.. laying on the ground, I pick it up and use it, no crafting required. Similar to how we see stones, pick them up and use them. Would be nice to see more basic weapons. 

Edited by Rabbitslovecactus (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

 

Maybe the blunderbuss could be retrofitted into a primitive rocket launcher like the broadsider in fo76 lol...

Actually. I like it! It could launch pipe bombs as ammo, loading like a blunderbuss. Make a big “boom” when firing, pipe rolling everywhere, second boom. Happiness as zombies fly all over the place. 

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On 8/11/2021 at 2:54 PM, BFT2020 said:

Remember that Concrete and Reinforced concrete are getting merged into one stage of upgrades / blocks, and the new block will be balanced to account for that.  We just won't have to do as many clicks on the upgrade path that we have to do today (what is it today:  Frame - wood - reinf wood - cobblestone - concrete - reinf concrete - steel).

 

I am not a programmer but I expect TFP will set it up so that Concrete block A (regular concrete) and Concrete Block B (reinf concrete) will be changed into Concrete Block C (the new concrete block for Alpha 20) in order to minimize the work in converting over existing POIs.


Yeah and I hope it doesn’t suck.

I miss the days of crafting rebar, laying it in place then coming back with a bucket full of concrete to fill the rebar blocks. I sort of like mini tedious tasks.

I still miss zombies destroying crops and have to water them daily or digging an irrigation trench.

however

I can appreciate why others don’t like those tasks.

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15 hours ago, BrunoFuturista said:

I have a question, since alpha 20 will receive pipe weapons and will remove the blunderbuss, will there be spsecific ammo for this ammo( some kind of low tier ammo like "makeshift pipe pistol ammo") like the blunderbuss ammo? 

 

ive been thinking abou this latly and it kind makes sence to make some makeshift ammo for the pipe weapons, not only add new tipes of ammo (low tier) but also an easy way to get ammo, i imagine the recipe being 1 gunpowder, 1 scrap metal and 1 paper or wood, imagine wood casing, that would be quite interesting.

 

but for now thats my teory, back to the question, would anithing like that be added in alpha 20?

 

No more unique ammo will be added. The pipe pistol will use 9mm, the pipe shotgun will use shotgun shells, etc.

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4 hours ago, Fanatical_Meat said:


Yeah and I hope it doesn’t suck.

I miss the days of crafting rebar, laying it in place then coming back with a bucket full of concrete to fill the rebar blocks. I sort of like mini tedious tasks.

I still miss zombies destroying crops and have to water them daily or digging an irrigation trench.

however

I can appreciate why others don’t like those tasks.

 

Yeah those details can be fun.  Personally, I am okay with simplfication/consolidation in some areas especially if its to make way for other engaging tasks/activities that will eat up our time.

 

 

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On 8/18/2021 at 11:44 PM, AndrewAA said:

I have a question about pipe guns about ammo. They just use standart ammo? or in future versions u add new "self-made'' bullets?

The pipe guns will use regular ammunition, the pipe shotgun will outmode the blunderbuss and replace it.

Pipe weapons will likely be low durability but cheap to repair like the blunderbuss but you'll be able to actually utilize the ammunition you find rather than hoarding it for a week+ until you get a weapon that can actually use it or make it yourself by minmaxing into a weapon type you like.  

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Once upon a time, before the release of Alpha 19, we on the forum discussed the appearance in the game of a kind of train.

 

I couldn't find Joel's post, but I do remember that he was speculating that at some point in the game, improvised minecarts could appear that could move on rails that players can place. These minecarts could be used by players to conveniently travel to and from mines.

 

Also, if I remember correctly, it was mentioned that such rails could be located almost vertically, which could replace the lifts for the players, which the developers refused to implement (lifts) in 16 Alpha (if I remember correctly).

 

Q: Is the implementation of the rails and minecarts still under discussion, or is it Joel's ( @Madmole ) dead horse that shouldn't be kicked anymore?

Thanks for what you are doing, I look forward to 20 Alpha)

 

P.S. @Roland you can say that Joel never wrote this, I still couldn't find proof 😅😂

Edited by Survager (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Well then there is nothing to fear 😎

 

newshoes.jpg.aa3568bce2095bb9a49dc604b5ae25bf.jpg

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS WRONG THIS IS SO WRONG NO NO NO NO, REPENT ! HELL NO THIS IS SO BAD  ASYMMETRY HURTS A LOT. AND IF TFP WANT TO CREATE A HORROR GAME YOU GAVE THEM IDEA. 

 

@meganoth  you commited war crime you know? Did you ever hear about Geneva Convention??????? 😭 😭  😭 😭

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