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meganoth

meganoth

3 hours ago, RhinoW said:

 

List should tell you that there would be options to increase the difficulty, as zombies aren't just "zombies", they got 2 different variants that could serve different purposes when destroying the base, or could be tiered direct upgrades to the zombies themselves. Meaning, having a full concrete/steel base wouldn't make the game trivial (which wouldn't anyways).

 

 

Why do you see it as a nerf? They continue to have the same impact early on, and only have a harder time destroying harder blocks, which would make sense, as you are actively trying to find better ways to make the zombies more ineffective towards your base. Also, you are bound to have blind angles on your base or have the zombies separated into 2 groups if you have an actual square fortress/wall, so shooting them isn't always constant action.

 

It is a nerf. Basic zombies are weaker as soon as you can build better materials.

 

 

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Wait, so by that logic, you should always have enemies that scale with you in order to give them a use.

 

I don't see how this would follow. There is a difference between weaker zombies being still dangerous to your base in masses (like now) and weaker zombies being as good as ineffective against the base (like you want it). I don't want the basic zombies to scale with me, I like it fine as it is.

 

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Doesn't that kind of ruin the point of progression? You never really notice the difference in that case, as there would be nothing to compare yourself to. One could argue they could be removed near the true endgame, but...that already happens mate, they are replaced with radiated versions. After (old) gamestage 300 (correct me if im wrong), 90%+ the zombies you are facing are radiated.

 

And commons aren't weak, they would become weak as a sign of your efforts. Must admit, my opinion here is totally biased because of my experience ever since the A17 pathfinding update. Zombies focus on the block with the lowest health and breach through concrete walls like butter, so much for using and upgrading military bases with concrete walls around them. Worst part? We literally had 2 open gates in front of the base, set with traps, and they ignored the open entrances to destroy 2 previously damaged concrete blocks.

 

Ok, lets assume TFP implements your idea. Then what would change in that scenario? Nothing, since the stronger zombies would still breach through that concrete wall with lowest health and obliterate you.

 

 

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So I still believe concrete (not even gonna mention steel) should be that impenetrable block against a small horde of trash zombies (unlike lesser blocks), and a "normal" block for actual base buster zombies. Reminding the problem here is the late game, how they still deal too much damage to concrete, screwing with damage values for the zombie itself, means it alters it's interaction with ALL blocks, not specific tiers, hence the damage reduction based on tier. Giving specific zombies the ability to consistently deal 40, while weaker zombies have a falloff, means they will always be VIP targets, and at the same time, you realize your base becomes stronger against hordes. Not just *this upgrade adds about 5 extra seconds of survival time to the block against X recurring scenario because it's health increases*. There are many more variables that make damage interesting, right now, 2-1=1 is the most basic and most boring of them all.

 

Ok.

Now I really don't see (in vanilla) that upgrading to concrete gives you just 5 extra seconds. From cobblestone to reinforced concrete is a factor of >3 in hitpoints if I'm not mistaken. If zombies could destroy that block in 5 seconds, they already could destroy the cobblestone in less than 2, you would have been toast the previous horde night. Are you playing on insane? I really don't see that happening in lower difficulties.

 

If this was just exaggeration: Weaker zombies are already weaker. A normal zombie does 8 block damage while a feral already does 24 and the cop 100. You need a lot of normal zombies even with group bonus to destroy a reinforced concrete block while ferals are 3 times as effective and cops 12 times, and they get the group bonus as well, even from normal zombies. That is a seriously steep progression and you want that even steeper?

 

If you have the feeling zombies do too much damage, simply turn down the difficulty.

 

 

meganoth

meganoth

2 hours ago, RhinoW said:

 

List should tell you that there would be options to increase the difficulty, as zombies aren't just "zombies", they got 2 different variants that could serve different purposes when destroying the base, or could be tiered direct upgrades to the zombies themselves. Meaning, having a full concrete/steel base wouldn't make the game trivial (which wouldn't anyways).

 

 

Why do you see it as a nerf? They continue to have the same impact early on, and only have a harder time destroying harder blocks, which would make sense, as you are actively trying to find better ways to make the zombies more ineffective towards your base. Also, you are bound to have blind angles on your base or have the zombies separated into 2 groups if you have an actual square fortress/wall, so shooting them isn't always constant action.

 

It is a nerf. Basic zombies are weaker as soon as you can build better materials.

 

 

2 hours ago, RhinoW said:

Wait, so by that logic, you should always have enemies that scale with you in order to give them a use.

 

I don't see how this would follow. There is a difference between weaker zombies being still dangerous to your base in masses (like now) and weaker zombies being as good as ineffective against the base (like you want it). I don't want the basic zombies to scale with me, I like it fine as it is.

 

2 hours ago, RhinoW said:

Doesn't that kind of ruin the point of progression? You never really notice the difference in that case, as there would be nothing to compare yourself to. One could argue they could be removed near the true endgame, but...that already happens mate, they are replaced with radiated versions. After (old) gamestage 300 (correct me if im wrong), 90%+ the zombies you are facing are radiated.

 

And commons aren't weak, they would become weak as a sign of your efforts. Must admit, my opinion here is totally biased because of my experience ever since the A17 pathfinding update. Zombies focus on the block with the lowest health and breach through concrete walls like butter, so much for using and upgrading military bases with concrete walls around them. Worst part? We literally had 2 open gates in front of the base, set with traps, and they ignored the open entrances to destroy 2 previously damaged concrete blocks.

 

Ok, lets assume TFP implements your idea. Then what would change in that scenario? Nothing, since the stronger zombies would still breach through that concrete wall with lowest health and oblierate you.

 

 

2 hours ago, RhinoW said:

 

So I still believe concrete (not even gonna mention steel) should be that impenetrable block against a small horde of trash zombies (unlike lesser blocks), and a "normal" block for actual base buster zombies. Reminding the problem here is the late game, how they still deal too much damage to concrete, screwing with damage values for the zombie itself, means it alters it's interaction with ALL blocks, not specific tiers, hence the damage reduction based on tier. Giving specific zombies the ability to consistently deal 40, while weaker zombies have a falloff, means they will always be VIP targets, and at the same time, you realize your base becomes stronger against hordes. Not just *this upgrade adds about 5 extra seconds of survival time to the block against X recurring scenario because it's health increases*. There are many more variables that make damage interesting, right now, 2-1=1 is the most basic and most boring of them all.

 

Ok.

Now I really don't see (in vanilla) that upgrading to concrete gives you just 5 extra seconds. From cobblestone to reinforced concrete is a factor of >3 in hitpoints if I'm not mistaken. If zombies could destroy that block in 5 seconds, they already could destroy the cobblestone in less than 2, you would have been toast the previous horde night. Are you playing on insane? I really don't see that happening in lower difficulties.

 

If this was just exaggeration: Weaker zombies are already weaker. A normal zombie does 8 block damage while a feral already does 24 and the cop 100. You need a lot of normal zombies even with group bonus to destroy a reinforced concrete block while ferals are 3 times as effective and cops 12 times, and they get the group bonus as well, even from normal zombies. That is a seriously steep progression and you want that even steeper?

 

If you have the feeling zombies do too much damage, simply turn down the difficulty.

 

 

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