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Alpha 20 Dev Diary


madmole

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7 hours ago, Kirill_226RUS said:

@faatal, will the saves from A20 experimental be compatible with A20 stable? And if you don't know it now, when will it become known?

Well, that depends on the experiment, doesn't it? That's why it is called experimental.

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8 hours ago, Kirill_226RUS said:

@faatal, will the saves from A20 experimental be compatible with A20 stable? And if you don't know it now, when will it become known?

It will be the same as the past experimentals. They will probably load, but not recommended. Often people will get bugs using previous versions as we adjust data throughout the experimental period.

6 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Yeh the cool special looking things on these new zombies will even further showcase the lack of zombie diversity in game.  It'd be cool if there were regular mundane zombies but when you see 50 soldiers coming at you and they all have the same vest tear and same exact guts bouncing around, it'll really highlight just how badly the game needs variants.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're cool looking AF, but I'm still right.

 

My *recommendation* would be to take a zombie, say the soldier, make ONE version and then have different children on the mesh have the variations, then on spawn roll a random number to decide which child is shown and which is hidden, so that you can have multiple variants using the same model.  One child has the guts, another a bite wound, another a clothing tear, another a sidearm, another a rank insignia, etc... all hidden, then on spawn it decides which 1, 2 or 3 of those children get shown, and voila, instant variants.

 

I know this method already works, because science tells me so. 😃 

I have pointed this out. The more distinctive they make then, the more repetitive it looks. I see 5 soldiers and they all somehow died the same? Having special characteristics be optional would be a good place to get to.

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14 minutes ago, faatal said:

 

I have pointed this out. The more distinctive they make then, the more repetitive it looks. I see 5 soldiers and they all somehow died the same? Having special characteristics be optional would be a good place to get to.

So how come they went for it?

cuz it does look very silly

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2 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

So how come they went for it?

cuz it does look very silly

It was already done like that. My opinion came after. That is how development goes. People do things. Others make comments. Sometimes things change. Round and round it goes. I often do things without input because I think it will be cool, then sometimes you have to go back and refine it from other's opinions.

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1 minute ago, faatal said:

It was already done like that. My opinion came after. That is how development goes. People do things. Others make comments. Sometimes things change. Round and round it goes. I often do things without input because I think it will be cool, then sometimes you have to go back and refine it from other's opinions.

true and plus in the case of the solder it could be fixed easily if it changes so they don't really need to make it from starch again 

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6 hours ago, RBN said:

I am inclined to think is vulkan too. the native version have more fps selecting vulkan render. Unfortunately sometimes i get texture errors (pink sky or ground) and random crashes using it.

 

Don't you have wrong textures and crashes with a19?

I used to run it that way in a18 but with a19 is very inconsistent. Sometime seems to going well and crash without apparent reaseon and others times load with the sky or the ground pink or all the screen black and only the UI element render

 

I have no wrong textures and also no crashes. I assume it is because I have an RX580. That GPU series is just the right age. Not too young to still have bugs in the GPU drivers and not too old for this game.

 

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11 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I have no wrong textures and also no crashes. I assume it is because I have an RX580. That GPU series is just the right age. Not too young to still have bugs in the GPU drivers and not too old for this game.

 

That is my card too, paired with a a-10.

I tested again and i got pink texture again. Googling a bit found some post about similar problem in another games and they recommend erasing the mesa shader cache and some radv files in .cache and is seems to be working. At least the textures are normal. No time to play long to test crash.

Seems that the textures cached with proton doesn't mix well running in native? that makes any sense? No idea

 

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1 hour ago, faatal said:

It was already done like that. My opinion came after. That is how development goes. People do things. Others make comments. Sometimes things change. Round and round it goes. I often do things without input because I think it will be cool, then sometimes you have to go back and refine it from other's opinions.

 

1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said:

true and plus in the case of the solder it could be fixed easily if it changes so they don't really need to make it from starch again 

Both @faatal and @Adam the Waster talk about more zombie variants ( i mean diffrent looks for this same type of zombie). this mean i probably died  and i'm in heaven (or in mental asylum). Honestly "dead zombies" are harder too make good that  "living zombies" - if you saw 2 this some 1 eye zombie in this same house you could start thinking about fighting with clone army. If all zombies are barefoot , in destroyed pants and thirts but with diffrent faces colours of clothes you can avoid " clone army" problem- that's why zombies from days gone looks that way. Btw how turtle rock and valve create so many variants in l4d idk- even in 1 you have unique variants - docs and patients in hospital or pilots in airport. 

Honestly i wish l4d2 became "refrence " for another types of zombie games- perfect kiling effect ( and 7dtd is rly close to it), a lot of zombie variants and "mixes" ( like this same pilot zombie but diffrent heads) and behave ( honestly i hope someday we will get random sleepers  zombies on street , sitting on bench, lying in water but not in POI but outside)

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, Renathras said:


Yeah, I'm a really visual person.  I've long held that I can play old games and games with bad graphics as long as they are consistent in what they're trying to portray (and have good gameplay and story).  So when I see the steel knuckles, I think "This thing can harvest animals because of the knives on the knuckles".  Then when I see the stone spear, I'm like "This thing should harvest animals really really well" because (for anyone who knows about skinning or preparing animal meats) spears like the stone spear tip were used by ancient civilizations for exactly this purpose.  Longish, flat, and jagged edged blades.  It's also why the stone axe makes sense in this purpose.  You could do it with a fireman axe, but it would be more difficult since the weight is off and the hand motion you're going for are relatively short, quick, straight rubbing strokes, whereas a fireman axe is weighted for breaking through walls and doors and such to get at trapped people to save them.

I'm not sure "balance trumps reason" is always a good policy, though.  Not to mention nothing is perfectly balanced anyway.  :)  I mean, we could argue that the HUNTING KNIFE should be the best animal harvesting weapon in the game, meaning even players using machetes would need to carry a hunting knife on their person for maximum efficiency when hunting.  Indeed, the machete's shape and weight would actually make it a poor skinning tool because the length.  With the spear, you could hold it just below the head and make your strokes, while with the machete, you're doing so with a much shorter lever arm and a much longer cutting edge, which would make it less useful for that, I'd think.  Not to mention, as a person that likes the hunting knife's attack animation better (for some reason, it's WAY easier for me to get headshots with, even though it's a narrow collision box, because it's straight down the middle of my screen unlike the machete), I honestly wouldn't mind this all that much...

Same with axes.  When my eyes see that steel axe, I would THINK that would be the most damaging weapon in the game.  Think about getting hit with any of the game's weapons and the only one that comes close to the raw damage the steel axe would do would be the steel sledgehammer.  The steel axe has the steel sledgehammer's weight (or close to it), with not one but THREE cutting edges at slightly different insets added to it.  This should cause TREMENDOUS physical damage to anything it hits, first from the blunt force of weight, which would be similar to the steel sledgehammer's, but then from the slash, since no amount of zombie flesh is going to stop that much momentum with a bladed edge until it cuts its way out the other side of whatever limb or area it hits.  And considering that war axes were a more commonly used weapon than warhammers, complete with warriors training in their use specifically for combat, I think that's all the reason we need to see it deserves its own skill line.  :) Hammers and wrenches less so, they just make good makeshift clubs.  Though I think I'd rather get dinged in the head with a baseball bat than a pipe wrench, personally...

I do wish we had more Swiss army knives.  Swiss army knives are fun in games, but developers avoid them like the plague.  Trading versatility for a bit of power. 

And yeah, "group friendly" skill as in "things you can do for the group".  Every now and then I'll play a world with up to 4 friends (VERY rarely 5), and we tend to run into the problem that one or two people in the group feel kind of worthless to the group if we each choose a single skill line to go down.  And the person that picks Intellect is the most valuable to the group, but tends to feel like they have no good combat capability because batons and turrets aren't really like most of the other weapon systems in the game.


But, as I said, I'm not sure the solution other than maybe moving medicine to Fortitude and gardening to Agility or something...

 

We don't have problems like this in our MP group. Everyone is valuable when he brings home new schematics or books for other players (we usually allot book series to specific players so a player has first pick on "his" books). Or weapons/armor/mods that someone else needs.

 

The INT player can be invaluable on horde night if his turrets are used well. But thats beside the point. The game has a diversity in its classes that in my opinion helps replayability. Going into INT feels different than going into agility, whether in SP or in MP.

 

3 hours ago, Renathras said:

.

Granted, I don't expect any changes (though the spear with harvesting would be a cool one...!), just these are things I've noticed over time playing with the game's visuals don't match up to what my brain expectations of them are.  Or, to put it another way, where the visuals are kind of telling a different story, which kind of misleads the player as to what they should do.  As you say, if the spear was just a pointy stick, it obviously wouldn't be an issue because a simple point isn't a great flesh/meat harvesting shape.

EDIT:  Don't get me wrong, I still absolutely love this game.  Just little things here and there I'd change.

Another is the loot system.  I know a lot of people hated the old system, but it's weird to me that so few zombies can be looted, Oblivion/Skyrim style (especially ones that are clearly wearing/carrying usable game items, like the Lumberjack boots and jeans or the Cop pistols).  While some of this can be handwaved as "the ones they were wearing were too torn up/destroyed to be useful", at least for the guns, you'd think there'd be some parts to salvage.  And the big yellow backpack drop is just...weird...vs the old way.  Though I get it's because in Alpha 15 or whenever that change was made the bodies would decompose, causing people to lose loot if they weren't able to quickly gather it all during horde nights.

 

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

And a lot of players farmed zombies for that loot (they turned on lots of camp fires and forges to get screamers). Especially the latter was the reason the zombie loots bags got removed AFAIK.  

That people would lose loot was never a reason. On the contrary, the decomposition was short to lure reckless players to jump down and try to loot during the horde night. 😉

 

 

3 hours ago, Renathras said:


.

I'm also really excited to see the power restoration mission.  The idea of objective based missions that would be a realistic thing someone would be doing in a zombie apocalypse sounds neat to me.  Something other than "kill all zombies" or "get this random package we stashed in this random place".  Makes me excited on what the future of missions might be...

 

 

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1 hour ago, faatal said:

It was already done like that. My opinion came after. That is how development goes. People do things. Others make comments. Sometimes things change. Round and round it goes. I often do things without input because I think it will be cool, then sometimes you have to go back and refine it from other's opinions.

Confirmed, alpha 26 will have another rework of the zombies... :)

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28 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

 

The old way was horrible in my opinion: After a horde night looting all the bags took ages.

And a lot of players farmed zombies for that loot (they turned on lots of camp fires and forges to get screamers). Especially the latter was the reason the zombie loots bags got removed AFAIK.  

That people would lose loot was never a reason. On the contrary, the decomposition was short to lure reckless players to jump down and try to loot during the horde night. 😉

 

 

 

 

Honestly maybe this problem could be solved by added "backpack" zombies-  just zombies with backpack- 3 types: hobo, survivor and soldier. Only them could be looted- more realistic that yellow backpack and quiet rare- and maybe add them option to not dissapair after being killed 

14 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

Confirmed, alpha 26 will have another rework of the zombies... :)

Damn. I hope my grandgrandgrandchildren will play in 7DTD Beta 1.0 someday

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Did you test the native version with vulkan as well? I don't know the state of Nvidias vulkan support, but I play with vulkan on Linux with an AMD card and while I can't say anything about the relative performance I can say that vulkan can be used natively too, you don't necessarily need wine for that.

 

No I actually haven't tried 7dtd on Linux. Seems crazy considering I'm the one asking about it lol. I'm just going to wait til alpha 20 to mess around with it I think. I like Linux a lot but I would like to play on whatever OS would give me the most fps.

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7 hours ago, faatal said:

I have pointed this out. The more distinctive they make then, the more repetitive it looks. I see 5 soldiers and they all somehow died the same? Having special characteristics be optional would be a good place to get to.

Honestly, what we reslly need is colour variants on non-special Zds and a bigger animation pool both for each special and for all the Zds in general. 5-10 sets of animations shows right after 7 hours in. Just more walking and attacking patterns will do it (like triple the number and randomize it). Right now in a19 the spider does quite a bit compared to the rest but even then it gets repetitive. That needn't be optional and It's a must.

 

PD: Gore, on the other hand, should be focused on 2 year-old sensitive humans, to make them strong. So always off for Roland. He is too wise.

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