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Alpha 20 Dev Diary


madmole

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2 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

FM5IjvDXIAAUZNV.jpeg

 

This van that Yongha is working on is nice, but unless we are going to get low durability fixable and driveable sedans; and vans for that matter, then this addition is just more (at least temporarily) needless decorative fluff. 

 

The game could (and would, in my opinion) instantly benefit from being able to get a car early on, just with very little storage space and after fixing it.

 

Even at much later game stages I will go back to either the vanilla motorbike, or modded dirtbikes, and these are sometimes carried with me and friends in the chopper 😬 

 

Having tiered vehicles is nice in principle but it leads to absurdity as I've said, when you exist in a world with so many cars; none of which can be saved and restored (yet, anyway). It all seems rather wasteful.

 

But... however... kill a few zombies then (of course if you spec into intellect) your character is suddenly imbued with amazing mechanical knowledge and can somehow pull a 4x4 death machine out of his behind...

At least with the introduction of these models it's not too difficult to rig them into proper working vehicles. Ragsy has done some work to rig all of the trucks (Working Stiffs, Mo' Power, and the Ambulance) to be driven as regular vehicles in his Vehicle Madness mod, and they look pretty good. Totally agree though- having vehicles early on in the game would be really fun, perhaps with the caveat that these (maybe for all current vehicles) cannot be picked up, allowing for the old vehicle augmentation system to make its return, or even a new repair system as well. Vehicle diversity is greatly needed to make the game feel more alive, and I hope to see at the very least more unique models being designed.

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10 minutes ago, Arma Rex said:

At least with the introduction of these models it's not too difficult to rig them into proper working vehicles. Ragsy has done some work to rig all of the trucks (Working Stiffs, Mo' Power, and the Ambulance) to be driven as regular vehicles in his Vehicle Madness mod, and they look pretty good. Totally agree though- having vehicles early on in the game would be really fun, perhaps with the caveat that these (maybe for all current vehicles) cannot be picked up, allowing for the old vehicle augmentation system to make its return, or even a new repair system as well. Vehicle diversity is greatly needed to make the game feel more alive, and I hope to see at the very least more unique models being designed.

It will be bad idea to add them  early - okay now most players looting what is nearby them - houses, small shopes. But if it was so easy to travel in such long range a lot of people will hunt only "important" pois. They spend a lot of time making pois so they want to  show them how many players as possible

Edited by Matt115 (see edit history)
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51 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

It will be bad idea to add them  early - okay now most players looting what is nearby them - houses, small shopes. But if it was so easy to travel in such long range a lot of people will hunt only "important" pois. They spend a lot of time making pois so they want to  show them how many players as possible

Of course, keep in mind however they still have yet to implement the critical damage system for vehicles, making it a challenge to maintain vehicles in the early gamestages. As many of these vehicles have been exposed to the elements for a prolonged period of time without use, they're going to need a lot more work to keep them running smoothyl. Say the sedan gets a flat tire, or the coolant in the van is depleted, the vehicle would then stop functioning properly, making it a difficult process to keep using these old vehicles that are high-maintenance and resource expensive. It'd give players an incentive to make their own (the bicycle, minibike, and so on) due to the fact that they're "brand new" making it more easier to maintain.

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1 hour ago, Arma Rex said:

Of course, keep in mind however they still have yet to implement the critical damage system for vehicles, making it a challenge to maintain vehicles in the early gamestages. As many of these vehicles have been exposed to the elements for a prolonged period of time without use, they're going to need a lot more work to keep them running smoothyl. Say the sedan gets a flat tire, or the coolant in the van is depleted, the vehicle would then stop functioning properly, making it a difficult process to keep using these old vehicles that are high-maintenance and resource expensive. It'd give players an incentive to make their own (the bicycle, minibike, and so on) due to the fact that they're "brand new" making it more easier to maintain.

This would tons of work to  change things just by little xd  because if you set time on 120 per day and doing quests you will have enoughtcash to buy  minibike + vehicle needs mods + there will be make a lot of diffrences between cars. So this is just too late for that in my opinion because it is connected with : changes in loot , changes in POI ( if you can find working car from them you need to change desing of poi to drive out of this POIS) , change in economy ( increase iron loot , people will more focus on getting fuel and mining that on looting ) , "segments" vehicles need a lot of work to works good ( you woudn't be happy if car just radomly blow up kiling you right?)  , changes in game balance and world generators ( mines of street will be necceary to avoid make game to easy and make of the perk more usefull) etc.  so -  this good idea but for sequel not for now. Just it is too late for such big change

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4 hours ago, Arma Rex said:

At least with the introduction of these models it's not too difficult to rig them into proper working vehicles. Ragsy has done some work to rig all of the trucks (Working Stiffs, Mo' Power, and the Ambulance) to be driven as regular vehicles in his Vehicle Madness mod, and they look pretty good. Totally agree though- having vehicles early on in the game would be really fun, perhaps with the caveat that these (maybe for all current vehicles) cannot be picked up, allowing for the old vehicle augmentation system to make its return, or even a new repair system as well. Vehicle diversity is greatly needed to make the game feel more alive, and I hope to see at the very least more unique models being designed.

I agree. I like the vehicle madness mod and finding a vehicle is juuust difficult enough, and you never know what you're gonna get. I would like it a bit more if (it were in vanilla) and:

- Vehicle damage/health was a bit random, or at least "ugly broken looking vehicle was weaker than nice shiny new one"

- gas was really hard to come by (natually via looting), and maybe if you did it was "mostly unuseable" (like had water/rust in it) so you had to use the chem station to refine it (and that would be a slow process or one that does not have a great yield)

- multiple gas refining recipes ( basic = bad yield, adding more "ingredients or catalysts" gives more gas yield). then make those items gated via intelligence or schematics or trader

- finding a car gave random "gas and pre-damage" to it. maybe you find a car with 5% gas left.

- you could siphon off gas from cars (just loot it from the car)

- in person perspective while driving (as option)

- maybe variable gas usage ( big vehicles get worse gas mileage, but have more storage etc. type of trade off)

 

I mean, I could come up with a huge laundry list of cool things, but these all seem "do-able" with the current game and would make finding a vehicle early "great" but not "I am OP" and really would lock using a powered vehicle behind the chem station.  I think the chem station can use some love ( more recipes) so shale -> gas is a bit of a stretch.  make it more involved and harder to make a lot of gas so driving far away isn't "super easy to do" and might strand yourself.

Edited by doughphunghus (see edit history)
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On 2/24/2022 at 2:49 PM, DEATH MECHANIC said:

if i can look it up so can the devs, 7dtd is at least 50 versions behind the latest updated unity version. the version of unity needed to correct the vulkan memory leak issue is just 2-3 minor bug updates from the version that 7dtd is on now.

We are planning on updating to 2021 LTS when it releases.

 

We generally pick a stable version and stick with it for a while and then update as appropriate. Unity updates sometimes require code changes or break things, like a more recent version of 2020.3 causes a null ref in some animation code. I will need to look at that if it still happens in 2021.

On 2/26/2022 at 5:04 PM, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

I vaguely remembee talk of vehicle weapons but; a question for @faatal or @madmole (or any other dev wishing to reply), has there been any serious consideration?

 

I would love to see Madmoles Heli or a turret mod mountable on the truck.

 

I would also love to see fixed ground turrets mountable by players for some interactive defences to compliment the passive ones such as wire, spikes, or landmines, or the semi-interactive defences such as turrets which require reload.

 

Would be amazing to see something like these, even if we had to wait beyind A21 to get any.

No vehicle weapon plans for A21. Beyond that I don't know.

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On 2/26/2022 at 10:06 PM, Blake_ said:

@faatal,sorry to bother you at this time of intense a21 developing, though I would love if you could answer, to the best of your knowledge, the following questions: 

 

1. How are things? Meaning What are your plans for basic bandit AI?

 

2. Do you know if water is getting some love and if so, do you believe the raft will get a meaningful spot in the game at some point?

 

3.Are " zds going through 1 meter holes" and "wandering sleepers " something that you  personally want to do in the future/at some point? .

 

4. While not exactly your department, do you know if the RWG team is planning to introduce new RWG features and/or stamps in the future? Meaning not only more size options, but also more than one  kind of crater, river, etc. Right now, they are few in variety, regardless of the coolness of the feature. 

 

5. Do you think 7dtd will be able to increase its entity limit in the future by any amount, or do you deem it far fetched for Unity and/or this game at this point in time? The reason for this question is none other than "where in the world will npcs fit above this already tight cap".

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Hugs.

 

1 They will be an improved version of the zombie AI.

2 We have a programmer working full time on water. He has a new simulation for water flow working and has a lot of details to sort out. I would like to see the raft, but how it fits into game play is unclear.

3 Zeds 1m maybe, but not a focus for a21. Wandering would be looked at for bandits, but once it works, then zeds might be able to use it too.

4 More would be nice, but don't know.

5 Not by much. I don't think we will be tossing a bunch of bandits out there while a lot of zeds are spawned.

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8 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

But... however... kill a few zombies then (of course if you spec into intellect) your character is suddenly imbued with amazing mechanical knowledge and can somehow pull a 4x4 death machine out of his behind...

 

You could play the game like that or you could instead use a wrench to disassemble a bunch of cars and then use the xp earned from that activity to up your intellect and gain mechanical knowledge. Of course, zed killing xp gets in the mix as well.

 

What is hilarious is that the very people who complain about the immersion disconnect of killing zombies to gain mechanical knowledge are also the ones who disdain doing appropriate actions that would be more thematic simply because all they really want to do is level up as quickly and efficiently as they possibly can. Sure, you can play the game like a spreadsheet but if you are willingly giving up immersion for the sake of efficiency then don't complain that the actions you choose to do don't line up with the skills you are buying. The option to do xp earning actions that match up with the skills you want to purchase exists. If your concern actually is with immersion you can certainly play the game in a way so that you feel that at least a portion of your mechanical skills came from.....disassembling cars.


The game allows for player choice to be as true to role playing your progression in a somewhat realistic manner as you wish-- as long as you are willing to progress a smidgeon slower than spamming quests and farming screamer hordes....

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

You could play the game like that or you could instead use a wrench to disassemble a bunch of cars and then use the xp earned from that activity to up your intellect and gain mechanical knowledge. Of course, zed killing xp gets in the mix as well.

 

What is hilarious is that the very people who complain about the immersion disconnect of killing zombies to gain mechanical knowledge are also the ones who disdain doing appropriate actions that would be more thematic simply because all they really want to do is level up as quickly and efficiently as they possibly can. Sure, you can play the game like a spreadsheet but if you are willingly giving up immersion for the sake of efficiency then don't complain that the actions you choose to do don't line up with the skills you are buying. The option to do xp earning actions that match up with the skills you want to purchase exists. If your concern actually is with immersion you can certainly play the game in a way so that you feel that at least a portion of your mechanical skills came from.....disassembling cars.


The game allows for player choice to be as true to role playing your progression in a somewhat realistic manner as you wish-- as long as you are willing to progress a smidgeon slower than spamming quests and farming screamer hordes....

 

Notice how there was no mention of; or complaint about, any other knowledge; like gun building or farming in my post, coming from killing zombies.

 

The point here is about vehicles.

 

The point is obviously shared with other users, as is demonstrable on this forum, and in the skilled and dedicated individuals that are adding vehicles as mods.

 

Yes we can use mods, but again, not the point. My comment and observation was and is on the fact the game has a huge number of cars that exist, and that; in my humble opinion, the fact that as of yet, being unable to fix them up seems to be a lost opportunity for a double usage - decor, and early transport.

 

You have taken my post, focused on one aspect of it, and completely missed the point. Well done.

 

 

On point again I like the contribution of ideas from @Arma Rex and what @doughphunghus mentioned re: the mod.

 

Thinking more on this, should they ever implement this as a feature then there are other things that would add a nice balance.

 

- At least early on ensure that all vehicles that could be saved or patched up have zero mod slots.

 

- Any saved vehicles could have more expensive specialist vehicle repair kits. This would mean players would have to work harder for them.

 

- Having the ability to patch up an old banger could require one level of grease monkey. That would be a great excuse to get people on the vehicle ladder more than just for the sake of skipping to a motorbike or a jeep.

 

(In all honesty my previous 3 games, I haven't used the bike or minibike at all.) 

 

 

27 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:

There is a mod called Darkness Falls @Beelzebubs Ghost It is a big overhaul mod but it has a hybrid skill system.  you can put points into things, but it also has an Learn by doing system which would seem to suit what you are looking for

 

Thank you @POCKET951 but this discussion is centered around vanilla contributions.

 

Once I have my helicopter built I dont need other vehicles unless they are modded or vanilla bikes because of their relatively good speed and agility, being able to zip around cities and drop off at the heli.

 

My thoughts are for the game and for the wider playerbase, just my opinion that we should all have slightly better transport opportunity earlier on with some penalties or considerations for balance, and all in order to utilise some of the great assets the devs already have in the game 👍🏻

Edited by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)
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14 hours ago, Matt115 said:

It will be bad idea to add them  early - okay now most players looting what is nearby them - houses, small shopes. But if it was so easy to travel in such long range a lot of people will hunt only "important" pois. They spend a lot of time making pois so they want to  show them how many players as possible

That could be prevented by locking the ability to use cars behind perks/books.

e.g.

-"Gas Monkey" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to construct a bypass for the cars ignition system")

-"Electrical Engineer" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to rewire/short the starter")

-"lock picking" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to lockpick the car's ignition switch")

-book "GTA diy" that starts to occur in the loot tables at a certain higher loot stage

-...

 

So to give every character build the chance to use cars within later progress in their main skill tree, but prevent use early on.

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On 3/3/2022 at 3:55 PM, Laz Man said:

 

I dunno, if you become a master at newsstand design people would probably watch. 😅

 

I recently subscribed to a Damascus steel metalsmith channel because I enjoyed the level of detail and skill demonstrated in each piece of work he made Despite not knowing heads or tails about steelscrafting lol...

which one? im subscribed to Alec Steele and Wil Stelter

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10 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

I agree. I like the vehicle madness mod and finding a vehicle is juuust difficult enough, and you never know what you're gonna get. I would like it a bit more if (it were in vanilla) and:

- Vehicle damage/health was a bit random, or at least "ugly broken looking vehicle was weaker than nice shiny new one"

- gas was really hard to come by (natually via looting), and maybe if you did it was "mostly unuseable" (like had water/rust in it) so you had to use the chem station to refine it (and that would be a slow process or one that does not have a great yield)

- multiple gas refining recipes ( basic = bad yield, adding more "ingredients or catalysts" gives more gas yield). then make those items gated via intelligence or schematics or trader

- finding a car gave random "gas and pre-damage" to it. maybe you find a car with 5% gas left.

- you could siphon off gas from cars (just loot it from the car)

- in person perspective while driving (as option)

- maybe variable gas usage ( big vehicles get worse gas mileage, but have more storage etc. type of trade off)

 

I mean, I could come up with a huge laundry list of cool things, but these all seem "do-able" with the current game and would make finding a vehicle early "great" but not "I am OP" and really would lock using a powered vehicle behind the chem station.  I think the chem station can use some love ( more recipes) so shale -> gas is a bit of a stretch.  make it more involved and harder to make a lot of gas so driving far away isn't "super easy to do" and might strand yourself.

You know how much work it will be to make this? And yes this would be OP because you can find chemistry station.  So good idea but for sequel. it is too late to add something like that

8 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You could play the game like that or you could instead use a wrench to disassemble a bunch of cars and then use the xp earned from that activity to up your intellect and gain mechanical knowledge. Of course, zed killing xp gets in the mix as well.

 

What is hilarious is that the very people who complain about the immersion disconnect of killing zombies to gain mechanical knowledge are also the ones who disdain doing appropriate actions that would be more thematic simply because all they really want to do is level up as quickly and efficiently as they possibly can. Sure, you can play the game like a spreadsheet but if you are willingly giving up immersion for the sake of efficiency then don't complain that the actions you choose to do don't line up with the skills you are buying. The option to do xp earning actions that match up with the skills you want to purchase exists. If your concern actually is with immersion you can certainly play the game in a way so that you feel that at least a portion of your mechanical skills came from.....disassembling cars.


The game allows for player choice to be as true to role playing your progression in a somewhat realistic manner as you wish-- as long as you are willing to progress a smidgeon slower than spamming quests and farming screamer hordes....

Well that's true XD

 

7 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

Notice how there was no mention of; or complaint about, any other knowledge; like gun building or farming in my post, coming from killing zombies.

 

The point here is about vehicles.

 

The point is obviously shared with other users, as is demonstrable on this forum, and in the skilled and dedicated individuals that are adding vehicles as mods.

 

Yes we can use mods, but again, not the point. My comment and observation was and is on the fact the game has a huge number of cars that exist, and that; in my humble opinion, the fact that as of yet, being unable to fix them up seems to be a lost opportunity for a double usage - decor, and early transport.

 

You have taken my post, focused on one aspect of it, and completely missed the point. Well done.

 

 

On point again I like the contribution of ideas from @Arma Rex and what @doughphunghus mentioned re: the mod.

 

Thinking more on this, should they ever implement this as a feature then there are other things that would add a nice balance.

 

- At least early on ensure that all vehicles that could be saved or patched up have zero mod slots.

 

- Any saved vehicles could have more expensive specialist vehicle repair kits. This would mean players would have to work harder for them.

 

- Having the ability to patch up an old banger could require one level of grease monkey. That would be a great excuse to get people on the vehicle ladder more than just for the sake of skipping to a motorbike or a jeep.

 

(In all honesty my previous 3 games, I haven't used the bike or minibike at all.) 

 

 

 

Thank you @POCKET951 but this discussion is centered around vanilla contributions.

 

Once I have my helicopter built I dont need other vehicles unless they are modded or vanilla bikes because of their relatively good speed and agility, being able to zip around cities and drop off at the heli.

 

My thoughts are for the game and for the wider playerbase, just my opinion that we should all have slightly better transport opportunity earlier on with some penalties or considerations for balance, and all in order to utilise some of the great assets the devs already have in the game 👍🏻

eh.... okay : how i say before - it need to be implemented early because it have infulence on : game economy, balance, perks, so it is too late for that 

 

And : better game =/= wider playerbase. HOI have quiet small playerbase and it is good game. Heroes of might and magic , settlers were killed because of "wider playerbase" . Elex and gothic is a perfect example why it is better to have small but stable community

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58 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

And : better game =/= wider playerbase. 

 

I'm not making the statement that 'A better game = a wider playerbase.'

 

That doesn't even make sense, because a better game compared to a previous iteration of itself could still be garbage 😂

 

Let me make this as clear as I can.

 

I think more options may create more varied play styles, which would be objectively better (if better means considering more of the community.)

 

I am a huge advocate of broadening peoples options, not restricting them.

 

For a huge amount of this there is the modding community, and those people are very talented, as seen through their incredible work. They offer a lot but I think it's a cheap getout to appeal to modders, and even cheaper given the fact we have so many vehicles in game (the work vans, military vehicles, sedans, and now a van/mpv coming) which; as for now, we can say have zero use beyond wrenching and decor.

 

I think the game could use more than just one driveable vanilla car. I can imagine there will be people who will protest, but I couldn't fathom why...

Edited by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, meilodasreh said:

That could be prevented by locking the ability to use cars behind perks/books.

e.g.

-"Gas Monkey" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to construct a bypass for the cars ignition system")

-"Electrical Engineer" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to rewire/short the starter")

-"lock picking" perk tree 3rd tier ("able to lockpick the car's ignition switch")

-book "GTA diy" that starts to occur in the loot tables at a certain higher loot stage

-...

 

So to give every character build the chance to use cars within later progress in their main skill tree, but prevent use early on.

 I wish it was so easy - okay it will infulence mining too : because you can mine oil deposit, - it is easier to find this on desert so well isulated or top chef etc. treat this like big system - you change 1 thing and  it will change sometimes strange things - like : mortars in BF1 made mines less usefull because you could destroy enemy mines just by random shooting.

9 minutes ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

 

I'm not making the statement that 'A better game = a wider playerbase.'

 

That doesn't even make sense, because a better game compared to a previous iteration of itself could still be garbage 😂

 

Let me make this as clear as I can.

 

I think more options may create more varied play styles, which would be objectively better (if better means considering more of the community.)

 

I am a huge advocate of broadening peoples options, not restricting them.

 

For a huge amount of this there is the modding community, and those people are very talented, as seen through their incredible work. They offer a lot but I think it's a cheap getout to appeal to modders, and even cheaper given the fact we have so many vehicles in game (the work vans, military vehicles, sedans, and now a van/mpv coming) which; as for now, we can say have zero use beyond wrenching and decor.

 

I think the game could use more than just one driveable vanilla car. I can imagine there will be people who will protest, but I couldn't fathom why...

Well about military vehicles, sedans : well this is logical from "setting" point of view : EMP created by nukes damaged cars - so that's why they are useless. Some movies use this same explanation to force characters to travel on foot. 

more options can be sometimes bad you know?

I will give you l4d2 and b4b as example - L4D2 have two tiers main guns with few category : automatic weapons, sniper rifles, shotguns and special guns + laser tag fire and explosive ammo. Every human character have this same speed etc.  special zombie are easy to recognice etc.

B4B - you have a lot of weapons types with diffrent qualities, you have diffrent stocks, magaznies, card deck ,  every characters have diffrent perks , even this same special infected have few variants so in theory there is much more ways to play. but...

More people prefer L4D2 because is simple so is more balance less RNG etc.

So that's why i think it is better to left this how it's works now. Ofc this idea is good but to use in sequel not now

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17 hours ago, Beelzebubs Ghost said:

You have taken my post, focused on one aspect of it, and completely missed the point. Well done.

 

I didn't care to comment about your other point. I didn't miss it-- I ignored it. I have no objection to the devs making cars in the world fixable and drivable. If I did I would have given you a counterpoint on that aspect of your post. I picked out the part I did have a disagreement of and responded to that. Sorry it wasn't your main point but I have no argument with your main point.

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If someone gets the sniper headshot book and then shoots a zombie in the head with a sniper rifle they have a 30% chance of causing stun on an irradiated, 40% on a feral, and 60% on other zombies. If someone shoots a zombie with a pipe shotgun without any books or points invested, they'll stun the zombie 100% of the time, even ferals and irradiated. I guess the in-game definition of a rifle is "a weak weapon that can shoot far, far away". Or, perhaps, the definition of shotgun is "a god-mode weapon for short range".

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Just dropping this here from another thread.

BUG regarding Drones and Storage Mod Stacking.

11 minutes ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:
On 3/2/2022 at 8:40 AM, Vaxkiller said:

I just tried this last night and could not stack storage mods. Are you running a mod to enable this?

No but I think you've found a bug. 

If you drag a second cargo mod over it won't add.

If you SHIFT-Click it will add more than 1.  Only seems to work for the Cargo Mod.

 

According to this post cargo mods are supposed to be able to stack but it appears that only works with SHIFT+CLICK.

On 12/15/2021 at 5:17 PM, Hated said:

 

Fixed 

 

  • Drone mods of the same type stack. Cargo mods are allowed to stack. 

I have seen nothing after that stating they removed Cargo mod stacking.  Thus I think you have found a bug with the drag-n-drop of cargo mods.

 

 

Edited by Red Eagle LXIX
Trying to make visible the source commenting that led to bug found. (see edit history)
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18 hours ago, Roland said:

You could play the game like that or you could instead use a wrench to disassemble a bunch of cars and then use the xp earned from that activity to up your intellect and gain mechanical knowledge.

 

did roland just advocate lbd?

 

Spoiler

Did someone mention Heresy? - Warhammer 40k | Meme Generator

 

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On 3/3/2022 at 11:43 AM, dcsobral said:

Oh, you're right. But, nope. I've already gotten worked up about it, and I believe it will only stress me out even more if I report it. I'll just stop using arrow slits. Besides, the new behavior is clearly spelled out in the release notes themselves:

 

I went ahead and opened one then 😛

 

 

8 minutes ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

Just dropping this here from another thread.

I think someone may have already filed a bug report on that, unless I'm misunderstanding the bug report

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40 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

"If someone shoots a zombie with a pipe shotgun without any books or points invested, they'll stun the zombie 100% of the time, even ferals and irradiated. I guess the in-game definition of a rifle is "a weak weapon that can shoot far, far away". Or, perhaps, the definition of shotgun is "a god-mode weapon for short range".

Unless that's unique to pipe shotguns and I don't remember it I know that's not true. One of the first things I did when I invested in Shotgun Messiah (or hobo or whatever) was to shoot a zombie to see if I got the stun and he just kept on coming. 

The stun from explosives works fine, but specced shotgun stuns don't always work, let alone unspecced.

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54 minutes ago, Alpacko said:

did roland just advocate lbd?

Voluntary LBD as a roleplaying choice...yes. I've actually posted several times over the past years since A16 how players can still play largely LBD using the existing model. But....it turns out most people care more for efficiency and fast leveling than they ever did for LBD. ;)

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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8 minutes ago, Roland said:

Voluntary LBD as a roleplaying choice...yes. I've actually posted several times over the past years since A16 how players can still play largely LBD using the existing model. But....it turns out most people care more for efficiency and fast leveling than they ever did for LBD. ;)

Well why you don't like LBD? it was pretty fun in my opinion ( but honestly i just didn't care about skill trees because i still care more about aestetic). In valheim it's works pretty good so it could be done good for 7dtd too

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