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Alpha 20 Dev Diary


madmole

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3 hours ago, faatal said:

We are a company of many people with a variety of ideas on how things should work. Over the years you also get new people coming onboard with new ideas. Opinions also change over time, so what I thought 4 years ago when I started, may be different now.

 

AI uses rounded block health in their pathing calculations, not SI. It is tower defense and we want them to be able to reach you, but since we can't do massive piles of zombies, smarted ones will do. My zombies have xray/heat/magic vision that lets them see weak spots in blocks and their semi functioning brains lets them decide to go there. They also have a dim recollection that doors allow them to get places, so they favor them. My lore for now until I change my mind or the company decides to have some official lore.

 

That is what I was trying to convey.  Just phrased differently.

 

From my 2nd previous post to this one:

"How would you know how it's being refined by their developers and new staff as meetings and new or old ideas are discussed? "

 

From my previous post to this one:

"They have always said that Tower Defense was a part of the game.  That means getting to the player.  And that can be done in a number of programmatic ways which may or may not include SI."

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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6 hours ago, mr.devolver said:

 

So you say brain stimulating device (which already exists) is a nonsense, but at the same time you can accept some unexplained "magic" that would explain zombies... Right... :classic_laugh:

 

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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19 minutes ago, meganoth said:

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

Nano-robotics? ...   :semi-twins:

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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54 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

Of all people I would have expected _you_ to remember their Clarkisms.  🙂

 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Arthur C. Clarke

 

re:  the post above

Edited by The Gronk (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, The Gronk said:

Before the AI update to the current system a half-block had half the HP of a full block.  The new pathfinding system required a half-block to have the same HP as a full block.  Now you have a situation where a thin pillar of something is the same HP as a full cubic metre of it.  Block HP is part of the SI calculation if memory serves.

 

Ideally a half-block should have half the HP of a full block but it was necessary to change this for pathfinding.  How do I know this?  I questioned the sanity of it when it was implemented and, if I remember correctly, you were here at the time.

No, the pathing system looks at the health of pairs of blocks to determine path cost. We have lots of blocks with different health values.

SI is based on distance not health and there is a block glue value for collapse calc.

8 hours ago, Morloc said:

Yep, though I think going for the doors was something from way-pre-A17(?) when pathing had changed a lot?

Yes, the old pathing favored doors, which made sense, so I added that to the current system.

Edited by faatal (see edit history)
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24 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Quick question:

Is the random vehicle teleporting bug fixed with 20.1?

I have searched the 20.1 change log for "vehicle" and "teleport" but could not find anything related unfortunately.

 

Thank you for the attempted search.  I thought faatal had said something related recently so I selected his name (you seem to visit somewhat frequently, and I thought I would share with you another way that might help.  It's an easy way to scan some recent topics by TFP persons.) and did find this:  (select the arrow in top right corner).

 

 

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, The Gronk said:

Of all people I would have expected _you_ to remember their Clarkisms.  🙂

 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

Arthur C. Clarke

 

re:  the post above

 

The equation goes both ways: It doesn't really matter whether we explain something by magic or "sufficiently advanced tech" aka tech that nobody on this world could reasonably have and it isn't even predictable whether it will ever be possible. It is the same pot, because then it is magical as well and everything is explainable.

 

"There's this device that just teleports zombies produced in an sufficiently advanced biotech zombie factory on the moon to earth. The zombies get their energy from nanobots with nano-fusionreactors. But see, it is not magic, it is tech!!" 😉

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

 

"Some form of magic". Ah yes, when people couldn't explain the storms, they came up with a simple "magic" explanation: God's anger... I'm simply trying to give reasonable narrative to the whole thing, you on the other hand are simply dismissing obvious gaps by "magic". Have you even thought of what would be the reason for zombies to eat human flesh and brains in the first place? Reason why I ask is pragmatic, as the same explanation may apply to question "what is their energy source". If zombies need to eat human flesh and brains to keep the virus alive, why wouldn't it make sense if chemicals produced by the virus as a byproduct of processing such "food" eaten by zombie served as the source of energy for nano device inside the body that would control the "thinking" of the zombies? You already got the answer to question how would they replicate. You seem open minded about the virus spreading simply by bites, and yet you can't imagine how would nano robots replicate themselves and move over to the bitten person? How about this: the virus itself is a carrier of nano materials and instructions to build the nano robot encoded in its genetic information? Have you considered that? Destroy the device itself, it would be built again, kill the virus, there will be nothing left with the instructions to rebuild the "thinking" device.

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11 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

It doesn't even need to be that complicated since your gut bacteria already can and does affect your mood, thoughts, mental health, brain development, alter your dna expression etc. and there's a whole host of parasitic infections that do the same.  There are bacteria that literally eat radioactive materials for energy, others that get it from sunlight, others that collect and deposit metals... I mean we're just a few random mutations away from being zombies already. 

Wear a mask and don't try and bite me.

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48 minutes ago, mr.devolver said:

 

"Some form of magic". Ah yes, when people couldn't explain the storms, they came up with a simple "magic" explanation: God's anger... I'm simply trying to give reasonable narrative to the whole thing, you on the other hand are simply dismissing obvious gaps by "magic". Have you even thought of what would be the reason for zombies to eat human flesh and brains in the first place? Reason why I ask is pragmatic, as the same explanation may apply to question "what is their energy source". If zombies need to eat human flesh and brains to keep the virus alive, why wouldn't it make sense if chemicals produced by the virus as a byproduct of processing such "food" eaten by zombie served as the source of energy for nano device inside the body that would control the "thinking" of the zombies? You already got the answer to question how would they replicate. You seem open minded about the virus spreading simply by bites, and yet you can't imagine how would nano robots replicate themselves and move over to the bitten person? How about this: the virus itself is a carrier of nano materials and instructions to build the nano robot encoded in its genetic information? Have you considered that? Destroy the device itself, it would be built again, kill the virus, there will be nothing left with the instructions to rebuild the "thinking" device.

 

Very good idea to explain zombies, as good or better than my "explanation". But ...

 

it uses nano-bots similar to the level of Stargate's replicators, wouldn't you say? Lets see what current tech nano-bots can do: For example changing their shape slighty to administer a drug stored inside it when an external electromagnetic field is applied.

 

To put it into perspective, it would be similar if we were in 1000 B.C. with wooden carts being high tech and someone built a space shuttle. Sure, maybe nanobots like that are in our future, but first of all today and in the near future they are magic independent of the label you put on them and even in 2500 they may or may not still be magic.

 

Just like the technobabble on star trek that has no meaning but is just some handwaving to mean their magic is supposedly done by advanced tech that can do ANYTHING provided the writers deem it necessary. Store Scotty for a hundred years in a teleporter wave? Sure can do, it is tech. Time travel? No problem, it isn't magic it is tech.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

It doesn't even need to be that complicated since your gut bacteria already can and does affect your mood, thoughts, mental health, brain development, alter your dna expression etc. and there's a whole host of parasitic infections that do the same.  There are bacteria that literally eat radioactive materials for energy, others that get it from sunlight, others that collect and deposit metals... I mean we're just a few random mutations away from being zombies already. 

Wear a mask and don't try and bite me.

 

Careful, I'm getting hungry this moment. 😉

 

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Anyone else getting these Ghost Blocks.  Ghost being visible but you can walk through it, and in some instances depending on which way you are looking it will disappear.

Find them often in random POIs (i.e. not always in the same spot)

We only play on a dedicated server so not sure if its happening in single player, but the glitch shows for all on the server, not just an individual.

EDIT:

Fresh Generated map with A20.1 Exp.

Also weird but we are getting feral in the city and that started on day 2 ... quite a few.

 

spacer.png

Edited by LewZephyr (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Yes, a few. But my current map was generated in A20 b238.

Dunno if they fixed anything in A20.1 Exp.

I updated my post to reflect that it is a fresh map on A20.1 Exp.

Thanks for the verification that its not something just affecting my server.

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3 hours ago, LewZephyr said:

Anyone else getting these Ghost Blocks.

I never had in 8 runs in A20B238.  (Or I didn't see them when they happened.) I had my first a few hours ago in A20.1 EXP. (a few mods and not default settings)  It only lasted about a second.  I did not recognized the area that popped in.  It was in a industrial district.  I could not get it to come back.  Am hoping it will happen again so I can do more testing.

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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17 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

So how do the brain stimulating devices replicate themselves and move over to the next guy bitten by a zombie? What is their energy source? I don't doubt that brain stimulating devices are possible, but I don't really see how they would explain zombies, neither Romero's nor the ones in 7D2D, without resorting to some form of magic.

 

 

It's drugs. Brain enhancing evolution drugs.

 

Here is the circumstantial evidence: Cops are more mutated than nurses. If it was a disease, then the nurses would have been exposed first, and would have more mutations. However, based on gameplay and what we see: Cops are mutated, feral wrights now look suspiciously like thugs, as do spider zombies. The party girls also seem to be more infectious than the hazmat, and the hazmat guys look more like the meth clean up squad than bio hazard people. The people that are mutated, are the people that would most likely be exposed to people on drugs before the first responders. 

 

These are not sick zombies, these are stoned zombies, dangerous stoned zombies on the really good stuff. The drugs really did rot their brains. 

 

 

Edited by SenpaiThatIngnoresYou (see edit history)
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