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Alpha 20 Dev Diary


madmole

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My experience with A20 so far has been a huge change in how I’ve played past alphas. For as long as I can remember, mining iron has been a main priority until A20. A good majority of base defense, mods, vehicle creation was iron-dependent. Iron for iron bars, iron for mods, steel for mods and vehicle/weapon creation had made the game iron-dependent at least for our playstyle. With A20, iron has become less dominant. Yes it’s still needed for mods & vehicles but not as important for base defense…. I love this! I shouldn’t need to depend so much on one resource so the changes to blocks, especially the upgrading of bars has leveled the playing field so to speak of resources. While playing a ‘normal’ game with friends on a server, I’m also playing a single player game with blood moons turned off, doing nothing other than quests and exploring all the new pois in this alpha. The variety in pois are astonishing and am completely enjoying the exploration. Huge kudos to the poi development crew! I’ve been at this game since A6 and this A20 has been my my favorite alpha thus far. I’m having way too much fun, the challenge is top notch even for someone with way too many hours in the game. I cannot in all honesty say anything bad here. I have not experienced everything this alpha has offered but am definitely ecstatic so far. Call me a homer, idc….I’m a happy camper.

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I remember pages ago people were griping about the new sound of things hitting/salvaging metal. 

Although I agree it was weird, it wasn't the worst change by far. 

 

However was mining affected by this? I thought it was but I was augering some iron yesterday & it was the same annoying "ping ping ping ping" loud sound. 

Maybe it was reverted back during one of the updates.... idk.

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7 hours ago, dcsobral said:

I seem to recall there was a way to show chunk boundaries. Does anyone know how?

Not sure about other ways to do it, but I remember the "heat map" overlay would certainly show chunks.

 

Edit : oh, I see someone else already replied with the correct answer :biggrin1:

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)
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On 1/8/2022 at 5:57 PM, Doomofman said:

Good to hear the stability fix is coming along.

 

Do you know if any progress has been made on the teleporting/disappearing vehicles issue? Had my furthest teleport today when I started my game. My bike was almost 700m away from where I left it when I quit previously

Stability fix is done. The second issue we found was actually just a display issue with the show stability view, which is now fixed.

 

All or most of the issues with players/zombies/turrets/vehicles falling through ground appear to be caused by the world origin shift. It happens about 4 times more often in a20, so these bugs are more apparent. It seems to be a random Unity physics update problem after the origin changes, causing physics casts to fail. I've tried a ton of stuff and added a rapid origin shifting mode to repro it quickly. I now have the Origin code doing extra physics updating that reduces the problem to one frame and a raycast which detects when it happens, so I can try even more adjustments to fix it.

On 1/8/2022 at 11:18 PM, Tmodloader said:

How is progress on coding generic bandit AI going? This is my biggest worry for the game, as no other game has been able to pull off such a thing correctly. 

They should do what a lot of other games do, and they probably will. 4 slots for actual stat clothing, 4 slots for cosmetic overrides.

I've not started on it yet. There are bugs that need fixing first for a20.1 and we are still sorting out what is going into a21 and who is doing what as we have added several new programmers to the team.

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14 minutes ago, faatal said:

I now have the Origin code doing extra physics updating that reduces the problem to one frame and a raycast which detects when it happens, so I can try even more adjustments to fix it.

Wow! That sounds like some nasty stuff! :confused2:

 

15 minutes ago, faatal said:

as we have added several new programmers to the team.

I hope they can be eased in, in just a few months, so they can really start contributing to the team.

I can't imagine how difficult is to pick a new person and explain to him/her the massive code "mess" that is 7D2D! :smash::biggrin1:

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3 hours ago, faatal said:

Stability fix is done. The second issue we found was actually just a display issue with the show stability view, which is now fixed.

 

All or most of the issues with players/zombies/turrets/vehicles falling through ground appear to be caused by the world origin shift. It happens about 4 times more often in a20, so these bugs are more apparent. It seems to be a random Unity physics update problem after the origin changes, causing physics casts to fail. I've tried a ton of stuff and added a rapid origin shifting mode to repro it quickly. I now have the Origin code doing extra physics updating that reduces the problem to one frame and a raycast which detects when it happens, so I can try even more adjustments to fix it.

 

Don't know what half of that means but keep up the good work 😝

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18 hours ago, Mungo said:

 

Remember reading this the other day and I know Joe's checked the switch config and as Red Eagle has mentioned - it's not repeatable enough, but I did want to throw in another experience I just had along the same topic.

 

Driving past the larger COC Chemicals factory in the wasteland city - the one with the twin larger roller doors at the back and heard a garage door open. I play solo, and hadn't explored this part of the map yet, so the area/POI would have freshly loaded. I flipped around to see the garage door opening by itself. Was freaky, seeing as I play Solo. Got out of the 4x4, wandered up and sure enough - it was open. Walked in, killed the zombies and then pressed the button on the inside and the garage door began to close. Thankfully it's a slower one and I made it out or I would have been locked inside seeing as these switches are a 1 shot deal.

 

So there's definitely something funky with the electricals on these new button/key setups - just not super common. This was on day 41 of my playthrough (2hr days, so 82hrs in) and that's the 1st one I've experienced.

 

EDIT: 2nd POI in the same playthrough above. Dude Bro's building, same wasteland city. Hadn't been into that POI either, but as I went past I noticed all the loot on ground floor through both doors wide open. Walked in, killed Z's, looted and then checked the keys. Yup - grabbed keys, both doors shut, locking me in. I went out the bulletproof glass right next to where the key button is....structural integrity on that is not great.

I'm gunna load this same seed up on my laptop and fly to both coordinates of the POI's I've found above and see if I can replicate the experience.

Going add that I just had the same thing happen (garage door opened as I approached) POI house_old_ranch_01.   I had been by the POI many times before, but as I rode by today the garage door opened.

 

There definitely does seem something odd about these new triggered doors.  Not that I mind the occasional quick into the loot room but I don't think that is intended behavior.

 

Edited by Red Eagle LXIX (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

Going add that I just had the same thing happen (garage door opened as I approached) POI house_old_ranch_01.   I had been by the POI many times, but as I rode by today the garage door opened.

 

There definitely does seem something odd about these new triggered doors.  Not that I mind the occasional quick into the loot room but I don't think that is intended behavior.

 

nothing a few timed charges won't legitimately take care of

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6 hours ago, faatal said:

I've not started on it yet. There are bugs that need fixing first for a20.1 and we are still sorting out what is going into a21 and who is doing what as we have added several new programmers to the team.

Programmers are like Pokemon. They take time to train, but when they evolve and you teach them some moves, they can do amazing things.

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21 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Programmers are like Pokemon. They take time to train, but when they evolve and you teach them some moves, they can do amazing things.

 

Programmers are like refrigerators with open doors. You put pizzas into them and soon bugs multiply. 😎

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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On 1/9/2022 at 9:12 AM, Roland said:


I agree that more variety will be nice and that will take time for them to hook up additional POIs for quests. In the meantime you have some control over that by doing quests for different traders instead of only doing quests for one trader. I have three traders in my network  currently and they each have a different set of POIs for doing quests. 

 

In a recent playthrough, I have made it a point to not quest any POIs I have already done so I can experience all of the POIs that the game has to offer as well as to keep things feeling fresh.  I also mark them on my map so if I forget whether or not I have done a particular POI, I can easily cancel that quest and accept another.

 

It would be great of the game did this automatically for me but until then I can manage. :)

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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It would be nice if the game kept track of the POIs you do quests for and at least tries to avoid sending you to the same type of POI very often. And early on, since all traders on city edges, and city edges are always farms, almost all quests are farm related ones. The farms look nice, but they get old pretty quick when you have to quest a bunch of them in a row.

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38 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

It would be nice if the game kept track of the POIs you do quests for and at least tries to avoid sending you to the same type of POI very often. And early on, since all traders on city edges, and city edges are always farms, almost all quests are farm related ones. The farms look nice, but they get old pretty quick when you have to quest a bunch of them in a row.

It would be nice if the trader avoided sending you to the same POI twice or at least change the text color so you know it's one you've done already

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2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

In a recent playthrough, I have made it a point to not quest any POIs I have already done so I can experience all of the POIs that the game has to offer as well as to keep things feeling fresh.  I also mark them on my map so if I forget whether or not I have done a particular POI, I can easily cancel that quest and accept another.

 

It would be great of the game did this automatically for me but until then I can manage. :)

If i did this i would have no quests left to do. i do have other tradies but they exhibit the same behaviour. the tradie knows i have a bike as he gave it to me. make me use it.

😁😁🚲😁

Edited by spud42 (see edit history)
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Ok you removed fall damage from zombies this is true for dead flesh but why don't they get the debuff from fracture why don't they slow down?
Another nuance, why do zombies run around mines and other spikes?

Zombies are a car rushing straight without a driver - this is a blind thirst for killing all living things, and you made them damn geniuses who, after an improved block by you, switch their attention to a weak block. Are they telepaths? Why didn't they create a new civilization with such intelligence, because their IQ is clearly no less than yours!
Crawling zombies damage the player through closed doors, frames, and blocks.
That's not what you guys do.

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1 hour ago, Perspective out of focus said:

Ok you removed fall damage from zombies this is true for dead flesh but why don't they get the debuff from fracture why don't they slow down?
Another nuance, why do zombies run around mines and other spikes?

Zombies are a car rushing straight without a driver - this is a blind thirst for killing all living things, and you made them damn geniuses who, after an improved block by you, switch their attention to a weak block. Are they telepaths? Why didn't they create a new civilization with such intelligence, because their IQ is clearly no less than yours!
Crawling zombies damage the player through closed doors, frames, and blocks.

That's not what you guys do.

Fascinating name.  Seems like that is what they have done.  I'll assume you understand the game is in alpha which would probably explain the damage through doors, frames, blocks, etc.

 

As for the rest of your comments, it might help to know that this has been discussed many times and the result has been: there are all kinds of zombies.  As time has progressed various media (movies, books, comics, etc.) have introduced zombies that have new capabilities (like z's that run, etc.)  TFP is still developing THEIR 'zombie' story and TFP z's may have even newer capabilities.  

 

TFP z's could have adamantium/vibranium (hyperbole?) like bone structures, teeth and fingernails.  Some might have a little intelligence, others not.  Some or all could have a kind of 'spidey-sense' (maybe as part of a hive/group mind) for danger or living things or whatever.   (And, btw, if someone wants to point out that if that were the case then why are some missing limbs, or parts of flesh, etc.  Well, how long does whatever is causing people to turn into TFP Z's take?  Maybe it takes time.  That's only one answer.  I would suspect others with a greater imagination than me could come up with even more...)

 

btw - people used to complain a lot about z's doing straight lines: (one example)

https://www.reddit.com/r/7daystodie/comments/7u23ok/the_hive_mind/

 

btw2: Since TFP hasn't settled on a story yet, we don't even know what kinds of things could be affecting our avatars.  They could have insomnia, reduced intelligence (but never enough to affect bacon and eggs!) and/or something in their body/system/brain/blood that affects TFP Z's 'spidey-sense'.  And, maybe TFP Z's have a limited form of 'mind-reading', sensing, etc. because of that.

 

"I suspect that once TFP rolls up the game into what they want it to be they'll use very bright people with a LOT of imagination to help define the story and the world and why it works the way it does.  Maybe then 'reality' and 'immersion' will be more 'acceptable'."

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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Quantum Blue, Neo wake up, it's already the 20th alpha! Adamantium zombies? What's next, maybe a zombie piloting a shuttle or a zombie mage and a summoner? Freedom of thought and flight of fancy - this is chained to the existing realities and known physical laws, everything else is damn Narnia with Harry Potter!

And by the way, you are very good at rewriting history, remakes and substituting concepts, you succeeded in this (generalization) in the real world with your flight of fancy and freedom of thought. In fact, this is called a fat frenzy, when always full looking for new tastes and new foods to become full. Try not to eat for two days and oatmeal will seem extremely tasty to you. The world is already on the verge of starvation and resource shortage, so already now you should not count on a daily lobster with a cigarette of marijuana.

Edited by Perspective out of focus (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Perspective out of focus said:

Ok you removed fall damage from zombies this is true for dead flesh but why don't they get the debuff from fracture why don't they slow down?
Another nuance, why do zombies run around mines and other spikes?

Zombies are a car rushing straight without a driver - this is a blind thirst for killing all living things, and you made them damn geniuses who, after an improved block by you, switch their attention to a weak block. Are they telepaths? Why didn't they create a new civilization with such intelligence, because their IQ is clearly no less than yours!
Crawling zombies damage the player through closed doors, frames, and blocks.
That's not what you guys do.

 

Two points that may help you:

* Fall damage should still hurt zombies up to 1/3rd of their total hitpoints per fall AFAIK. If not, make a bug report. EDIT: Made a short test and yes, they still get fall damage, in my test 10% of total hitpoints for a fall of ~25 blocks

 

Traps are seen like any other block by zombies and they don't want to jump on a block when they can run around it. So just dig holes for the traps. If their top is level with the ground the zombies will happily walk over them.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Just had a thought for A21 (or beyond.)

 

Perhaps traders could have station slots wherein survivors could gain special quests after completing a certain line.

 

The special quest could be one or more per trader - to unlock an npc survivor from the world who would take up the station in the trader.

 

The survivor npc could then provide you with a service, for example questing for food or charging dukes to cook special recipes that the player cannot cook, the same going for the work bench or an armourers bench to craft novel weapons or armour that aren't lootable or craftable.

 

This would populate the traders and give a little breath of life and also open opportunities for more quests and add a little extra something to the game. Thoughts? 

Edited by Beelzebubs Ghost (see edit history)
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7 hours ago, Perspective out of focus said:

Ok you removed fall damage from zombies this is true for dead flesh but why don't they get the debuff from fracture why don't they slow down?
Another nuance, why do zombies run around mines and other spikes?

Zombies are a car rushing straight without a driver - this is a blind thirst for killing all living things, and you made them damn geniuses who, after an improved block by you, switch their attention to a weak block. Are they telepaths? Why didn't they create a new civilization with such intelligence, because their IQ is clearly no less than yours!
Crawling zombies damage the player through closed doors, frames, and blocks.
That's not what you guys do.

I dont like that they focus on weaker points if that is true, but I'd prefer that they did have more chances at destroying structural integrity than they do now. I witnessed in A20, zombies focused on attacking the building next to the one I was in, instead of bringing down my tower. No damage done to my tower at all, they nearly destroyed a nearby building though

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9 hours ago, Perspective out of focus said:

"... this is chained to the existing realities and known physical laws, ..."

Because zombies are real?  (and didn't I use the word 'hyperbole'?  That was to foster imaginative thinking.)

 

I have spent some thought on this since my last posting and I have my own story - hopefully without resorting to hyperbole...

 

A few years into the future a lab is working on nanorobotics (look it up - it's real) that augment the human body and/or mind.  And a nuclear war breaks out and hits the lab causing some of the living experiments (dogs, people, whatever) to become mutated versions.  And they break out and start infecting others.  Voila!

Edited by Quantum Blue (see edit history)
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Is the vehicle teleport bug already resolved? If yes when will this be fixed for the players?

 

Can't play for a single evening where this does not happen. Now again my gyrocopter has been teleported 5 blocks below sand. Don't even know whether there was a hole there before or the gyrocopter replaced sand blocks.

 

I know "alpha... bugs have to be expected..." but as much as I wonder how such a game breaking bug (same with turrets falling through blocks) can find its way into a "stable" version I'd like to know when this is supposed to be fixed so I might just pause playing 7D2D until then.

 

Or is there a way to prevent that right now?

 

Edit:

21 minutes later next teleportation.

Edited by PoloPoPo (see edit history)
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