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Alpha 20 Dev Diary


madmole

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yeah as far as i remember... rwg means Random World Generations and the keyword -> random.

 

so if we knew where the biomes were all the time, then why have RWG? hmmm just a thought... no wait.. is something burning <looks around> :)

 

 

but if you generate a world that has the biomes the way you like it, then move that folder to the world folder and then create a new game using the the name of that folder you moved and then give it a seed name and bamm... you should have the biomes where you want them but some deco may/will be different.. everything else should be good.

 

Edited by unholyjoe (see edit history)
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Would it be possible for someone to either give or estimate server recommendations for alpha 20. We run our own server for 2 to 4 people. 

 

Running 8000 series i3 with 24 gigs ram. It served well for 19 but would like to know if upgrade is needed. I cannot find anything released by the fun pimps. All I find is people's opinions, and you know what that is wirth lol. 

 

Seriously  though, a reasonable estimation, even if it is over estimated would be appreciated. 

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On 10/25/2021 at 9:46 AM, meganoth said:

 

You are mentioning balance, but then your argument goes on about it "reflecting someone" who has high intelligence instead of hand eye coordination. That is not a balance argument.

 

8 perks instead of 10 is possibly a balance argument but ignores that the perks itself have vastly different value. I would say demolition is one of the prime PER perks, without it PER would be the pariah of all attribute classes. 

 

In my view the sledge turret is by far the most ammo-saving item on horde nights in the game, ahead of electric fence and blade trap. But junk turrets are more useful in POIs as safety/support device. Since I lately played too much MP where we always had a miner in the group I can't judge ammo efficiency correctly, but I can say that as a precaution against dying junk turrets are excellent. 

 

 

Oh yeah. I completely agree on my points not being about salient or mechanical game balance. Personal feelings don't always make for intelligent design or for unbiased balance considerations. (however, feelings can inform how people derive fun/enjoyment or stumbling blocks to immersion/accessibility). Half the fun I get from playing is treating the game like a SP permadeath roguelike, mixing and matching from the different trees, and seeing where the run takes you until death and then starting fresh on a new seed. Limiting yourself to a single tree can be a fun challenge, but good design is about tough choices that make want to try out something else 'next time'. 

 

Junk turrets absolutely have their utility as both a safety net and a temporary force multiplier, but they aren't a 1:1 replacement for a primary ranged weapon from other trees (and they shouldn't need to be). That said, Sledge turrets are exceptional workhorses and at times I feel like durability degradation like electrical traps might be needed for proper balance.

 

I really like seeing more support potential added to the game and I would love to see more design for the MP/Co-op crowd.

 

really hope the Physician perk works with the drone's heal.

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2 hours ago, unholyjoe said:

yeah as far as i remember... rwg means Random World Generations and the keyword -> random.

 

so if we knew where the biomes were all the time, then why have RWG? hmmm just a thought... no wait.. is something burning <looks around> :)

 

 

I don't think it's this way any more, but in past alphas, the biome map was the exact same map, except that it could be rotated. Maybe that's what he was asking about?

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2 hours ago, khzmusik said:

 

I don't think it's this way any more, but in past alphas, the biome map was the exact same map, except that it could be rotated. Maybe that's what he was asking about?

i will have to say that with thinking before i said it... my statement is for a20 as rwg is random as Roland has hinted.. but yes that does not apply to a19 vanilla.

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On 10/25/2021 at 1:56 PM, Roland said:

 

If you are looking for a straightforward simple game of attack the zombies by direct damage then yes. The strength build is like classic and basic gameplay. The tools for mining and harvesting, the recipes for food, and the basic club that the tutorial starts you with are all in that build so it is very easy and obvious-- a great build for your first playthrough as a noob or for someone who just likes things straightforward no matter how many times they play.

 

Choosing a different build and ignoring strength for the most part brings new challenges and a different way of playing if you so choose.

 

Yeah, basically from the experimenting I was doing it seemed like no matter what you wanted to do, you should invest in strength first.  At least if you are trying to be optimal. 

 

Strength is pretty strong for both combat and building, and you will usually power level with strength to make up for the points wasted on it, even if you primarily want to focus on intelligence. 

 

That said, the experience and stuff from killing and questing is balanced pretty well, and it probably would not be super hard to get most of the trees balanced almost equally, if you guys wanted to do that. 

 

For instance, if the secret stash perk allowed you to buy infinite amounts of materials from the vendor, or at least enough to where you could rely on it as your primary way of getting materials, then you would instantly have an alternative for strength. 

 

At the same time, if wrench farming were tweaked, then you could invest in that instead and make looting with the wrench your primary source of building materials while questing.  At which point you could bypass strength again. 

 

The current balance is pretty good though, but most optimal leveling builds are going to use strength first. 

 

It would be cool if intelligence turrets were buffed in some way while using them as a primary weapon.  They just are not very good as a primary weapon atm. 

 

A stone tier crappy melee turret would be more fun that a pipe baton, probably...

 

A melee turret like the current rust turret could be fun as well... where it is basically an arm and you can put any melee weapon in it and have it attack... Ranged would be cool too, but probably too much trouble. 

 

Or you could just bring back the feature of the drone being able to hold a stun baton, but limit it to the last level of the robotics perk.  Make it unusable by someone without it until the weapon is removed. 

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5 hours ago, wclem1974 said:

Would it be possible for someone to either give or estimate server recommendations for alpha 20. We run our own server for 2 to 4 people. 

 

Running 8000 series i3 with 24 gigs ram. It served well for 19 but would like to know if upgrade is needed. I cannot find anything released by the fun pimps. All I find is people's opinions, and you know what that is wirth lol. 

 

Seriously  though, a reasonable estimation, even if it is over estimated would be appreciated. 

I sincerely doubt you'd have a problem with a headless server. Before my upgrade, I was running two instances (granted, as docker containers, but still) on a Ryzen 5 1600AF with 64GB of RAM. At no point did I ever see the CPU load, even with 6-7 players on each server, exceed 15%. Usually it  was around 3-5% per instance. Memory usage was usually right around 4GB per instance; maybe spiking up to 6 or 7GB but I doubt it.

 

Now, that's as I said, in Docker containers and on Linux. Right now with nobody playing I'm sitting at 4GB of RAM and 0.7% of CPU. I have no idea what you might run into on a Windows platform, but really, you're not likely to have issues with that hardware for a long, long time. 

 

EDIT: Yes, my numbers are A19 and he was asking about A20. The point is, CPU usage  for a server is MAYBE 1-2% on A19 for a similar generation CPU. Nothing I've seen or heard indicates A20 is 50-100 times harder on CPU usage for servers, and while it does use 4GB of RAM, I doubt the game will increase RAM usage by a factor of 6.

Edited by bobross (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, Weazelsun said:

@faatal @madmole 

 

1) Is the map still going to have snow in the north and desert to the south as it currently is right now? 

 

2) How many new props/ decoration blocks are there for A20?

RWG biomes are random. These are the biome images of the 2 worlds I currently have:

image.png.42f9fb0087ece100c6f90977ca2c7e43.png

 

Don't know the old numbers. Currently there are 1295 shapes:

image.png.57782b93243ec05e644caa4f91dabd63.png

7 hours ago, wclem1974 said:

Would it be possible for someone to either give or estimate server recommendations for alpha 20. We run our own server for 2 to 4 people. 

 

Running 8000 series i3 with 24 gigs ram. It served well for 19 but would like to know if upgrade is needed. I cannot find anything released by the fun pimps. All I find is people's opinions, and you know what that is wirth lol. 

 

Seriously  though, a reasonable estimation, even if it is over estimated would be appreciated. 

It is basically the same, but better in some cases and worse in others:

+ Some things are more optimized, but those changes mostly target FPS smoothness.

- RWG towns are more dense, so more blocks. Downtowns more so. Designers are still padding and tweaking POIs/tiles.

- Towns have more zombies. Downtowns more so. Those are still being tested and numbers tweaked.

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25 minutes ago, faatal said:

RWG biomes are random. These are the biome images of the 2 worlds I currently have:

image.png.42f9fb0087ece100c6f90977ca2c7e43.png

 

Don't know the old numbers. Currently there are 1295 shapes:

image.png.57782b93243ec05e644caa4f91dabd63.png

It is basically the same, but better in some cases and worse in others:

+ Some things are more optimized, but those changes mostly target FPS smoothness.

- RWG towns are more dense, so more blocks. Downtowns more so. Designers are still padding and tweaking POIs/tiles.

- Towns have more zombies. Downtowns more so. Those are still being tested and numbers tweaked.

-I'm a bit concerned about the map limits. Robert said that the plan is to have difficult terrain (mountains/water/quarantine warning fences?) in the whole border area to warn players, but I'm quite in disbelief of that intended design making it to a20, and therefore I predict a lot of rage quitting due to the same prealpha 19 "tickle borders". Sure enough new players dying to the borders is a low priority thing. 

 

5ryk62.jpg

 

 

-Aren't the shapes growing in number still? That is crazy.

 

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6 hours ago, pregnable said:

 

Yeah, basically from the experimenting I was doing it seemed like no matter what you wanted to do, you should invest in strength first.  At least if you are trying to be optimal. 

 

Strength is pretty strong for both combat and building, and you will usually power level with strength to make up for the points wasted on it, even if you primarily want to focus on intelligence. 

 

That said, the experience and stuff from killing and questing is balanced pretty well, and it probably would not be super hard to get most of the trees balanced almost equally, if you guys wanted to do that. 

 

For instance, if the secret stash perk allowed you to buy infinite amounts of materials from the vendor, or at least enough to where you could rely on it as your primary way of getting materials, then you would instantly have an alternative for strength. 

 

At the same time, if wrench farming were tweaked, then you could invest in that instead and make looting with the wrench your primary source of building materials while questing.  At which point you could bypass strength again. 

 

The current balance is pretty good though, but most optimal leveling builds are going to use strength first. 

 

It would be cool if intelligence turrets were buffed in some way while using them as a primary weapon.  They just are not very good as a primary weapon atm. 

 

A stone tier crappy melee turret would be more fun that a pipe baton, probably...

 

A melee turret like the current rust turret could be fun as well... where it is basically an arm and you can put any melee weapon in it and have it attack... Ranged would be cool too, but probably too much trouble. 

 

Or you could just bring back the feature of the drone being able to hold a stun baton, but limit it to the last level of the robotics perk.  Make it unusable by someone without it until the weapon is removed. 

 

I don't know, man... Maybe so, but I'm a hell of a mini-maxer and Strength will only get the odd point for quite a while. Combat skills are unnecessary, unless you are playing at higher difficulty levels -- in which case the argument should be "strength is optimal at higher difficulty levels", which is not, of course, the default. Until you put a lot of points into it the combat skills pale in comparison to the actual gun, and Intellect means better guns faster. And experience??? Upgrade. I usually do one point in Sex T and one in Miner 69er and then wait until get the cigar. One point in Sex T so I don't get tired all the time, one in Miner to unlock iron tools, dig buried supplies and break crates faster.

 

Do you think a 5% increase in combat effectiveness translates into faster zombie killing? How many hits does it take to kill a zombie? Two, three? How likely it is that 5% will push it to one or two? Not very.

 

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With the map's borders you could allow for interconnecting maps in some future alpha or game.  Have some JIT process, so precreation of maps would not be required.   Of course having one "Mother-of-all-map" matrix already made for some huge city (like NYC for example) would make it so you could include the airport, accurately placed, as well.

 

It would not be overwhelming difficult, but it would be another thing to code, test and debug.

 

Also you could prompt the user with some non game breaking message like: : The highway ahead says 30 miles to the next town, do you want to go down that road?  (1000 Gas required).

 

Something like that.

Edited by Aldranon (see edit history)
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9 hours ago, faatal said:

RWG biomes are random. These are the biome images of the 2 worlds I currently have:

image.png.42f9fb0087ece100c6f90977ca2c7e43.png

 

 

 

this is a bit better than the same png just rotated around. I do wish it would put a bit more randomness into the png a few spots as sub-biomes, but this is as I said still better than the old way.

Edited by wolfbain5 (see edit history)
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45 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

@faatal this looks like typical "modern" painting.  Well idk how but you guys create RPG ( Random Painting Generator)- just create this as painting and sell for 150$

I think I know WHO you're referring to as precedent... :lol:

1 minute ago, Doomofman said:

What's missing? Wasteland or Burnt?

Those two have been joined into one.

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6 hours ago, dcsobral said:

How many hits does it take to kill a zombie? Two, three?

 

Depends on your difficulty level. I play Warrior and it can be six hits or more in the beginning unless I get lucky with a decapitation and increasing your chance for decapitations is exactly what perking into your weapon of choice does.

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