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3 minutes ago, Raveman1000 said:

Needing parts to repair stuff would be an unnecessary hassle in my opinion. I really like the convenience of the repair kit. Having to go out with parts for your tools, weapons and armors would clutter an already limited inventory space. I know that repairing everything before getting out would be an option, but in a lot of situation you need to repair on the go.

 

While I agree that having stuff to do with parts late game would be nice, I don't think it should done by removing the repair kits.

Repairing anything at all can be considered an unnecessary hassle.   The question is what makes balanced game play?   Right now, I feel like maintaining gear is way too easy... there are no difficult choices to make.  Repair kits are, in my experience, very easy to find early game and very easy to make late game.   Personally, I end up with stacks of more of them than I'd ever need.    

 

In my current game, by day 50 I had mostly all Q6 gear making almost all the gear I found since irrelevant.   

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18 hours ago, Maxley said:

The way it works right now is not good game design. People purposefully delay opening chests and shipping crates because they know if they open them at like level 20 or under they're only going to get a stone axe and a blunderbuss.

Its the biggest complaint that most people have with A19. Every time I watch someone on youtube try A19 they always comment on how every loot chest just contains stone tier tools/weapons.

Its not complicated at all to change this. Its just a change in loot chance percentages with different rates depending on the type of container. And while they are at it, if they could make certain container types like weapons bags and guns safes spawn less often but make them contain a higher chance of better loot, that would be even better.

I want above stone tier weapons/tools to still be rare in the early game and limited in their usability by making them expensive to maintain.

I believe that the talked about change for A20 would fix the current issue without all the changes you suggest. If I understand correctly, they will implement an increase in game stage for POI based on tier. For example (made up numbers):

 

Tier 1: +0 game stage

Tier 2: +5 game stage

Tier 3: +15 game stage

Tier 4: +30 game stage

Tier 5: +50 game stage

 

That game stage increase would apply to loot and zombie spawns, meaning that you could find a gun day one if you go into a high tier poi. Of course it will be harder to grab the loot than it is now, but you get the risk vs reward effet.

 

Those numbers could be floored, maxed or tweaked with testing, but I believe that the spirit of this change would satisfy most players.

3 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Repairing anything at all can be considered an unnecessary hassle.   The question is what makes balanced game play?   Right now, I feel like maintaining gear is way too easy... there are no difficult choices to make.  Repair kits are, in my experience, very easy to find early game and very easy to make late game.   Personally, I end up with stacks of more of them than I'd ever need.    

 

In my current game, by day 50 I had mostly all Q6 gear making almost all the gear I found since irrelevant.   

Maybe they could make the highest tier weapons require parts but the lowest tier ones keep as is. For example the woodend club requires wood, the baseball bat the repair kit and the steel club some steel parts. So for each weapon line you would have the entry level weapon requiring basic ressources or repair kits, but the high end ones would require parts.

 

I find that having to invest parts early game both in the crafting of entry level weapons and the maintenance of it to be too punishing.

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What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

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24 minutes ago, Roland said:

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

Are you still doing your no repair play through?   What did you think of it?

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22 minutes ago, Roland said:

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

If they would remove repair kits I like this suggestion the most. It keeps everything relevant no matter the game stage and prevent a lucky find from making the game too easy. I like that it makes the perk even more relevant as you would need to rely on crafted gear until you find another Q6 one.

 

They just need to tune the durability so that the weapons last at least one horde night ;).

 

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8 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Are you still doing your no repair play through?   What did you think of it?

It’s no longer a single no repair play through. It is now my voluntary way of playing much like dead is dead. I give myself a single repair because it is a bit annoying at the current durability levels. I’d give myself two repairs but who can track and remember all that?

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2 hours ago, Raveman1000 said:

If they would remove repair kits I like this suggestion the most. It keeps everything relevant no matter the game stage and prevent a lucky find from making the game too easy. I like that it makes the perk even more relevant as you would need to rely on crafted gear until you find another Q6 one.

 

They just need to tune the durability so that the weapons last at least one horde night ;).

 

What is interesting is that by going one step further than just removing repair kits and not even repairing T0 items that don't require a repair kit, all of a sudden those containers with extra T0 items aren't so useless. It's nice to scrap my old and replace with a found one with more durability and same or better quality. Managing mod slots gets old but if durability was extended more then it wouldn't be quite so often.

 

YMMV, but I find that playing no-repair is worth the inconvenience of re-tooling your mods.

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4 hours ago, Raveman1000 said:

Needing parts to repair stuff would be an unnecessary hassle in my opinion. I really like the convenience of the repair kit. Having to go out with parts for your tools, weapons and armors would clutter an already limited inventory space. I know that repairing everything before getting out would be an option, but in a lot of situation you need to repair on the go.

 

While I agree that having stuff to do with parts late game would be nice, I don't think it should done by removing the repair kits.

I can agree that using parts to repair would be a hassle now that I think about it more. So instead I think tools/weapons should just cost more repair kits to fully repair. This would make getting a tier 1 weapon like a pistol early game not OP as you might need up to 5 repair kits to repair it whereas blunderbusses just take 1 metal pipe.

 

4 hours ago, Raveman1000 said:

I believe that the talked about change for A20 would fix the current issue without all the changes you suggest. If I understand correctly, they will implement an increase in game stage for POI based on tier. For example (made up numbers):

 

Tier 1: +0 game stage

Tier 2: +5 game stage

Tier 3: +15 game stage

Tier 4: +30 game stage

Tier 5: +50 game stage

 

That game stage increase would apply to loot and zombie spawns, meaning that you could find a gun day one if you go into a high tier poi. Of course it will be harder to grab the loot than it is now, but you get the risk vs reward effet.

 

Those numbers could be floored, maxed or tweaked with testing, but I believe that the spirit of this change would satisfy most players.

I think this would be a good idea. I hope they implement this.

 

4 hours ago, Roland said:

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game.

I agree the most with this idea. I suggested it to Madmole before and he considered it before striking it down with great emotional vigor. I think the Fun Pimps would go with this direction except for the fact that probably 30% or more of the player base would cry out in anguish.

The permanent breakage of items is one of the main features that makes Zelda Breath of the Wild extremely iconic. If they didn't have this feature, they game would be seriously less fun. Having to think on my feet and use whatever weapons were at my disposal forced me to learn different styles of combat.

I hope they reconsider this. However I think there should still be repairing, but a weapon can be repaired only so many times, like 3 or 4 times for example. In this case they should keep the current durability stats as is.

Edited by Maxley (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Maxley said:

I suggested it to Madmole before and he considered it before striking it down with great emotional vigor.

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

 

Not as many times as child zombies tho...

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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11 minutes ago, Roland said:

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

 

Not as many times as child zombies tho...

Which is why i avoided talking about it and instead propose a change loot rates for weapons tools and ammunition depending on container type and poi difficulty. And also just making repairing things more expensive.

Indeed child zombies which in turn are closely rivaled by the all too common Arizonan lake piranha and the zombie alligator

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7 hours ago, Roland said:

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

If they go down this path, I would hope we get more parts for scrapping a Q6 item, than we do when we scrap a Q2 item.
Would also kinda suck looting a Q6 item and it's already down half it's durability.

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2 hours ago, Roland said:

That's because ALL of this stuff having to do with entropy in the game has been brought up over and over again for years. We just had this same exact thread a month or two ago. We just rehash the same things again and again.

Well of course it keeps coming up again.... we all LBD, don't we?

Edited by Kalen (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, Roland said:

(They won’t go down this road)

 

For mass market appeal, snowball progression is fun while managing entropy is not. 

Im not really fond of removing repair altogether but i can see how it could balance a lot of things.

I have 2 suggestions what would fit the game and would be balanced:

 

First repair by hand is only possible with repair packs but repair packs are now rare and expensive items.(stone tools excluded) Seriously we dont need them raining down on us. Change the recipe to be fitting the desired economy like:

 

  • 10 Forged Iron, 20 Oil, 10 Ductape, 50 Mechanical and Electrical Parts, Claw Hammer, Wrench
  • Duke cost up to 8000 per piece

This would make making them an expensive choice to make for early and midgame players and a moderately high one for endgame folks. After this setting the droprate to 1 with 2% chance would make sure that its rare to actually find one.

 

 

The second one is that repair without kit is only possible at a workbench. Stone tools excluded but everything the game has now costs their specific parts to be repaired with either forged iron or forged steel. Every tier like in crafting increases the base costs of reparing.

For example T4 M60:

 

  • 40 Machine gun parts (10 at T1 and +10/tier) + 8 Forged Steel (2 at T1 and +2/tier)

This would make sure that most players cant stockpile up weapon parts too because they are consumed for repairs and due to being only avaible at a workbench the player can only really repair in their homebases.

Edited by Solomon (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, Roland said:

What they should really do is get rid of repair altogether. Then you use parts to just make a new item.  Triple the durability of everything to make them last longer before they’re junk and can be scrapped...for parts. 
 

Then, mods that increase durability are actually meaningful and finding a tier 3 weapon early on will only be a temporary advantage instead of lasting the entire game. 

I can see myself playing the game only with pipe weapons. And bare fists.

And dying a lot. Like in previous alphas. (Anyone remembers the movie The Gamers: Dorkness Rising? Because I'm the bard!)

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Probably been suggested before, but what if repairing decreased QL by 1?  If they could find a way to keep mod slots, so you don't have to re-slot, but do get the requisite dmg/durability decreases for being lower QL, it would provide a good incentive to replace your gear periodically without killing you if durability ran out mid-Hordenight.  It might make the bonus durability from armor perks useful, too.

 

You could even let it reduce mod slots, as long as the game function as it does now, where if mods somehow get into an item that doesn't have mod slots, it stays there until you remove it.  So if your item degrades you have to decide "Do I leave those mods, or do I lose the ability to have as many in it if I want to change them?"

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10 minutes ago, stample said:

Probably been suggested before, but what if repairing decreased QL by 1?  If they could find a way to keep mod slots, so you don't have to re-slot, but do get the requisite dmg/durability decreases for being lower QL, it would provide a good incentive to replace your gear periodically without killing you if durability ran out mid-Hordenight.  It might make the bonus durability from armor perks useful, too.

 

You could even let it reduce mod slots, as long as the game function as it does now, where if mods somehow get into an item that doesn't have mod slots, it stays there until you remove it.  So if your item degrades you have to decide "Do I leave those mods, or do I lose the ability to have as many in it if I want to change them?"

I think the main detriment as seen by TFP about all the ideas where you need a new weapon frequently is that it would lead to a lot more mod swapping work than currently. We already access the mod menue quite often for all that moddable stuff in the game.

 

 

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4 hours ago, meganoth said:

I think the main detriment as seen by TFP about all the ideas where you need a new weapon frequently is that it would lead to a lot more mod swapping work than currently. We already access the mod menue quite often for all that moddable stuff in the game.

 

 

That is correct. Which is why mods should be permanent attachments and not swappable.... :behindsofa:

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21 hours ago, stample said:

Probably been suggested before, but what if repairing decreased QL by 1?  If they could find a way to keep mod slots, so you don't have to re-slot, but do get the requisite dmg/durability decreases for being lower QL, it would provide a good incentive to replace your gear periodically without killing you if durability ran out mid-Hordenight.  It might make the bonus durability from armor perks useful, too.

 

You could even let it reduce mod slots, as long as the game function as it does now, where if mods somehow get into an item that doesn't have mod slots, it stays there until you remove it.  So if your item degrades you have to decide "Do I leave those mods, or do I lose the ability to have as many in it if I want to change them?"

Was like that before. Repairing will decrease the level item, but in those times we got like 600 levels. Were the times of the "learn by doing".

But now the system is pretty different. I was a bit skeptical at first, but now I like it more.

 

And I prefer not degrade at repairing. I mean, as it now I do not have all equipment lvl 6, even after 120 days. Imagine if you can use it only a bit and then goes back to lvl 5. For that being reasonable, they need to let you craft lvl 6 things.

 

I would say, if it's not broken doesn't fix it. It's working fine now.

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37 minutes ago, Rince said:

Was like that before. Repairing will decrease the level item, but in those times we got like 600 levels. Were the times of the "learn by doing".

But now the system is pretty different. I was a bit skeptical at first, but now I like it more.

 

And I prefer not degrade at repairing. I mean, as it now I do not have all equipment lvl 6, even after 120 days. Imagine if you can use it only a bit and then goes back to lvl 5. For that being reasonable, they need to let you craft lvl 6 things.

 

I would say, if it's not broken doesn't fix it. It's working fine now.

This could be fixed by an upgrade system where for a certain amount of parts you could upgrade your items.

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4 hours ago, Solomon said:

This could be fixed by an upgrade system where for a certain amount of parts you could upgrade your items.

That would be similar to that what we had in A16 and before. Back then, you could combine items in the workbench to increase the quality.

 

 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, RipClaw said:

That would be similar to that what we had in A16 and before. Back then, you could combine items in the workbench to increase the quality.

It seems reasonable:

 

You broke your T6 AK->Repaired it so its now T5->You need to bring it to the trader with 50 Machine gun parts so he upgrades it back to T6.

 

I mentioned the trader because this way T6 still stays player uncraftable. Everything else stays as they are but you would need to upgrade them with approtiate amount of parts.

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On 10/29/2020 at 6:42 AM, Solomon said:

It seems reasonable:

 

You broke your T6 AK->Repaired it so its now T5->You need to bring it to the trader with 50 Machine gun parts so he upgrades it back to T6.

 

I mentioned the trader because this way T6 still stays player uncraftable. Everything else stays as they are but you would need to upgrade them with approtiate amount of parts.

That sounds like player craftable T6 with extra steps.

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On 10/30/2020 at 2:29 PM, Rince said:

That sounds like player craftable T6 with extra steps.

Only if you are able to upgrade any T5 into a T6 and not only the ones what degraded.

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