Wolves shouldn't act like zombies

[geengaween]

We already have zombie dogs, there's no reason for wolves to attack you on sight and behave like mindless monsters.

 

They should never try to break into your base, bears might try to do this but wolves would never do it. They should watch you from a distance and run away if you get too close. Maybe if you're badly injured, limping, and extremely weakened, they should attack in a group after following you at a distance for a while. If you reduce their HP they should run away again.

[pApA^LeGBa]

So you basically say we should get rid of them. Because what you want is wolves that are basically no threat at all.

[Danidas]

21 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

So you basically say we should get rid of them. Because what you want is wolves that are basically no threat at all.

No what he is saying is make them even bigger of a threat as they will keep their distance until your weak then attack in a group. Similar to nonbloodmoon vultures who ignore you until your health is below a certain point. Also wolves already retreat when damaged to heal up and attack again the same as coyotes.

 

Now also consider that this does not apply to the Dire Wolves as they are actually suppose to be undead zombie wolves. Which will become more evident when they get their HD rework.

[geengaween]

47 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

So you basically say we should get rid of them. Because what you want is wolves that are basically no threat at all.

No, I think wolves should act like wolves, that are only a threat under specific circumstances, such as when you're very low HP. Just like in real life. If they're going to act like zombies then there's no point in them existing as living animals, they may as well just be zombies. There's no reason for them to mindlessly attack your base, that isn't how opportunistic predators like wolves behave. The game already has zombie dogs.

 

Scenario: You're limping home with a backpack full of stuff, you've sprained your leg and are on 20% HP. You hear the howl of a wolf and see 3 or 4 of them following you at a distance. It's only a matter of time before they decide to rush you, and they're not easy to hit with ranged weapons. Get ready to defend yourself.

[outhous]

Maybe they're rabid??

[geengaween]

All of them? 😐

[Kyonshi]

25 minutes ago, geengaween said:

No, I think wolves should act like wolves, that are only a threat under specific circumstances, such as when you're very low HP. Just like in real life. If they're going to act like zombies then there's no point in them existing as living animals, they may as well just be zombies. There's no reason for them to mindlessly attack your base, that isn't how opportunistic predators like wolves behave. The game already has zombie dogs.

 

Scenario: You're limping home with a backpack full of stuff, you've sprained your leg and are on 20% HP. You hear the howl of a wolf and see 3 or 4 of them following you at a distance. It's only a matter of time before they decide to rush you, and they're not easy to hit with ranged weapons. Get ready to defend yourself.

Omg, you evoked a concept that's inspired by real life. Are you even aware of how outrageous you are right now? Never, ever, mention anything regarding what happens in the real world. This game is unrealistic and you will obide by this. Dont say you haven't been warned when they come and get you.

 

I'll take a risk myself and dare to say that i agree with your point of view on regular wolves. Should be the same for regular bears. But Dire Wolves and Zombie Bears should remain the same in terms of behavior.

[geengaween]

1 minute ago, Kyonshi said:

But Dire Wolves and Zombie Bears should remain the same in terms of behavior.

Yes, because they are zombies. It's not even about what's realistic, there's really no point in having wolves in the game at all if they're just going to act exactly the same as zombies. 7DTD isn't the only game that's guilty of this, pretty much every video game ever made has wolves as a generic enemy mob that attacks you on sight mindlessly. It's always broken my immersion and annoyed me a bit.

[Laz Man]

Its the apocalypse.  Food is scare.  I bet most wolves would attack people if they were starving.  Its not too much of a stretch.

 

Biome Vultures already have the behavior your talking about (wont attack you until wounded) so not sure there needs to be another animal with the same behavior.

 

As a side note wolves actually do run away when hurt and come back later.

[unholyjoe]

just be glad when something runs from you when hurt that it doesnt regain its health... that would make for a bad day.

[Tourist]

I've had wolves attack my door, attack my walls, die on my spikes because they keep running onto them instead of keeping their distance.  They absolutely act like zombies and it bugs me, A. because it doesn't make sense for them to behave like that, and B. because i hate killing dogs.

[Sjustus548]

The way I see it the wolves and bears most likely have been living off meals of whatever animals they can find but mostly zombie flesh.  Maybe the zombie flesh has messed with their minds and made them more aggressive.  The zombie virus has given the wolves and bears the same aggressiveness that forces zombies to attack you on sight and break down any and all obstacles to get to their next meal.  

[outhous]

3 hours ago, geengaween said:

All of them? 😐

Well, there is a zombie flu or something going around. Seems to have infected damn near the entire population of humans, who knows what it does to canines. 

[pApA^LeGBa]

3 hours ago, geengaween said:

No, I think wolves should act like wolves, that are only a threat under specific circumstances, such as when you're very low HP. Just like in real life. If they're going to act like zombies then there's no point in them existing as living animals, they may as well just be zombies. There's no reason for them to mindlessly attack your base, that isn't how opportunistic predators like wolves behave. The game already has zombie dogs.

 

Scenario: You're limping home with a backpack full of stuff, you've sprained your leg and are on 20% HP. You hear the howl of a wolf and see 3 or 4 of them following you at a distance. It's only a matter of time before they decide to rush you, and they're not easy to hit with ranged weapons. Get ready to defend yourself.

 

The point is, i hardly ever get in that situation, i don´t go far away from home the first few days and avoid beeing encumbered, i rather make two trips or use stereoids. And many people prefer to just die instead of limping home for hours. It´s a game and not a simulator.

 

And you can assume that they are all hungry. Wildlife is also reduced by the bombs so there isn´t a lot of prey, that´s why they attack on sight.

 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I don't mind them attacking on sight. I would expect a lot of wildlife to behave this way under this setting.
However, and although they have attempted to fix this, the sneak attacks from a pack of wolves without warning still happens from time to time. They are supposed to howl before attacking. Maybe they technically do each and every time, but maybe there is also some issue with distant sound.
 
What I would like to see with wolves, and probably dogs too, is that when they are chasing you they should randomly attempt to run beside you and cut you off. Maybe one or two of them from the pack should do this. Also randomly, one or two of them could try to attack from behind. When you turn to try to shoot/hit them, they should try to circle around you. Everything attacking you head on, making conga lines toward you every single time with every single land enemy gets old.

[BubbaJoe]

I've always just kind of assumed the non-zombie predators behaved this way because they were 1) starving or 2) infected but not yet "dead." 1 doesn't exactly explain them smashing themselves all over spikes, though I'm not exactly a wildlife biologist so I can't make any definitive statements there. 2 probably would, and is more open-ended as the precise nature and stages of the zombification process are still unknown in the 7D2D universe. All that said, I agree that wolves behaving differently than the dogs (more than just running away when injured) would be a cool thing, but I'm not super bothered by them as they are. I just see them as training wheels for the dire wolf, though sometimes the dire wolves seem to show up first anyways.

[Kyonshi]

I dont go with the argument that normal wolves or bears would attack on sight because they're starving. There's plenty of preys for them, running around : chickens, boars, rabbits, deers/stags. Given the situation where a huge part of the human population has been eradicated, there's less of us to interfere with predators like such and their search for sustenance, therefore allowing them easier access to it.

 

I also dont buy the idea that they would resort to eating zombified flesh, consequently infecting them and making them aggressive. I would find it more plausible for vultures since they literaly are scavengers. As far as i know, i dont recall wolves and bears enjoying rotten and tainted flesh. Now, that doesnt mean wolves/bears cant be infected in any way since we do have Dire Wolves and Zombie Bears. But it would be good to know what are the vectors of transmission of the virus and therefore, maybe have a visual, in-between normal and full-zombie state, that would explain normal-looking animal that are still overly aggressive. Perhaps having missing fur patches, foamy maws? But otherwise, normal, untainted animals should keep their natural behavior reminiscent of real-life.

[Demonoid74]

I would be happy if they just stopped animals running into spikes until they die...IF they did hit them once , they would run away and not dance around on them till they die...

Just that change would be good enough for me

[Sjustus548]

21 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

I dont go with the argument that normal wolves or bears would attack on sight because they're starving. There's plenty of preys for them, running around : chickens, boars, rabbits, deers/stags. Given the situation where a huge part of the human population has been eradicated, there's less of us to interfere with predators like such and their search for sustenance, therefore allowing them easier access to it.

 

I also dont buy the idea that they would resort to eating zombified flesh, consequently infecting them and making them aggressive. I would find it more plausible for vultures since they literaly are scavengers. As far as i know, i dont recall wolves and bears enjoying rotten and tainted flesh. Now, that doesnt mean wolves/bears cant be infected in any way since we do have Dire Wolves and Zombie Bears. But it would be good to know what are the vectors of transmission of the virus and therefore, maybe have a visual, in-between normal and full-zombie state, that would explain normal-looking animal that are still overly aggressive. Perhaps having missing fur patches, foamy maws? But otherwise, normal, untainted animals should keep their natural behavior reminiscent of real-life.

There isn't that much prey left for them to eat.  Most of the animals are pretty scarce now so I don't see why they wouldn't take to killing and eating zombies.  Real wolves and bears will eat carrion if they find it so I can assume the one's in game would do the same.  Heck humans have taken to eating rotten meat in the form of Hobo Stew.  You can watch as bears, wolves, and zombies attack each other when they get too close.  The animals may have learned that if they don't kill the zombies then they will be killed and eaten.  The wolves and bears also may not be able to tell the difference between an zombie and a non infected person.  They may just see us all as threats.  While fighting zombies it can be very easy for the infection to spread to the animal.  We haven't seen the effects of someone who has been infected but hasn't turned yet so increased aggression could be one of the forms.  It's hard to make any clear judgements on what an infected wolf or bear would do or what side effects would happen if they were infected with this strain of disease.  

[BubbaJoe]

34 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

I dont go with the argument that normal wolves or bears would attack on sight because they're starving. There's plenty of preys for them, running around : chickens, boars, rabbits, deers/stags.

I generally agree with this. I mean, this is all being really over-analyzed anyways for 7D2D, but you'd need to look at the spawning ratios here to determine if this is in fact accurate from the standpoint of population stability. There's also the whole ambiguity of whatever the "virus" (for lack of a more definitive term) does, but more on that below.

34 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Given the situation where a huge part of the human population has been eradicated, there's less of us to interfere with predators like such and their search for sustenance, therefore allowing them easier access to it.

This is a bit trickier since we don't know the actual impact of whatever happened. There is evidence of nuclear detonation in the game, not to mention enormous swaths of destroyed environments, radiated zones, etc. You could easily argue the opposite way, that despite the diminished human presence, there is also a greatly reduced number of wildlife and livable space for them, so that the humans who still exist are hunting them at increased rates. There also seems to have been a predatory population explosion in some areas (I'm looking at you mountain lions in the snow biome) that might be unsustainable and we just happened to nakies spawn in right around the time everything was going hangry.

34 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

I also dont buy the idea that they would resort to eating zombified flesh, consequently infecting them and making them aggressive. I would find it more plausible for vultures since they literaly are scavengers. As far as i know, i dont recall wolves and bears enjoying rotten and tainted flesh.

As far as I know you're correct about bears and wolves. From a cursory search they only eat rotten meat in small quantities or in dire circumstances. "Tainted" is a bit more ambiguous though. We don't really know what makes the zombies, zombies in the 7D2D world yet. So for all these predatory animals know some of the zombies might not give off any of the hallmark signs of "rot" that the animals are instinctively aware to avoid. Since a lot of these predators aren't generally hunting humans for consumption, we can presume they probably aren't specifically hunting the zombies for sustenance either. They might, however, eat incapacitated zombies because real-life bears and wolves will frequently eat the corpses of creatures they didn't specifically hunt and kill so long as they aren't excessively rotten. This gets to the point of how the virus is transmitted, if the not-zombified prey can be infected, the "virus" is airborne, is in the water, is in the sham, etc.

34 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Now, that doesnt mean wolves/bears cant be infected in any way since we do have Dire Wolves and Zombie Bears. But it would be good to know what are the vectors of transmission of the virus and therefore, maybe have a visual, in-between normal and full-zombie state, that would explain normal-looking animal that are still overly aggressive.

I think we'll have to wait and see what, if anything, TFP decide to offer as to the origin of the 7D2D world. My guess is stuff like this will be mostly left up to players to debate, but who knows, maybe we'll get something that definitively structures how the "virus" works. I agree more models would be cool, but I think you'd first have to decide if there was much point to have anything between a normal wolf and a dire wolf, and then weigh that against other production considerations.

34 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

But otherwise, normal, untainted animals should keep their natural behavior reminiscent of real-life.

We don't know if any of the animals are actually untainted or if they just appear to be so to our unknowing eyes, nor do we know just how much the 7D2D world has deviated from real-life. Makes "should" statements like this hard to quantify.

 

7 minutes ago, Demonoid74 said:

I would be happy if they just stopped animals running into spikes until they die...IF they did hit them once , they would run away and not dance around on them till they die...

Just that change would be good enough for me

All the blobs of text I wrote above aside, I'm definitely on board with this one for the "normal" predators as they currently exist, it also seems like it could realistically be implemented to how certain entities behave, but I'm no expert there.

[AtomicUs5000]

It would be pretty cool if when you encounter a normal predatory animal, and you face them while swinging a torch, it has a chance to make them run away. Just a little something to help out the first few days and making more use of the torch you get in a meaningful way.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@AtomicUs5000 Nice idea. The torch is usefull at start vs zombies. Take one or two swings at them and ignite them. Sure doesn´t work every time, but often enough for me to carry it on the tool belt.

[AtomicUs5000]

5 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@AtomicUs5000 Nice idea. The torch is usefull at start vs zombies. Take one or two swings at them and ignite them. Sure doesn´t work every time, but often enough for me to carry it on the tool belt.

I remember doing that in one of my first few games ever... but then they hit me and set me on fire. Not sure if that still happens alphas later, lol. I stopped doing it.
 
 

18 hours ago, Demonoid74 said:

I would be happy if they just stopped animals running into spikes until they die...IF they did hit them once , they would run away and not dance around on them till they die...

Just that change would be good enough for me

I second this for the normal animals.
However, I would miss the screams of rabbits in the desert that fail to turn around after hitting cacti.

[linewalker]

On 10/6/2020 at 11:21 AM, Laz Man said:

As a side note wolves actually do run away when hurt and come back later.

This gets me wrecked more often than anything.  They run off, I continue doing what I was doing and forget they come back.

[Laz Man]

3 hours ago, linewalker said:

This gets me wrecked more often than anything.  They run off, I continue doing what I was doing and forget they come back.

Me too, if anything, they might be gone alittle too long which lul's you into a false sense of security.  Which is a good/bad thing depending on who you ask LOL....