About Double clearing POIs and how to fix it

[mr.devolver]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

If the blocks have 80000 HPs there will still be people who insist on breaking them with a Q1 stone axe and will sit there for the three days it takes to do it and then complain here on the forum that TFP is forcing them to spend 3 days breaking into a locked reward box with no time to prepare for the next blood moon and rewards that are just not worth it....

You forgot those other players who will come here to complain about those sitting there for three days with Q1 stone axes getting advantage over them, you know more loot, more wasted time, not to mention how much iron/stone will they gather by smashing that 80000 HP block with that tiny Q1 stone axe for three days straight, that's surely a reason for Q1 stone axe nerfing!

1 minute ago, th3s0n1c said:

No, but I guess you're just gonna keep trying to be a smartass.

Blake's suggestion already fixes the problem we're both discussing just by tying the reset to the POI once the quest is selected at the trader.

Really? And what if someone starts looting the said POI before you get there to do the quest? LOL

[th3s0n1c]

2 minutes ago, mr.devolver said:

Really? And what if someone starts looting the said POI before you get there to do the quest? LOL

Quest fails, you go and grab another. You know.. like how it is in every game (and irl) when someone arrives first and gets what you wanted...?

[Kahrston]

12 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

Your 2 cents add LITERALLY nothing to the conversation. Everytime there's a discussion (a civilized one, btw) going on, two opposing sides presenting their arguments, there's a third side that doesnt care and some dude that shows up (thinking he's some sort of mediator) saying "why dont each side just mind their business and stop telling how each other should play?" - and you're not even the first person to bring this point in this thread.

We are not discussing which type of base is better.. or if zombies should be able to run or not. This isnt about game settings that actually decide how people play. I'll repeat:

Tts not about taking away freedom from other players' choice on how to play the game. Imo this mechanic is something that came out wrong, in the first place. And the only reason why we're arguing over it, is because it exists when (once again: imo) it shouldnt. When TFP came up with the "quest reset POI' mechanic, I believe they werent accounting for people doing a double run on it. Probably just thinking of renewing POIs already looted so the quests could take place there. Just like with most things they "fix" in the game because they didnt think it would act the way players are now using it in an exploitive way (eg: steep blocks, hatch elevators, maze bases, etc).

I'm trying to keep "realism" and "immersion breaking" out of the discussion, but resetting a POI that you just cleared (which, in itself, is stupid) - on intention of getting double the loot - is not a choice on how to play the game.. its a choice over abusing a mechanic - and those are very different things.

So much so that the Devs are actually pondering about ways to prevent sneaky rushing looting (hence the key to unlock lootroom idea) and it might even fix the POI reset matter as a side effect.

 

And I'd also like to add: what is even the point of the forum if we can't express our thoughts on mechanics in the game? On how we wish things would evolve to? In principle, we shouldnt discuss things because they might still be added in the future?

In principle, we shouldnt start threads other than for bug reports, questions and joking.... because discussing anything is pointless since you'll do you and I'll do me?

I understand your point. I just didn't agree with it. As to loot room idea, I think it's a good idea. There does need to be some fixes put in to help prevent nerd-poling up just to loot the POI and eliminate most of the danger of getting it. I just disagree with removing the quest reset right now until there is some better fix for the issue.

 

As an aside, I wouldn't be on a game forum if I didn't agree with people expressing their thoughts on the game. I have just seen a lot of people through the years discuss removing things from games that other people enjoy just because they don't personally like those things. The only way to see what the community feels is to have these discussions but I have always been a fan of developers adding more options to games as opposed to removing options.

[mr.devolver]

1 minute ago, th3s0n1c said:

Quest fails, you go and grab another. You know.. like how it is in every game (and irl) when someone arrives first and gets what you wanted...?

You know, I would actually like to see that happen at least for a week, just to see you guys run back and forth to reset the quest, just to have it failed before you get there. Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh, but this whole "fix" is rather absurd and it's ridiculous how much you guys seem to insist on how good it is when it's really not...

[Kahrston]

7 minutes ago, mr.devolver said:

You forgot those other players who will come here to complain about those sitting there for three days with Q1 stone axes getting advantage over them, you know more loot, more wasted time, not to mention how much iron/stone will they gather by smashing that 80000 HP block with that tiny Q1 stone axe for three days straight, that's surely a reason for Q1 stone axe nerfing!

Really? And what if someone starts looting the said POI before you get there to do the quest? LOL

My biggest issue with the trader resetting the POI when you pick the quest would be what kind of safeguards would be in place to prevent a base or horde base from being wiped?

[th3s0n1c]

Just now, Kahrston said:

My biggest issue with the trader resetting the POI when you pick the quest would be what kind of safeguards would be in place to prevent a base or horde base from being wiped?

LCB/Bedroll protection would act as preventing that POI from even being considered an option for quests. I think that was how it worked in A17.

I mean, I played multiplayer back then and had my base made out of a POI and never had it reset. And from what people told me back then, thats how it worked.

[mr.devolver]

Just now, Kahrston said:

My biggest issue with the trader resetting the POI when you pick the quest would be what kind of safeguards would be in place to prevent a base or horde base from being wiped?

You see this as an issue because you care about the possible negative consequences of such design, but there will always be others who just think their idea for a "fix" is the best one and don't care about how much more issues it would bring as long as it fixes the one issue they saw.

[mr.devolver]

14 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

LCB/Bedroll protection would act as preventing that POI from even being considered an option for quests. I think that was how it worked in A17.

I mean, I played multiplayer back then and had my base made out of a POI and never had it reset. And from what people told me back then, thats how it worked.

So if someone spends double the time going through the same POI twice, you consider that wrong and want devs to prevent that from happening, but at the same time, you wouldn't hesitate to take over the POI that could be used for quests by other players... It seems like your motives are anything but balanced and fair gameplay.

[Roland]

I'd be happy if the exlamation mark were swapped for a dude who was facing the POI from across the street so you would have to turn your back to it in order to face him and accept the quest. Then the reset would be hidden from view. Those two things are really my only issues. I think trying to argue for a fix or prevention method to the double-dipping is futile because when it comes down to it, right or wrong, exploit or fair, Madmole likes it and does it whenever it suits him. He has already said (directly to me no less as referenced in the OP of this thread) that there is nothing wrong with clearing the same POI twice if you want to do that and it isn't going to be removed.

 

I've moved on from that issue and now only care about the floating orange exclamation point and personally witnessing the reset. Fix those two issues and I think the quest rally point/ reset functions are ready for gold. 

[mr.devolver]

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'd be happy if the exlamation mark were swapped for a dude who was facing the POI from across the street so you would have to turn your back to it in order to face him and accept the quest. Then the reset would be hidden from view. Those two things are really my only issues. I think trying to argue for a fix or prevention method to the double-dipping is futile because when it comes down to it, right or wrong, exploit or fair, Madmole likes it and does it whenever it suits him. He has already said (directly to me no less as referenced in the OP of this thread) that there is nothing wrong with clearing the same POI twice if you want to do that and it isn't going to be removed.

 

I've moved on from that issue and now only care about the floating orange exclamation point and personally witnessing the reset. Fix those two issues and I think the quest rally point/ reset functions are ready for gold. 

I wish it was more immersive than it is, but I'm pretty sure it won't be that easy, so a better solution than what we have right now won't come any time soon. Talking to an NPC near the POI to start the quest would probably be a very cool way, but if it was the only way the quests would start, it would soon become boring just as much as it can be with the exclamation marks.

[Kyonshi]

I dunno if its a bug/glitch or whatnot, but i just started a Clear/Retrieve mission in a POI i raided before and the loot didnt reset but all Zs did. They're all back, sleepers, closet Zs. But all the trash, cupboards or any other containers are either empty or left with the stuff i didnt pick last time.

Like i said, i just started playing and this happened. Was this being some kind of hotfix to prevent double-clearing with the last update? Probably!

 

Edit: Ok this is weird. The trash on the ground mostly remained empty but some cupboards reset and some others didnt. One bathroom had the sink still empty but the mirror cabinet and the toilet reset. And i remember clearing all of them. I dont get it lol.

 

Edit 2: I didnt download latest experimental (thought it would do so automatically)... So yeah, im stupid lol. I was starting to see quite @%$#ed up things and my game crashed. Found out why... Alright guys, keep walking, nothing to see here. 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, DaChibii said:

I'm aware of that. That was just addendum to the original idea of repeatable POIs based on a timer (similar to how Air Drops function) but POI as a challenge/puzzle instead of just loot.

I was suggesting an alternative option in addition to Animal Tracker that provides the same end goal but a different path to it, so other playstyles can enjoy instead of catering to just one.

The playstyle of shooting fish in a barrel? 😄. It is just that a bear that you know will be in a specific cave is an easy victim. Build a barricade (plus spike traps if desired) so he can't get out of the cave, kite him and shoot or even melee him while he is trying to remove the barricade. Or build a small permanent stone/concrete tower and whenever a new bear spawns, shoot at it from the tower. 

 

[th3s0n1c]

1 hour ago, mr.devolver said:

So if someone spends double the time going through the same POI twice, you consider that wrong and want devs to prevent that from happening, but at the same time, you wouldn't hesitate to take over the POI that could be used for quests by other players... It seems like your motives are anything but balanced and fair gameplay.

 

That's up to the admins of the server to decide if that's ok or not.

Just like I played in a server where that was allowed, I also played in a server where it was openly advised not to build on POI's as they might get reset from quests. So players would "build there at their own risk".

But the key difference here is: claiming a POI as your own is something that people do quite often, but most importantly: it doesnt exploit a mechanic in the game. Very different from double resetting a POI, dont even try to pretend its the same.

 

Looking it up online, if this is accurate... in fact, it seems thats how it already works, anyways. (Unless it's changed from A19)

 

[Roland]

1 hour ago, mr.devolver said:

it would soon become boring just as much as it can be with the exclamation marks

We are definitely operating on different wavelengths md....  

[DaChibii]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

The playstyle of shooting fish in a barrel? 😄. It is just that a bear that you know will be in a specific cave is an easy victim. Build a barricade (plus spike traps if desired) so he can't get out of the cave, kite him and shoot or even melee him while he is trying to remove the barricade. Or build a small permanent stone/concrete tower and whenever a new bear spawns, shoot at it from the tower. 

 

Except we all ready have this in POI form: The Bear Den. The only difference is I'm asking for wilderness POIs (as part of my original repeatable non-Quest POIs idea). And people already do this in the real world with bait and blinds.

Although, given the how this suggestion has drifted the OT... I might as well make a post the Pimp Dreams forum.

[Tehnomaag]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

I'd be happy if the exlamation mark were swapped for a dude who was facing the POI from across the street so you would have to turn your back to it in order to face him and accept the quest. Then the reset would be hidden from view. Those two things are really my only issues. I think trying to argue for a fix or prevention method to the double-dipping is futile because when it comes down to it, right or wrong, exploit or fair, Madmole likes it and does it whenever it suits him. He has already said (directly to me no less as referenced in the OP of this thread) that there is nothing wrong with clearing the same POI twice if you want to do that and it isn't going to be removed.

 

I've moved on from that issue and now only care about the floating orange exclamation point and personally witnessing the reset. Fix those two issues and I think the quest rally point/ reset functions are ready for gold. 

Why overcomplicate things by trying to do something algorithmically which every player, if he/she is so inclined, is perfectly capable of doing on his/her own?

 

I mean, nothing, as far as I'm aware, prevent players from positioning themselves so that their back is towards the POI when starting the quest at ! mark. 

[Kalen]

6 hours ago, th3s0n1c said:

But the key difference here is: claiming a POI as your own is something that people do quite often, but most importantly: it doesnt exploit a mechanic in the game. Very different from double resetting a POI, dont even try to pretend its the same.

 

There's that exploit word again.... I'm sure you just meant it as a synonym for "use".   

[Rince]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

I'd be happy if the exlamation mark were swapped for a dude who was facing the POI from across the street so you would have to turn your back to it in order to face him and accept the quest. Then the reset would be hidden from view. Those two things are really my only issues. I think trying to argue for a fix or prevention method to the double-dipping is futile because when it comes down to it, right or wrong, exploit or fair, Madmole likes it and does it whenever it suits him. He has already said (directly to me no less as referenced in the OP of this thread) that there is nothing wrong with clearing the same POI twice if you want to do that and it isn't going to be removed.

 

I've moved on from that issue and now only care about the floating orange exclamation point and personally witnessing the reset. Fix those two issues and I think the quest rally point/ reset functions are ready for gold. 

Maybe a guy working for White River, that tell you how the situation went wrong. And maybe adding a little cinematic-like pan of the POI full of zombies or something like that?

Yeah, if you saw the POI before doing that, it's a bit weird, but that's what suspension of Disbelief is for!

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

I'd be happy if the exlamation mark were swapped for a dude who was facing the POI from across the street so you would have to turn your back to it in order to face him and accept the quest. Then the reset would be hidden from view. Those two things are really my only issues. I think trying to argue for a fix or prevention method to the double-dipping is futile because when it comes down to it, right or wrong, exploit or fair, Madmole likes it and does it whenever it suits him. He has already said (directly to me no less as referenced in the OP of this thread) that there is nothing wrong with clearing the same POI twice if you want to do that and it isn't going to be removed.

 

I've moved on from that issue and now only care about the floating orange exclamation point and personally witnessing the reset. Fix those two issues and I think the quest rally point/ reset functions are ready for gold. 

 

The NPC is an excellent solution for 1.5 of the 2 problems. It won't work with hiding the reset on co-op MP, only one player will have to face the NPC.

 

4 hours ago, DaChibii said:

Except we all ready have this in POI form: The Bear Den. The only difference is I'm asking for wilderness POIs (as part of my original repeatable non-Quest POIs idea). And people already do this in the real world with bait and blinds.

Although, given the how this suggestion has drifted the OT... I might as well make a post the Pimp Dreams forum.

 

Bear Den is one of 500+ pois that the trader has to offer you to reset it, you were talking about a regularily reseting cave, similar to the supply plane. In the "real" world you have to improvise available structures or build new ones and if the bear sees you first, there is no time for preparation. Not the same.

 

 

[mr.devolver]

10 hours ago, th3s0n1c said:

 

That's up to the admins of the server to decide if that's ok or not.

Just like I played in a server where that was allowed, I also played in a server where it was openly advised not to build on POI's as they might get reset from quests. So players would "build there at their own risk".

But the key difference here is: claiming a POI as your own is something that people do quite often, but most importantly: it doesnt exploit a mechanic in the game. Very different from double resetting a POI, dont even try to pretend its the same.

 

Looking it up online, if this is accurate... in fact, it seems thats how it already works, anyways. (Unless it's changed from A19)

 

If there was such thing as "double resetting the POI", that could be considered an exploit, but there's no such thing.

10 hours ago, Roland said:

We are definitely operating on different wavelengths md....  

Would you please elaborate? Or was it just that you wouldn't find it boring soon? Well, I assumed that your problem with exclamation marks is partially that it's not as immersive as it could be, plus it's repetitive. Maybe I didn't catch the meaning correctly, but you didn't really explain why exactly it is that you don't like exclamation marks beyond the simple fact that with the current system you see the POI reset which breaks immersion.

[Roland]

5 hours ago, Tehnomaag said:

Why overcomplicate things by trying to do something algorithmically which every player, if he/she is so inclined, is perfectly capable of doing on his/her own?

 

I mean, nothing, as far as I'm aware, prevent players from positioning themselves so that their back is towards the POI when starting the quest at ! mark. 

And I do, however, that is the lesser problem for my preference. The more important issue is the appearance of a floating exclamation point. 
 

Thanks to the trader they already have dialogue trees coded with an NPC. They just need to place an NPC across the street instead of a punctuation mark in the yard, setup the dialogue tree, and then have the trader run off and despawn once line of sight is broken. It’s definitely not a priority and not a light task but a much better look to make the game appear more finished. The interjection garnish looks like a placeholder more than a polished game element in my opinion. 

[th3s0n1c]

5 hours ago, Kalen said:

There's that exploit word again.... I'm sure you just meant it as a synonym for "use".   

I said what I said.

[Kalen]

1 minute ago, th3s0n1c said:

I said what I said.

Well, then you're wrong.   Not sure how it can be an exploit when it works exactly as designed.   A feature that one of the game founders regularly uses, by his own admission.   So yeah, not an exploit.  

[Rince]

41 minutes ago, Roland said:

And I do, however, that is the lesser problem for my preference. The more important issue is the appearance of a floating exclamation point. 
 

Thanks to the trader they already have dialogue trees coded with an NPC. They just need to place an NPC across the street instead of a punctuation mark in the yard, setup the dialogue tree, and then have the trader run off and despawn once line of sight is broken. It’s definitely not a priority and not a light task but a much better look to make the game appear more finished. The interjection garnish looks like a placeholder more than a polished game element in my opinion. 

I imagine that they would need to make the NPC invencible, so they don't get killed before starting the quest.

 

...

 

I can see players using somehow this to defeat the Blood Moon horde. 😄

[mr.devolver]

1 hour ago, Rince said:

I imagine that they would need to make the NPC invencible, so they don't get killed before starting the quest.

 

...

 

I can see players using somehow this to defeat the Blood Moon horde. 😄

 

I believe NPCs are invincible by default already, so there would be no change for them. As for the horde night concern, assuming you're talking about the possible intention of players to use that poor NPC guy as a decoy for zombies, that could be easily fixed simply by excluding him from the zombie's target list. Then again, that alone would be pretty immersion breaking too...