Shared Experience

[Sydious]

Discussion on what XP should be shared.

[Sjustus548]

I like that xp from kills is shared.  I currently have more zombie kills than the other three group members combined so if it wasn't shared I would be a lot more advanced.  I think if xp from kills is shared then all xp should be shared as well.  Doesn't make sense that the other actions are not shared.  Also if a player specs in to Int and starts getting 50% xp from Electric Trap kills I think that should be shared.   

[Boidster]

I assume by "all XP" you mean kills no matter the distance? Or are you talking about like chopping down a tree or upgrading a block should share XP?

 

I voted "current form is fine" because I'm on board with the idea that we ought to be close enough to reasonably think we're "cooperating" (though still plenty of times I just hoover up free XP while he's off killing zombies and I'm tinkering around base). I don't think I'd want crafting/mining/misc XP to be shared. But maybe I could be convinced. I've never felt XP was hard to come by in this game, especially when playing co-op, so that might be part of my skepticism.

[Sydious]

5 minutes ago, Boidster said:

I assume by "all XP" you mean kills no matter the distance? Or are you talking about like chopping down a tree or upgrading a block should share XP?

 

I voted "current form is fine" because I'm on board with the idea that we ought to be close enough to reasonably think we're "cooperating" (though still plenty of times I just hoover up free XP while he's off killing zombies and I'm tinkering around base). I don't think I'd want crafting/mining/misc XP to be shared. But maybe I could be convinced. I've never felt XP was hard to come by in this game, especially when playing co-op, so that might be part of my skepticism.

I mean ANYTHING that gives players experience, but since the range of sharable XP already has the ability to be changed I went with simple poll.  I still believe that all should be shared though.  I play mostly coop and we all end up getting so far apart at some point that it gets a bit frustrating for all of us.

[Kalen]

I think its fine as is.... zombie kill xp is shared because if 2 people are beating on a zombie only one gets the kill.   If the xp wasn't shared that would be unfair to the person that didn't get the killing blow since both contributed to the kill.   Other forms of xp are pretty much solo events (though I guess you could have 2 people chopping down a tree) so I have no problem with those not being shared.

[Sydious]

1 minute ago, Kalen said:

I think its fine as is.... zombie kill xp is shared because if 2 people are beating on a zombie only one gets the kill.   If the xp wasn't shared that would be unfair to the person that didn't get the killing blow since both contributed to the kill.   Other forms of xp are pretty much solo events (though I guess you could have 2 people chopping down a tree) so I have no problem with those not being shared.

So if I'm the builder in the group and I put down electric post for horde night, that XP shouldn't be shared?  

[Kalen]

3 minutes ago, Sydious said:

So if I'm the builder in the group and I put down electric post for horde night, that XP shouldn't be shared?  

In my opinion, no.

[Sjustus548]

1 minute ago, Kalen said:

I think its fine as is.... zombie kill xp is shared because if 2 people are beating on a zombie only one gets the kill.   If the xp wasn't shared that would be unfair to the person that didn't get the killing blow since both contributed to the kill.   Other forms of xp are pretty much solo events (though I guess you could have 2 people chopping down a tree) so I have no problem with those not being shared.

I think the game would have to have a way of calculating who participated in earning that xp for your way.  Currently one person can be afk in the base while another group member is fighting off a wandering horde.  The afked player will still get xp even though they didn't participate in combat.  Either all xp should be shared or really none of it.  They could change it up to where combat xp is gained by doing damage instead of by killing the zombie, kind of how mining and other activities are.   You get xp for every hit and a chunk of xp for the last hit.  

[Kalen]

1 minute ago, Sjustus548 said:

I think the game would have to have a way of calculating who participated in earning that xp for your way.

Well it's not my way.... its the way the game currently works.

 

Sure, its not perfect, like you said someone can get xp for doing nothing while someone else is off killing (as long as they're close enough).  Maybe at some point TFP will add checks for contribution to a kill, but that seems like an overcomplication.  Keep it simple.

 

Now if they changed it to sharing all forms of xp, I honestly wouldn't care... that would also be simple.   I just think the current system is fine as is.

[Boidster]

1 hour ago, Sydious said:

So if I'm the builder in the group and I put down electric post for horde night, that XP shouldn't be shared?

For putting down the block? Not IMO. For kill XP earned while party members are in range? Sure I could see that.

 

The current system is just shorthand for "hey you were close enough to reasonably have cooperated on the kill". Yeah, the game isn't tracking bullets or % damage per player or anything sophisticated, but it's good enough to be reasonable IMO. Beyond a certain distance it's harder to claim that what I'm doing is really co-op with what you're doing, regarding the killing of zombies.

 

It's fair to ask, well, aren't we reasonably close enough to have "cooperated" on upgrading these blocks to cement or digging up that ore, even though only one of us actually did the upgrading/digging? <shrug> I guess I wouldn't care, though IMO there's plenty of XP flowing around in my co-op game so I don't feel a need for more, really.

[DaChibii]

I think it should be almost all actions should be shared. Or at list a toggle list of actions and let the player/host decide which actions should be shared XP.
I also think there should be an option to have the shared XP in ratio to the distance of the action. So the closer to the target the more XP a player would get up to the 100%.
 

Because it's more than just if a player is participating because there is an economy as well (a finite number of loot XP chances depending on settings). As well upgrading blocks is still one of the best forms of XP, so a builder can easily out level the rest (especially if the builder is the merchant). Trying to find to keep a co-op group within a reasonable range becomes a chore after awhile.

[Boidster]

2 minutes ago, DaChibii said:

Because it's more than just if a player is participating because there is an economy as well (a finite number of loot XP chances depending on settings). As well upgrading blocks is still one of the best forms of XP, so a builder can easily out level the rest (especially if the builder is the merchant). Trying to find to keep a co-op group within a reasonable range becomes a chore after awhile.

This is a very reasonable argument. I am now making this face.

[Kalen]

10 minutes ago, DaChibii said:

Because it's more than just if a player is participating because there is an economy as well (a finite number of loot XP chances depending on settings). As well upgrading blocks is still one of the best forms of XP, so a builder can easily out level the rest (especially if the builder is the merchant). Trying to find to keep a co-op group within a reasonable range becomes a chore after awhile.

Zombie kill xp is shared because, presumably, everyone in close proximity is engaged in killing zombies.   Obviously, thats not always the case, but the game assumes it for simplicity.

 

If one player is upgrading blocks, I don't see why everyone near him should also get xp.   If they're in the same area, shouldn't they also be placing and upgrading blocks... removing the need for sharing the xp?   In fact, if the xp was shared and 3 people were building, they'd be getting 3 times the normal xp which just makes building an even more superior way of grinding xp.  That is not a good thing, IMO.

[Sydious]

8 minutes ago, Kalen said:

 In fact, if the xp was shared and 3 people were building, they'd be getting 3 times the normal xp which just makes building an even more superior way of grinding xp.  That is not a good thing, IMO.

Blocks can only be upgraded once per upgrade level.  Only the player doing that will get the XP.  Not each player can do it so no it is not fact.  In fact, it is the opposite of fact.  Nothing would be tripled, just shared among group.  Same goes for mining, harvesting, etc...

[Kalen]

4 minutes ago, Sydious said:

Blocks can only be upgraded once per upgrade level.  Only the player doing that will get the XP.  Not each player can do it so no it is not fact.  In fact, it is the opposite of fact.  Nothing would be tripled, just shared among group.  Same goes for mining, harvesting, etc...

Um, I was responding to someone claiming that upgrading block xp should be shared.   I just pointed out that if 3 people were upgrading 3 separate blocks with that xp shared, they'd be getting xp 3 times as fast... effectively 3 times the xp.   That is a fact.

[Sydious]

@Kalen Yes everyone would be getting XP for each block no matter whom was doing the upgrade.  That is not 3 times the XP.  I think we are only disagreeing on symatics here but none the less here is another example.

 

My wife and I are playing our game.  Wandering horde shows up, we show them who is boss.  All XP is shared from kills no matter if she kills 1 and I kill 10 or the other way around.  

If we are driving to a quest in our 4x4 and we see a wolf.  I hop out and kill it and she just stays in 4x4 she gets same XP.  I harvest it, she gets nothing for XP.

Regardless as it sits now nothing is 3 times the XP.  Its just THAT XP but shared among the group

[Kalen]

Maybe I'm not explaining it well.   If three people upgrade 3 blocks currently, each person would get 1 blocks worth of xp.   If the xp was shared, however, each player would get 3 blocks worth of xp*.   Since building is already one of the better ways of getting xp, this seems like it would be too much.

 

*Its been a while since I played multiplayer.... but yeah, its not really 3 times the xp.   But its also not just the regular amount of xp split among the group members.  You earn more xp in a group than you would doing the same activities solo.  Now if it's changed and it really is the same xp as solo, but split among the team then I apologize.

[Sydious]

I figured we were probably just on different page with semantics.  But yes I do agree with you there that the XP would probably need to be adjusted for sharing of all XP.  It just doesn't make sense to me if I hop out the vehicle and kill a rabbit the xp is shared but if I hop out and chop a tree it isn't. 

[Boidster]

I think it's like 80%-ish of normal zombie XP that each player gets, at least in co-op. That is, if a zombie would net me 400 XP when solo (or far away from my party), then I get like 320 XP when he's around and he also gets 320 XP. So not quite 2x, but definitely not the original 400 XP split evenly.

[katarynna]

It is fairly easy to stay close in levels in small group coop if you try to, unless you are completely opposed to helping with upgrading blocks.

 

When playing with my son, we just check levels when there are blocks that need upgrading. Whoever is lower level does the upgrading. Whoever is handling building that playthrough places the frames and such, but the lower level does the upgrading, especially concrete and steel.

 

I actually enjoy it that way. It encourages more cooperation and teamwork.

 

 

[JCrook1028]

I'm on the none side of things myself. Want xp? Do something that earns it. As it stands now the system is broken. Example with sample numbers: If one person kills a z he gets 400 xp. If four people are there they each get 250.... making the z worth 1000 rather than 400. Now if the original 400 xp were what is split and shared I would be more in line with the system. As it is now tho? Not a fan, at all.

[music snob]

I think all roles/tasks should be more balanced to compensated for XP deficiency for some specialisations. A cook has to upgrade blocks to get XP in the game currently as an example. Which makes no sense. It might require a ton of work to balance, but there should be equal opportunity for all specialist to progress in levels just doing their own specialist jobs.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Everyone has the opportunity to get XP. And if you have someone in the group who does all the things that give you no XP all day i would recommend that person to find another group to play with tbh.

 

It´s a matter of splitting roles. Every member of the group should have a task/specialization that doesn´t earn you XP. There is actually no need for more XP sharing in this game. Don´t blame the game if your buddies let you do the the stuff you can´t get XP for.

 

@music snob My m8 who cooks for us does this only every time i harvest our garden so like 3 times a week and that doesn´t really take long. Basically every role in the group can spend 3 points in master chef and be the cook without loosing too much time.

[music snob]

30 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Everyone has the opportunity to get XP. And if you have someone in the group who does all the things that give you no XP all day i would recommend that person to find another group to play with tbh.

 

It´s a matter of splitting roles. Every member of the group should have a task/specialization that doesn´t earn you XP. There is actually no need for more XP sharing in this game. Don´t blame the game if your buddies let you do the the stuff you can´t get XP for.

 

@music snob My m8 who cooks for us does this only every time i harvest our garden so like 3 times a week and that doesn´t really take long. Basically every role in the group can spend 3 points in master chef and be the cook without loosing too much time.

I am obviously coming from an idealistic expectation from the game with more emphasis on roleplay. i.e. blacksmith makes tools/weapons - farmer plants and harvests - cook cooks - miner mines, etc. These roles can be spilt where each person can take on two or three of the total roles if in a small party, and that's where the disparity show up, where XP is only awarded to certain acts in the game which is counter to a roleplay philosophy. To reiterate; my expectation is one of delineation idealism rather than design pragmatism so I will acknowledge that I want the game to be something it isn't currently... but my hope is that it could be one someday.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@music snob Well not gonna happen i guess. This isn´t a pure RPG. It´s a genre mix. You will not have the full experience of any genre included in this game. But you can always hope for someone to make a mod.