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ungkor

Give zombies different heights

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It would add an interesting set of base builds if zombies had different heights.  Say cops and demos were 3 units high, and other mobs were 2 units high.   You could build a base that "filtered" mobs by height.  

 

Send the 2 unit high mobs towards killing tunnel X, and drop the 3 unit high mobs into explosive pit Y, for instance. 

 

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That would be great but from what I've heard the pathing does not work for zombies that are bigger than 2 blocks.
That was also the reason why the Behemoth was cut.
 

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6 hours ago, Boidster said:

Where are all the babby zombies?

 we definitely need babies from the forest

12 hours ago, ungkor said:

It would add an interesting set of base builds if zombies had different heights.  Say cops and demos were 3 units high, and other mobs were 2 units high.   You could build a base that "filtered" mobs by height.  

 

Send the 2 unit high mobs towards killing tunnel X, and drop the 3 unit high mobs into explosive pit Y, for instance. 

 

hmm you actually can do this there is actually lot of weird stuff apart of heigh difference ..  spiders  or crawlers still need 2 block doorway :D

maybe check vedui  .. he experimented with zombie heigh in past ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK2W6hXAn3k

 

from what i rememver he actually managed to build base that split demolishers and send them on separate corridor

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Just my opinions...

I've seen some overhaul mods with "babies" forgot which it was (like literal crawling babies).  They were very fun. I've also sen ( Darkness Falls?) where some version they had kids.

Also: I've messed with zed heights and he's what I've found:

- Making zeds just a little "too tall" can get them trapped in buildings because they cannot fit out the door.  And "a little bit" is not much, still "realistic" looking.  Like 6 inches too tall, people height wise is as close as you might get before they get too tall.  And when they're bigger than that they look "too big" visually. like cartoony.

- Making zeds "smaller" (like 1/2 or even 3/4 size) looks "wrong" with a LOT of them.  they don't look like kids, they look like mini versions of old people.  It looks wrong and cheap.  The only one that I could make smaller and looked ok was the legless crawler.  But even "baby sized: he looked bad.  like a tiny adult. Making the nurse 3/4 size does not make her look like she's 21, she looks like someone badly made a 30 year old person.

 

Its a hard line to hit, but the "best" effect (where the heads can be mostly at different heights) does work kinda ok if you can manage to do it.  But nothing that can make them "filterable" for a base building mechanic, as a whole.

 

Anyway: Yeah, we need more "baby" and "young people" zeds that are skinned to look their age (with custom walks!) would be cool and if they could pass under 1 block it would change a lot of stuff.  I think the crawler can do it? or at least crawl under the electric fence.

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Yes, if we can't have baby/kid zombies....give us midgets to play whack a mole on. 

I see some of these comments getting cut/deleted. It seems "taboo" to talk of zombie kids or babies for some reason.

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The topic child- / baby zombies has been discussed several times. In short, the FunPimps will never do it because they risk that their game will be banned in several countries.
It is simply not worth it.
 

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18 hours ago, doughphunghus said:

Just my opinions...

I've seen some overhaul mods with "babies" forgot which it was (like literal crawling babies).  They were very fun. I've also sen ( Darkness Falls?) where some version they had kids.

yeah but  darkness falls is really bad mod if you ask me ;) its  not something you gonna plat just  for babies :D

Quote

Also: I've messed with zed heights and he's what I've found:

- Making zeds just a little "too tall" can get them trapped in buildings because they cannot fit out the door.

well  honestlyu that isnt issue if you make zombgie that spawn just outside ..... or during blood moon

 

bears cant fit in doors (they get stuck and suffer from epilepsy till they glitch to other side)

demolishers spawn only during blood moons ...  or atleast i never met single one in poi  / outside even at  500+- GS

 actually demolishers could be bigger than now .. thet can already be filtered out so no change here but people would notice them better

Quote

Anyway: Yeah, we need more "baby" and "young people" zeds that are skinned to look their age (with custom walks!) would be cool and if they could pass under 1 block it would change a lot of stuff.  I think the crawler can do it? or at least crawl under the electric fence.

 its bit ridiculous but crawlers/spiders need like 1.75  block high entrance same as most zombies .. only dogs  can pass  1 block and demolishers ....need full  2

 not  sure about birds

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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I ran across some post talking about if they would ever add zombie kids to the game and basically the answer is “no”. Of course, that’s vanilla and not

modders so it would probably be safe to assume the only way you’re

going to get zeds that are big/small enough to have real height filtering abilities is if TFP actually makes some tinier adults, implements new walk types (zeds doing the limbo .... zeds doing the worm? ;) ), or makes some new mechanics where they can squeeze through a single block (like put their arms in and pull themselves through, etc). Maybe another option is more animals that are small but IMHOthat doesn’t have the same feel as zeds trying to get you at all different angles. 
 

all the discussions about “shooting child zeds in a video game”  turn into “shooting children” and I guess it’s a visceral “cross the line” sort of thing in a lot of peoples heads.  And apparently there are laws in countries against stuff like this.  
 

also: I don’t know how you make zeds only spawn outside.  I am taking this to mean: it doesn’t matter when you’re defending your base, as they spawn outside of it.  But during normal looting POI gameplay it’s kinda cheesy when zeds get trapped in doorways. Then again, they may not be super smart.  A good “fall down if you hit your head and crawl a block forward” zed mechanic might be cool.  I think it would also be cool if they could pile up many blocks high, or crawl through 1 block holes that are not ground level, as long as they are not too wide (like maybe skinny adult zeds could do a shimmy).  I do agree about the crawlers: I think the crawlers should be able to crawl through 1 block high.

Edited by doughphunghus (see edit history)

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14 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The topic child- / baby zombies has been discussed several times. In short, the FunPimps will never do it because they risk that their game will be banned in several countries.
It is simply not worth it.
 

Unfun Wimps.
lol, jk. I don't blame them. 
I thought code was added to give them very slight size differences? I never really paid attention to them, but I thought I read that at some point.

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On 9/25/2020 at 10:00 PM, doughphunghus said:

going to get zeds that are big/small enough to have real height filtering abilities is if TFP actually makes some tinier adults, implements new walk types (zeds doing the limbo .... zeds doing the worm? ;) ), or makes some new mechanics where they can squeeze through a single block (like put their arms in and pull themselves through, etc). Maybe another option is more animals that are small but IMHOthat doesn’t have the same feel as zeds trying to get you at all different angles. 

 

also: I don’t know how you make zeds only spawn outside.  I am taking this to mean: it doesn’t matter when you’re defending your base, as they spawn outside of it.  But during normal looting POI gameplay it’s kinda cheesy when zeds get trapped in doorways. Then again, they may not be super smart.  A good “fall down if you hit your head and crawl a block forward” zed mechanic might be cool.  I think it would also be cool if they could pile up many blocks high, or crawl through 1 block holes that are not ground level, as long as they are not too wide (like maybe skinny adult zeds could do a shimmy).  I do agree about the crawlers: I think the crawlers should be able to crawl through 1 block high.

well some zombies like lumberjacks spawn only outside never in poi .. so its definitely posible (i never encountered  stripper inside poi except boobie trap as well )

 

for heigh .. nah its not imlemented (or are devs lazy to bother with old zombies)

 only snake /dog can go through  1 block hole crawlers and spiders require standard 2x1 entrance as any other zombie

can understand spider tho ...  if you cripple his leg he will start limping on  2 like normal zombie changing size of existing zombie would be more complicated

 

we have many blocks that block only small part of entrance .... but most zombies have exactly same size

demolisher will be blocked by even tiny obstruction in  2x1  but apart of that ..after short experiment in a19...  lumberjack/cheerleader/fat mom/biker  ... require all same space to fit in

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2 hours ago, alanea said:

well some zombies like lumberjacks spawn only outside never in poi .. so its definitely posible (i never encountered  stripper inside poi

Oddly enough I just ran into a stripper in my latest video in Vick's pawnshop in A19.1!!! So stripper AND party girl are in the game at the same time?

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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

Oddly enough I just ran into a stripper in my latest video in Vick's pawnshop in A19.1!!! So stripper AND party girl are in the game at the same time?

Modded?   I've looked through the xml, and from what I can see the old stripper model isn't used at all

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On 9/23/2020 at 11:52 AM, ungkor said:

It would add an interesting set of base builds if zombies had different heights.  Say cops and demos were 3 units high, and other mobs were 2 units high.   You could build a base that "filtered" mobs by height.  

 

Send the 2 unit high mobs towards killing tunnel X, and drop the 3 unit high mobs into explosive pit Y, for instance. 

 

They already have different models, so having 3m high zombie would be just weird, in my opinion. 

 

Besides, they should be able to climb anyway. Maybe some day they will. After all they learned to swim in a19. 

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16 minutes ago, Tehnomaag said:

Besides, they should be able to climb anyway. Maybe some day they will. After all they learned to swim in a19. 

The spider zombie used to climb but this was changed to jumps in A17.

 

From what I've heard there were problems with the pathing when the zombies climbed up the walls.

Also this type of zombie was easy to protect yourself from this type of zombie by putting frames or iron bars on the outside of the wall. A jumping spider is much more of a thread and also much harder to hit.

 

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1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

The spider zombie used to climb but this was changed to jumps in A17.

 

From what I've heard there were problems with the pathing when the zombies climbed up the walls.

Also this type of zombie was easy to protect yourself from this type of zombie by putting frames or iron bars on the outside of the wall. A jumping spider is much more of a thread and also much harder to hit.

 

Oh I'm sure that a player who wants can always "cheese" the NPC's by exploiting their predictability or specific algorithmic weaknesses, be it then pathfinding, aggression algorithm or threat assesment algorithms. 

 

I just think it would be cool and somewhat scary, if a zombie dog or, say, zombie snow tiger would be coming at you along the wall or roof Alien-style. Plus ofc pile of zombies slowly climbing over a wall has certain cinematic effects (not counting the current staking on top of each other really as climbing). 

 

I'm pretty sure a good pathfinding algorithm that is computationally easy enough to be handed out to bunch of zombies in this game is a very tough nut to crack and that if the devs would have a good solution in this regard they would be pretty happy to implement it. Jumping is, probably, computationally much easier, than choosing a good path horizontally and vertically to reach a player. 

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2 minutes ago, Tehnomaag said:

I'm pretty sure a good pathfinding algorithm that is computationally easy enough to be handed out to bunch of zombies in this game is a very tough nut to crack and that if the devs would have a good solution in this regard they would be pretty happy to implement it. Jumping is, probably, computationally much easier, than choosing a good path horizontally and vertically to reach a player. 

You have to ask faatal. He is the one who wrote the  pathing algorithm and according to him it is not as easy as you might think. Especially in a world that can change every second.
 

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8 hours ago, Tehnomaag said:

They already have different models, so having 3m high zombie would be just weird, in my opinion. 

 

Besides, they should be able to climb anyway. Maybe some day they will. After all they learned to swim in a19. 

well not rly .. biker   lumberjack or cop is visually different in size ....  butt cheerleader need perfectly same space to walk through as biker  ... they dont differ  even by  1/8 block  only demolisher/dog  ... and likely snake? can be filtered out this way

 and if biker crawler spider fat mom need perfectly same space to fit its alot more weird than if  lumberjack needed 2,2  block for example

6 hours ago, Tehnomaag said:

Oh I'm sure that a player who wants can always "cheese" the NPC's by exploiting their predictability or specific algorithmic weaknesses, be it then pathfinding, aggression algorithm or threat assesment algorithms. 

 

I just think it would be cool and somewhat scary, if a zombie dog or, say, zombie snow tiger would be coming at you along the wall or roof Alien-style. Plus ofc pile of zombies slowly climbing over a wall has certain cinematic effects (not counting the current staking on top of each other really as climbing). 

 

I'm pretty sure a good pathfinding algorithm that is computationally easy enough to be handed out to bunch of zombies in this game is a very tough nut to crack and that if the devs would have a good solution in this regard they would be pretty happy to implement it. Jumping is, probably, computationally much easier, than choosing a good path horizontally and vertically to reach a player. 

for spiders .. sure it was unique  but they looked really weird when climbing and even simple wood frame on top blocked them ... barbed wire would even  kill them because any damage taken made them fall and climb again ... eventually dying fromf all damage

 

so game wise it lead just to ugly bases with frames / poles on top  ... and  0  gameplay impact (wood poles / frames or even barbed wires cost almost nothing

 

for piling up .. it happens  already  if you spawn  50  zombies  they will aim all on first damaged block  .. making huge pile 2-3 zombies high . as they jump on top of each other and eventually jump over 4-5 high wall

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