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Solomon

Should T6 tier even exist?

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  1. 1. As the title, shoult T6 exist in its current form?

    • Yes.
      35
    • No.
      6
    • Dont care.
      2
    • Other opinion (please write down)
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T6 tier in all cases is better than what you can craft making sure that the moment you loot a T6 pistol/fireaxe/hammer or whatever all crafting for that specific equipment is useless.

 

I get it that it exist to encourage looting but the way it stands now the only purpose weapon and tool parts have is to be used as late as possible or never because why would you even waste time to craft for example any tier of the stone axe when you know that very soon you will see the T6 version dropping even if you would argue that the stone axe is dirt cheap its the same for all avaible gear.

 

 

Weapons are already can only by gained by finding them, crafting from other weapons or buying from the trader but as soon as you get your T6 weapon all of this is moot.

Also since weapons cant break and our crafting abilities are limited it seems like a bad idea to have a function what cuts content out the game.

 

Personally i would much more prefer to be locked at T5 tier gear only and with every 50th level we unlock one more tier to craft what each comes with unique features instead of "X is in all forms better than the previous".

Edited by Solomon (see edit history)
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This is just another way to ask "should the highest quality be craftable?"  TFP have pretty much already answered this question:  No.

 

Let's say TFP think you're right and remove quality 6..... then they'll make quality 5 uncraftable.   Odds are good that when legendary items are added, quality 6 will be craftable again.

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At first I was kind of upset about not being able to craft T6 equipment.  I mean I have max points in shotguns, shouldn't I be able to craft the best of the best?  But after playing for a bit I realized if I could just craft all T6 then what is the real point in clearing out POIs?  Trying to find those last couple of pieces of T6 is one of the main reasons I keep going in to these deathtraps the devs have designed.  

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6 hours ago, Solomon said:

T6 tier in all cases is better than what you can craft making sure that the moment you loot a T6 pistol/fireaxe/hammer or whatever all crafting for that specific equipment is useless.

 

I get it that it exist to encourage looting but the way it stands now the only purpose weapon and tool parts have is to be used as late as possible or never because why would you even waste time to craft for example any tier of the stone axe when you know that very soon you will see the T6 version dropping even if you would argue that the stone axe is dirt cheap its the same for all avaible gear.

 

 

Weapons are already can only by gained by finding them, crafting from other weapons or buying from the trader but as soon as you get your T6 weapon all of this is moot.

Also since weapons cant break and our crafting abilities are limited it seems like a bad idea to have a function what cuts content out the game.

 

Personally i would much more prefer to be locked at T5 tier gear only and with every 50th level we unlock one more tier to craft what each comes with unique features instead of "X is in all forms better than the previous".

 

In my current co-op game (where we are past day 50 and thinking about restarting because our loot boxes are full, I still don't have a q6 tactical assault and also no q6 m60. Ask me whether it is useless to build a q5.

 

Even my co-op players who all had found a q6 gun eventually have built lower quality guns because at the time they were an improvement.

 

You could as well ask why craft a  q1 primitve bow on day 1 when you are sure to find a q4-6 compound bow eventually?

 

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I don't follow your reasoning. Why wouldn't I spend 2 seconds and essentially no resources to craft a better stone axe? Also why wouldn't I craft the highest quality iron tools I can? The only thing I may hold off on crafting are steel tools or rare weapons and for them I wait until I can craft Tier 5 versions. To me it sounds like there is another reason why you don't like the Tier 6 weapons that isn't articulated in your post. Maybe frustration at looting tier 6 variants? 

Edited by Kosmic Kerman (see edit history)

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29 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

I don't follow your reasoning. Why wouldn't I spend 2 seconds and essentially no resources to craft a better stone axe? Also why wouldn't I craft the highest quality iron tools I can? The only thing I may hold off on crafting are steel tools or rare weapons and for them I wait until I can craft Tier 5 versions. To me it sounds like there is another reason why you don't like the Tier 6 weapons that isn't articulated in your post. Maybe frustration at looting tier 6 variants? 

Well, you're forgetting the skill points you have to spend. 

 

In the first days of A19 I'm not going to waste a point on Miner 69'r just to craft a L2 stone axe, because I absolutely know I will find a L3 or L4 even, within an hour or two.  That mindset does carry over to weapons now as well.  Saves me skill points for things that I deem a lot more worthy in the early game, namely attributes which I find are a lot more worthwhile.  

 

Eventually, yes I will perk into Miner 69'r and Clubs and Pistols or whatever...but that's mostly for the extra damage those perks do, not so I can craft a slightly better one.  Steel tools and Tier 3 weapons are a different story since I tend to be able to make them before they start dropping, and, with weapon parts being somewhat rare, I'd only ever craft a L5 once I've hoarded enough parts.   Armour I don't bother to craft at all, and would only perk into it once I find a set of purple (and have points to waste in the later game).

 

It seems crafting (tools, armour and weapons) has been marginalized with the abundance of loot.  Still lots of stuff to craft though...mods, etc. so I don't mind.  It's they way the game plays now, or at least the way I play it.  Other people maybe don't quest and loot as much as I do so they can craft their stuff if they want to perk into them, I don't hold it against them.

 

As for the poll, those extra mod slots on purples are what it's all about.  If I could craft them I would, but I don't care if I can craft them or not...as long as I can get my hands on them somehow.

 

 

Edited by Ezed (see edit history)
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5 minutes ago, Ezed said:

 

Well, you're forgetting the skill points you have to spend. 

 

In the first days of A19 I'm not going to waste a point on Miner 69'r just to craft a L2 stone axe, because I absolutely know I will find a L3 or L4 even, with an hour or two.  That mindset does carry over to weapons now as well.  Saves me skill points for things that I deem a lot more worthy in the early game, namely attributes which I find are a lot more worthwhile.  

 

Eventually, yes I will perk into Miner 69'r and Clubs and Pistols or whatever...but that's mostly for the extra damage those perks do, not so I can craft a slightly better one.  Steel tools and Tier 3 weapons are a different story since I tend to be able to make them before they start dropping, and, with weapon parts being somewhat rare, I'd only ever craft a L5 once I've hoarded enough parts.   Armour I don't bother to craft at all, and would only perk into it once I find a set of purple (and have points to waste in the later game).

 

It seems crafting (tools, armour and weapons) has been marginalized.  Still lots of stuff to craft though...mods, etc. so I don't mind.  It's they way the game plays now, or at least the way I play it.  

In SP I usually go for utility perks nowadays, but this is also because I still get OP weapons and armor through trader inventory or trader quests. Once that is history I will likely have to reconsider.

In MP I have a lot more points available for gun and melee perks and usually will craft weapons (if that isn't short-cutted by the trader selling me a tier3 any quality weapon).

 

So in essence the trader is the crucial element to fix for more useful crafting. There still may be lesser problems because of high quality low tier weapons being too good against mid-tier low quality weapons, but that is a secondary concern at the moment.

 

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25 minutes ago, Ezed said:

 

Well, you're forgetting the skill points you have to spend. 

 

In the first days of A19 I'm not going to waste a point on Miner 69'r just to craft a L2 stone axe, because I absolutely know I will find a L3 or L4 even, within an hour or two.  That mindset does carry over to weapons now as well.  Saves me skill points for things that I deem a lot more worthy in the early game, namely attributes which I find are a lot more worthwhile.  

 

 

And? The fact that you don't spend points in a particular skill doesn't mean other people don't. A lot of people spend points in Miner 69er or specific weapons for the extra damage. Besides, how you spend your points in the early game has little, if anything, to do with whether Tier 6 weapons serve a purpose.

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Errmm...

1 hour ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

I don't follow your reasoning. Why wouldn't I spend 2 seconds and essentially no resources to craft a better stone axe? 

I was enlightening you to the fact that other people play different ways and providing a scenario as an answer to YOUR question. 

8 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

 

And? The fact that you don't spend points in a particular skill doesn't mean other people don't.

I guess you missed the part where I said exactly that.  

 

Rage on though...

 

 

Edited by Ezed (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, Kalen said:

This is just another way to ask "should the highest quality be craftable?"  TFP have pretty much already answered this question:  No.

 

Let's say TFP think you're right and remove quality 6..... then they'll make quality 5 uncraftable.   Odds are good that when legendary items are added, quality 6 will be craftable again.

Not likely.

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23 minutes ago, madmole said:

Not likely.

Wait, what's not likely, you removing Q6 (which was mostly a joke) or Q6 being craftable when legendaries are in?

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26 minutes ago, madmole said:

Not likely.

Yeah, well. who doesn't want a quest that is as long as the average DLC ? It would take 1 week to make with 50 guys and 1 cup. The reward would be those beautiful Q6 100%.

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)

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Its very RNG to get upper quality items especially t3.  With that said crafting is a way to get to upper quality items of a certain quality more reliably.  This is even more the case with the slowed down loot progression of A19.

 

OP, have you actually experienced what your concerned about or is it mostly just what if / theoycrafting?

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

In my current co-op game (where we are past day 50 and thinking about restarting because our loot boxes are full, I still don't have a q6 tactical assault and also no q6 m60. Ask me whether it is useless to build a q5.

We are currently on day 80 and still miss some Q6 equipment. Not just eqiupment but also other not-craftable stuff like solar cells. Basically this is what keeps us still going. We have a chest full of dukes and ressources to build whatever we want, reached T5 quests and already did every T5 quest-poi that is available. If we could craft that stuff i guess we would have stopped that playthrough already.

 

BTW: Is there still a "go to next trader"-quest coming once you've reached T5 quests? I hoped that would carry us on with exploring the map.

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2 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

BTW: Is there still a "go to next trader"-quest coming once you've reached T5 quests? I hoped that would carry us on with exploring the map.

Yes, there is one more once you've done a bunch (I think 10?) T5 quests. 

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7 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Yes, there is one more once you've done a bunch (I think 10?) T5 quests. 

But then it stops? I guess than we already have done that. Sad.

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3 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

But then it stops? I guess than we already have done that. Sad.

Yup, thats all that there is in the xml for now.

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From what's been said by Joel on this in the past Tier 6 is a placeholder for Legendaries. Uncraftable, loot only.

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1 hour ago, Kalen said:

Wait, what's not likely, you removing Q6 (which was mostly a joke) or Q6 being craftable when legendaries are in?

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

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Interesting.  Thanks for the tidbits. 

 

I was kind of hoping legendary to be a tier above purple with yet another mod slot!!  Ya, I luvs my modslots :) ...but I guess there aren't enough mods to fill that many slots. 

 

I was also hoping that only 1 Legendary (per item type) would ever spawn in a world, making it super rare and coveted...and in MP, maybe worth fighting over :)

 

 

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38 minutes ago, madmole said:

The top ranges will always be non craftable.

And that is finally the point the OP complains about (and already did in different threads). In the end it doesn't matter if it is called T6, purple, legendary overpowered, unique or zombie-crunching tool. He is complaining about he can't craft the "best" state of a tool.

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11 hours ago, Solomon said:

T6 tier in all cases is better than what you can craft making sure that the moment you loot a T6 pistol/fireaxe/hammer or whatever all crafting for that specific equipment is useless.

I would not see it that way. Since you can often craft Q5 items earlier than you find them and Q6 items are rare, the items you craft can serve you well for a long time. They can also be useful beyond that. When I found a Q6 auto shotgun, I used my crafted Q5 auto shotgun as a secondary weapon for the horde and loaded it with slugs.
 

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

In other words Legendary is a tier, not a quality. I assume Legendary tier items will probably not be craftable at any quality? I hope not anyhow...how is it "legendary" if stupid ol' me can make one at my makeshift workbench?

 

As a crafter myself, I think the highest-quality (non-Legendary) items should only be craftable by stupid ol' me on my makeshift workbench, but I will sit here in my wrongness. 😔

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3 hours ago, Ezed said:

In the first days of A19 I'm not going to waste a point on Miner 69'r just to craft a L2 stone axe, because I absolutely know I will find a L3 or L4 even, within an hour or two.  That mindset does carry over to weapons now as well.  Saves me skill points for things that I deem a lot more worthy in the early game, namely attributes which I find are a lot more worthwhile.  

 

Eventually, yes I will perk into Miner 69'r and Clubs and Pistols or whatever...but that's mostly for the extra damage those perks do, not so I can craft a slightly better one.  Steel tools and Tier 3 weapons are a different story since I tend to be able to make them before they start dropping, and, with weapon parts being somewhat rare, I'd only ever craft a L5 once I've hoarded enough parts.   Armour I don't bother to craft at all, and would only perk into it once I find a set of purple (and have points to waste in the later game).

 

As for the poll, those extra mod slots on purples are what it's all about.  If I could craft them I would, but I don't care if I can craft them or not...as long as I can get my hands on them somehow.

well single  point in miner /weapon  gives you  more damage/block damage than 1 quality level  regardles of what you using .... even with q6 so those points are never wasted ... actually miner69er is strongest perk for building..  and quite valueble even if you just break doors/safes .... weapon perk damage is great as well ... so even if you never craft one you didnt wasted anything  quality  is  just bonus added to existing perk

 

and if nothing else ... its always easy way to craft  Q5 top tier stuff you missing ... and Q5  are  not really that far from Q6  if you look at stats ...8% +6%  from mod ?  enought to serve as  endgame item .... while still keeping some motivation and space to loot better one

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Both. Legendary might come in all qualities so people experience them and have some meaningful choices to make... Do I ditch this brown iron legedary for a green non legendary? The top ranges will always be non craftable.

question is ... will be legendary significantly better than Q6 ?  or will be green legendary comparable to green normal ...with some special bonus .. and potentialy worse than higher quality normal gun

can we expect more mod slots that Q6?

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1 hour ago, Boidster said:

In other words Legendary is a tier, not a quality.

Nit picking. Either top-end stuff is craftable or not. Doesn't matter if you call it legendary, T6, purple... oh i guess i already stated that...

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