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Why I like the new loot system (as an miner/crafter)


Finnark

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29 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Then i think im on the weirdest streak of bad luck because we just mined down an entire hill next to our base and not a single iron or coal vein was around.

Uhm... i guess the ore veins are generated below "surface" (below sea level or whatever zero is). So if you mine down a hill, you will find nothing. You need to go deeper. I just once mined down a hill, and iirc there were also no ores.

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6 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Uhm... i guess the ore veins are generated below "surface" (below sea level or whatever zero is). So if you mine down a hill, you will find nothing. You need to go deeper. I just once mined down a hill, and iirc there were also no ores.

Heres a link to our base:

 

 

Its a big as hell hill, the entire thing is based on a weirdly working idea on how the zombies just cannot reach us.

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1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Uhm... i guess the ore veins are generated below "surface" (below sea level or whatever zero is). So if you mine down a hill, you will find nothing. You need to go deeper. I just once mined down a hill, and iirc there were also no ores.

The surface is what you stand on. You will notice that the dirt player stops after a few blocks down, no matter if you're on a hill or not.

 

The distribution really has not changed much since A17. Couple minor tweaks here and there but this old screenshot is still completely representative.

A17_ore_distribution.thumb.jpg.16c89874659811c03b323d70c0dc2214.jpg

 

There are still large "empty" spaces between ore veins so digging down at a random spot is not a guarantee to find anything but rocks.

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22 minutes ago, Gazz said:

The surface is what you stand on. You will notice that the dirt player stops after a few blocks down, no matter if you're on a hill or not.

That's why i wrote surface in quotation marks and added sea level in brackets. 🙄

 

My thesis was that ores are just generated below a certain height (like below sea level). So you won't find any by just removing a hill, because you will not get below this certain height.

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4 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

My thesis was that ores are just generated below a certain height (like below sea level). So you won't find any by just removing a hill, because you will not get below this certain height.

Right, and Gazz is explaining why this isn't correct. Ores start several blocks below terrain height, regardless of how high that terrain is above sea level.

 

Mountain (snow in the desert? yeah 19.0 map in 19.1...it happens):

image.png.fb4a6f919f94d32f13806de03018e25b.png

 

Inside that mountain, looking down (from about +120m):

image.png.f8a9c9c10f606836e96563fe8627239a.png

 

Ore is found at all elevations, starting a few blocks below the surface.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Solomon said:

Then i think im on the weirdest streak of bad luck because we just mined down an entire hill next to our base and not a single iron or coal vein was around.

So, if you mean you mined out the entire hill - flattening it to the surrounding terrain - and found zero ores, that would be very unlucky though it depends on how big the "hill" is. If you found ores, but just not iron or coal, then that could be RNG and biome related (certain ores are more prevalent in certain biomes, but they all can be found in all biomes except oil shale).

 

If you mean you mined "down", as in, straight down, then you ought to switch to branch mining.


This is looking top-down. You mine down at X, about 20 blocks. Then mine out a (H)allway north (for example). Then you start mining tunnels to the east (---) and at some point you stop, turn north again, mine three blocks of the (R)eturn hallway, then mine west to get back to the hallway. Just cover a horizontal area with these tunnels and you'll find ore. Actually you'll find gravel and as soon as you see gravel just start digging it out - it always leads to ore.

H-----------------R                
H                 R
H                 R
H-----------------R
H                 R
H                 R
H-----------------R
X

 

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1 hour ago, Boidster said:

Right, and Gazz is explaining why this isn't correct.

But he just said that the clay stops. That's right, i didn't state that hills consist of clay.

Just because there is stone under 3-4 layers of clay doesn't mean there are ores.

 

But ok, if ores are also in hills, i also haven't found some there yet. I usually don't dig complete hills down, but also haven't found ore when piercing tunnels through hills.

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23 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

What has your base to do with where you can find ore and where not?

You mentioned that it could be that most ores are generated below a set "surface" level so it made sense to me that i only dont have much coal and iron because we are on a hill.

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I'm kind of on the fence with this issue. I play with my GF so we always allocate roles and do our jobs. She's the looter and I'm the crafter/builder. It's nice that I can make her good tools and weapons before she can find better things. 

 

On the other hand, I find it off putting to break open gun vaults or climb gun factories only to find primitive tools. 

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23 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

But ok, if ores are also in hills, i also haven't found some there yet. I usually don't dig complete hills down, but also haven't found ore when piercing tunnels through hills.

I guess the point is (and you can see this in biomes.xml) that the RNG chances for ore always start just a few blocks below topsoil (or topsand or topsnow, whatever) in every biome at every elevation. It doesn't even recognize "hill" or "mountain" as a thing, nor reference any sea-level elevation. It's just X layers below the surface, there's a chance for ore. It's still RNG (based on world seed) so of course there will be vast areas of nothing but stone.

 

For example here is one sub-biome of the Snow biome:

 

<layers>
  <layer depth="1" blockname="terrSnow"/>

  <layer depth="3" blockname="terrDirt"/>
  <layer depth="*" blockname="terrStone">
    <resource blockname="terrOreIron" prob="0.6500" rwgGenerationType="all"/>
    <resource blockname="terrGravel" prob="0.7830" rwgGenerationType="all"/>
  </layer>
  <layer depth="3" blockname="terrBedrock"/>
</layers>

 

So this specifies one layer of snow (the "topsoil"), 3 layers of dirt, then all the rest of the layers (except the last 3 which are bedrock) are stone + a chance for iron/gravel.

 

Interestingly, the surface ore boulders are prefabs like a house might be. I need to research that a bit more, but the implication is that every ore field attached to a surface boulder has the same layout underground (though it may be rotated).

 

<decoration type="prefab" name="deco_iron_vein" checkresource="-7" onslopes="true" prob=".00657" rotatemax="3"/>

 

Edit: Hmm maybe not. I'm thinking that the "checkresource" parameter there actually forces the decoration/prefab engine to...uh...check for the resource underground (maybe 7 blocks down?) and then only place the "prefab" boulder over the top of a pre-existing ore field. The prefab itself does extend a few blocks down - basically the first 5-7 ore nodes are part of the prefab, which is just linking into whatever ore field the RWG put down there.

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