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Intelligence Woes.

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Of current, the intelligence stat-tree is an odd ducky. 

Every attribute has two weapon skills, minimum. A ranged one and a melee one. 

 

So no matter what stat you pick, you can have weapons of your own without having to branch into something else. Right? 

Strength has shotguns and clubs/hammers. Perception has rifles and spears (and explosives) Fortitude has machineguns and fists. 

 

Intelligence has stun-batons and robots. 

Unfortunately, there's only one type of stun-baton in the game, and it requires parts, which makes it function more like a gun in terms of crafting. 

 

To build a pistol, you require pistol parts. At the start of the game this prevents you from just specing into pistols, building your own pistol and then going to do your thing. You require a melee weapon. You can make a knife from bone, or a melee weapon from any other catagory from stone. Then you get the blueprint to make iron, then you finally unlock steel, and at THIS point, you have to use all of those machete-parts that you've been stockpiling for the whole game so far. 

Same with spears (stone/iron/steel. Only steel requires parts) Same with clubs, sledgehammers, brawling weapons, ect. 

 

Electrocutioner doesn't have this. You start the game, you get some skill-points, you put those points into Stun Batons. 

...

...

... 

Get yourself a club instead, and try to fight your way to the midgame until stun-batons start to drop in loot-boxes because even with the blueprint, you don't actually have the ability to build your chosen weapon yet. Not even a crappy stone version.

We need a stone and iron tier of stun-baton. 

This is hard, obviously, because stone-age tools don't really mesh well with electronics, but we can rig something up. 

A flashlight converted into a taser? Then the baton (which shouldn't require parts, as an iron-grade melee weapon) and then finally a steel-version. Like a sword with a battery hooked up to it, to shock dudes as you cut, or a big dumb telsa-cannon, if you don't care about mixing up your ranged and melee skill-trees. 

 

Likewise, the robots tree is a little funky too, because it's clearly supposed to be your ranged-weapon tree, but... uh. It's not

The little gun-turret seems great. I love the idea.

If only I could find or make one. 

But instead i have this automatic sledgehammer, which... Is a really cool idea, but it's obviously a melee weapon, and a bad one, at that. 

It doesn't let me shoot things. It actually has worse range than any other skill-tree. 

 

I mean, it has problems of it's own. I love knocking dudes flying and it genuinely feels really powerful to use. (in that the sound-effects and animation look and feel powerful) 

Unfortunately the reality is something different. I had three points in robotics and a quality 5 robotic sledge, and it did 15 damage. With mods. 

That's weaker than a club. That's weaker than my stone-spear.

Placing it is... Honestly, I placed it once to block a doorway, but it doesn't have the range to actually impede a meaningful amount of zombies, and since it can't actually kill anything on it's own, it's more or less only useful for shoving dudes down the stairs. 

To kill things while holding it, you have to 'bully' them. Knock them down and then slam them on the ground 5 or six times until all of their limbs come off and they die from it. 

 

Also, a sledgehammer robot doesn't really feel stone-tier. It's clearly a work of advanced crafting and electronics. 

I'd suggest moving the robot-sledge to the same 'tier' as the robot gun and raising it's damage to match, then replacing it as your starting-tier ranged weapon with... a Ballista or something. 

 

In your hands it would function like a large but primitive crossbow. Made primarily of wood, slow reloading but firing large but simple bolts that are easy to craft (like how turret ammo only costs iron) that pierce through enemies. 

 

When placed as a turret, it wouldn't fire on it's own, but instead have the same function that a shotgun turret has, where you can interact with it to aim and fire it manually. 

 

Basically, you set it up into 'siege mode' and then have to actually sit in it and fire. This would up the accuracy significantly (give you actually sights to work with, unlike in it's 'travel mode') and speed up your reloads, but render you immobile until you get out and pick it back up as a tradeoff. 

Travel mode is for looting and scavenging. Siege mode is for base defence.

 

... alternatively, if you feel that isn't thematic. A Pitching machine modified to fire rocks, and with a sensor to track enemies. 

Functions just like the robot turret, but fires stones instead of robot ammo, and does worse damage. 

This feels like something that should be fairly easy for an amateur robotics to cook up, in the middle of the apocalypse. It's not actually a gun, it's a more-or less intact machine that you just put a motion-sensor and a swivel on. 

It's also way more boring than my bad-ass siege ballista idea, but probably more setting compliant. And it would explain why it scraps into Robot Parts, unlike the Balista which would be made mostly out of wood. 

 

So, in summary.

Suggested weapons for Melee. 

Primitive: Stungun. Made from a converted flashlight. High stun chance, low-damage, short-range. 

Iron: Stun Baton (same as now. medicore damage with moderate chance to stun)

Steel: The Electrocutioner (electrified sword, good base damage, high chance to stun) 

 

Ranged: 

Tier 1: Ballista Turret/Pitching Machine. 

Tier 2: Automatic turret + Robot Sledge

Tier 3: Flying drone?

 

TLDR: We need an entry-level weapon in electrocutioner, otherwise the entire skill-tree isn't useable until the midgame, and our entry-level weapon in Robots needs to actually be a gun of some type, in order to bring intelligence in line with other stats. 

 

 

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If you were willing to rework the skills completely, either removing the electric theme from melee and the robot theme from ranged, or just having each skill contain both ranged and melee weapons, you could have a gun-style taser for an entry-level ranged/electrocutioner weapon. (Fire nails or darts, low-damage but guaranteed shock-proc if you hit) and a lightning cannon for the final tier.

 

Likewise, the melee tree could have the stun-baton, but it could also have a pneumatic sledgehammer or a pile-bunker. Something that you don't simply swing and hit enemies with, but that allows you to use your technical knowledge to hit harder than your puny nerd body should be capable of.

 

An entry-level robot could be a wind-up blade-trap. It only rotates 10 times before stopping and needing to be interacted with by a player, but it attacks a full circle around it simultaneously like a proper blade trap, so it's not as useless as the placed sledge-robot. 

It only does leg-shots, so it's not great at killing, but it'll cripple a whole room and make the cleanup easier. 

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Yep. I do think that int tree could use a tier 1 option for its chosen weapons. However, I would go with the first tier more in the direction of "Steampunk" than towards electronics/robotics - to keep in line with the theme where tier 1 is supposed to be a "primitive" option made of the simplest materials. 

 

Another point is that I'd consider splitting the robotics tree in two branches, a ranged branch and a melee branch. For example:

A ranged branch. (1) steampunk-stone-thrower (2) scrap turret (3) smg turret (4) "sniper" turret

A melee branch. (1) steampunk-stone-sledgehammer (2) sledgehammer turret (3) shotgun turret (4) flamethrower turret

 

Where the first tier can be made of "primitive" materials, i.e., stone, wood, plants, clay and maaaybe some scrap iron for the sake of plausibility, which is sort of easy enough to get as soon as you have stone axe to break something yielding some metal. Maybe make the first tiers use anything with "burning" ability as a fuel to keep it operational to go with the steampunk theme. While the highest tier versions can require electricity like they do currently. 

 

A "steampunk" stun baton should fit the same theme, wood, stone, plants and maaaybe some scrap iron, at most. Flashlight would be a bit too specific and not really and day 1 proposition if rng does not smile upon thee. It does not need to be electricity themed, just make it hiss a little and blow some steam if it stuns or something. 

 

Other than the lowest tier weapons missing the int tree is, actually, quite strong. Especially the increased trader rewards side is, basically, the "new lucky looter" perk. At least until devs get around putting traders into the same framework they did with the loot. The crafting bonuses, etc, are a bit of an "meh", because by the time you are in a position to make steel you will not really care about 20%/35% cost reduction anymore - it will not mean the difference between being able to pull off whaterver project you have undertaken requiring steel or forged iron mass production and not being able to pull that off.  Maybe if the final crafting-perks tiers would unlock some kind of ability not available through schematics, like, for example, ability to craft parts or something. But the first tiers of crafting trees are quite strong. The early bicycle/forge/workbench/chemstation can be quite a gamechanger. 

 

Jeep is useless btw. One is better off making two motocycles than a jeep if two people need to move somewhere. 

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Honestly the main problem i see is that due to the current loot gating you reach the tier of intelligence items too late ingame.

 

What i would suggest is makeshift tazer weapons, like get some acid, some lead and put it in a bottle and attach 2 wires out of it onto a metal weapon and BOOM you have an intelligence based melee weapon. It looks primitive, the costs are relatively cheap and you can electrocute stuff with it.

 

For ranged weapons you could probably make a razor blade launcher or some other funky looking thing. Get some iron, mechanical parts, springs and make it launch various blade projectiles OR make a flamethrower.

Edited by Solomon (see edit history)
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How about a melee ranged, spring loaded, rock shooting "gun" that has low damage and a moderate knock back?

 

EDIT: And a not-too-slow reload speed.

Edited by Maharin (see edit history)

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group baton have chance to drop from GS 10 (you call that midgame rofl ?) not to mention  you are not getting anything significant from attribute before gs  10 (who takes melee weapon perks in first few levels anyway) when you can one point into strong perks  like pack mule , healing, tool perk,barter ......

 

not to mention int tree is OP together with strenght

 

primitive version of  "tech based tree"  just doesnt make any sense considering that  stun baton is already rather primitive ..

 

spring based rock shooter?  we talk  there about tier of weapons like literaly picked up branch (wood club) or  broken sharp bone  thats why we call it stone age ...  those things literaly existed at that time .. but did    average prehistoric monkey guy wear taser or "ductape + spring based rock shootin gun" with "not too bad reload" as backup ? dont think sospacer.pngspacer.png

 

 

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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Funny, I don't consider pack mule or healing or barter as strong perks at all.  In fact, I never perk into them unless it's in the later game when I have points to waste (even then Pack Mule is a complete waste to me since armour and pocket mods do that job just fine without spending any points that are better used elsewhere).  

 

People have different playstyles.  Strong (must have) perks IMO are, Living off the Land (1 point), Master Chef (1 point), and Sex Rex since it helps enormously with both melee and mining.  Early game I'm all about Attributes...Strength to 6 ASAP (in anticipation of the Cigar to make 7) for the Club and Shotgun/Blunderbuss buffs.  After that I start working on Agility for Pistols (9mm early and Desert Vulture for later) and Parkour which has saved my life many times over...you don't need to heal if you don't get swatted.

 

 

Edit...I guess that was mostly off the topic, but as far as INT goes, there are more weapons to come, I'm sure INT will see some additions when they're ready.

 

 

 

Edited by Ezed (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, Ezed said:

Funny, I don't consider pack mule or healing or barter as strong perks at all.  In fact, I never perk into them unless it's in the later game when I have points to waste (even then Pack Mule is a complete waste to me since armour and pocket mods do that job just fine without spending any points that are better used elsewhere).  

 

People have different playstyles.  Strong (must have) perks IMO are, Living off the Land (1 point), Master Chef (1 point), and Sex Rex since it helps enormously with both melee and mining.  Early game I'm all about Attributes...Strength to 6 ASAP (in anticipation of the Cigar to make 7) for the Club and Shotgun/Blunderbuss buffs.  After that I start working on Agility for Pistols (9mm early and Desert Vulture for later) and Parkour which has saved my life many times over...you don't need to heal if you don't get swatted.

 

 

Edit...I guess that was mostly off the topic, but as far as INT goes, there are more weapons to come, I'm sure INT will see some additions when they're ready.

healing shortens "critical hit debuffs"  sure useless if you carry  5+ items to treat everything  and never break leg

pack mule ...  you should get this on  3/5  soon or later  encumberment slows you down significantly  and 3/5  is what you need to unlock all inventory slots  with  2 slot mods in clothing and   tripple pocket in leg armor /gloves using pocket mod in other armor pieces is  not too smart as you have only  4 slots and best setup is  +2 armor/movement penalty reduction/stealth leaving us with  1free in each

helmet :  helmet light = awesome mod

chest : bandolier = reload  no brainer

boots : .... impact bracing = adding  2-3  blocks to fall distance before yout ake damage or break something is never bad

 

gloves/leg armor have nothing too valuable  for  4th slot thats why is  3/5 enought personally i use  2/5  because i like that "debuff"  showing how when you nearing full inv

 

btw shotgun is trash  str is valuable for block damage / harvest bonus   ... still weapon perks are insignificant at veru early stage of game  who care if your wooden club deals  1 more damage  so no way to use  electrocutioner before gamestage 10  is completely insignificant( you can buy  t1 items from trader if youa r elucky from day  1)

 

what they could do is adding broken stun baton for primitive tier :D acting as non functional stun baton with no charge :D

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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18 minutes ago, alanea said:

All that ^

 

Thanks, but again...different playstyles. 

 

I carry medicated bandages and painkillers...and seldom take any serious damage, and when I do get fatigued or break a limb, it can wait until I get home.  So, a waste.

 

I am efficient with what I carry and what I pick up and utilize my vehicle storage and occasionally steroids.  Encumbrance is not an issue for me.  So, a waste.

 

You can equip a bandolier into leg armour.

 

Shotgun is trash?  That's OK if you think so.  Since I already perk into Strength, I do take advantage of the double dip with the Blunderbuss until I get my preferred weapons.

 

I very seldom perk into anything in the INT tree at all.  I can find everything I need in loot or purchase from trader in that tree

 

So...once more before I go, different playstyles.  I'm not trying to convince you of anything except maybe players (just like people in the real world) have different priorities.   You seem convinced your playstyle is best, and undoubtedly that's true...for YOU...so don't stop believin'

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1 hour ago, Ezed said:

 

Thanks, but again...different playstyles. 

 

I carry medicated bandages and painkillers...and seldom take any serious damage, and when I do get fatigued or break a limb, it can wait until I get home.  So, a waste.

 

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

I am efficient with what I carry and what I pick up and utilize my vehicle storage and occasionally steroids.  Encumbrance is not an issue for me.  So, a waste.

well play with  -15  inventory if you want .. for me  the more slots i have the more i can loot  before returning to  trader

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

You can equip a bandolier into leg armour.

hmm thats still a thing ? ... they dont stack anyway  the only thing you can put in 2 left over slots is insulation i guess

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

Shotgun is trash?  That's OK if you think so.  Since I already perk into Strength, I do take advantage of the double dip with the Blunderbuss until I get my preferred weapons.

a17+  shotgun is nowhere close to old OP one  ... but its more killed by the fact it easily  1 shot wooden floors in poi   creating holes   you have to parkoyr / drop zombies at lower floor that come back soon or later from behind

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

I very seldom perk into anything in the INT tree at all.  I can find everything I need in loot or purchase from trader in that tree

yes a18  made recipes far too  common ... but if youw ant build  /craft something serious   its a must there is no way to get solar bank  except  5/5 better barter ( 10 int) = also value of items you sell there is also perk for  50%  xp from trap kills ... .. and another that make crafting fromforge cheaper ... signfificantly improving efficiency of your work

1 hour ago, Ezed said:

So...once more before I go, different playstyles.  I'm not trying to convince you of anything except maybe players (just like people in the real world) have different priorities.   You seem convinced your playstyle is best, and undoubtedly that's true...for YOU...so don't stop believin'

 

or maybe you could accept opinion that picking electrocutioner  before GS 10(  probably like first  5 levels)  or even lvl  2-3 with  candy is suboptimal as theres many perks that are better early ( you actually agreed with this  just started arguing  on top of that  )

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Is it arguing to discuss different approaches?  So be it.

 

With my approach, solar banks are not worth all the points I'd have to put into INT and Better Barter, nevermind the cost in Dukes for bank itself plus the cells, when you can fuel a generator for weeks on the gas you scavenge from a handful of cars.   Factor in a battery bank or two that's charged by a generator and solar banks are of no use to me whatsoever.

 

Oh...and I can loot the exact same amount as you can.  I may move slower until I get to my bike and from the bike to the trader, but that's not a big deal to me.  Once I get my armour and pocket mods the moving slower penalty is removed.

 

I don't use shotties indoors...but since I'm looting all these shells, I use them (and 9mm) up as much as possible during the week, saving my 44 and 7.62 for horde nights.

 

I do accept your opinion about electrocutioner being suboptimal...as I mention, the entire INT tree could go away and I wouldn't even notice!  I do lose out on the traps and crafting bonuses, but all things considered (I mostly only use electric fences anyway) those are acceptable losses.

 

 

 

Edited by Ezed (see edit history)

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30 minutes ago, Ezed said:

Is it arguing to discuss different approaches?  So be it.

 

With my approach, solar banks are not worth all the points I'd have to put into INT and Better Barter, nevermind the cost in Dukes for bank itself plus the cells, when you can fuel a generator for weeks on the gas you scavenge from a handful of cars.   Factor in a battery bank or two that's charged by a generator and solar banks are of no use to me whatsoever.

well its endgame  qol  swag mechanic gas isnt rare  but refueling several generators sucks

 

30 minutes ago, Ezed said:

Oh...and I can loot the exact same amount as you can.  I may move slower until I get to my bike and from the bike to the trader, but that's not a big deal to me.  Once I get my armour and pocket mods the moving slower penalty is removed.

well whole point  is  ...you cant remove  it withou sacrificing other valuable mods as 3/5  pieces have  4  powerfull mods  meaning you need   3/5  pack mule OR sacrificing some armor/stealth/mobility/ "helmet light, fall resist,reload)

quite wall of text  but in end its not useless if alternative is losing another usefull stat or speed

30 minutes ago, Ezed said:

I don't use shotties indoors...but since I'm looting all these shells, I use them (and 9mm) up as much as possible during the week, saving my 44 and 7.62 for horde nights.

yeah well   i usually kill zombies  outside from range ... so that  removes them completely for me  but really shotgun indoor " bonus feature" just sucks:D

30 minutes ago, Ezed said:

I do accept your opinion about electrocutioner being suboptimal...as I mention, the entire INT tree could go away and I wouldn't even notice!  I do lose out on the traps and crafting bonuses, but all things considered (I mostly only use electric fences anyway) those are acceptable losses.

pretty unique approach considering most people  rush int:D and consider it  strongest tree

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26 minutes ago, alanea said:

pretty unique approach considering most people  rush int:D and consider it  strongest tree

I've read that, I even tried it for a game in experimental but it wasn't for me.  The recursor mod or whatever it's called for the stun baton is kinda cool I do admit, but I can send zombies flying with my club almost as far...and far more regularly than the stunner.    

 

Now if the schematics etc were more rare, as they used to be, INT would probably become more viable to me, but since I loot a lot, finding those have never been a problem.  Sometimes they can take a bit longer than I'd like but I can get by without them until I find them.  Skill points in my offensive capabilities are more important to me.  By the time I really need a lot of steel or electric fences etc, I've usually acquired them by other means.  

 

Agree about the block damage on the shotties...I hate it.  I usually gravitate towards shotguns in other games and it really sucks they aren't as user friendly in 7D but it is what it is.  Gotta play with the hand that's dealt me.  

 

I forgot...on the movement penalty thing.  Can't say I've ever had a big dilemma regarding which armour mods to equip, but I have  started to allow a couple or three slots of encumbrance in favor of one armour slot.  The movement penalty with 2 or 3encumrance points is pretty much negligible and having the icon pop up on the HUD is a handy way to tell me I'm about full and it's time to manage my inventory.

 

 

Edited by Ezed (see edit history)

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Ideally, instead of a hard and rigid "these stats allow for these weapons", attributes affect weapons differently, such that you'd naturally lean towards a specific weapon with specific attributes, or specific attributes for specific weapons
For example, let's say the stats do these:

Perception: increased crit chance, increased melee weapon range by percentage.
Rifles have high damage, wildly inaccurate when hip firing, relatively low base damage but high crit multiplier, you move slowly when carrying one. Spears have extra weapon range multiplier

Strength: reduced ranged weapon recoil, reduced melee stamina use
Shotguns have high damage, quite accurate, but wild recoil that effectively negates quick consecutive firing. Clubs / sledges have extra high melee base damage with extra high stamina use

Fortitude: increases move speed while carrying a weapon, increased melee base damage
Machine guns have extra slow reload animation, you move slowly when carrying one. High clip size, high attack speed, reduced recoil during ADS, but low base damage. Brawling has low base damage but extra multiplier to it

Agility: increased hip fire accuracy, increased weapon reload speed, increased melee attack speed
Pistols and SMGs have moderate damage, moderate attack speed, relatively low clip size, extra reload speed bonus. Archery has extra accuracy bonus to hip fire. Knives can cause bleeding that stacks with itself

Intellect: reduced equipment degradation, increased crafting quality every 2 points
Batons and turrets have high base damage, high attack speed, but very low durability and no innate multiplier.


So let's say you spec into Strength, but you don't use shotguns for whatever reason. You can use it in conjunction with machine guns for the extra reduced recoil, but shotguns will naturally attract you because even with reduced recoil machine guns make you move slowly while shotguns let you move much faster. Still, no real harm in doing so!

If you spec into Agility, you can play to your strength and spray bullets everywhere hoping some will connect, or use it to shore up your machine gun's low reload speed, or rifle's very low clip size

If you spec into Intellect, you'll have none of those benefits, but to compensate you'd be able to craft higher quality items that allows some degree of mistakes here and there

What about non Intellects? How do they craft higher quality weapons? Well ideally you'd be able to upgrade your weapons using extra parts and whatnot, Intellect doesn't need to do that thus saving resources

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Honestly, you wanna know what I'd like to think is a REALLY good primitive weapon for INT?

 

A motherf@#$ing Sling.

 

But before you hate on me, hear me out.   The sling is a time proven weapon.  Hand-Eye coordination is of extreme usefulness here.  I actually practice slinging IRL, and it takes a while to master, but so does archery.  Also, stones can be your ammo, and they can be found in ever stitch of the map.   Plant fibers, leather, and blammo.. you get one.   It doesn't need to do much damage, but a head shot is just as lethal.  Press out metal ball bearings and you have something that will kill just as easily as any black powder weapon.   You can even sling golf ball sized explosives if the devs wanted to go that route as well.  The problem is, that there's already a large amount of perks that take up INT already.  It would be a tough call to implement another one in.  The upside is, everything you need is already spawning in game, and a recipe and ballistics pattern is all it needs.

 


For fun an interesting facts about the sling, google Balearic Slingers.  These guys were so good at it, they were brought into not only the Carthaginian army, but eventually the Roman army as well.   There is an ancient and rich history surrounding the sling, and its worth a solid mention in the book of primitive warfare.

 

I also.. would love to see a richochet effect with sling stones, if I could be selfish and code that in.    Perhaps it doesn't even need its own perkline.  Perhaps it's just a thing that anyone can make, and it's just a static thing you can hit stuff with, like the torch.  Perhaps there's books for it.

Edited by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

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18 hours ago, alanea said:

group baton have chance to drop from GS 10 (you call that midgame rofl ?) not to mention  you are not getting anything significant from attribute before gs  10 (who takes melee weapon perks in first few levels anyway) when you can one point into strong perks  like pack mule , healing, tool perk,barter ......

 

not to mention int tree is OP together with strenght

 

primitive version of  "tech based tree"  just doesnt make any sense considering that  stun baton is already rather primitive ..

 

spring based rock shooter?  we talk  there about tier of weapons like literaly picked up branch (wood club) or  broken sharp bone  thats why we call it stone age ...  those things literaly existed at that time .. but did    average prehistoric monkey guy wear taser or "ductape + spring based rock shootin gun" with "not too bad reload" as backup ? dont think sospacer.pngspacer.png

 

 

In this case we can go with the blowdarts. Those things are hella primitive and you can make one out of any pipe you find, making poison is also something pretty early if it needs to make much sense just make it harvestable from cactuses and snakes and you got your deal.

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3 hours ago, Raestloz said:

Perception: increased crit chance, increased melee weapon range by percentage.

Strength: reduced ranged weapon recoil, reduced melee stamina use

Fortitude: increases move speed while carrying a weapon, increased melee base damage

Agility: increased hip fire accuracy, increased weapon reload speed, increased melee attack speed

Intellect: reduced equipment degradation, increased crafting quality every 2 points
 

actually not that bad idea .. but specific weapon perks  should stay as they are ... they  offer quite unique features for each group  and removing them would  make bad stats worse (agi/fort)  also quality works well now ... btw tier 6 craft ? nice try ;)

3 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Honestly, you wanna know what I'd like to think is a REALLY good primitive weapon for INT?

sling would definitely fit more into primitive tier than bs ideas like primitive taser  .. its little problematic tho as  perk increase electrocution duration and TFP like  consistency

49 minutes ago, Solomon said:

In this case we can go with the blowdarts. Those things are hella primitive and you can make one out of any pipe you find, making poison is also something pretty early if it needs to make much sense just make it harvestable from cactuses and snakes and you got your deal.

doubt sling/blowdart  is going to happen ... as primitive weapon it would be very close to  primitive bow

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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How about... A Hammer.

Just scrap the whole 'Electrocutioner' tree and replace it with a Handyman tree that increases damage with tools (like the claw hammer, stone ax, and *gasp* Nailgun). You can make Claw Hammer the Iron version and the Stun Baton the Steel Version. Or you could just scrap the Stun Baton as a weapon and just make it into a weapon/tool mod like the Weighted Head/Spikes/etc.

Yes, that means the primitive version would be the 'Stone Axe' but so what... it's the starting tool. Just make it so it takes the higher level of either Miner 69er or the new Int skill. Nerf Miner 69er a bit by removing Claw Hammer from it, and putting in a new Int skill.
 

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16 hours ago, Raestloz said:

Ideally, instead of a hard and rigid "these stats allow for these weapons", attributes affect weapons differently, such that you'd naturally lean towards a specific weapon with specific attributes, or specific attributes for specific weapons
For example, let's say the stats do these:

Perception: increased crit chance, increased melee weapon range by percentage.
Rifles have high damage, wildly inaccurate when hip firing, relatively low base damage but high crit multiplier, you move slowly when carrying one. Spears have extra weapon range multiplier

Strength: reduced ranged weapon recoil, reduced melee stamina use
Shotguns have high damage, quite accurate, but wild recoil that effectively negates quick consecutive firing. Clubs / sledges have extra high melee base damage with extra high stamina use

Fortitude: increases move speed while carrying a weapon, increased melee base damage
Machine guns have extra slow reload animation, you move slowly when carrying one. High clip size, high attack speed, reduced recoil during ADS, but low base damage. Brawling has low base damage but extra multiplier to it

Agility: increased hip fire accuracy, increased weapon reload speed, increased melee attack speed
Pistols and SMGs have moderate damage, moderate attack speed, relatively low clip size, extra reload speed bonus. Archery has extra accuracy bonus to hip fire. Knives can cause bleeding that stacks with itself

Intellect: reduced equipment degradation, increased crafting quality every 2 points
Batons and turrets have high base damage, high attack speed, but very low durability and no innate multiplier.
 

This is the best idea.  I've been thinking exactly the same thing albeit without having gone as far as figuring out specific bonuses.  Tying each weapon to a specific attribute limits build variety.  

To keep it balanced  you would have to do something like: each weapon type would still have to be assigned to an attribute (by the player, not by the game by default) and limit each attribute to one melee and one ranged weapon.  This way could retain the attribute level bonuses as they are now as well as the one-time, unlevelable bonuses listed above tied to each attribute

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On 9/17/2020 at 3:40 PM, alanea said:

actually not that bad idea .. but specific weapon perks  should stay as they are ... they  offer quite unique features for each group  and removing them would  make bad stats worse (agi/fort)  also quality works well now ... btw tier 6 craft ? nice try

The correct course of action is to overhaul the attributes so that each complements all playstyles but particularly good for specific playstyles. Honestly I don't like the idea of fortitude and strength being split. It makes zero sense to be there

 

I don't see any reason to put Q6 crafting on a Pedestal of The Gods. The ability to craft it should be available, not restricted. The very idea that a survivor does not have a way to craft a Q6 stone axe is laughable. I was surprised it even made it out of meeting

17 hours ago, Z-B said:

To keep it balanced  you would have to do something like: each weapon type would still have to be assigned to an attribute (by the player, not by the game by default) and limit each attribute to one melee and one ranged weapon.  This way could retain the attribute level bonuses as they are now as well as the one-time, unlevelable bonuses listed above tied to each attribute

I don't like the idea of weapon perks being tied to any attribute at all. Attributes should not increase damage directly to compensate for poor enemy scaling, attributes should improve your character at the direction that suits your playstyle. Nobody should be forced to go shotgun simply because they like mining, nobody should be forced to go sniper rifle if they like to go looting. If someone wants to go Fortitude and Agility build and specialize in sniper rifle then let them because that's called a marksman

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12 hours ago, Raestloz said:

The correct course of action is to overhaul the attributes so that each complements all playstyles but particularly good for specific playstyles. Honestly I don't like the idea of fortitude and strength being split. It makes zero sense to be there

correct course  nope  just your opinion

removing choices  unifiing all builds into universal character  equally skilled in everything  ... is actually opposing  course of every RPG

 

12 hours ago, Raestloz said:

I don't see any reason to put Q6 crafting on a Pedestal of The Gods. The ability to craft it should be available, not restricted. The very idea that a survivor does not have a way to craft a Q6 stone axe is laughable. I was surprised it even made it out of meeting

I don't like the idea of weapon perks being tied to any attribute at all. Attributes should not increase damage directly to compensate for poor enemy scaling, attributes should improve your character at the direction that suits your playstyle. Nobody should be forced to go shotgun simply because they like mining, nobody should be forced to go sniper rifle if they like to go looting. If someone wants to go Fortitude and Agility build and specialize in sniper rifle then let them because that's called a marksman

there we go again

 

TFP decided top tier  should be exlusive to looting  .. ideally big  poi and not obtained by sitting in base and they stand behind this decision regardless small and loud group that complaining about that

 

no one is forced to anything ... want  use shotguns ?  sure why not    ... rifle ?   no one is holding you .-.... idea of perks is to specialize into whatever you decide .. if you like pistol and  go full strenght ... its  you who sacrificing pistol perks  for better mining  its classic rpg design .... if you choose to be healer  you simply cant start complaining about  having low damage  can you ? 

 

and while perk tree needs some balancing ... all attributes have its own great perks

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On 9/19/2020 at 11:16 AM, alanea said:

removing choices  unifiing all builds into universal character  equally skilled in everything  ... is actually opposing  course of every RPG

It's laughable what people consider "choices" when they actually mean "illusion of choice" and misrepresent what people actually say. Instead of saying Hello, I can say Hi! making important choice here

On 9/19/2020 at 11:16 AM, alanea said:

classic rpg design

Which classic RPG does not allow an increase in punching damage when you raise your strength? Which classic RPG does not require strength to wield Machine Gun? Breaking new ground here

 

On 9/19/2020 at 11:16 AM, alanea said:

all attributes have its own great perks

as you say nope  just your opinion

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The intent of this thread isn't to argue which skills or traits are stronger or weaker than others, but how to bring Intelligence in-line with other skill-trees and provide as much early-and-late game weapon viability. I don't care about how you use barter or pack mule. That's not important here. 

 

The point is that every single skill-tree in the game has atleast one option for melee weapons, and one option for ranged weapons. 

 

Except intelligence's melee weapons are not available until you're a fair way into your play-through, because they only have one type, and it seems to be steel tier on the loot-table.

And Intelligence's first-grade 'ranged weapon' is actually just a melee weapon, and a bad one. Which is a shame because it's actually cool as hell with it's aestetic and it's knockdown, but it being shoehorned into 'stone tier' means that it's damage has to be comparable to that of... a wooden club. 

It's obviously made of iron at the very least, and should do as much damage as a real sledgehammer. 

 

Shunt the pneumatic sledge over to the melee tree and make it drop when other iron-tier loot drops (and replace it in the ranged tree with a weaker gun-turret?) and you've got the problem half solved. 

Of course, that means putting a robot in the electrocutioner tree, which... 

 

As for my flashlight-tazer suggestion, I wouldn't actually make it require flashlights to be made (too much RNG) I was simply noting that those are objects that could be easily acquirable in the ruined city, and thus something we can easily justify the player-character being able to turn into a taser. 

For actual parts, I'd use a bit of iron, a bit of copper and some electronic parts. Nothing you can't get very early on, if you manage to get your hands on a wrench and take a car apart. 

 

I suppose it doesn't need to be based on a flashlight at all. It could be some non-discernible lump of metal and wires, with two sparking prongs on the end. 

Jab the zombos to make them dance.

Low but continuous damage, only useful for 1v1 fights. Against multiple zombies, your best bet would be to stun each of them and run away before it wears off. 

 

The regular stun baton could be made from pretty much the same stuff (but with forged iron) and be functionally the same weapon as it is now. 

Basically a club with a chance to stun.

 

The steel version should definitely be cooler though. A sword or axe of some sort, with an added electrical threat.

 

 "Electrocutioner" is much too cool a name to waste on some lame-ass 'club that occasionally stuns people' 

I want an executioner's axe that fries you as it decapitates you, or a large spiked mace with lightning flashing from every prong. 

Or just like... a mysterious metal box that you open up and shoot lighting out of. 

 

Steel-tier weapons should look and feel badass

Like the new steel axe. It looks cool as hell

 

The first version of the taser should have the same range as a knife, and the second and third should have proper melee-weapon range. To make getting out of that primitive-age zone feel really satisfying.

Especially if you've got the Repulsor mod on and are sending dudes flying with every hit. 

 

For turrets, I really do like the idea of the flying drone, and the current gun-turret has lots of ammo types (including shotgun, which is a nice change) but we gotta get a 'stone tier' one that actually counts as a gun. Even if it's only a turret-mounted blunderbuss or a baseball-throwing-machine converted to launch rocks. 

It has to be usable at range. 

 

I'm kinda attached to me previous ballista suggestion just because I like the idea of a siege weapon, and the fact that you can 'get in' a shotgun or SMG turret and manually aim and shoot them feels like there's potential there to be explored. Manned Turrets. Mounted Weapons

 

It would also involve a 'stone age' robot not actually being a robot, because obviously having a fully automated self-aiming robot when all of your tools are made out of stone and you're wearing a shirt made out of grass would look weird-af. 

A giant crossbow that you have to climb in and aim yourself would be more fitting. 

 

Of course, if the Stone Age is replaced with a Scrap Age, then the t1 turret could be much easier to come up with. 

Edited by iamnuff (see edit history)

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On 9/20/2020 at 8:26 PM, Raestloz said:

It's laughable what people consider "choices" when they actually mean "illusion of choice" and misrepresent what people actually say. Instead of saying Hello, I can say Hi! making important choice here

illusion of choice?   wake up  there are massive differences between people somne people like me focus on int  building and trading  funny fact  i combine it with rifles and magnum (better barter is completely broken,xp gain  from traps easily pay for self in few blood moons  ..  significantly more resources from forge ?  yes please

 

most people goes strenght with focus on melee/block damage/harvesting

 

significant amount of people also  goes agility way light armor/parkour/stealth

 

if you want buff something its perception (yeah penetrator is nice  .. and lucky looter too but not awesome enought to rush them.... especially when lucky looter got nerfed early )

 

and endurance (  cooking recipes insulation ?  regen ? )  definitely weakest branch

 

nope problem with weapon skills is the fact they offer 30% damage + specific bonus (actually less because youc an take first rank with  0 attribute investment) and thats not really enought to give them strong priority

 

Quote

Which classic RPG does not allow an increase in punching damage when you raise your strength? Which classic RPG does not require strength to wield Machine Gun? Breaking new ground here

actually most of them .... because many rpg  dont use attributes at all  and use perks/talents/skills/abilities per level ... or LBD  some even base stats /abilities entirely on gear

 

but oh wait .. strenght  uunlocks perk that give you more carry weight .... perk that give you more block damage funny  it means that you have to increase strenght to deal more damage to blocks ? gosh ... it does exactly what you want it to do  ... just with additional choice mid way if you really want that perk or spend points somewhere else

 

require strenght ?  also most of them ... usually  weak strenght  with heavy weapons leads to some disadvantages ... like higher recoil  slower movement or decreased damage  but  only if we talk about actual heavy guns .. like miniguns  rocket launchers .. anti material rifles .. flame throwers   smg ?  3kg   ak ?  4 kg even  15y  nerdy  boy handles carrying and using them

maybe that why they are under endurance instead strenght .... because only issue with those is recoil ...  weight is laughtable even for  10y nerdy boy

 

the only heavvy weapons we have  are m60(shouldnt be used from hip at all as far i know its mobile weapon .. but have tripod for actual use)  and rocket launcher(no one rly care about this for fun weapon)

22 hours ago, iamnuff said:

The intent of this thread isn't to argue which skills or traits are stronger or weaker than others, but how to bring Intelligence in-line with other skill-trees and provide as much early-and-late game weapon viability. I don't care about how you use barter or pack mule. That's not important here. 

 

well int only competition early mid and late is strenght ...  so its strongest or second strongest stat in game

 

Quote

The point is that every single skill-tree in the game has atleast one option for melee weapons, and one option for ranged weapons. 

 

Except intelligence's melee weapons are not available until you're a fair way into your play-through, because they only have one type, and it seems to be steel tier on the loot-table.

its iron tier while its t2 weapon its under groupWeaponsT1_Melee avaible after gamestage 10 (3-4 days  max)

probably to not make púeople like you whine about early inacessibility

 

on other side if you werent so ridiculously lazy ... digging or asking around before you start complaining on forums ...  t1 baton is also in game as test

Spoiler


<item name="meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBaton">

    <property name="CreativeMode" value="Test"/>
    <property name="CustomIcon" value="missingIcon"/>

    <property name="Tags" value="melee,grunting,light,perkFlurryOfBlows,weapon,meleeWeapon,attIntellect,perkElectrocutioner,canHaveCosmetic"/>
    <property name="DisplayType" value="melee"/>
    <property name="HoldType" value="58"/>
    <property name="Meshfile" value="#Other/Items?Weapons/Melee/TaserBaton/TaserBatonPrefab.prefab"/>
    <property name="Material" value="MmeleeWpnBatonParts"/> <property name="Weight" value="4"/>
    <property name="RepairTools" value="resourceRepairKit"/>
    <property name="DegradationBreaksAfter" value="false"/>
    <property name="EconomicValue" value="350"/>
    <property name="SoundJammed" value="ItemNeedsRepair"/>
    <property name="SoundDestroy" value="wooddestroy1"/>
    <property name="Group" value="Ammo/Weapons"/>
    <property name="RepairExpMultiplier" value="5.5"/>
    <property name="UnlockedBy" value="perkElectrocutioner,meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBatonSchematic"/>
    <property name="ShowQuality" value="true"/>

    <property class="Action0">
        <property name="Class" value="DynamicMelee"/>
        <property name="Damage_type" value="Slashing"/>
        <property name="Sphere" value=".15"/>   <!-- limit to 0.15, else the sphere cast can overlap the target already -->
        <property name="Sound_start" value="stunbaton_swinglight"/>

        <property name="UseGrazingHits" value="true"/>
        <property name="GrazeStart" value=".25"/>
        <property name="GrazeEnd" value=".32"/>
        <property name="SwingDegrees" value="90"/>
        <property name="SwingAngle" value="90"/>
        <property class="HitSounds">
            <property name="Override0" value="organic" param1="metalhollowhitorganic"/>
        </property>
        <property class="GrazeSounds">
            <property name="Override0" value="organic" param1="metalgrazeorganic"/>
        </property>
    </property>
    <property class="Action1">
        <property name="Class" value="DynamicMelee"/>
        <property name="Damage_type" value="Slashing"/>
        <property name="Sphere" value=".15"/>   <!-- limit to 0.15, else the sphere cast can overlap the target already -->
        <property name="Sound_start" value="stunbaton_swingheavy"/>
        <property name="UsePowerAttackAnimation" value="true"/>

        <property name="UseGrazingHits" value="true"/>
        <property name="GrazeStart" value=".2"/>
        <property name="GrazeEnd" value=".32"/>
        <property name="SwingDegrees" value="65"/>
        <property name="SwingAngle" value="180"/>
        <property class="HitSounds">
            <property name="Override0" value="organic" param1="metalhollowhitorganic"/>
        </property>
        <property class="GrazeSounds">
            <property name="Override0" value="organic" param1="metalgrazeorganic"/>
        </property>
    </property>
    <effect_group name="meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBaton">
        <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="base_set" value="10.8" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/> <!-- meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBaton -->
        <passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="base_set" value="6" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>
        <passive_effect name="AttacksPerMinute" operation="base_set" value="70" tags="perkElectrocutioner,perkFlurryOfBlows"/>
        <passive_effect name="StaminaLoss" operation="base_set" value="11.3" tags="primary"/>
        <passive_effect name="DegradationMax" operation="base_set" value="269,673" tier="1,6" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>
        <passive_effect name="DegradationPerUse" operation="base_set" value="1" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>
        <passive_effect name="MaxRange" operation="base_set" value="2.4" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>
        <passive_effect name="BlockRange" operation="base_set" value="3" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>

        <passive_effect name="ModSlots" operation="base_set" value="1,1,2,2,3,4" tier="1,2,3,4,5,6"/>
        <passive_effect name="ModPowerBonus" operation="perc_add" value=".10" tags="EntityDamage,BlockDamage"/>
        <passive_effect name="ModPowerBonus" operation="base_add" value="300" tags="EconomicValue"/>

        <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="-.15,.15" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/> <!-- random EntityDmg -->
        <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value=".1,.5" tier="2,6" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/> <!-- tier bonus -->
        <passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="perc_add" value="-.15,.15" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/> <!-- random BlockDmg -->
        <passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="perc_add" value=".1,.5" tier="2,6" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/> <!-- tier bonus -->

        <passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="earth"/>
        <passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="stone"/>
        <passive_effect name="DamageModifier" operation="perc_add" value="-.9" tags="metal"/>
        <passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="base_set" value="1" tags="butcherHarvest"/>

        <passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="base_add" value="-.75" tags="allHarvest"/>
        <passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="base_add" value="-.75" tags="allToolsHarvest"/>
        <passive_effect name="HarvestCount" operation="base_add" value="-.75" tags="oreWoodHarvest"/>

        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfEquipStop" action="RemovePart" part="Sparks"/>
    </effect_group>

    <effect_group name="Power Attack">
        <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="1" tags="secondary"/>
        <passive_effect name="BlockDamage" operation="perc_add" value="1" tags="secondary"/>
        <passive_effect name="StaminaLoss" operation="base_set" value="22.6" tags="secondary"/>
    </effect_group>

    <effect_group name="apply damage buff, meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBaton">
        <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="40"/>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfEquipStart" action="AddPart" part="Sparks" prefab="ItemModEffects/baton_electricityPrefab" parentTransform="Handle" localPos="0,0,0" localRot="0,0,0"/>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="Ragdoll" target="other" duration="2.5" force="200">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffmodMeleeStunBatonRepulsor"/>
                <requirement name="!HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
                <requirement name="!EntityTagCompare" target="other" tags="trader"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="Ragdoll" target="other" duration="2.5" force="200">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffmodMeleeStunBatonRepulsor"/>
                <requirement name="!HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
                <requirement name="!EntityTagCompare" target="other" tags="trader"/>
            </triggered_effect>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="Ragdoll" target="otherAOE" range="1.1" target_tags="zombie,animal" duration="2.5" force="200">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffmodMeleeStunBatonRepulsor"/>
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="Ragdoll" target="otherAOE" range="1.1" target_tags="zombie,animal" duration="2.5" force="200">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffmodMeleeStunBatonRepulsor"/>
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
            </triggered_effect>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="AddBuff" target="other" buff="buffShocked"/>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="AddBuff" target="other" buff="buffShocked"/>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="AddBuff" target="otherAOE" range="1.1" target_tags="zombie,animal" buff="buffShocked">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
            </triggered_effect>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="AddBuff" target="otherAOE" range="1.3" target_tags="zombie,animal" buff="buffShocked">
                <requirement name="HasBuff" buff="buffDrugNerdTats"/>
            </triggered_effect>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="RemovePart" part="Sparks"/>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="RemovePart" part="Sparks"/>

            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="set" value="0"/>
            <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="set" value="0"/>
    </effect_group>

<!--
needed?
            <requirement name="ItemHasTags" tags="perkElectrocutioner"/>

            <requirement name="EntityTagCompare" target="other" tags="human,zombie,animal"/>
-->

    <effect_group name="increase charges">
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="add" value="1">
            <requirement name="IsAlive" target="other"/>
        </triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="add" value="2">
            <requirement name="IsAlive" target="other"/>
        </triggered_effect>

        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="add" value="4">
            <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkTechJunkie6BatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="1"/>
            <requirement name="IsAlive" target="other"/>
            <requirement name="RandomRoll" seed_type="Random" min_max="0,100" operation="LTE" value="25"/>
        </triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="add" value="4">
            <requirement name="ProgressionLevel" progression_name="perkTechJunkie6BatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="1"/>
            <requirement name="IsAlive" target="other"/>
            <requirement name="RandomRoll" seed_type="Random" min_max="0,100" operation="LTE" value="50"/>
        </triggered_effect>

        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="AddPart" part="Sparks" prefab="ParticleEffects/p_electric_shock_small" parentTransform="Handle" localPos="0,0,0" localRot="0,0,0">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/>
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="LT" value="40"/>
        </triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="AddPart" part="Sparks" prefab="ParticleEffects/p_electric_shock_small" parentTransform="Handle" localPos="0,0,0" localRot="0,0,0">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/>
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="LT" value="40"/>
        </triggered_effect>

        <!-- the attack that applies the last +1 charge can not immediately trigger the effect -->
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionEnd" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="set" value="40">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/>
        </triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionEnd" action="ModifyCVar" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="set" value="40">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/>
        </triggered_effect>

        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit1">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="0"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit2">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="1"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit3">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="2"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit4">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="3"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfPrimaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit5">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/></triggered_effect>

        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit1">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="0"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit2">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="1"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit3">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="2"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit4">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="3"/></triggered_effect>
        <triggered_effect trigger="onSelfSecondaryActionRayHit" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit5">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="GTE" value="4"/></triggered_effect>

        <!--<triggered_effect trigger="onSelfAttackedOther" action="PlaySound" sound="stunbaton_hit5">
            <requirement name="CVarCompare" cvar="stunBatonCharge" operation="Equals" value="5"/>
        </triggered_effect>-->
    </effect_group>

</item>

Quote

And Intelligence's first-grade 'ranged weapon' is actually just a melee weapon, and a bad one. Which is a shame because it's actually cool as hell with it's aestetic and it's knockdown, but it being shoehorned into 'stone tier' means that it's damage has to be comparable to that of... a wooden club. 

It's obviously made of iron at the very least, and should do as much damage as a real sledgehammer. 

definitely .. acessible from day 1 requiring no recipes resources ammo or stamina .. hiting as  hard as sledge .. with strong knockdown

 

inteligence first grade weapon ... is actually quite nice weapon ... with unmatched knockback  and no stamina use= worst enemy of all melee weapons early with bonus feature to place it on ground and use second gun at once ....  in name of balance rofl

if something ... junk sledge needs severe nerfs

 

actually its nonsense to give it more damage it would be  just another case of breaking physics (it is even now)

when you  punch someone with hand helf weapon  same force should apply to you (and zombies fly away few meters)

holding something even with this power  suddenly punching someone would definitely hurt you  it could made sense at original state .. but not now (even if you ignore the fact that metal thing of this weight would probably prevent you from running) :D

Quote

Shunt the pneumatic sledge over to the melee tree and make it drop when other iron-tier loot drops (and replace it in the ranged tree with a weaker gun-turret?) and you've got the problem half solved. 

Of course, that means putting a robot in the electrocutioner tree, which... 

wow  so they made strong melee turret .. great ranged turret .. and flying laser  turret in one line ? "how ridiculous decision .. what they do next ?  add crappy one shot shotgun just to evolve it into auto shotgun  ?? changing its behaviour so extremely?!"

 

Quote

As for my flashlight-tazer suggestion, I wouldn't actually make it require flashlights to be made (too much RNG) I was simply noting that those are objects that could be easily acquirable in the ruined city, and thus something we can easily justify the player-character being able to turn into a taser. 

For actual parts, I'd use a bit of iron, a bit of copper and some electronic parts. Nothing you can't get very early on, if you manage to get your hands on a wrench and take a car apart. 

yeah well definitely not happening

Quote

I suppose it doesn't need to be based on a flashlight at all. It could be some non-discernible lump of metal and wires, with two sparking prongs on the end. 

Jab the zombos to make them dance.

Low but continuous damage, only useful for 1v1 fights. Against multiple zombies, your best bet would be to stun each of them and run away before it wears off. 

 

The regular stun baton could be made from pretty much the same stuff (but with forged iron) and be functionally the same weapon as it is now. 

Basically a club with a chance to stun.

let me tell you secret
 

Spoiler

 

meleeWpnBatonT1JunkBaton
meleeWpnBatonT2StunBaton (the one we have)
meleeWpnBatonT3PlasmaBaton

 

    <property name="CreativeMode" value="Test"/>
    <property name="CustomIcon" value="missingIcon"/>

 

they clearly testing t1 and t3  baton ....with little different stats but same function  and model

 

 

Quote

"Electrocutioner" is much too cool a name to waste on some lame-ass 'club that occasionally stuns people' 

I want an executioner's axe that fries you as it decapitates you, or a large spiked mace with lightning flashing from every prong. 

Or just like... a mysterious metal box that you open up and shoot lighting out of.

sure how about lightsaber or plasma grenades ...its kinda fits  into level of your ideas

Quote

For turrets, I really do like the idea of the flying drone, and the current gun-turret has lots of ammo types (including shotgun, which is a nice change) but we gotta get a 'stone tier' one that actually counts as a gun. Even if it's only a turret-mounted blunderbuss or a baseball-throwing-machine converted to launch rocks. 

It has to be usable at range. 

yay lets add stone age robotic weapon  ... maybe wind powered automatic rock thrower that recognize zombies from you :D .. maybe held together  by plant fibers and powered by human turd(or actually shot them)  iam sorry but this is just so ridiculous i can only laught

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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Personal play style most important factor in game enjoyment. I personally don't stick to one skill tree. Might not be the most efficient way to build character, but I find it's the most fun. I use sledgehammer in very early game, but recently have found myself leveling up club skills for long term. Like Master Chef 2 or so; along with found recipes reduces hunger stress. Int for forge quickly. Sex-rex at moderate rate of leveling to alleviate all kinds of stamina issues. Bicycle in first few days, sometimes skip motorbike for Motorcycle according to how parts fall and what traders offer. I scatter points all over the place, depending on what i "feel" my character needs to grow into a fully self-actualized survivor. (Like how I fit in baby-boomer psychobabble? I'm 76 years old and have just passed 7d2d 7100 hour mark on iMac. Too bad 7d2d hours spent on PS4 before that sorry state of affairs went Tango Uniform weren't tallied. I'm having fun, TFP. Keep doing what you're doing. )

Edited by IronClaw68
numerical error (see edit history)

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