UPdate 19.1 WHAT DO U DO WITH THE GAME ????? u ruin the GAME !!!!!! STOP IT !!!!!

[th3s0n1c]

31 minutes ago, Kalen said:

The loss in resources would be negligible (2 wood for a wood frame).   And no need to find another way down, after using the blocks to get up, you could just break them to get down and you'll even recoup some of the resources.

you're only accounting for the cost of what it takes to craft a wood frame, I'm talking about having to use wooden blocks instead. That would make the resources (and time) spent go up by a bit (frame = 2 wood -> upgrade with 4 wood. TOtal of 6 wood spent per block and it can even be balanced out to cost like 10 wood per wooden block). 10 wood may not be much, late in the game, but its a fair amount of resources early (if you consider how much time it takes to cut a tree with a stone or iron axe and the repair involved). So if people are still doing nerdpoling with wooden blocks, at least now they are using much more resources and time to do so. Yes, you could recoup some resources by breaking them (as of now, I believe you get 2 wood back per upgraded block), but getting down from a wooden pole you made by breaking the blocks on the way down doesnt give you back all the resources used and also consumes a lot more time than just picking them back up - as it is now. (and thats not accounting for the repairs on the tool used to break them)

So while it may not entirely fix the problem, it will balance it out a lot and postpone abuse.

The other option would be to only allow construction blocks to be placed in LCB'ed areas. Which would require the LCB cost to be changed.. 5 stones for crafting one and become able to nerd pole to the shotgun messiah rooftop is still a piece of cake)

 

[Kalen]

1 minute ago, th3s0n1c said:

you're only accounting for the cost of what it takes to craft a wood frame, I'm talking about having to use wooden blocks instead. That would make the resources (and time) spent go up by a bit (frame = 2 wood -> upgrade with 4 wood. TOtal of 6 wood spent per block and it can even be balanced out to cost like 10 wood per wooden block). 10 wood may not be much, late in the game, but its a fair amount of resources early (if you consider how much time it takes to cut a tree with a stone or iron axe and the repair involved). So if people are still doing nerdpoling with wooden blocks, at least now they are using much more resources and time to do so. Yes, you could recoup some resources by breaking them (as of now, I believe you get 2 wood back per upgraded block), but getting down from a wooden pole you made by breaking the blocks on the way down doesnt give you back all the resources used and also consumes a lot more time than just picking them back up - as it is now. (and thats not accounting for the repairs on the tool used to break them)

So while it may not entirely fix the problem, it will balance it out a lot and postpone abuse.

The other option would be to only allow construction blocks to be placed in LCB'ed areas. Which would require the LCB cost to be changed.. 5 stones for crafting one and become able to nerd pole to the shotgun messiah rooftop is still a piece of cake)

 

So you're advocating removing wood frames from the game?  Then use hay bales which are really easy to make.... unless you want to remove them too?   Or use ladders which will allow you to go up and down.  But really wood blocks wouldn't be an issue.  Even early game wood is easy to acquire.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you're looking at making changes to the game which, at the end of the day, really isn't going to stop the behavior you want it to stop.   So it ends up being wasted effort.

 

I'd also argue that what you're trying to stop isn't something that needs to be stopped.   Would the game really be better if you couldn't pick up blocks?   It would certainly make building more of a pain in the butt.   

[th3s0n1c]

5 minutes ago, Kalen said:

So you're advocating removing wood frames from the game? 

Yes. You can still keep rebar frames, but make them not removable. Same for hay bales.

 

8 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Or use ladders which will allow you to go up and down

Up the cost, no refund on destroy. At least people would be having to put more effort into it.

 

9 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Even early game wood is easy to acquire.

In my scenario you would need 100wood to even make a 10blocks high nerdpole. 100wood is 1 whole tree you have to cut down and is not that fast to get when you only have a stone axe and no points on miner 69er/motherlode. And its a fair amount of resources you're not getting back.

 

12 minutes ago, Kalen said:

at the end of the day, really isn't going to stop the behavior you want it to stop.   So it ends up being wasted effort.

Like I've already stated: it wont stop, but it will balance it out. Much more than how it is right now. It really isnt that much different from balancing out things from late in the game by level/perk gate.

 

21 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I'd also argue that what you're trying to stop isn't something that needs to be stopped.   Would the game really be better if you couldn't pick up blocks?   It would certainly make building more of a pain in the butt.

Yes, I've seen you arguing about why you dont think it's a problem. On how, in fact, you support this mechanic to keep on existing. But I believe the game would be better if you couldnt pick up blocks. Other players believe as well. And other players are on your side. But the point is that even the Devs seem to believe that it's a problematic mechanic. I'm only giving out suggestions on how I think it could be worked on.

And as for how it would be even more of a pain in the butt for building.. that's how it already is when you're using flagstone, glass or wet concrete blocks. Even crafted terrain.

[Kalen]

1 minute ago, th3s0n1c said:

Yes, I've seen you arguing about why you dont think it's a problem. On how, in fact, you support this mechanic to keep on existing. But I believe the game would be better if you couldnt pick up blocks. Other players believe as well. And other players are on your side. But the point is that even the Devs seem to believe that it's a problematic mechanic. I'm only giving out suggestions on how I think it could be worked on.

And as for how it would be even more of a pain in the butt for building.. that's how it already is when you're using flagstone, glass or wet concrete blocks. Even crafted terrain.

No, the devs believe that people rushing to the loot room is a problem.   They've never given any indication that they think that picking up blocks  is a problem.  They've said that they don't think that nerd poling needs to be removed.

 

When I say it impacts building, I mean using frames as scaffolding while you're building. 

 

And you're right, I don't think its a problem.   I don't nerd pole to get to loot rooms... I actually like doing the POIs as intended, but if you (or anyone else) wants to... go for it.  I couldn't care less how you play your game.   I do use nerd poling when I'm building and when I'm mining.

 

 

 

[th3s0n1c]

28 minutes ago, Kalen said:

When I say it impacts building, I mean using frames as scaffolding while you're building. 

And that's why I've suggested incorporating a visual footprint system- or scaffolding - into the game (like many games already do.. usually with a green ghost image). And you can still do that with a whole wooden block. It's only a few wood cost - like you stated yourself.

 

28 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I actually like doing the POIs as intended

So do I. If I were one of the cheesers that do that, I wouldnt be advocating against nerdpoling wtf lol

28 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I do use nerd poling when I'm building and when I'm mining.

With my suggestion, you would still be able to use nerdpoling for those tasks.. it would just cost you a little more. Didnt you state wood is easy to get? Well, there you go.

 

28 minutes ago, Kalen said:

the devs believe that people rushing to the loot room is a problem.   They've never given any indication that they think that picking up blocks  is a problem. 

That's how they rush to the loot room, tho. Because nerd poling is so easy to do with a very low cost and no resource loss.

And then again.. its just one suggestion on how to handle the situation. The key idea is another. Not allowing for block placement when you jump is yet another option.

[Roland]

OMG....all this was already hashed out. I remember almost exact posts as you guys just posted. Nerdpoling is here to stay. lol

[Kalen]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

OMG....all this was already hashed out. I remember almost exact posts as you guys just posted. Nerdpoling is here to stay. lol

Well, hashed out meaning Joel banned the topic from the dev thread.  Not hashed out in the sense that one side convinced the other.   But, uh yeah, I guess thats never going to happen.

[Roland]

hashed out as in everything that can possibly be said about it has been said about it. The latest dismissal by Joel was not the first one and there have been independent threads on this as well in General Discussions. And yes, consensus will never happen.

[alanea]

17 hours ago, RipClaw said:

You have an error in logic here. In order to place an LCB, there must already be an LCB in place that allows this to happen.

From what I've heard so far, the most popular idea is that you need a key to open the reinforced chest at the end of the dungeon. The key can only be found inside the dungeon.

 

i never said there should  be preexisting  lbd ... block plac ing  would  have to be blocked by similar but changed mechanic for like 10 reasons lol

10 hours ago, th3s0n1c said:

I believe the biggest problem with nerdpoling is that you can pick up the blocks after.. it works both going up and going down. If you were to do that with other blocks, at least you would be accepting that you're losing the materials you spent to craft it. And would have to find another way to get down.

I believe they should remove placeable/removeable frames altogether (wooden, iron and rebar). And if the problem is regards mapping out buildings.. introduce a visual footprint system like many games do.

Or have all POI's act like a LCB'ed building (but still breakable). And for you to be able to build in there, you'd have to find the lcb and break it/turn it off (possibly on the final loot room).

nah  picking up blocks  after isnt issue at all people often dont even bother with that 

 

  removable blocks are one of bestf eatures of 7days when it comes to building lol

8 hours ago, th3s0n1c said:

you're only accounting for the cost of what it takes to craft a wood frame, I'm talking about having to use wooden blocks instead. That would make the resources (and time) spent go up by a bit (frame = 2 wood -> upgrade with 4 wood. TOtal of 6 wood spent per block and it can even be balanced out to cost like 10 wood per wooden block). 10 wood may not be much, late in the game, but its a fair amount of resources early (if you consider how much time it takes to cut a tree with a stone or iron axe and the repair involved).

tree is  300 wood and can   be down in like 4-6  hits with iron axe =  easy 1k+ per minute

10 wood is nothing   100  might discourage some people .. but it swould kill utility of wood frames overall