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UPdate 19.1 WHAT DO U DO WITH THE GAME ????? u ruin the GAME !!!!!! STOP IT !!!!!

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15 minutes ago, alanea said:

well those methods are the only reason why crybabies whine about digging ...those "holes in design" gave them effort free way to avoid hordes and now they need to put in atleast minimal effort lets say +-  half day per week  instead few hits with shovel #itkilledgame

Dude... do you label everyone that disagrees with you as "crybabies"?  Cause if so, that says more about you than it does about them.   I'm one of the "crybabies" that don't like digging zombies and it has nothing to do with wanting minimal effort.   

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54 minutes ago, alanea said:

well those methods are the only reason why crybabies whine about digging ...those "holes in design" gave them effort free way to avoid hordes and now they need to put in atleast minimal effort lets say +-  half day per week  instead few hits with shovel #itkilledgame

You have quite a some prejudices against players you don't even know.

 

I don't like the digging zombies either. The reason is that they are responsible for several collapses in my mines. I now use open mines which of course messes up the landscape.

 

I also use underground bases because I get the resources for the construction while digging. And it has a small footprint on the surface so I can use areas that are not really flat. I even built once a base inside a mountain with an tunnel entrance like in some movies.

 

By the way, I never hid from the horde down there. I always had an base on the surface where I fought the zombies. I don't know a single player who ever hid in his underground base from the horde. Even if someone did it, who cares?

 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Kalen said:

Dude... do you label everyone that disagrees with you as "crybabies"?  Cause if so, that says more about you than it does about them.   I'm one of the "crybabies" that don't like digging zombies and it has nothing to do with wanting minimal effort.   

 yes if some people still bring up digging and constantly whine  about it  3  years and 4 alphas later i definitely consider them crybabies ... sometimes check percentage of posts that are literaly just whining about stuff removed in a16 or17 giving  forums pretty bad reputation ... and keepingmost players away from it

 

RipClaw said:

You have quite a some prejudices against players you don't even know.

 

I don't like the digging zombies either. The reason is that they are responsible for several collapses in my mines. I now use open mines which of course messes up the landscape.

 

I also use underground bases because I get the resources for the construction while digging. And it has a small footprint on the surface so I can use areas that are not really flat. I even built once a base inside a mountain with an tunnel entrance like in some movies.

 

By the way, I never hid from the horde down there. I always had an base on the surface where I fought the zombies. I don't know a single player who ever hid in his underground base from the horde. Even if someone did it, who cares?

 

if you didnt used  bedrock bases to avoid hordes .. then it shouldnt touch you ... no idea what mines you have but zombies never spawned in mine

 

.. if you make valid underground base you still can .. zombies dont dig if they can pathfind  through valid entrance .... and they can path some serious distance now

Edited by alanea (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, alanea said:

 yes if some people still bring up digging and constantly whine  about it  3  years and 4 alphas later i definitely consider them crybabies ... sometimes check percentage of posts that are literaly just whining about stuff removed in a16 or17 giving  forums pretty bad reputation ... and keepingmost players away from it

Right now, you're the only one bringing it up....

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3 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Right now, you're the only one bringing it up....

yep  i compared one whiner to anothers ... simply because we read topics like those from them all time

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9 minutes ago, alanea said:

yep  i compared one whiner to anothers ... simply because we read topics like those from them all time

Well, my, unsolicited, advice would be to avoid those threads.   Because your "whining" about their "whining" isn't likely to change anything.

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33 minutes ago, alanea said:

if you didnt used  bedrock bases to avoid hordes .. then it shouldnt touch you ... no idea what mines you have but zombies never spawned in mine

I had these problems with wandering hordes and screamers who heard me working down there in the mine. They started digging and the roof of the mine caved in at some point.

33 minutes ago, alanea said:

.. if you make valid underground base you still can .. zombies dont dig if they can pathfind  through valid entrance .... and they can path some serious distance now

I have tested it in A17. The zombies are lazy. If they have to walk more than 30 blocks to reach the entry they start digging.

 

In some mines I had an extra entrance for the zombies with a shotgun turret. As long as I dug near the entrance it worked fine. But as soon as I got too far away from the entrance they started digging.
That is why I have abandoned the concept of closed mines and now use open mines. The zombies fall in. I shoot them and then continue working.

 

The entrance to my underground base is surrounded by a trench with iron spikes and only accessible via a drawbridge. I also use this area as a garden.

 

27 minutes ago, alanea said:

yep  i compared one whiner to anothers ... simply because we read topics like those from them all time

You can consider any kind of complaint as whining.

 

Whining that you can just drive away from the Horde on a vehicle or that you can even leave the base during the Horde.

Whining that zombies can't dig.

Whining that zombies can't swim.

Whining that stilt bases work.

Whining that nightmare speed is still too slow.

Whining that the Horde ends after 1200 zombies.

 

And yes those were topics in this forum.
 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)

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6 hours ago, Feycat said:

Count me in as another long-term player (since A9 I believe) who likes A19 much better than 16, who hated gun parts and thinks there's zero functional difference between grinding stone axes and killing zombies for xp. 

The only thing better about A16 was the maps, and the fact we could build pillar 25 cage bases to get down and melee zombies in the face. If they broke the pillars, you got swamped, but as long as you kept moving (and repairing) you could survive it. Now zombies swarm one spot and outer walls are useless, so I'm back up to the same thing I have been since I first started playing - solid base with a metal bar overhang, a ramp to get in and out, and my whole crafting base in a "house" on top. I have never once had zombies collapse a solid 8 x 8 block, certainly not enough to get at my stuff or break my base. 
 

I don't know at what difficulty you play, but at 2 or 3 you can have melee cages operating for a looooong time. In my A18 single player game I already had lots of radiated zombies and still was using a melee cage for half the night. I needed to repair from time to time, but it is perfectly viable.

 

Just use double-block walls all around an optimally just a one block wide fighting window made out of poles and your defense can hold up quite some time.

 

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Guys, what is it with the whole "cheese" thing? I cannot fully understand what constitutes a "cheese" base, it seems like there is a threshold of what become "cheese", but it varies from person to person and I even seen a video on YouTube with a description of "No cheese Base", I do not get it.

 

The Fun Pimps give you tools to use, you have the average traps, turrets, buffs and so on. So using these tools in any way to survive would constitute good planning and clever design. If the zombie AI is superzombie enough to detect a 100HP damage in a block with 500 other blocks at 100%, well that would mean they are super zombies with a degree in engineering or something (because this is a ridiculous thing for even humans to notice while being shot at) and you should do what you can to protect your base with that knowledge and if you do so you are just surviving to another day. So the way I see it if you lay out 400 junk turrets and pointing them at a break in the wall that the superzombies have noticed and focus all your firepower at them, you are still playing the game with the tools that The Fun Pimps gave you, this is not a bad thing in my book and I do not understand why this is a bad thing.

 

The game is survival of the fittest and smartest, if you do not use the tools that the game has to offer, saying, well that would be unfair to the zombies, you know,  to take advantage of their clever rotten brains , you will be eaten and lose the game, it make no sense to me. I have died once in the game so far in 77 days, this to me is a testament of playing the game well and if that means taking advantage of the enemies weaknesses well in real life when a group of people want to eat you alive you would not be thinking of how to make it more fair for them.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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Cheese is like an emotion. No two people can experience it exactly the same way, and yet everybody still has some idea what it is.
Cheese is the exact opposite of the feeling you get playing a game that is impossible to beat because either no game mechanic was put in place in order for a player to do so or all game mechanics were perfected with the intent of totally preventing it... or in other words, the feeling you get playing a game that is always possible to beat because at least one broken or overlooked game mechanic exists.
When you feel like you have an advantage because of something that probably shouldn't be possible, it's probably cheese.
When you feel temporary excitement and accomplishment because you are quickly winning doing something unmistakably unintended, but soon realize that the game would be much more satisfying in the long run if you weren't doing it, it's probably cheese.
When you feel disappointed that increasing the difficulty of a game did not increase the challenge in any way because what you normally do is still possible and with minimal increase of effort, it's probably cheese.

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36 minutes ago, bobrpggamer said:

Guys, what is it with the whole "cheese" thing?

Cheese means somebody got upset that you don't spend the same amount of time and effort as they did because they didn't think of doing that
Cheese means somebody got upset that you understood the mechanics of the game and took advantage of it to not die

Cheese means somebody got upset that you used everything in your disposal to not die. You shouldn't do that

Cheese means somebody got upset that you exercised too much freedom in your archictetural project and the zombies haven't been taught to deal with that

Cheese just means you've defeated the game. Now you either restrain yourself or move on

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Cheese is something you judge yourself against but is not something you should judge others by. Everyone's idea of cheese is going to be different.

 

For example, I shall have to remain on A19.0 forevermore as playing with 10 hotbar slots has got to be the stinkiest hunk of Limburger I've ever seen.... ;)

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6 minutes ago, Roland said:

Cheese is something you judge yourself against but is not something you should judge others by. Everyone's idea of cheese is going to be different.

 

For example, I shall have to remain on A19.0 forevermore as playing with 10 hotbar slots has got to be the stinkiest hunk of Limburger I've ever seen.... ;)

You can mod it out, if you don't like it. ;)

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1 minute ago, mr.devolver said:

You can mod it out, if you don't like it. ;)

Screw that! I shouldn't have to mod a game in order to enjoy it!!!

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2 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Cheese is like an emotion. No two people can experience it exactly the same way, and yet everybody still has some idea what it is.
Cheese is the exact opposite of the feeling you get playing a game that is impossible to beat because either no game mechanic was put in place in order for a player to do so or all game mechanics were perfected with the intent of totally preventing it... or in other words, the feeling you get playing a game that is always possible to beat because at least one broken or overlooked game mechanic exists.
When you feel like you have an advantage because of something that probably shouldn't be possible, it's probably cheese.
When you feel temporary excitement and accomplishment because you are quickly winning doing something unmistakably unintended, but soon realize that the game would be much more satisfying in the long run if you weren't doing it, it's probably cheese.
When you feel disappointed that increasing the difficulty of a game did not increase the challenge in any way because what you normally do is still possible and with minimal increase of effort, it's probably cheese.

I can see this being a personal thing that you judge yourself but not something that is a judge of how others play the game, unless they play in god mode and use the creative menu to build a base rather than going out and collecting all the materials they need in game which can take a long time to do otherwise. If they are just experimenting with new features or something like that to make a video to post that make sense of course.

 

I am uploading another video I made that is of an overkill base that has taken me a long time to build, maybe I will see if my method is considered cheese that way. Either way if you use the tools that are available and put the time into building something that will stand the test of time and bloodmoons I do not consider it a negative thing at all even if the choke points in walls make it easier to focus on 500 zombies rushing your base all at one time.

Edited by bobrpggamer (see edit history)
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55 minutes ago, Roland said:

Cheese is something you judge yourself against but is not something you should judge others by

What is this nonsense?   Half the posts on this site would have to be deleted if this were true!  :)

 

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2 minutes ago, bobrpggamer said:

I can see this being a personal thing that you judge yourself but not something that is a judge of how others play the game, unless they play in god mode and use the creative menu to build a base rather than going out and collecting all the materials they need in game which can take a long time to do otherwise. If they are just experimenting with new features or something like that to make a video to post that make sense of course.

Sure. It’s definitely more personal than anything.

I’m not certain that when people judge other people in this forum for using cheese, that it is a personal attack on what that person thinks is fun. I think it’s more of a misguided way to counter when people fail to understand that the majority of the time, the developers will work to remove cheese-inducing elements from the game and prefer to believe that since they find these things fun, that they should remain.

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3 hours ago, bobrpggamer said:

Guys, what is it with the whole "cheese" thing? I cannot fully understand what constitutes a "cheese" base, it seems like there is a threshold of what become "cheese", but it varies from person to person and I even seen a video on YouTube with a description of "No cheese Base", I do not get it.

 

The Fun Pimps give you tools to use, you have the average traps, turrets, buffs and so on. So using these tools in any way to survive would constitute good planning and clever design. If the zombie AI is superzombie enough to detect a 100HP damage in a block with 500 other blocks at 100%, well that would mean they are super zombies with a degree in engineering or something (because this is a ridiculous thing for even humans to notice while being shot at) and you should do what you can to protect your base with that knowledge and if you do so you are just surviving to another day. So the way I see it if you lay out 400 junk turrets and pointing them at a break in the wall that the superzombies have noticed and focus all your firepower at them, you are still playing the game with the tools that The Fun Pimps gave you, this is not a bad thing in my book and I do not understand why this is a bad thing.

 

The game is survival of the fittest and smartest, if you do not use the tools that the game has to offer, saying, well that would be unfair to the zombies, you know,  to take advantage of their clever rotten brains , you will be eaten and lose the game, it make no sense to me. I have died once in the game so far in 77 days, this to me is a testament of playing the game well and if that means taking advantage of the enemies weaknesses well in real life when a group of people want to eat you alive you would not be thinking of how to make it more fair for them.

Are you familiar with those pyramid (high steep blocks) people were using a little while ago? That would be cheese.. the fact that you have some kind of block in the game that allows you to exploit their interaction with zombies differently from how it works for you. In this example, you could run up the aforementioned blocks and get up just fine, while zombies would be forever sliding back down as they tried to climb. Or whatever design keeps the zombies at bay in a loop.

But when you stop to think about it, everything about wooden frames is basically cheese.. like nerdpoling or using them to make steps on the side of walls, to fill voids in POI designs to avoid falling/making a wrong jump. Even the 'wooden frame trick' on doors, that people like Glock9 used to do.

Even the iron bars, at some point, were cheesy.. since you could always shoot through them, but cops's puke wouldnt go through.

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4 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Sure. It’s definitely more personal than anything.

I’m not certain that when people judge other people in this forum for using cheese, that it is a personal attack on what that person thinks is fun. I think it’s more of a misguided way to counter when people fail to understand that the majority of the time, the developers will work to remove cheese-inducing elements from the game and prefer to believe that since they find these things fun, that they should remain.

Well traps are fun in my opinion, that is what makes the game for me now, testing my latest base design every 7 days. I even alt-tabbed and watched a movie just to bring the bloodmoon because I was bored and had everything ready for 2 days and got sick of waiting.

3 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

Are you familiar with those pyramid (high steep blocks) people were using a little while ago? That would be cheese.. the fact that you have some kind of block in the game that allows you to exploit their interaction with zombies differently from how it works for you. In this example, you could run up the aforementioned blocks and get up just fine, while zombies would be forever sliding back down as they tried to climb. Or whatever design keeps the zombies at bay in a loop.

But when you stop to think about it, everything about wooden frames is basically cheese.. like nerdpoling or using them to make steps on the side of walls, to fill voids in POI designs to avoid falling/making a wrong jump. Even the 'wooden frame trick' on doors, that people like Glock9 used to do.

Even the iron bars, at some point, were cheesy.. since you could always shoot through them, but cops's puke wouldnt go through.

I am guilty of over-using wood frames in POis and to scale my walls at my base, but even though I know it is ridiculous in real life to do such a thing I will keep doing it because the devs have yet to take that exploit out.

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8 hours ago, Kalen said:

Well, my, unsolicited, advice would be to avoid those threads.   Because your "whining" about their "whining" isn't likely to change anything.

you are right ... TFP  decided how game should look and no mount of crying around will return back lbd remove diging or allow us avoid  hordes in gyro  / 4x4 and my arguing  with them is completely wasted time  (apart of amusement over people who say fdealing with hordes or demos is not possible or hard LoL?) because as i said 1) nothing will change 2) they will be here still crying/complaining/saying it kills game/demanding change even during alpha20 21 ....  237

8 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I had these problems with wandering hordes and screamers who heard me working down there in the mine. They started digging and the roof of the mine caved in at some point.

I have tested it in A17. The zombies are lazy. If they have to walk more than 30 blocks to reach the entry they start digging.

 

In some mines I had an extra entrance for the zombies with a shotgun turret. As long as I dug near the entrance it worked fine. But as soon as I got too far away from the entrance they started digging.
That is why I have abandoned the concept of closed mines and now use open mines. The zombies fall in. I shoot them and then continue working.

 

The entrance to my underground base is surrounded by a trench with iron spikes and only accessible via a drawbridge. I also use this area as a garden.

 

You can consider any kind of complaint as whining.

 

Whining that you can just drive away from the Horde on a vehicle or that you can even leave the base during the Horde.

Whining that zombies can't dig.

Whining that zombies can't swim.

Whining that stilt bases work.

Whining that nightmare speed is still too slow.

Whining that the Horde ends after 1200 zombies.

hmmm ... i always make entrance to mine inside base .. and screamers path to my base even  100 blocks away actually going after forge not me ... roamers never noticed me   10+ blocks under ground  if i dig near surface they got mad ... but never made any damage / holes

 

whining  is complaining about   game change  several alphas later when its  101%  sure  its not gonna be changed and its long  forgotten past its like people in real world who still refuse to accept results  of world  war or independence of usa on england  or even slavery abolition... and loudly scream around and demand change   some people are just triggered  by certain things and freeze stuck on some topics while majority move forward

3 hours ago, bobrpggamer said:

Guys, what is it with the whole "cheese" thing? I cannot fully understand what constitutes a "cheese" base, it seems like there is a threshold of what become "cheese", but it varies from person to person and I even seen a video on YouTube with a description of "No cheese Base", I do not get it.

 

The Fun Pimps give you tools to use, you have the average traps, turrets, buffs and so on. So using these tools in any way to survive would constitute good planning and clever design. If the zombie AI is superzombie enough to detect a 100HP damage in a block with 500 other blocks at 100%, well that would mean they are super zombies with a degree in engineering or something (because this is a ridiculous thing for even humans to notice while being shot at) and you should do what you can to protect your base with that knowledge and if you do so you are just surviving to another day. So the way I see it if you lay out 400 junk turrets and pointing them at a break in the wall that the superzombies have noticed and focus all your firepower at them, you are still playing the game with the tools that The Fun Pimps gave you, this is not a bad thing in my book and I do not understand why this is a bad thing.

 

well  pimps  have idea how  should game look  what mechanics it should have and what options players should have to deal with those mechanics but  no game is perfect  especially in alphas so people from time to time find  bug/unfinished stuff  and abuse it like cheat  making game ridiculously easy

 

usually bugs get fixed over time (ai) or system gets more "finished" (zombies learned to jump and digater it was promised several alphas as planned behavior)

 

but imagine finding game bug that allow  you fly over map in seconds  or stack gun damage to  999999... its awesome right ? then some evil developer fix bug and spoil fun what most people do ?  move along  accepting it was never meant to happen and ruining game

 

what 1% people do ? go spam forum with topics demanding to return it to original state ...   blackmailing devs  saying game will die  if they dont  ... trashtalking every new version with added "my favorite alpha was best  this one is trash"

even several years after

 

sure zombie block damage isnt ideal ...on other side withou stacked bonus damage big group of zombies take ridiculously long to destroy blocks in old alphas 1 row concrete wall  could hold  back horde most of night

because zombies alone dont deal that much  block damage  ...and they didnt  focus one point as well considering concrete block is less than  1  hit  with pickaxe they needed to add up ...  its alittle overkill .. but not as  bad as people make it look .... few layers of concrete will still hold you safe  from horde night and you wont spend more than few  days of 8th day to fix  damage they  did  ... it also kinda makes sense that zombies see other zombies punching place and joins them

 

hp detection is basically must  in

a16  zombies  punched anything  between you and them even if tyhey could walk around in

a17 you could make zombie walk  50  blocks   maze because you were behind wooden frame  .. they have use

a18 had similar issue .. just willing to walk little shorter way to avoid it 

 

there must be some mechanic to tell ai when walk around and when punch through  ,, and ofc  aim for week spot ( zombie punching concrete wall  with "doors"  made ou of wood frames makes no sense as well

 

overall cheesing is finding bug that allow  you cheat some system in game    usually turning it to ridiculously easy

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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4 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

Are you familiar with those pyramid (high steep blocks) people were using a little while ago? That would be cheese.. the fact that you have some kind of block in the game that allows you to exploit their interaction with zombies differently from how it works for you. In this example, you could run up the aforementioned blocks and get up just fine, while zombies would be forever sliding back down as they tried to climb. Or whatever design keeps the zombies at bay in a loop.

But when you stop to think about it, everything about wooden frames is basically cheese.. like nerdpoling or using them to make steps on the side of walls, to fill voids in POI designs to avoid falling/making a wrong jump. Even the 'wooden frame trick' on doors, that people like Glock9 used to do.

Even the iron bars, at some point, were cheesy.. since you could always shoot through them, but cops's puke wouldnt go through.

That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

I personally don't find any of those cheesy, except *maybe* the steep blocks.   

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10 hours ago, Kalen said:

Dude... do you label everyone that disagrees with you as "crybabies"?  Cause if so, that says more about you than it does about them.   I'm one of the "crybabies" that don't like digging zombies and it has nothing to do with wanting minimal effort.   

Be careful. If you dislike alanea insulting people for having different views on the path of the game, he may drop a dislike bomb on you like I just got. I had 9 notifications of dislikes on various posts, all made within minutes of each other. I guess it was a carpet bombing. I'm still reeling from the impact. Honestly, when people start using the crying, whining and other personal attacks, I just stop reading their post and give a thumbs down. Out of curiosity, if people who like the changes are free to insult people who don't, is the term fanboy back on the table?

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3 minutes ago, alanea said:

you are right ... TFP  decided how game should look and no mount of crying around will return back lbd remove diging or allow us avoid  hordes in gyro  / 4x4 and my arguing  with them is completely wasted time  (apart of amusement over people who say fdealing with hordes or demos is not possible or hard LoL?) because as i said 1) nothing will change 2) they will be here still crying/complaining/saying it kills game/demanding change even during alpha20 21 ....  237

There you go.... good approach.   Just ignore them.... attacking people with different opinions just makes you look bad.  Better to challenge their opinions than to name call.

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15 hours ago, Kalen said:

I personally don't find any of those cheesy, except *maybe* the steep blocks.

Seriously. Zombies can't place blocks at all. So every thing we do (presuming we place at least one block in furtherance of our goals) is using blocks differently from zombies. If the survivor notices zombies have trouble climbing a block (or a ladder), or opening a door, or navigating a tunnel which opens 50 blocks away, it is incumbent upon the survivor to take all advantage of that knowledge to survive! Blow your "cheese" out a junk turret, internet!

 

(There is a meta-game here which is us players vs. TFP. I'm glad that they fixed the wedge thing, not because it prevents "cheese", but because they upped their game a bit. I'm like, "FINE, let's see what you do about THIS NEW THING HA HA!" [Boidster dies almost immediately])

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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20 minutes ago, bobrpggamer said:

I am guilty of over-using wood frames in POis and to scale my walls at my base, but even though I know it is ridiculous in real life to do such a thing I will keep doing it because the devs have yet to take that exploit out.

And I do it too because its easier. But I do hope they remove this mechanic from the game, at some point. They even said they intend to. Maybe using a footprint system, instead.

15 minutes ago, Kalen said:

That's just like, your opinion, man.

I've got the reference.

Edited by th3s0n1c
First half of the post disappeared. (see edit history)
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