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No goal in sight


Baxitus

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Hi, I have a question.

 

What is the motivating factor behind this game? What are you working towards? What is the goal of the game - besides just "surviving"? I've played the game several times (almost 70 hours in total), but I stop every time because I don't see a big goal at the end. I have all the time the feeling that everything I do leads up nowhere.

 

At Subnautica you have to flee the planet. You have to find your child at The Forest. You have to find your wife at Green Hell. What about 7 days to die?

 

I like the game itself very much. It's fun to explore the world. It's exciting to explore PIOs. The world is really pretty and looks totally organic and natural. But similar to Minecraft, I'm always demotivated very quickly because the big final goal that you played through the game is missing.

 

What is your motivation to play the game?

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In MP it´s building. A lot. Useless stuff that looks nice and a different horde base every 2 weeks.

 

In SP i barely play longer than day 50. Playing dead is dead in SP, with a different approach when it comes to skills, weapons and settings used everytime. 

 

There is a storyline to come in this game also. The Duke and his bandits vs Noah and the white river citizens. We will not get this before the game is fully completed tough.

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There will be a goal in the final version of the game (according to TFP) where you will usually join one of two factions and eventually kill the leader of the rival faction. I don't know if it will make much difference for replayability though.

In Factorio for example the goal is ignored by most players after they reached it once. But factorio has other implicit end goals like building mega-factories.

In Subnautica there is an endgoal but I haven't heard people replay it that much (or am I wrong?). Probably because of following the story is the main motivation, which doesn't work anymore after you know it.

In 7D2D an endgoal could work though. Either as the thing you do once you want to restart or as a very difficult quest that needs top gear (<- I foresee a balancing nightmare)

 

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25 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

In MP it´s building. A lot. Useless stuff that looks nice and a different horde base every 2 weeks.

 

In SP i barely play longer than day 50. Playing dead is dead in SP, with a different approach when it comes to skills, weapons and settings used everytime. 

 

There is a storyline to come in this game also. The Duke and his bandits vs Noah and the white river citizens. We will not get this before the game is fully completed tough.

This is also my problem in Minecraft, for example. The goal is to build things. Lots of useless things. I want every improvement to feel like progress - every better piece of equipment, every player level, every skill point, and every area explored to bring me closer to a goal. Why else should I build, level and explore?

I also don't want it to end in an endless endgame. A clearly defined ultimate goal is the only thing that makes me not cancel a game after a short time. And it's just a shame that there's so much potential in the game that just feels useless.

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52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

There will be a goal in the final version of the game (according to TFP) where you will usually join one of two factions and eventually kill the leader of the rival faction. I don't know if it will make much difference for replayability though.

In Factorio for example the goal is ignored by most players after they reached it once. But factorio has other implicit end goals like building mega-factories.

In Subnautica there is an endgoal but I haven't heard people replay it that much (or am I wrong?). Probably because of following the story is the main motivation, which doesn't work anymore after you know it.

In 7D2D an endgoal could work though. Either as the thing you do once you want to restart or as a very difficult quest that needs top gear (<- I foresee a balancing nightmare)

 

I actually haven't played Subnautica more than once. I played through it and had an exciting, scary and immersive VR experience. I had a great time with the product and I am happy with it. Why is it always necessary for players to play a game multiple times? On the contrary: I think it's good to play through a game and then finish it. And if you have fun playing it through several times, you are welcome to do it. If you would like an endless game, you can simply ignore the goal of the game (see Factorio).

With a game that you buy once and where there is no greedy subscription model or microtransactions, I don't see any reason behind the obligation to keep the players playing the game for as long as possible.

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10 minutes ago, Baxitus said:

I actually haven't played Subnautica more than once. I played through it and had an exciting, scary and immersive VR experience. I had a great time with the product and I am happy with it. Why is it always necessary for players to play a game multiple times? On the contrary: I think it's good to play through a game and then finish it. And if you have fun playing it through several times, you are welcome to do it. If you would like an endless game, you can simply ignore the goal of the game (see Factorio).

With a game that you buy once and where there is no greedy subscription model or microtransactions, I don't see any reason behind the obligation to keep the players playing the game for as long as possible.

Well, you are neither obligated to play 7D2D more than once 😉.  Whatever the end-goal will be I'm sure players can simply decide to continue playing, so everyone gets what he wants.

 

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An idea I would find cool in 7dtd: Finding a cure that will immunize survivors and kill zombies.

 

Since this cannot be done alone, the player has to build a base and find survivors who then have to be quartered in the base. Scientists, mechanics, engineers and so on. One has to ensure food and water supplies for the people of the base and provide defense. If you find survivors in POIs, you are put into a moral conflict as to whether you take them in, but also increase the food you need, or whether you leave them to their fate. Rejected survivors could even form a group that attacks the base from time to time and always grows a little bit if you reject survivors again.

 

For the research and production of the vaccine it is necessary to obtain laboratory equipment and other equipment. For example, if a scientist needs a certain item in order to achieve further progress, he will tell you that and where to find something like that. Over time you have to explore bigger and more difficult POIs in order to find the items you are looking for.

 

There could also be other little stories. A scientist's family is locked up in a POI and he won't go back to work until you save the family. Or a tissue sample from a particularly strong zombie is required because it contains information without which research cannot proceed. This can be found in a certain POI.

 

In the course of time you have to build the base more and more. Set up a laboratory, a production facility for the vaccine, living space for admitted survivors and facilities to provide basic services to the residents.

 

As soon as the research of the vaccine is done and the production plant is up and running, an end sequence comes and you have finished the game.

 

I think that would be a plausible and motivating goal: D

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4 hours ago, Baxitus said:

This is also my problem in Minecraft, for example.

There will hopefully be more plot & concrete goals added to the game, but it may be that open-sandbox games just aren't really your cup of tea. I've played probably 3,000 hours of Minecraft (and 2,000+ of 7D2D) because both of them scratch an itch for me, I guess. Minecraft has the advantage of nearly infinite (how big is your hard drive?) worlds with vast underground and otherworldly landscapes to explore. There is the Ender Dragon to defeat as a sort of goal, but in all my hours I have only been to the End like two or three times. Never killed the dragon. I've spent hundreds of hours underground exploring caverns though, or painstakingly breeding and training villagers to get a "full set" of librarians. Not so I could get to the dragon; just because I wanted to.

 

7D2D trades vast underground caverns and chasms for hundreds (thousands, with mods) of POIs to explore, and ever-more-difficult hordes to survive weekly(-ish). But it could use an Ender Dragon-type goal, for people who want to progress along a plot. Defeat The Duke or whatever, it sounds fine. But for my own enjoyment, "survive as long as you can" works just fine as a motivator. That's not going to work for everybody of course.

 

Until they give us a plot, make some goals for yourself. Find one of those 3-story busted out buildings and completely renovate it into a workable standard tower horde base. Clear out the rubble, replace the pillars and walls with fresh concrete. Build a bridge escape route (or a tunnel!) to the building across the street. Add electric lights and fences and turrets. Or find every trader on the map by hand, not using the trader-to-trader quests. Maybe get at least a bicycle first or it's a lot of walking!

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I add end game in my runs by upping the difficulty through out it. Like every week up the difficulty by one, up the blood moon count, up the run speed, lower the loot %, disable loot respawn, bump it to blood moons every night/2 nights. By day 28 I'm on insane, 32 spawning (64 is a bit laggy for me sometimes lol), all nightmare speed, loot% lowest, no loot respawn, no air drops, etc. If my base survives GG; if not, I'll turn blood moons on every night with 20 min 24 hour cycles and go until the base fails and I die. Then it's new world time :)

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That's another interesting difference between MC and 7D2D. In MC I almost never want to restart a game because so much work goes into getting things working. By the time I've got a few mob farms and a village working, a rail network in the overworld and Nether, I'm really attached to the world.

 

7D2D I don't have too much issue with restarting every 50-100 in-game days. I mean, when it goes gold I suppose I'll try to see if I can make 100 hordes or some thing like that, but at the moment once I get a horde base which is pretty robust at the Demolisher level (but not like 100% glowies), I'm pretty okay with starting over. And it's still fun the next go around.

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Darkness Falls Mod. I can't even play vanilla anymore.

 

 But I see the OPs point.  

 

Might be cool to have a way to "Beat" each biome.  Maybe some crazy big zombie boss attacks you on random hoard nights or something. A different boss for each biome.  So you'd have to build a base in each biome. After you defeat all the bosses, then a new map opens up. 

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3 hours ago, Baxitus said:

An idea I would find cool in 7dtd: Finding a cure that will immunize survivors and kill zombies.

 

Since this cannot be done alone, the player has to build a base and find survivors who then have to be quartered in the base. Scientists, mechanics, engineers and so on. One has to ensure food and water supplies for the people of the base and provide defense. If you find survivors in POIs, you are put into a moral conflict as to whether you take them in, but also increase the food you need, or whether you leave them to their fate. Rejected survivors could even form a group that attacks the base from time to time and always grows a little bit if you reject survivors again.

 

For the research and production of the vaccine it is necessary to obtain laboratory equipment and other equipment. For example, if a scientist needs a certain item in order to achieve further progress, he will tell you that and where to find something like that. Over time you have to explore bigger and more difficult POIs in order to find the items you are looking for.

 

There could also be other little stories. A scientist's family is locked up in a POI and he won't go back to work until you save the family. Or a tissue sample from a particularly strong zombie is required because it contains information without which research cannot proceed. This can be found in a certain POI.

 

In the course of time you have to build the base more and more. Set up a laboratory, a production facility for the vaccine, living space for admitted survivors and facilities to provide basic services to the residents.

 

As soon as the research of the vaccine is done and the production plant is up and running, an end sequence comes and you have finished the game.

 

I think that would be a plausible and motivating goal: D

I like this idea. You could even add to it as being given to switch to different characters, obviously in sp, so you have one character as a gatherer, another as a builder, hunter etc. I know this isn't an option but it would be cool. 

 

I'm one of those players that loves the early game. I have about 2.5k hours with 7D2D and it's my go to game. I'd love a "random" button when you are creating the game so you go in with no idea of what you are about to face. 

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7 hours ago, Baxitus said:

Hi, I have a question.

 

What is the motivating factor behind this game? What are you working towards? What is the goal of the game - besides just "surviving"? I've played the game several times (almost 70 hours in total), but I stop every time because I don't see a big goal at the end. I have all the time the feeling that everything I do leads up nowhere.

 

At Subnautica you have to flee the planet. You have to find your child at The Forest. You have to find your wife at Green Hell. What about 7 days to die?

 

I like the game itself very much. It's fun to explore the world. It's exciting to explore PIOs. The world is really pretty and looks totally organic and natural. But similar to Minecraft, I'm always demotivated very quickly because the big final goal that you played through the game is missing.

 

What is your motivation to play the game?

I have played all 3 of the games mentioned. They are great games. Subnautica in particular is a great game, beautifully done progression system.  Probably one of the best games ever for a well designed progression system.

 

However, none of those games really have any meaningful replay value because the map is always the same and the game mechanics are too tied to the story. Once  you know the story and map, the challenge is gone. 

 

Where as with 7D2D the procedurally generated maps is what keeps folks playing for thousand+ hours. I do hope 7D2D eventually puts in a win condition(escape to civilization and/or a virus cure IMHO) and a small story.

 

What I do in 7D2D to keep striving for something in game is to keep progressing the difficulty as the days go on. After every blood moon horde, increase the difficulty of one  setting.  Start a game with easier settings (nomad, 18 hours days, 90 minute play time days, 50% blood moon block damage, 100% loot, etc), then increase(or decreased depending) at least one of these after every blood moon.

 

 

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For me 7D2D is one of those "what you make of it" games, at least as it currently exists and has existed since I started playing in 2014. I don't see this as a bad thing. I've played a ludicrous amount of Minecraft since 2010, and have also played Subnautica, and The Forest. In all those games, even those with a definitive endpoint, for me the daily life (so to speak) was the most enjoyable part of the entire experience. In The Forest especially my friends and I enjoyed the build up to the end immensely more than the end itself.

While it's true 7D2D has no true "end" it also has the benefit of being amazingly customizable. As mentioned I've been playing since 2014 and am only beginning to scratch the surface of how much you can do in this game if you're willing just crack open a few files. Even a dum-dum like me can do it thanks to the way TFP have structured the files. For my friends and I we've learned that we really enjoy making 7D2D as crushingly difficult as possible. We thrive on the oppressive difficulty where finding one good item is basically the holy grail between several days of getting mercilessly slaughtered and hoping you manage to eek out 1 single skill point before maxing out those red XP bars again. This isn't meant to be a boast, make no mistake I am not a great player, I die a lot, and we frequently can go an entire session with essentially no progression. But that's what's fun to us, that's the platform 7D2D gives us. It's by no means the only way to play and with 7D2D the only "wrong" way to play is the one that doesn't interest you.

The thing is, I get what you're saying. I'm not attacking your preferences or saying you're wrong. However I would suggest that you think a bit more about how you can tailor 7D2D to create an experience that's more to your liking. For instance there are all sorts of challenges you could impose on yourself either via in-game decisions, in-game options, or editing some files, and then if you don't like self-imposed challenges, try some of the many, many mods. Yes, there is no official built-in cinematic end, but I don't think that means there aren't grand goals to establish for yourself within the world of 7D2D, it is again, just what you make of it.

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1 hour ago, fragtzack said:

They are great games. Subnautica in particular is a great game, beautifully done progression system.

I gotta give this game another shot. I got so tired of chasing down fish just so I wouldn't thirst to death and I never seemed to have enough non-hunting time to really explore. And with no weapons to speak of, the little salt fish or whatever they are that explode in your face can be devastating. And the big gar-looking fish around the kelp forests.

 

Everybody loves that game; I gotta give it another try before I conclude something is wrong with me. 🙂 Well, something else I mean...

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3 hours ago, Boidster said:

That's another interesting difference between MC and 7D2D. In MC I almost never want to restart a game because so much work goes into getting things working. By the time I've got a few mob farms and a village working, a rail network in the overworld and Nether, I'm really attached to the world.

I would've stopped playing minecraft years ago if it wasn't for the mods.   The mods available for that game are remarkable.... many of them completely change the way the game is played.

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1 hour ago, Kalen said:

I would've stopped playing minecraft years ago if it wasn't for the mods.   The mods available for that game are remarkable.... many of them completely change the way the game is played.

MC has changed drastically in the last few years, I took a break from it for a long time, and came back to a seriously different game. My wife and I used to build entire cities for the server we ran. Hell, we even got into making our own high-res texture packs. When we stopped playing we were using a number of mods, but when we started playing again we didnt feel the need, because there was so much new content.

 

And the amount of time we spent in MC pales in comparison to the time we have spent in 7DtD. We love this game like no other, because it is like no other.

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MC Bedrock is a broke-ass game right now, so my 7D2D hours are rapidly catching up. No desire to go back to MC until they fix the 3-year-old bug which just >poofs< all yer villagers and animals. I'll take magical zombie spawns and occasionally-broken SI any day over that crap.

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35 minutes ago, Boidster said:

MC Bedrock is a broke-ass game right now, so my 7D2D hours are rapidly catching up. No desire to go back to MC until they fix the 3-year-old bug which just >poofs< all yer villagers and animals. I'll take magical zombie spawns and occasionally-broken SI any day over that crap.

Ah, I play MC Java

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I'm pretty good with amusing myself, and I tend to do that in every game I play regardless of the game's goals, but that's what I love about this game, is that it has tools for us to really make of it what we want.  I love building, especially when I can share it with others.  My personal goal in 7D2D is to build a world that recreates a lot of my favorite settings and then play in them, fix them up/rebuild/ and defend them.  Places like Waterdeep from the Forgotten Realms setting, and Stardew Valley, are examples of settings I really want to recreate (or at least pay homage to) and then play in with my friends.  Something about seeing a dear setting come to life, but to be in complete shambles, to make the player ask "omg what happened here???" seems like such a cool idea to me.  

 

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4 minutes ago, Outlaw_187 said:

Yeah nice try Roland. I actually tried this on console. I mean I lit up the sky....and.. nothing. 😔

Oof..awkward. That was actually in that last partially done update that never released from Telltale....

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14 hours ago, Baxitus said:

This is also my problem in Minecraft, for example. The goal is to build things. Lots of useless things. I want every improvement to feel like progress - every better piece of equipment, every player level, every skill point, and every area explored to bring me closer to a goal. Why else should I build, level and explore?

I also don't want it to end in an endless endgame. A clearly defined ultimate goal is the only thing that makes me not cancel a game after a short time. And it's just a shame that there's so much potential in the game that just feels useless.

there is no goal in sandbox games ... it canbe added later but it wont play major role anyway

you can easily say  most developer time is spent on  hundreds of poi often with "dirty secrets"  like giant labs deep under  ... or mines ...  shelters sacrificial rooms full of bodies ... not to mention pois  have many hidden spots if you look around  you are almost always rewarded   by some  hidden loot container

 

its basically game about exploring those hundreds of poi filled with zeds  progressing by looting to top stuff

just like in the forest you start rather weak and hunted  scared of wolf  or feral  leveling and gearing up   until you actually hunt even the most dangerous zombies as unstopable predator

 

as fill system you have

1) complete freedom in building/changing terrain (not to the point of minecraft as massive structures /moving hills take alot more effort  but  you can still comfortably build any base you want

2)quests encouraging you to clear specific poi /dig map

3) blood moons challenging you every  7th day encouraging you to build defenses and prepare for  hordes overall

 

so whats  goal in a19 ? 1) max gear 2)chase all magazines(bonus perks from loot)  3)build well defended base 4)start big enought farm to never starve 5) level up 6)  become hunter instead prey

 

8 hours ago, fragtzack said:

Subnautica in particular is a great game, beautifully done progression system.  Probably one of the best games ever for a well designed progression system.

you have to be joking :D subnautica truly is beautifull game ... but one that can be finished  in  3/4  hour .... if you are slowpoke progression literaly doesnt exist at all  you can get anything you want within minutes if you know where it is

subnautica is all about exploration .. so many different biomes .. creatures .. wrecks ... lore pdas...

 

main storyline quickly become secondaryto filling your own aquarium in  huge base :D

 

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