Tool More Tiers Of Equipment

[TheStorySmith]

Recently there has been a lot of discussion of the new loot system, and although I agree game progression was way too fast before; I also agree that it is extremely disappointing and odd to find a bunch of stone tools in sealed end of dungeon crates.

 

Locking the player out of progression from looting in the early game makes looting feel like more trouble than it ends up being worth.

I think a better solution would be to have a few new tiers of loot progression to pad out the process of getting to the end of the tech tree without losing the feeling of finding better equipment during the early game.

 

I'm sure this is planned but I thought I would give my 2 cents.

 

Tier List:

Stone:

As it currently is.

 

Cheap:

Basically the dollar store brand of Iron Tools. They do 5-10% Less damage than Iron of the same level, but have 50% less durability. Scraps to Plastic or Iron.

Would also include a 'Practice Bow' which would do less damage than the full bow but more than the starter bow. Would scrap to plastic or a single Bow Part.

This tier would also include the planned pipe pistol and rifle.

Maybe it shouldn't be craftable, due to iron being much better (With the exception of the weapons).

 

Iron:

As it currently Is.

 

Professional Iron: (Maybe Hardened Iron as a name?)

It would have a cleaner look (Less Rusty), would have 10-30% more durability and 5-10% more damage than regular Iron Tools of the same level.

 

Steel:

As it currently is.

 

Professional Steel: (Maybe Blue-Steel as a name?)

Cleaner Look, 15-30% more Durability and 10-15% more damage than regular steel tools of same level.

 

Mechanized Tools:

As it is currently.

 

 

[Linkdark]

Good idea for the new Steel 

 

Why not add Bronze and Copper? It'll be more easy to make, and could add one more ore to the game  (Get inspiration from bronze working from Civ game  ) 

 

Add Copper as a ore

Copper + Tin = Bronze.

 

Copper tool and Bronze Tool (Dark Orange for the first and Dark emeraude for the second?)

Stone / Copper / Bronze /Iron etc

 

[TheStorySmith]

1 hour ago, Linkdark said:

Good idea for the new Steel 

 

Why not add Bronze and Copper? It'll be more easy to make, and could add one more ore to the game  (Get inspiration from bronze working from Civ game  ) 

 

Add Copper as a ore

Copper + Tin = Bronze.

 

Copper tool and Bronze Tool (Dark Orange for the first and Dark emeraude for the second?)

Stone / Copper / Bronze /Iron etc

 

I like the idea of a new ore, though we could potentially use Brass since it's already in the game.

[Linkdark]

I would prefer to use Tin than Brass.

Bc to make real Bronze, u need Tin and Copper.

But it's Fun Pimps who'll decide at the end.

[Gazz]

So what would be the reason for having these extra tiers?

Split the existing damage range from T0 - T3 into more and smaller buckets?

[Tmodloader]

12 minutes ago, Gazz said:

So what would be the reason for having these extra tiers?

Split the existing damage range from T0 - T3 into more and smaller buckets?

Power tier partially exists but isnt fleshed out

Basically give melee t0-t3 as well I'd say is better than adding completely new ones

That'd be a good reason for extra tiers, right now most melee is only t0-t2 and only tools have t3 with power tools

[TheStorySmith]

2 hours ago, Gazz said:

So what would be the reason for having these extra tiers?

Split the existing damage range from T0 - T3 into more and smaller buckets?

2 hours ago, Tmodloader said:

Power tier partially exists but isnt fleshed out

Basically give melee t0-t3 as well I'd say is better than adding completely new ones

That'd be a good reason for extra tiers, right now most melee is only t0-t2 and only tools have t3 with power tools

It would mostly be to address the big complaint with the current loot system being unrewarding early on.

Essentially it would give the player an available upgrade in early game without handing them Iron tools, which are a huge step up from stone.

 

It would allow the developers to still keep their goal of extending the early game, while giving players the satisfaction of finding better tools and weapons in loot.

Basically extending the early game without stopping progression entirely.

 

The tools of the 'cheap' tier have a vastly lower durability, encouraging players to still use their stone tools for the majority of uses while keeping their 'cheap' tools for special occasions where speed is important.

 

The weapons of that tier would be a bit more damaging, a bit more accuracy and a bit less durability as well.

[Linkdark]

Yeah i agree with "The Story Smith" 

For those @%$*#! tier "Stone to Bronze" u could make them broke, without possibility of repair. And keep repairing gameplay for iron and Steel.

To make them more important tier 

[Teacyn]

I think a big chunk of the tier issue is that Stone -> Iron isn't a very large jump, but Iron -> Steel is such a massive jump that even a l1 steel tool with a bad stat roll is usually better than a l4-5 iron tool.

 

You can pretty comfortably continue using stone tools until you're finding tier 3 and 4 iron tools in loot and you're not missing anything. A level 6 stone shovel outperforms almost any iron shovel below level 5 or 6. The level 6 stone axe is substantially more efficient and only marginally slower than pretty much any iron fireaxe (especially if you've got a Wood Splitter and Fireman's Axe mod on it), and as a bonus can (slowly) take down other objects and do quick repairs. The Ratcheting Wrench is such a minor upgrade over the normal wrench I'm not entirely sure why it's in the game, especially given how rare it is and how late it shows up.

 

The pickaxe and claw hammer are the only ones that really matter, and that's just because the pickaxe has no primitive equivalent and the claw hammer upgrades/repairs faster, which is primarily just a convenience thing you can easily go without (you do eventually need the faster repairs for horde defense, but by the time that happens there's a 90% chance you'll have a nailgun which is, again, such an absurdly massive jump that it's hard to describe)

[iamnuff]

"Professional iron", "Iron" and "Cheap iron" are all way too close. They'd need distinct models and stuff, and that's just not...

No, that's lame. 

 

You could add a scrap-tier (tools made from metal junk like signposts, cinderblocks and broken pipes) between stone and iron pretty easily though. 

Distinct appearance and it'd be easy to explain why you can make these after you're done playing around with rocks and sticks, but before you've got your forge properly set up to start smithing your own professional-tier tools. 

 Thematically, you aren't melting anything down yet, you're just bolting something sharp to a pipe to make a jury-rigged axe. 

 

This would make early-game loot more rewarding, because there'd be stuff to find besides 'random trash-tier stone axe x50' from looting a tool-store. 

 

You could put the blunderbuss and potentially other 'pipe gun' themed weapons for pistols and rifles in this tier too.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Gazz]

On 8/31/2020 at 5:05 PM, Teacyn said:

I think a big chunk of the tier issue is that Stone -> Iron isn't a very large jump, but Iron -> Steel is such a massive jump that even a l1 steel tool with a bad stat roll is usually better than a l4-5 iron tool.

And that is why we did not add another tool tier. It would amplify the overlap.

[Adam the Waster]

On 8/31/2020 at 1:06 AM, Gazz said:

So what would be the reason for having these extra tiers?

Split the existing damage range from T0 - T3 into more and smaller buckets?

Filler?

 

Its like adding Sand in a sandwich, it gets heavy but you need to go through more to get to the good part.... That made no sense...

[Cernwn]

While I agree that we need more non-consumable items overall (weapon types, armor, utilities) to beef up loot possibilities, I do not agree with adding additional tech tiers. The obvious caveat to this would be in future DLCs where TFP add stuff like more organized mutant groups, mecha, aliens, multidimensional beings, etc. With the addition of said entities, a T4, and even T5, for high-tech stuff (beyond the ken of humankind) would make sense. Although, I am betting that TFP has higher priorities atm than rebalancing the entire loot list, which would probably be needed with said changes.

On 8/30/2020 at 10:06 PM, Gazz said:

So what would be the reason for having these extra tiers?

@Gazz See my comments above, but also randomness + more variables = more excitement + replayability. Too few possibilities = bored players due to predictability + less replayability. For early-mid game, might have to counter balance by increasing quantity of ammo drops (amount per find). Ammo would be rarer, but you find a more useful amount, if you find any at all.

 

For anyone that wants an example of how to thoroughly rebalance loot lists, check out ComSenMod for A18 by Crater Creator. TFP REALLY should look into hiring this guy, at least part time.