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Reckis

The real problem with A19 and the looting system

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Just now, Kalen said:

lol, what are you talking about?   Because an axe made of stone, grass, and wood is not perceived as being valuable (very different than being useful, btw) that means everyone wants to be fully geared in a week?   Thats a huge, colossal stretch of logic.

 

 

 

No, because value is subjective.

 

I could easily paint a scenario for why an individual would lock up his prized, high quality stone axe, but this isn't story time.

 

People who don't find a high quality stone axe valuable, do so for very definable reasons, especially within the context of a game. One could easily say that a primary amongst those reasons would be the expectation of having better within a given time frame.

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9 minutes ago, Reckis said:

Arguments like this are exactly why people like @Roland and I think that the majority of the people who are @%$*#!ing about the new loot system, are actually @%$*#!ing because they cant be fully kitted in the first week.

*steps slowly away from Reckis*
 

lol...I think SOME people feel this way but most are simply disappointed when they open containers and it is spoiling their fun because they feel TFP went too far in the shift. 
 

Finding early guns would be okay if there was proper degradation in the game. But finding something during week one that removes all threats for the rest of the game is no good, imo. 

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1 minute ago, Reckis said:

No, because value is subjective.

Correct... most people, I would think, find something made of stone, grass, and wood to not be all that valuable.   Again, useful but not valuable.

 

2 minutes ago, Reckis said:

I could easily paint a scenario for why an individual would lock up his prized, high quality stone axe, but this isn't story time.

Of course, I would think we all could.   But could you, plausibly, come up with stories for the myriad of stone tools that you find over the course of a game?   Surely there aren't hundreds of prized stone tools in game world?   

 

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

Finding early guns would be okay if there was proper degradation in the game. But finding something during week one that removes all threats for the rest of the game is no good, imo. 

Exactly.... this is one of the reasons why the game desperately needs item degradation.  It really bums me out that it wont.

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6 minutes ago, Roland said:

*steps slowly away from Reckis*

Sorry, I will be certain to not drag you into my discussion in the future ;)

2 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Of course, I would think we all could.   But could you, plausibly, come up with stories for the myriad of stone tools that you find over the course of a game?   Surely there aren't hundreds of prized stone tools in game world?   

In a post apocalyptic world? Based on the real world, but set slightly in the future? Probably not, I am sure there are tons of survivors who have the know-how and the materials to not only create a high quality stone axe every time they need one, but also properly smelt and form iron.

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1 minute ago, Reckis said:

I am sure there are tons of survivors who have the know-how and the materials to not only create a high quality stone axe every time they need one, but also properly smelt and form iron.

Not in this game.... other than traders, I've not seen a single soul  :)

 

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1 minute ago, Kalen said:

Not in this game.... other than traders, I've not seen a single soul  :)

 

Which goes back to the original post of this thread, lol.

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9 hours ago, Solomon said:

Its standard game logic, we dont really complain about absurdish size ratios in any game. It doesnt matter if the purse has an rpg, stone shovel, half a ton of iron, a whole human body or a literal universe is in it because its part of the gameplay immersion.

It's also standard game logic to find loot everywhere, next

Not to mention it's not hard to imagine some dude sealing stone tools into a box in a world where you can build a box in seconds

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2 hours ago, Tmodloader said:

It's also standard game logic to find loot everywhere, next

Not to mention it's not hard to imagine some dude sealing stone tools into a box in a world where you can build a box in seconds

Every box? Every gun safe? In every place of every city?

 

Right.

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

Every box? Every gun safe? In every place of every city?

 

Right.

Eventually you wont find it as often though so what do you mean every box in every city?
 

 

25 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Tmodloader Not even in loot shooters it´s like that.

Pretty sure even games like PuBG have stuff like that, some primitive @%$*#! that makes no sense in a box or supplies that wouldn't be found laying around a warzone 

In this game is makes more sense if you think about how easily you can build a box, sealing a crate isn't really anything special. Some dude could pass by store some stuff, set out and lock up his box

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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You said it´s standard logic to find loot everywhere. That is not true. That you find stuff in places that make no sense, is antoher story.  Gotta be a bit more specific.

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19 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

You said it´s standard logic to find loot everywhere. That is not true. That you find stuff in places that make no sense, is antoher story.  Gotta be a bit more specific.

It's certainly more standard logic than finding an rocket in a purse

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39 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

Eventually you wont find it as often though so what do you mean every box in every city?

I mean every box in every city for as long as it lasts, which is actually quite some time. 

14 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

It's certainly more standard logic than finding an rocket in a purse

Agreed. Rockets shouldn't be in purses, just like stone tools shouldn't be in gun stores. 

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7 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

Rockets shouldn't be in purses

Why you trying to kill my playstyle bro!!!!1!1

 

;)

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On 8/26/2020 at 4:29 PM, Roland said:

Because they desire an AK47. They can talk about immersion all day but what it really comes down to is they don’t want to be disappointed when they open that box. 
 

If primitive gear could one shot zombies and decimate trees and boulders you wouldn’t hear a peep about how it makes no sense for primitive weapons being in safes. 
 

Just like we don’t hear a peep about AK47s being found in a small wall safe it could never fit into. 

no.
NO.
NO!
Just no! OMG i cant even how no this is.

Sure some kids might. But this is literally the "you are a spoiled brat so your criticism is not valid".
I personally don't care for primitive tools in boxes... I would like if instead its just lvl one iron stuff all the time (which is often worse than lvl 3-6 primitive), but idc.
But this is the perfect example of how you/tfps handle criticism.
Yes there are people that just bs to bs and get attention.
But if someone gives you a gamedesign reason for their criticism and gives you ways to combat the problem, they are not "misguided" and "TFPs know better"
Thats like saying the newer cuts of the original Starwars is better because george lukas is the creator and so knows best.
Or witches in HP magicing their poo away before toilets were a thing. Sure J.K. has the right to do it. That doesnt make it "good".

TFPs sadly only know two ways to deal with problems:
-ignore and find reasons why they ignore it (early on with cheaters, then with pvp and so on)
-or completely scrap the whole idea instead of improving it.
and it saddens me how many awesome mechanics we lost on the way.

Don't get me wrong A19 is nice... the best since A16, maybe even better by now. But I just wonder how far this game could have gone without 7 major overhauls and reworks of perfectly good systems that just needed some tweaking.

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23 hours ago, Roland said:

I’m not fighting for a change. You think I’m arguing that if TFP fixes this inconsistency they should fix size and weight ratio inconsistencies?  Sorry for the confusion. I accept those things easily as I do primitive gear in crates. But for your sake I do really hope they change those crates into plain cardboard boxes so you can have fun too. 

Sorry, i thought its an actual problem for you  because without that your comments seem like pure nitpicking.

23 hours ago, Roland said:

You just need to try playing the first three days without using a stone axe at all. Then you might include it among the list of useful somethings...

Being useful doesnt magically validate an item for the broader audience. Just because i would have a hard time punching trees for wood that doesnt turn a literal tutorial tool into something what i actually expect seeing in well any container.

10 hours ago, katarynna said:

hmmmm.... i sorta thought vic had changed his forum name to solomon...

We are not the same person, hell i dont even remember if i ever seen this guy.

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On 8/28/2020 at 8:01 AM, Reckis said:

So, by this logic, it isn't more useful to harvest wood and other materials faster than you would with your fists? Do you repair your stone axe or just scrap it and make a new one every time? I would be willing to bet that you repair it, because it DOES have value.

... The repairing a stone axe is about convenience. The value is in the Quality level, which for a stone is minimal because... The durability increase is a redundant when the cost to repair is barely zero. The increase to damage is minimal when 'the number hits to destruction' remains almost the same, and be offset by mods. And mods are rare in the early game (not so rare that you can't find them, but tool priority is low compared to weapons in that category), so increasing the mod slots isn't as impactful. Mod slots are probably the most valued thing on a higher quality stone tool, and even that isn't that great.

Frankly, they could remove 'repairing of stone tools' and all it would do is force more players to either 'skill into Miner 69', 'purchase them at the trader', 'whine about how they can't find good quality stone tools in loot', or 'just suck it up and persevere for the first week'.

Not that I recommend that, although I feel like Roland would get a laugh out of it.

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When first starting out  those primitive weapon are ok using to kill small groups, but are useless at handling a horde night. I basically had to set the exp multiplier to X300 just to get to level 10 to find a handgun.

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38 minutes ago, Brutaljustice said:

When first starting out  those primitive weapon are ok using to kill small groups, but are useless at handling a horde night. I basically had to set the exp multiplier to X300 just to get to level 10 to find a handgun.

With the right base design, you can fight a horde with primitive weapons. Here, for example, is a simple melee base:

 

 

 

It is described as a Fortitude Base but it works for a strength build as well.

 

I used a similar design for my first base. It was made of cobblestone and iron hatches. My weapons of choice was a stone sledgehammer and a blunderbuss. Worked out just fine.

Or you can just build a 5x5 tower out of cobblestone, surround it with wooden spikes and barbed wire fences and fight the horde with the bow. I have seen players do that.

 

 

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