Do you like the A19 loot system?

[BFT2020]

9 hours ago, Solomon said:

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

 

I don't recall ever finding an anvil in a kitchen counter.  I found a lot of them though in Working Stiff boxes.

[Solomon]

15 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

1. People were waiting to loot safes because the loot was low quality anyway pre A19.

2. Totally untrue. Pre 19 containers also had their own loot lists by types as they do know.

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim.
2. Yeah thats true to some degree, if you looted a WS container you had your random chance of getting somekind of tool, repair kits and nails if i remember right. Now in A19 this is no longer the case because for an absurdly long amount of time the same loot will be in that container till your GS rises up enough.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Solomon said:

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim

Safes were commonly kept for later and their locations noted. But a mayor reason for this was that opening one with a stone axe was just taking too long. Lootstage concerns were much less important.

 

[TheRani]

I think the sealed crates should at least contain Parts, so people with points in the appropriate perks can at least start collecting materials to make their own.

[alanea]

5 hours ago, Solomon said:

1. I never once seen here any complain about how the loot in safes and such is bad so they have to wait for it, this type of complain started to appear en masse after the A19 experimental came out but if im wrong please provide source of your claim.
2. Yeah thats true to some degree, if you looted a WS container you had your random chance of getting somekind of tool, repair kits and nails if i remember right. Now in A19 this is no longer the case because for an absurdly long amount of time the same loot will be in that container till your GS rises up enough.

1) because pre-A19  safes usuallyd ropped some tier 1 gun kicking  you ot  of stone age on day 1

2) a19 WS box drops nails repair kits and tools

absurdly long ?:D  7 days +-  but  to be fair  you can craft low quality iron tools on day  1-2

 

20 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

i don't recall ever finding an anvil in a kitchen counter.  I found a lot of them though in Working Stiff boxes.

and you are  right .. its just another madeup   story from him again ...WS boxes barely changed  .. we just get stone age tools instead day  1 nailguns/steel .... and 25 repair kits instead 2-3(for some reason)

27 minutes ago, TheRani said:

I think the sealed crates should at least contain Parts, so people with points in the appropriate perks can at least start collecting materials to make their own.

sure broken guns/tools  in form of part would  be best option  on other side stone tools should stay easily accesible in loot q5 stone tool is still better than your q3

On 11/23/2020 at 1:28 PM, Weazelsun said:

I do hope that the loot becomes less dependent on gamestage sooner rather than later.

TFP made clear it wont .... they just add modifier .. either percentage or fixed  to  biomes .. and maybeeeee some pois

 

On 11/23/2020 at 1:03 PM, Weazelsun said:

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

most POI  is abusable like this its just faulty design  they need to fix somehow not sure why they decided to put all loot on one place where its easily accesibleby entering poi by exit/nerdpoling

[RipClaw]

15 hours ago, alanea said:

most POI  is abusable like this its just faulty design  they need to fix somehow not sure why they decided to put all loot on one place where its easily accesibleby entering poi by exit/nerdpoling

The reason for this is that you don't want to let the player run back through the whole POI when he has finished the dungeon. In most games you have a quick way back out of a dungeon like a door that can only be opened from the inside. That the whole world is destroyable leads to the problem that the exit can also be the entrance.

 

[Solomon]

19 hours ago, meganoth said:

Safes were commonly kept for later and their locations noted. But a mayor reason for this was that opening one with a stone axe was just taking too long. Lootstage concerns were much less important.

Yeah that i do remember, thought we played in pairs so most of the time we just hammered stuff till it opened.

 

17 hours ago, alanea said:

2) a19 WS box drops nails repair kits and tools

absurdly long ?:D  7 days +-  but  to be fair  you can craft low quality iron tools on day  1-2

I mean, i could already do that? We were usually out of stone age on day 3 in A18. I took advanced engineering and started making tools while the others were gone to hunt down resources.

Compared to this nothing has changed except that now i NEED to take advanced engineering to go forward unlike in A18 where it was convenience option.

 

Steel was a bottleneck in both version because the damned crucible is nowhere to found.

[alanea]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The reason for this is that you don't want to let the player run back through the whole POI when he has finished the dungeon. In most games you have a quick way back out of a dungeon like a door that can only be opened from the inside. That the whole world is destroyable leads to the problem that the exit can also be the entrance.

 

well yeah but there could be  7k metal doors  ... or visually less fitting 21k instead wooden ones with key in chest especially in high tier poi like waterworks where you have concrete walls and cant easily bypass those doors on day 1 .. they have some plans on keys  etc  so lets wait and hope .. its significant flaw of game  ....but we will need nerves of steel for future forum

A19"omg loot sucks we are stuck in stone age you destroyed game"

A20 "omg i cant skip poi and go straight for loot you destroyed game"

A21 "omg those bandits shot on me instead limping to me get slaughtered by club you destroyed game"

A22 "village and pillage"?

 

but loot often have no barrier at all on roof ... or its in wooden room  ideal case would be loot distributed across dungeon rather than single room its weird and abusable design

4 hours ago, Solomon said:

Yeah that i do remember, thought we played in pairs so most of the time we just hammered stuff till it opened.

 

I mean, i could already do that? We were usually out of stone age on day 3 in A18. I took advanced engineering and started making tools while the others were gone to hunt down resources.

Compared to this nothing has changed except that now i NEED to take advanced engineering to go forward unlike in A18 where it was convenience option.

 

Steel was a bottleneck in both version because the damned crucible is nowhere to found.

day 3 is quite late in A18 i never used stone shovel until A19 and had atleast one steel tool and gun on day  1

basically loot few cars  or raid working stiff tool  shop with few walkersinside to skip both stone and iron age ... while crafting stuff to finish tutorial quests

while current system is far from finished ... atleast we have some progression unlike previous alphas people are now disapointed by stone shovel ...  in A8 they used to be disapointed when WS crate dropped trash q4  iron axe in first days instead steel one

 

A17 crucible was locked behind lvl  80 A18 was pure rng A19 start appearing with iron tools i think ?   but recipe is  same in all three versions   just get  damn better barter 

- its one of best perks overall multiplying all your loot/quest rewards by increasing its price ..

- traders sell almost everything need 30 ductapes ? bunch of steel ? advanced turrets or guns ? rare mods .. or books you missing ?  day 1  concrete ? ammo ? food ?  candies ? dukes are all you need

- 5/5   is only way to get solar bank

- rank 3-4 makes crucible very common in secret stash for +- 6k dukes

 

in multiplayer its even better to have one person designed for selling/crafting stuff  with int tree

while the other one focus str for mining or perception for looting

 

A19 made recipes very common making int less usefull as you can ignore all perks and get recipes from random bookstore anyway

[JCrook1028]

4 hours ago, alanea said:

day 3 is quite late in A18 i never used stone shovel until A19 and had atleast one steel tool and gun on day  1

and that is exactly what TFP fixed with A19.

[Stranded_Napkin]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:20 AM, Liesel Weppen said:

But when it comes to items that are essentially needed for further progression, like a crucible, pure RNG is ... stupid.

We all remember the calipers problem. The only reason I disagree as to it being stupid is the focus on the RNG rather than the low number of actual sources. RNG isn't a problem if you can get something from a bunch of sources, but when it's only available from one or two it becomes a problem. Calipers were only available from lumberjacks and Working Stiff boxes, not to mention the incredibly low probability they'd drop in the first place. You have to be able to hit up those sources enough to make it possible to efficiently find them in a given time. Treasure maps don't have high probabilities but they drop often enough due to being able to find them literally anywhere due to them being in the trash.

[Solomon]

17 hours ago, alanea said:

well yeah but there could be  7k metal doors  ... or visually less fitting 21k instead wooden ones with key in chest especially in high tier poi like waterworks where you have concrete walls and cant easily bypass those doors on day 1 .. they have some plans on keys  etc  so lets wait and hope .. its significant flaw of game  ....but we will need nerves of steel for future forum

Most probably what will happen is that the pimps are going to add in a "Key only" door and people just gonna dig around it.

 

Lets be honest, the whole "fastest way into a POI" situation only affects those who are already at their 5th (or more) replay so they know exactly where the loot is.

 

This is the reason why i suggested POI designs where the exterior is looking like the usual setup but the interior is changed up so the player must enter the area to figure out where the loot is.

 

Like for example lets take that waterworks where the exit is always near that tree:

 

Version A : Tree exit, the regular map.

Version B : Nothing under the tree, the exit is under a nearby poi. The actual inside is refurbished to look like a military base and not waterworks.

Version C : The tree is actually a second entrance leading to the same corridor setup, long routes into a collapsed cave system where the loot is in the middle between the two exits.

 

Variation is miles better than creating artifical difficulty like key opened doors and chests.

18 hours ago, alanea said:

day 3 is quite late in A18 i never used stone shovel until A19 and had atleast one steel tool and gun on day  1

It was usually day 2 for us but we never used steel tools, that was endgame for us. 

[Xtrakicking]

On 11/23/2020 at 1:28 PM, Weazelsun said:

I do hope that the loot becomes less dependent on gamestage sooner rather than later.

Not gonna happen, and at this point the only hope are those gamestage modifiers that change depending on the POI and biome.

[alanea]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:56 PM, JCrook1028 said:

and that is exactly what TFP fixed with A19.

yeah  thats why i agree with A19 progression system even considering  its ...  lets call it halfbaked state :D

unlike many who want just bash it because they have to use stone tools for few days.

On 11/26/2020 at 9:13 AM, Solomon said:

Most probably what will happen is that the pimps are going to add in a "Key only" door and people just gonna dig around it.

well i think TFP know loot rooms arent ideal .. but realistically some key mechanic is far easier solution than reworking every single poi

but there isnt much around for us yet ... guess we can only wait and hope to get  something meaningfull rather than locked steel doors  in wooden room with windows

[Solomon]

17 hours ago, alanea said:

well i think TFP know loot rooms arent ideal .. but realistically some key mechanic is far easier solution than reworking every single poi

but there isnt much around for us yet ... guess we can only wait and hope to get  something meaningfull rather than locked steel doors  in wooden room with windows

But the idea of reworking POI's is not just to make looting harder but to generate variables because everything looks the same and without adding variables to it the POI's you first raided back in 2018 are the same as the POI's nowadays.

[Weazelsun]

On 11/26/2020 at 7:57 AM, Xtrakicking said:

Not gonna happen, and at this point the only hope are those gamestage modifiers that change depending on the POI and biome.

Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking of the poi and biome modifiers. I want to see that in action. Would be nice to actually feel rewarded on completing a hard poi in a hard biome. 

[alanea]

16 hours ago, Solomon said:

But the idea of reworking POI's is not just to make looting harder but to generate variables because everything looks the same and without adding variables to it the POI's you first raided back in 2018 are the same as the POI's nowadays.

well you can be sure this wont change  POI  are clearly handmade ..  with fixed spawns fixed loot and specific  way to go through withou breaking stuff while triggering every spawn

 

sure they added some rng (in  A19? A18?)  by simply randomizing loot containers (you can  loot house  ..and find trash behind  painting ... but after reseting  you can find   lets say lab equipment on same spot

 

also bookcases/vending machines /workbenches /cement..... have chance to be either lootable or broken making some slight  variability

 

but since way is hand made you cant meaningfully generate poi  the only slution would be  several different versions of  same poi to choose randomly ... but that would  eat  insane amount of developers time

2 hours ago, Weazelsun said:

Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking of the poi and biome modifiers. I want to see that in action. Would be nice to actually feel rewarded on completing a hard poi in a hard biome. 

just dont overhype it .. as far i know madmole confirmed only biome bonus ...   POI  modifier is mostly wish coming from community

[Solomon]

6 hours ago, alanea said:

sure they added some rng (in  A19? A18?)  by simply randomizing loot containers (you can  loot house  ..and find trash behind  painting ... but after reseting  you can find   lets say lab equipment on same spot

No those are spawns, i checked in the xml's. Some paintings have an effect to convert the space behind them into random loot when breaking. They are like RNG loot containers, they are either trigger or not but they are always the same.

[alanea]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:35 AM, Solomon said:

No those are spawns, i checked in the xml's. Some paintings have an effect to convert the space behind them into random loot when breaking. They are like RNG loot containers, they are either trigger or not but they are always the same.

thats bit strange because i predict  loot behind painting with almost 100% accuracy in well known pois + they are there even if you dotn destroy painting(destroy block above it and you will see:D  so it cannot be caused by breaking painting

 

 .. i would call even crates randomized ...since i definitely had two sham factories with different crates in loot room during A18