Do you like the A19 loot system?

[meganoth]

1 minute ago, RestInPieces said:

"You find almost everything by looting and since nothing degrades, you will never have to craft it (or loot it again), so you can make due without a crucible (1 out of 100 times you can't find it or afford to spec in it) and enjoy the scarcity of steel!"

 

Yeah, it would, but don't you find it sad that we praise the economic scarcity of... a fringe case?

Indeed it is. On the other hand this is alpha and for the first time early game really has some scarcity. Which makes me hope that there might be eventually more things in that category.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

36 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 Seems the above mentioned contraption and the gym machine are not among the steel providers anymore!

Yep, i had in mind that the gym thing gave steel and was suprised it doesn't (anymore)

[stample]

Plenty of steel is still available if you know where to look.  In my latest playthrough, we just got a crucible last night (I'm lvl 40, he spec'd into Int 10 at mid 30s), but we already had 2 motorcycles, a 6 steel pick, and a pair of nail guns, all crafted.  Also about 70 Steel tool parts.  I was about to make another run to make shovels when he just spent the points.  This was all before we really reached Steel age, though we were right on the cusp.  I think we'd find 1 ax and 1 pick, low tier.  But we'd already crafted almost 200 steel worth of items.

 

Foremost is the street lights.  They give 1-3 and you just need a few frames to reach them.  Some of the larger POIs have as many as 8 of them.

 

Next, defunct vending machines (or live ones if you're feeling frisky) give you a couple steel, and those are common in store-type POIs that reset with quests.  1000 hp to wrench down vs 300 for light poles though.

 

Finally, power pole tops.  Common in wasteland, and also at least 1 in each of the junkyard POIs, and they give 2 or 3 I think.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Looking in blocks: There is the gunsafe and the hardened chest, the mortician drawer and the munitions box. Seems the above mentioned contraption and the gym machine are not among the steel providers anymore!

 

5 minutes ago, stample said:

Finally, power pole tops.  Common in wasteland, and also at least 1 in each of the junkyard POIs, and they give 2 or 3 I think.

 

Goddmnit ppl, stop making me doubt myself..

 

Checked:

blocks.xml(24436)

<block name="poleTop01">

snippery

    <drop event="Harvest" name="resourceForgedIron" count="1,4" tag="allHarvest"/>
    <drop event="Harvest" name="resourceForgedSteel" count="1,3" tag="salvageHarvest"/>

[Provin915]

New player here looting seems alright but sometimes it can take a long time to find specific items like a beaker or crucible..

[DaChibii]

I know this derailed into a scenic discussion about the scarcity of steel, but I would like to point out that steel tools aren't super needed. We had a whole discussion about tool progression in another thread, and really while Steel is better than Iron, the actual end tier is mechanical tools. So really you should be able to plan out how much steel you need for real essential items (Motorcycle, Weapons, Mods, and Mechanical Tools) and just prioritize as you go. And really you can live with a Minibike... it's even more fuel efficient than the Motorcycle.

[Boidster]

On 11/17/2020 at 4:18 PM, meganoth said:

Ah, right. But they could also make the door to the loot room be open or not there at all at start and only have a closed door there when the quest was activated. It would just be another quest type then and not specifically to keep beeliners away.

 

I also think that closed off loot rooms will only be added to some higher tier POIs. TFP may have mentioned this already, even if they didn't it stands to reason they won't redesign seven hundred POI's.

I would be gobsmacked if they implement this as a "locked door" mechanism. Unless the entire loot room (set aside how this would even work for open-air loot boxes on rooftops) is invulnerable, a locked door does nothing about the "problem" of quick loot.

 

I'd bet 200 quatloos that the container will be locked. That seems far simpler to integrate into the game than trying to adjust loot rooms in POIs.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

I would be gobsmacked if they implement this as a "locked door" mechanism. Unless the entire loot room (set aside how this would even work for open-air loot boxes on rooftops) is invulnerable, a locked door does nothing about the "problem" of quick loot.

Whats the only difference between invulnerable blocks and steel blocks to someone with a stone axe? The latter might trick him into actually wasting half a day to dig through it.

Even in mid game digging through 4 steel blocks would be so boring you would think twice to do it. If you do then you at least had to work for it.

 

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

 

I'd bet 200 quatloos that the container will be locked. That seems far simpler to integrate into the game than trying to adjust loot rooms in POIs.

Containers (so the reward can be split between mulitple players). This would also make it necessary that one player finding the key magically makes everyone able to unlock the containers in a far away room (quantum mechanics at work I suppose)

 

 

[Kalen]

15 minutes ago, meganoth said:

This would also make it necessary that one player finding the key magically makes everyone able to unlock the containers in a far away room (quantum mechanics at work I suppose)

I dont understand what you mean.... I would think one player finding the key means that player would have to go unlock the container.   Nothing magical needed.

[meganoth]

Just now, Kalen said:

I dont understand what you mean.... I would think one player finding the key means that player would have to go unlock the container.   Nothing magical needed.

Right, that works because unlocking is a seperate step from opening. So everyone has to wait while the key bearer makes the round to unlock the chests.

[Kalen]

Just now, meganoth said:

Right, that works because unlocking is a seperate step from opening. So everyone has to wait while the key bearer makes the round to unlock the chests.

Right.  I guess I just dont see that as a very big deal.

[Aldranon]

17 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The perk is level 5 of Advanced Engineering.

Level 10 intellect is a lot but with the forgetting elixr you could work around this problem. A quick respec to int to craft crucibles and then back to your normal build.

Don't forget the glasses that gives you a +1 Int.

I went that way to 9 int and then built a crucible (and some vehicles), but it was having 2 sledge turrets that kept me with it.  If you can get the zombies coming at your base to one spot (easy to do in A19) you don't really need to fire a shot!

 

However, using the forgetting elixir is probably the best "min-max" way to go. One turret right next to the "sweet spot" on your base is enough.

 

TLDR:  Int can be a "one off" stat.  Use it, then lose it.

[Solomon]

9 hours ago, Boidster said:

I'd bet 200 quatloos that the container will be locked. That seems far simpler to integrate into the game than trying to adjust loot rooms in POIs.

Even thats something i wouldnt want to see because that would need that in every poi i would always need to go around these long as hell routes just to reach something what is literally in arm reach.

 

For example theres that shop poi where the loot room is literally behind some iron bars, you could take the intented route what is unnecessearly long going up on the roof and all that jazz or like a true survivor of the apocalypse just whittle down the iron bars and get in.

[Kalen]

41 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Even thats something i wouldnt want to see because that would need that in every poi i would always need to go around these long as hell routes just to reach something what is literally in arm reach.

 

For example theres that shop poi where the loot room is literally behind some iron bars, you could take the intented route what is unnecessearly long going up on the roof and all that jazz or like a true survivor of the apocalypse just whittle down the iron bars and get in.

When the idea was discussed in the dev diary, Joel indicated that they were only thinking about using this in the higher tier POIs, not all POIs.   Cause, yeah, that would get old fast.

[hiemfire]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:11 AM, meganoth said:

You also get steel from a contraption (hydraulic hoist?) found on the floor of car repair shops

I think that is supposed to be the rear differential and axle of a rwd vehicle.

23 hours ago, theFlu said:

That "hydraulic hoist" is the top of a power pole, just repurposed I guess. As such, it used to be found in the wastelands, but I haven't spent much time there lately.

Ya, I don't remember seeing any power poles out there last time I hazarded the area. Haven't seen any on the ground either.

[JCrook1028]

2 hours ago, hiemfire said:

I think that is supposed to be the rear differential and axle of a rwd vehicle.

Ya, I don't remember seeing any power poles out there last time I hazarded the area. Haven't seen any on the ground either.

read the item name in the xml... pole top....

[hiemfire]

56 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

read the item name in the xml... pole top....

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not disputing what it is, I'm saying they also used the pole top asset to represent the rear differential and axle of a RWD vehicle since you can also find them  in home garages and car shops.

[Solomon]

22 hours ago, Kalen said:

When the idea was discussed in the dev diary, Joel indicated that they were only thinking about using this in the higher tier POIs, not all POIs.   Cause, yeah, that would get old fast.

Even in higher tier poi's like the SM factory it gets old fast, especially if its on some random zombie because that means you at no point can decide to go around a certain part because one of the 60 zombies in the area has the key and if its in a container that means we essentially get 2 loot rooms one to raid fastest ingoring everything and 1 to nerdpole into.

 

I much rather see adding more variations of the same building because that way every building keeps the sandbox aspect while they are no longer predictable that easily.

[IrishManJMo]

As someone who has done some modding on my server and have tweaked some loot mechanics in the xml files I will say that a19 is a step in the right direction. I voted NO currently but I have seen for myself that this loot system has a lot of potential but it takes a ton of time and effort to get it there.

[Daemonjax]

I like it.

 

I'm a new player that didn't experience the old system, but I can use my imagination.  This way, loot has a progression.  It's more gamist and less of a simulation, and so some players won't like that.

 

I would change it so that safes always have something worth putting behind the safe, though -- something like use a minimum total value of the loot based on current game stage and size of the safe.  The values of the loot already exist (trade prices) so this would be easy to implement.  For all I know, maybe it already is, but then it just needs to be tweaked.

[Solomon]

19 hours ago, Daemonjax said:

I like it.

 

I'm a new player that didn't experience the old system, but I can use my imagination.  This way, loot has a progression.  It's more gamist and less of a simulation, and so some players won't like that.

 

I would change it so that safes always have something worth putting behind the safe, though -- something like use a minimum total value of the loot based on current game stage and size of the safe.  The values of the loot already exist (trade prices) so this would be easy to implement.  For all I know, maybe it already is, but then it just needs to be tweaked.

The old system was not perfect but it made two things right:

 

* A gun safe or a type specific crate always had what you expect in them. Guns in a gunsafe and tools in a sealed crate. The current version makes sure that every gunsafe you open will only have primitive bows and blunderbusses, no variation at all.

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

[Weazelsun]

On 11/19/2020 at 12:08 AM, Solomon said:

Even thats something i wouldnt want to see because that would need that in every poi i would always need to go around these long as hell routes just to reach something what is literally in arm reach.

 

For example theres that shop poi where the loot room is literally behind some iron bars, you could take the intented route what is unnecessearly long going up on the roof and all that jazz or like a true survivor of the apocalypse just whittle down the iron bars and get in.

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

[Weazelsun]

I do hope that the loot becomes less dependent on gamestage sooner rather than later.

[Solomon]

56 minutes ago, Weazelsun said:

Heck, the pawnshop poi, the loot room is basically right at the starting point. Just break the door next to the dumpster. lol

Seriously, places like this shouldnt have loot rooms. It makes sense for giant factories, laboratories and skyscrapers but not for those small as hell little rooms.

[JCrook1028]

9 hours ago, Solomon said:

A gun safe or a type specific crate always had what you expect in them. Guns in a gunsafe and tools in a sealed crate. The current version makes sure that every gunsafe you open will only have primitive bows and blunderbusses, no variation at all.

* It was unpredicatable meaning that every container was "new" to a player, you never knew exactly what will be in a kitchen counter because the moment you thought it will be cans and water again you found an anvil or an AK.

1. People were waiting to loot safes because the loot was low quality anyway pre A19.

2. Totally untrue. Pre 19 containers also had their own loot lists by types as they do know.