Do you like the A19 loot system?

[pApA^LeGBa]

There was no attribute penalty in A18. Go install it and see for yourself. Check the change logs for A19, no changes for the death penalty mentioned.

 

And no one would like it, if this was the final version. Those votes where an expression that people are happy about the steps in the right direction. Also the polls in this forum get what? 100 votes? I can get more likes on a funny screenshot on FB in a day. This forum is not even slightly representative for the playerbase. 90% of the players never have been here.

 

Go out on steam, FB, twitter. See the crying and whining about the current state of loot. But most understand that this is temporary.

 

 

[Slaasher]

I'm enjoying it.

[Worrun]

I've been away since experimental was introducted and first released, but a large majority of threads and posts I'm seeing are people rising the issue with the new loot system in A19, it's either the majority complaining about how bad it is, or like this poll in OP, basically 50/50.

 

It should be "majority like it, majority of the time" I really hope Madmole and TFP aren't too stubborn to either revert the system or get tweaking it quite heavily.

[Roland]

We never did a “Do you like the A18 loot system” poll. What if we had and it came out 50/50?  Would you then still ask to revert to it if it too was not a “majority likes it, the majority of the time” system either?

 

There were a lot of complaints about the A18 loot system right after it went stable too. 

[Fox]

While I'm happy to see that getting bullets is no longer an issue anymore (at least in the early stages, brass will always be sort of an issue unless scrapping tokens into brass), getting rotting flesh is now an issue for me (during the early stages) and I had to make my own firearms because the game only recently started giving me level 1 crappy guns which I don't want to use. I'm level 40 with insane horde nights... I was finally able to make a level 4 AK / finally bought enough parts to make one. Now I no longer feel like I need to rely entirely on my 10 layers of metal spikes around my base just to survive the night.

 

I mainly don't like how predictable and boring the loot is now. I now know for a fact that I'll never get a firearm (other than the useless blunderbuss) until level 30ish or higher. And forget about iron tools or better... still haven't gotten any of those yet. I made my own a long time ago.

[NukularBunny]

On 8/27/2020 at 9:07 PM, ElCabong said:

I'm level 4 and the safe loot has blue simple bows... Something worth waiting for

Well, exactly man, I skip safes early game if its locked.

@Reckis, it ain't sarcasm. It's true. There is still a possibility of getting crappy quality guns early game according to what some of us have said here. I've also seen gameplays of a couple people now. Some of them got toilet pistols or bought them off of the trader by day 5 or something. Blunderbuss and its ammo are really common now. And as you hit around level 10 or something I believe you start getting better quality primitive tools.

 

When all is said and done, in A19, getting guns early game is hard. Guns are supposed to be rare in any real apocalypse so I it is worth grinding for them.

[Stranded_Napkin]

I've gotta go with a resounding no. It's more or less the only issue I have with A19. I don't like that there is absolutely zero chance that you can find anything other than stone level items until you've killed x amount of zombies and done y amount of quests to earn z gamestage. Quests have never been my thing. I play without loot respawn as well. This makes it so my style is impossible to maintain. All they had to do was significantly reduce the probability of good loot spawning. There should still be a slight chance of getting something better than stone. The excitement in looting is the possibility and the anticipation. It doesn't have to actually happen, but without even a slight possibility of getting something better it takes all the fun out of it.

 

I find TFP's choice of acceptable exploits to be a bit absurd as well. Spam crafting is unacceptable but lighting 20 campfires to draw in screamers is totally ok. This loot system forces screamer exploits. Not too difficult if you ever find a motorized tool. The things are insane with the heatmap when mining metals. Since killing zombies is the best way to get xp it's an inevitability. There's plenty I don't know about A19 but I've found it to be like A17, a prelude to a better following alpha. I have hopes that this will be improved for A20.

[Solomon]

On 8/29/2020 at 12:31 PM, NukularBunny said:

When all is said and done, in A19, getting guns early game is hard. Guns are supposed to be rare in any real apocalypse so I it is worth grinding for them.

You can see it clearly in the game setting that it shouldnt be impossible at all.

 

Take a look at the military base POI the one with the underground safe, doors are intact, lights are running, some weed grows around the place. This all indicates that this soo called apocalypse was fast enough to wipe the population and leave everything behind.

 

If i would blow some sci-fi bomb up on earth what removes all human presence leaving 10% of the population here would mean that by the time the electricity would go out there would be still tons of equipment left behind on military bases and other zones.

 

2 hours ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

I've gotta go with a resounding no. It's more or less the only issue I have with A19. I don't like that there is absolutely zero chance that you can find anything other than stone level items until you've killed x amount of zombies and done y amount of quests to earn z gamestage. Quests have never been my thing. I play without loot respawn as well. This makes it so my style is impossible to maintain. All they had to do was significantly reduce the probability of good loot spawning. There should still be a slight chance of getting something better than stone. The excitement in looting is the possibility and the anticipation. It doesn't have to actually happen, but without even a slight possibility of getting something better it takes all the fun out of it.

 

I find TFP's choice of acceptable exploits to be a bit absurd as well. Spam crafting is unacceptable but lighting 20 campfires to draw in screamers is totally ok. This loot system forces screamer exploits. Not too difficult if you ever find a motorized tool. The things are insane with the heatmap when mining metals. Since killing zombies is the best way to get xp it's an inevitability. There's plenty I don't know about A19 but I've found it to be like A17, a prelude to a better following alpha. I have hopes that this will be improved for A20.

I still dont understand why are T6 items soo damm common. Like these are our best equipment and they are everywhere once your gamestage is up.

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Solomon said:

I still dont understand why are T6 items soo damm common. Like these are our best equipment and they are everywhere once your gamestage is up.

Q6 is not equal to Q6. You are neglecting technology levels if you only compare the quality. A Q6 stone axe is great but a Q6 iron pickaxe is better. And until you get a chance to find a Q6 auger you are already over gamestage 160.
 

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

I've gotta go with a resounding no. It's more or less the only issue I have with A19. I don't like that there is absolutely zero chance that you can find anything other than stone level items until you've killed x amount of zombies and done y amount of quests to earn z gamestage. Quests have never been my thing. I play without loot respawn as well. This makes it so my style is impossible to maintain. All they had to do was significantly reduce the probability of good loot spawning. There should still be a slight chance of getting something better than stone. The excitement in looting is the possibility and the anticipation. It doesn't have to actually happen, but without even a slight possibility of getting something better it takes all the fun out of it.

 

I find TFP's choice of acceptable exploits to be a bit absurd as well. Spam crafting is unacceptable but lighting 20 campfires to draw in screamers is totally ok. This loot system forces screamer exploits. Not too difficult if you ever find a motorized tool. The things are insane with the heatmap when mining metals. Since killing zombies is the best way to get xp it's an inevitability. There's plenty I don't know about A19 but I've found it to be like A17, a prelude to a better following alpha. I have hopes that this will be improved for A20.

A bit of a strawman. Show me the comment from a TFP dev saying 20 campfires to draw in screamers is totally ok. They might regard it as a minor problem or something they want to fix some time in the future. They might not have a good idea to fix it. Lots of possibilities.

 

Look at all the questions from players why this bug or that balance issue isn't already fixed. There are even bugs that are in the game for several alphas. That is the consequence of a small developer team. 

 

If you think you need to farm xp like crazy, do it. You will get perk points faster, but your equipment will be lacking and the zombies will get harder anyway. I would suggest the 300% XP setting if all you want is to get to the end of the game as fast as possible.

 

[Boidster]

10 hours ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

I find TFP's choice of acceptable exploits to be a bit absurd as well. ... lighting 20 campfires to draw in screamers is totally ok. This loot system forces screamer exploits.

"Exploit"? I disagree and don't see any reason why TFP would "fix" that mechanic. They have given the player some guidelines about how the world of 7D2D works (possibly learned through painful experience):

 

1) Camp fires, torches, forges, etc. generate heat

2) Heat attracts zombies, which can be hazardous to your health

 

If a player wants to attract zombies, so what? It's not an "exploit", it's just how the world works. You could role play as this guy:

 

 

It is trivial to add back in a chance for higher-tier loot if you want it. Several mods exist for exactly that purpose. You are choosing to play the game (no quests, no loot respawn) somewhat differently from vanilla. Which is awesome, by the way, go have fun however you like. But you might also want to tweak some other mechanics to fit your chosen play style so that it is fun for you. Game can't be all things to all people.

[JCrook1028]

11 minutes ago, Boidster said:

You are choosing to play the game (no quests, no loot respawn) somewhat differently from vanilla. Which is awesome, by the way, go have fun however you like. But you might also want to tweak some other mechanics to fit your chosen play style so that it is fun for you. Game can't be all things to all people.

It simply cannot be said any better than that.

[Stranded_Napkin]

On 9/25/2020 at 12:50 PM, Boidster said:

It is trivial to add back in a chance for higher-tier loot if you want it. Several mods exist for exactly that purpose. You are choosing to play the game (no quests, no loot respawn) somewhat differently from vanilla. Which is awesome, by the way, go have fun however you like. But you might also want to tweak some other mechanics to fit your chosen play style so that it is fun for you. Game can't be all things to all people.

Exactly what I'm doing. That doesn't mean that I MUST keep my mouth shut about how I feel about the current alpha. "There's mods for that" isn't a reason to stifle criticism. Game can't be all things, but it can be what it already was but better. Hell, the idea that guns require gun specific parts in part kits to repair is an easy way to allow them to drop and to keep the player from moving away from low tier items too early was a much better option. My criticism of how they chose to accomplish their goal of extending the early game is not me wanting end game stuff instantly, but rather it's just me not wanting to be forced to chop down trees with a rock when scrap metal from a random car in the hand of a brain damaged monkey would take it down faster. They forced mind numbing stupidity on the player at the expense of chance or originality. 

 

This is the result of people @%$#ing about RNG. They took the easy way out. They removed level caps in the skill trees and put it in the loot.

[Solomon]

3 hours ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

Exactly what I'm doing. That doesn't mean that I MUST keep my mouth shut about how I feel about the current alpha. "There's mods for that" isn't a reason to stifle criticism. Game can't be all things, but it can be what it already was but better. Hell, the idea that guns require gun specific parts in part kits to repair is an easy way to allow them to drop and to keep the player from moving away from low tier items too early was a much better option. My criticism of how they chose to accomplish their goal of extending the early game is not me wanting end game stuff instantly, but rather it's just me not wanting to be forced to chop down trees with a rock when scrap metal from a random car in the hand of a brain damaged monkey would take it down faster. They forced mind numbing stupidity on the player at the expense of chance or originality. 

 

This is the result of people @%$#ing about RNG. They took the easy way out. They removed level caps in the skill trees and put it in the loot.

Its pointless to argue with people whose reasoning is "Theres a mod for that". No offense to Boid but the devs might aswell stop bugfixes too and let some modder do that work with that logic.

[Roland]

Oh please...you guys can't stomach even the slightest pushback to your own viewpoint. Someone posts an alternative view and all of a sudden you are being stifled. Boidster never said that he hopes TFP never strives to improve the loot progression, he was being pragmatic about what you can do NOW to enjoy the game while you wait for the improvements.

 

It's not like TFP has no idea about the linearity of the loot progression and YOUR revelations are going to make lightbulbs turn on over the devs' heads. They know, and there is a plan to improve things, and despite all of that you can still complain and voice your disappointment and it all stands in digital print for anyone to read and nothing that Boidster nor me nor anyone else types in response is going to remove or oppress or stop what you've typed.

 

So stop with the martyr shtick please (or is that too stifling...?)

[Boidster]

6 hours ago, Solomon said:

No offense to Boid but the devs might aswell stop bugfixes too and let some modder do that work with that logic.

No offense taken! It is nice once in a while to visually inspect the back side of my eye sockets, as I did just after reading your post. Optic nerve lookin' good!

[Ripflex]

I voted NO simply because the new loot system takes the LUCK out of it.  I know what to expect at level 20,40, and 60 now; and looting at low levels is directed at getting mostly raw resources, ammo and books.  If that's what their goalwas , then TFP achieved it ?

 

I really just skipped all the bantering responses here, kind of derailed.

 

[Solomon]

16 hours ago, Boidster said:

No offense taken! It is nice once in a while to visually inspect the back side of my eye sockets, as I did just after reading your post. Optic nerve lookin' good!

Okay that caught me offguard, lol.

 

Sorry mate but i never really had anything positive come out from a discussion when people start to bring up "theres a mod for that".

 

• You dont like the current loot system? Theres a mod for that.
• You dont like the supersonic vultures? Theres a mod for that.
• You dont like the graphics? Mods.
• You think theres not enough weapons? Mods.
• You need a better working electricity system? Mods.
• Hotel? Trivago.

It just kills the discussion because you no longer move forward but practically ended it all with "theres a mod for that.".

[RipClaw]

5 hours ago, Ripflex said:

I voted NO simply because the new loot system takes the LUCK out of it.  I know what to expect at level 20,40, and 60 now; and looting at low levels is directed at getting mostly raw resources, ammo and books.  If that's what their goalwas , then TFP achieved it ?

 

I really just skipped all the bantering responses here, kind of derailed.

The current loot system is only an intermediate step to what they actually want. During the developer stream where they talked about A20, they mentioned that there will be areas in A20 with a gamestage bonus. If you dare to go there you will have to deal with stronger zombies but you will get better loot. There will also be pipe weapons to make the loot in the early game more varied.

 

And as for luck, there is still the toilet gun. It has not been removed from the game but it is very rare. So you need luck to find it.

I prefer reliability over luck because luck is a fickle creature.

 

[Rince]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:54 AM, Solomon said:

Its pointless to argue with people whose reasoning is "Theres a mod for that". No offense to Boid but the devs might aswell stop bugfixes too and let some modder do that work with that logic.

Ah, the Bethesda modus operandi!!

 

4 hours ago, Ripflex said:

I voted NO simply because the new loot system takes the LUCK out of it.  I know what to expect at level 20,40, and 60 now; and looting at low levels is directed at getting mostly raw resources, ammo and books.  If that's what their goalwas , then TFP achieved it ?

 

I really just skipped all the bantering responses here, kind of derailed.

 

Aren't they tweaking the loot system in the next alpha? Or I imagined it. (It's entirely possible, I imagine lots of things).

Didn't was planned to tweak the system so some places have higher leveled enemies and higher good loot chances. So if you manage to raid the shotgun messiah factory you get a chance to get something better than ten stone axes, four stone shovels and two blunderbusses?

 

If they're not planning to do it, they should. I think that could fix the issue that some people has with the current loot system.

[RipClaw]

40 minutes ago, Rince said:

Didn't was planned to tweak the system so some places have higher leveled enemies and higher good loot chances.

Yes that is planned. It is also mentioned in the A20 Dev Diary Thread on the first page (Point 8).

And there will also be more primitive weapons (Point 9).

 

[Boidster]

5 hours ago, Solomon said:

Sorry mate but i never really had anything positive come out from a discussion when people start to bring up "theres a mod for that".

• You dont like the current loot system? Theres a mod for that.
• You dont like the supersonic vultures? Theres a mod for that.
• You dont like the graphics? Mods.
• You think theres not enough weapons? Mods.
• You need a better working electricity system? Mods.
• Hotel? Trivago.

It just kills the discussion because you no longer move forward but practically ended it all with "theres a mod for that.".

Your perception of the reason I brought up mods is different from my intent. I did not mean, "stop complaining, there's a mod for that". I meant, "you [Stranded Napkin] appear to have a balance issue with how you prefer to play a non-vanilla game. Here's a way to alleviate that issue so you enjoy the game more, today, right now, without waiting for A19.3, A20, or A21". Jus' tryin' to solve problems, man.

 

With the game still under very active development (and very specifically including the loot system) I just don't get too worked up over balance issues, especially ones which are trivial to adjust. And especially especially when I am intentionally monkeying with game settings or gameplay rules in a way that will obviously negatively affect the balance that the developers have put in there.

 

"I made these changes and now the balance is off!"

"Here's a way to restore some of that balance, in light of how you yourself have chosen to change the game..."

"STOP STIFLING MY CRITICISM!!!"

 

I wonder some times if criticism is the goal, not the means.

[Solomon]

23 hours ago, Boidster said:

Your perception of the reason I brought up mods is different from my intent. I did not mean, "stop complaining, there's a mod for that". I meant, "you [Stranded Napkin] appear to have a balance issue with how you prefer to play a non-vanilla game. Here's a way to alleviate that issue so you enjoy the game more, today, right now, without waiting for A19.3, A20, or A21". Jus' tryin' to solve problems, man.

 

With the game still under very active development (and very specifically including the loot system) I just don't get too worked up over balance issues, especially ones which are trivial to adjust. And especially especially when I am intentionally monkeying with game settings or gameplay rules in a way that will obviously negatively affect the balance that the developers have put in there.

 

"I made these changes and now the balance is off!"

"Here's a way to restore some of that balance, in light of how you yourself have chosen to change the game..."

"STOP STIFLING MY CRITICISM!!!"

 

I wonder some times if criticism is the goal, not the means.

I get that but exactly because the game is still in early and active development its important to voice every possible problem you may find from balance to bugs, everything.

 

Once the game enters a more finalized stage there will be almost no chance for bigger mechanics changes so if for example you dont like how vehicles are working at that point your complaint will be just wasted time because theres no more time to fix it.

[Gazz]

Oh, there will be time for feedback when it is finalised.

What we have now is a greatly simplified version that I bolted together to get us heading in the right general direction.

 

And yes, I know that some of the feedback will be to dump it all and make it as random as it was. That is not going to happen. We have too much vertical progression in the game to even consider completely ignoring loot progression.

 

[ItsHORDEnotHOARD]

My experience with A19:

 

- Install the game after a year off. 

- Generate a map, and be gladly surprised it only took a few minutes. 

- Start playing, spawn on the desert looks great. 

- Loving the upgraded graphics, game looks and runs great! 

- Kill several zombies with a club. Very happy with combat. Challenging but not unfair. 

- Enter a small POI, found a crate. 

- Open the crate, found a stone axe WTF. 

- Found another sealed crate... With yeat another stone axe. 

- Close the game, uninstall and wait for A20, or whenever they complete the loot system. 

 

So to answer the OP question: no. I hate the current state of the system, IMO stone tools do not belong on sealed crates. 

 

However I understand  it's just WIP and the devs will fix it, just like they've fixed many other things. 

 

See you guys in another year and Happy Halloween!