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Looting Progression Plan


Roland
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Loot Progression  

189 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about the current loot progression within the context of the overall plan?

    • I hate it and want it reverted to the way it was in A18. The future sounds like it sucks.
      34
    • I dislike it but can live with it until it is fully developed. The future has some potential.
      60
    • I don't care about this. It was fine before and it is fine now and it will probably be fine in the future.
      14
    • I like it. I really like the direction this is going and the future sounds even better.
      68
    • I love it and want it to stay just like this. The future better not mess up what we have right now.
      2
    • Other reaction. Explain below.
      11


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15 minutes ago, Solomon said:

This mod is currently at 910 unique downloads, this is the amount of people who hate the looting, mod their game and use this specific loot mod.

And I am one who downloaded the mod but not to use it but to see what exactly the mod changes.
 

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21 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

And I am one who downloaded the mod but not to use it but to see what exactly the mod changes.
 

At first i downloaded it for similar purposes, it seems like all it does is take the probability tables and make them all have 0.25 chance including all items from level 1-9999999.

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On 9/1/2020 at 8:58 AM, Kattla said:

Perhaps there shouldn't be a trader at start, just overrun trader poi's one could clear to make a trader move in.

 

 

Funny you mention that.  I have a mod/prefab/quest exactly for that.

 

My long term plan for it was to replace traders with it since they are too OP...😅

3 hours ago, Solomon said:

At first i downloaded it for similar purposes, it seems like all it does is take the probability tables and make them all have 0.25 chance including all items from level 1-9999999.

Does more then that.  It's more like 4% for all items to be able to drop at any time.

 

In regards to download numbers, that is still relatively small and is not a clear indicate anyone hates anything.  Hopefully the devs telemetry software gives them more meaningful info. in this area.

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5 hours ago, Solomon said:

And how many of those players modded out parts of the game or are running A18 or earlier?

 

Those player numbers only show how many players are in the game, it doesnt show whenever they like this specific alpha or not neither does it show if the player just modded the game back into an A16 experience or such.

You missed my point entirely. I wasn't saying that everyone likes A19 or that 35K people were A-OKAY with the loot progression. My point was willingness to play the game at all. Whether someone reverts, or mods, or loves default A19 doesn't matter because the developers by design have made all three options available to their players so that people can have the best fun they can have during the ups and downs of development. If you reverted to an earlier alpha, that is thanks to the developers for keeping those available. If you are playing a modded version, it is thanks to the developers for making so much of their code available. If you are playing and loving default A19, that is thanks to the developers for continually improving the game and giving us new updates.

 

35000 people playing the game means there are a lot of people enjoying the game in one of the several ways TFP has made it available to be played. That's why people are wrong that releasing the new loot progression before it was completely developed is going to hurt the game. Even among those who voted that they hate this current progression very few flat out said they aren't playing at all. Many have found the mod that changes things to be more like A18 and are back to enjoying themselves (thanks TFP) and others have just decided to keep playing A18 or even A16 (Thanks TFP). So, yes, the numbers show how many players are in the game. Thank you. That was exactly the point I was making. The game is still wildly popular when taking the entire life cycle into consideration. The trend is still generally sloping upward which is huge for a game 7 years in Early Access.

 

Your mistake is that when you read my post you saw "blah blah blah Steam Charts blah blah blah 35,000 blah blah blah" and jumped to the conclusion that I was trying to claim that 35000 people must just love the new loot progression. Please.... 

5 hours ago, Solomon said:

This mod is currently at 910 unique downloads, this is the amount of people who hate the looting, mod their game and use this specific loot mod.

Don't sell yourself short. This only represents the number of people who know about the mod, and where to find it, and feel comfortable using it. Many people avoid mods or just don't have the knowledge to use them. 910 is a fraction of the true number of people who hate this loot progression. 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Does more then that.  It's more like 4% for all items to be able to drop at any time.

Seriously? Holy cow, 910 people really do just want to play 7 Days To Win. I can see tweaking just the lowest-level entries in the loot prob tables so that you could have a teeny tiny chance of finding a T1, T2, or T3 item in loot, but just setting everything to a flat 0.4? That's not even how A18 did it and supposedly everybody is just pining for the fjords A18 loot system to come back!

 

I could see having fun, once, with that mod installed just to see how quickly I could get kitted out in T3/Q6 gear. Like a 7D2D speed run.

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4 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Seriously? Holy cow, 910 people really do just want to play 7 Days To Win. I can see tweaking just the lowest-level entries in the loot prob tables so that you could have a teeny tiny chance of finding a T1, T2, or T3 item in loot, but just setting everything to a flat 0.4? That's not even how A18 did it and supposedly everybody is just pining for the fjords A18 loot system to come back!

 

I could see having fun, once, with that mod installed just to see how quickly I could get kitted out in T3/Q6 gear. Like a 7D2D speed run.

Seeing those numbers I now understand why so many people are so vehemently against item degradation.   It's not a question of whether or not it makes the game better.... it's a question of "Don't touch mah loot!"

 

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20 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Seriously? Holy cow, 910 people really do just want to play 7 Days To Win. I can see tweaking just the lowest-level entries in the loot prob tables so that you could have a teeny tiny chance of finding a T1, T2, or T3 item in loot, but just setting everything to a flat 0.4? That's not even how A18 did it and supposedly everybody is just pining for the fjords A18 loot system to come back!

 

I could see having fun, once, with that mod installed just to see how quickly I could get kitted out in T3/Q6 gear. Like a 7D2D speed run.

Take a look at his edits.  Its been a few days since I looked.  It looked like he removed all the gamestage gates on all items that had them and gave a flat 4% at at level 0.

 

Without item degradation its basically 4% RNG I win button.  Why people think that is fun is beyond me...

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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11 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Seeing those numbers I now understand why so many people are so vehemently against item degradation.   It's not a question of whether or not it makes the game better.... it's a question of "Don't touch mah loot!"

 

I really don't get a the draw to a survival game where you get semi endgame @%$*#! on the first couple of days. To me the survival genre is 100% about the progression from start to end tier and I honestly tend to get bored once I've found the top @%$*#! for my build.

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Just now, SquirrelTeamSix said:

I really don't get a the draw to a survival game where you get semi endgame @%$*#! on the first couple of days. To me the survival genre is 100% about the progression from start to end tier and I honestly tend to get bored once I've found the top @%$*#! for my build.

I'm ok with getting anything on day 1, including top end gear.   BUT.... only if has a limited shelf life (ie. item degradation).   The possibility of having a really good item for a period of time changes how the game progresses, which is what I find engaging.  Each game can be slightly or drastically different depending on RNG.

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5 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I'm ok with getting anything on day 1, including top end gear.   BUT.... only if has a limited shelf life (ie. item degradation).   The possibility of having a really good item for a period of time changes how the game progresses, which is what I find engaging.  Each game can be slightly or drastically different depending on RNG.

I can get behind that.  But I highly doubt vanilla will bring that feature back.  Will be up to modders to bring that back one way or the other. (E.g. no/limited/expensive repairs)

 

Edit:  MM is always saying he will add some love to MP once its time to focus on it.  Perhaps that's when/where we will see a variation of item degradation / limited repairing return.

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I'm ok with getting anything on day 1, including top end gear.   BUT.... only if has a limited shelf life (ie. item degradation).   The possibility of having a really good item for a period of time changes how the game progresses, which is what I find engaging.  Each game can be slightly or drastically different depending on RNG.

Are you talking about items not being repairable? If so I would absolutely hate that. They 500% need to make repair kits drop wayyy less frequently though. I get so many I sell stacks of them for brass tokens 

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2 minutes ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

Are you talking about items not being repairable? If so I would absolutely hate that. They 500% need to make repair kits drop wayyy less frequently though. I get so many I sell stacks of them for brass tokens 

It can add a ton of depth if done correctly.  For example, imagine if all gray quality items were all unrepairable?

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1 minute ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

Are you talking about items not being repairable? If so I would absolutely hate that. They 500% need to make repair kits drop wayyy less frequently though. I get so many I sell stacks of them for brass tokens 

IMO, a good degradation system would allow you to repair an item a limited number of times... each time it gets repaired its quality suffers.

 

I get why people wouldn't like that.... but I feel like, in a survival game, you shouldn't be able to find an item and keep it forever.

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I think this might be a good idea

On each perk line, every other level in the base line (perception, strength, fortitude, etc.) Would allow you to repair the weapons associated only with that line to a certain extent. 

 

So 4/10 points in perception for example would allow you to repair snipers, rocket launchers and spear to 40% durability. 10 points allowing you to fully repair them. Make the cost high, and this way it would make people unable to repair everything they find 

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25 minutes ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

I think this might be a good idea

On each perk line, every other level in the base line (perception, strength, fortitude, etc.) Would allow you to repair the weapons associated only with that line to a certain extent. 

 

So 4/10 points in perception for example would allow you to repair snipers, rocket launchers and spear to 40% durability. 10 points allowing you to fully repair them. Make the cost high, and this way it would make people unable to repair everything they find 

That sounds interesting, would add more value to the perks.

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

It can add a ton of depth if done correctly.  For example, imagine if all gray quality items were all unrepairable?

I like this. I think this paired with my recent idea on repairing being isolated to the perk lines would be really good. Each tier being able to progressively be repaired more than the last, but you also have to have the perks to repair snipers

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4 minutes ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

I think this might be a good idea

On each perk line, every other level in the base line (perception, strength, fortitude, etc.) Would allow you to repair the weapons associated only with that line to a certain extent. 

 

So 4/10 points in perception for example would allow you to repair snipers, rocket launchers and spear to 40% durability. 10 points allowing you to fully repair them. Make the cost high, and this way it would make people unable to repair everything they find 

That wouldn't really help, since a 40% (or 10%) repaired item in this game is just as effective as a 100% repaired item.   So you'd still have your item forever, you'd just need to repair a little more often until your attribute gets high.

 

Edit:  What could work, though, is having your relevant attribute give you a chance of repairing an item without it degrading.  Meaning that an item would last longer if you were skilled in repairing it.

Edited by Kalen (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Kalen said:

That wouldn't really help, since a 40% (or 10%) repaired item in this game is just as effective as a 100% repaired item.   So you'd still have your item forever, you'd just need to repair a little more often until your attribute gets high.

Right but paired with the repair kits being more rare i think would help a lot. 

 

To implement a more punishing repair system what if they made it so that the kits were rare, you require the perk as I said, but if you let it fully break it's gone for good?

 

Essentially change it to patching the weapon up before it breaks, but if you let it break it's gone for good.

 

If they did all of those things and made the patch kits hard to come by, I think I would t use my guns but for emergencies really.

 

Edit: this would also add risk to using things like ap rounds and machine guns as the degrade quickly anyway.

Edited by SquirrelTeamSix (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

If they did all of those things and made the patch kits hard to come by, I think I would t use my guns but for emergencies really.

I would save my best weapons for horde nights, but, with the current loot system you get more than enough guns and gun parts that you'd never really be without one after the first week or so.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I would save my best weapons for horde nights, but, with the current loot system you get more than enough guns and gun parts that you'd never really be without one after the first week or so.

 

Also fair, but to that point, items being gone forever doesnt mean much when you have 9 more in a box.

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2 minutes ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

Also fair, but to that point, items being gone forever doesnt mean much when you have 9 more in a box.

Sure it does, because those 9 items are not all equal.   To me, the best part about it is that it opens up the ability to have good items available early game (it should be very rare, though) which you can't do when the item will last forever.

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26 minutes ago, Kalen said:

That wouldn't really help, since a 40% (or 10%) repaired item in this game is just as effective as a 100% repaired item.   So you'd still have your item forever, you'd just need to repair a little more often until your attribute gets high.

 

Edit:  What could work, though, is having your relevant attribute give you a chance of repairing an item without it degrading.  Meaning that an item would last longer if you were skilled in repairing it.

Or we can take a page out of the devs book and reduce resource costs based on perk levels.  This would only work though if the number of materials for repairs increased. (e.g. if it took parts for repairs instead of kits).  For example, unperked it would cost 10 rifle parts to repair a rifle.  Perked it would only take 5.  This doesn't fix the issue with having no permanent degradation, but it does extend the looting game by adding more upkeep to higher tier weapons.

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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46 minutes ago, SquirrelTeamSix said:

Also fair, but to that point, items being gone forever doesnt mean much when you have 9 more in a box.

The fact that we have people strenuously pleading with Madmole to never implement degradation or they’ll probably never play again belies that comment. To some it means so much that they will just keep their best item as a trophy and never use it....

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