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Looting Progression Plan


Roland
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Loot Progression  

189 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about the current loot progression within the context of the overall plan?

    • I hate it and want it reverted to the way it was in A18. The future sounds like it sucks.
      34
    • I dislike it but can live with it until it is fully developed. The future has some potential.
      60
    • I don't care about this. It was fine before and it is fine now and it will probably be fine in the future.
      14
    • I like it. I really like the direction this is going and the future sounds even better.
      68
    • I love it and want it to stay just like this. The future better not mess up what we have right now.
      2
    • Other reaction. Explain below.
      11


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1 hour ago, Roland said:

Not going to happen. Not only does Joel not like it but it in discussing it in the dev diary it was pretty polarizing just like this issue. There were plenty of comments by those who hate the thought of their item being temporary. 
 

So...definitely mod territory. 

Yeah, I'm more on the pro more degradation side.  Makes items more valuable.  I suppose it will all depend how the legendary weapon design pans out.  If that design increases the incentive to keep looting, more severe degradation may not be needed.

 

I think a good example of this was how guns were in the borderlands series.

 

On the flip side, games like the Diablo series both had item prefix/suffix variation and also limited degradation and it worked for that game.

 

I think a good compromise would be to introduce some items that are not repairable (e.g. like primitives, or some legendaries)

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16 hours ago, Laz Man said:

A huge part of what keeps me going is the dream of creating my own custom world to my preferences.  Without that ability, I would most likely move on to the next game...

What a Laz Man may look like:
Honey, I Shrunk The Gorge! Model Railroad Re-Creates Iconic Region ...

 

Edited to add smiley because this is meant as gentle ribbing, not a true comment on Laz's lack of hair. Or life.

 

😃

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, RestInPieces said:

Typical knee jerk reactions vs sensible item economy that will help keep both crafting and looting relevant shouldn't be left to mods IMHO. I mean, in the end, it will also solve some of the crafting/looting complaints, plus it wasn't that unpopular even with the stat degradation (which doesn't have to come back) and highest quality/tier loot could be exponentially durable. Anyway, perhaps they might make up for it by making repair more demanding in the future.

While i would have no problem with that, many people would not like that. I am the only one in our group who would play like that and if you take a look at the public servers, there is a ton that has 200% or more loot and XP. They are popular. And those people surely don´t wanna struggle with repairing. Imho this would loose the game players and potentially new players.

 

So looking at the playerbase, the grindy approach with a lot more struggle should be mod territory.

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7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 

I definitely don't see bears that often except if I go into the snow or wasteland biome or if I go out at night. All of this is deliberately dangerous. If you go out at night you will see enemies you should not engage but avoid and stealth away, a typical situation in a survival game.

 

Hint: If you want to loot at night, clear a POI by day, remove ALL access to the upper floors before night fall and then loot during the night. Have a fast way up to first floor if you want to loot the ground floor.

 

You clearly DO NOT understand. I decided to check this thread just now as I just saw a bear on day 4, 14:35 at the exact location I have marked with the quick marker. A bear right there, at 14:35. "do not go out at night" ITS NOT night. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. If you're not going to bother to even read what i am saying then don't bother to reply.

location.png

Edited by Darklegend222
If you're not going to bother to read it, then create a new game. Fast forward to nighttime and explore around trader Jen's on day 1 and 2. Then tell me what you saw and what you're ecountering. My gamestage is only 20, was around 14 when i saw the first. (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Darklegend222 said:

You clearly DO NOT understand. I decided to check this thread just now as I just saw a bear on day 4, 14:35 at the exact location I have marked with the quick marker. A bear right there, at 14:35. "do not go out at night" ITS NOT night. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. If you're not going to bother to even read what i am saying then don't bother to reply.

location.png

Is that the Navezgane Map?  New save?

 

According to the XMLs, bears only spawn at night in the pine forest.  Perhaps it spawned the night prior and hasn't despawned?  Not even sure if they  are supposed to despawn or not....

 

	<biome name="pine_forest">
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="2.9" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="3.3" time="Night" entitygroup="ZombiesNight" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="1" time="Any" entitygroup="WildGameForest" spawnDeadChance="0" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="1.1" time="Night" entitygroup="EnemyAnimalsForest" spawnDeadChance="0" />
	</biome>

	<entitygroup name="EnemyAnimalsForest">
		<entity name="invisibleAnimalEnemy" prob="85"/>
		<entity name="animalWolf" prob="9"/>
		<entity name="animalBear" prob="3"/>
		<entity name="animalDireWolf" prob="3"/>
	</entitygroup>

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Is that the Navezgane Map?  New save?

 

According to the XMLs, bears only spawn at night in the pine forest.  Perhaps it spawned the night prior and hasn't despawned?  Not even sure if they  are supposed to despawn or not....

 


	<biome name="pine_forest">
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="2.9" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="3.3" time="Night" entitygroup="ZombiesNight" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="1" time="Any" entitygroup="WildGameForest" spawnDeadChance="0" />
		<spawn maxcount="1" respawndelay="1.1" time="Night" entitygroup="EnemyAnimalsForest" spawnDeadChance="0" />
	</biome>

	<entitygroup name="EnemyAnimalsForest">
		<entity name="invisibleAnimalEnemy" prob="85"/>
		<entity name="animalWolf" prob="9"/>
		<entity name="animalBear" prob="3"/>
		<entity name="animalDireWolf" prob="3"/>
	</entitygroup>

 

it is a completely new save, but no. It did not spawn to the night before as I killed that bear the night before thanks to the wood spikes around my house. It became daytime and I went mining for a while for iron and then decided to do my trader quest to the west and right as I was going over the hill a bear made a growling sound next to me and I took off running to my quest. I just finished the quest and going to head back to see if it's still there. I truly think it could be from a bug in some way as it happened in previous A19 beta worlds too. As i've said, completely new save, when it hit stable I made a new world

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3 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

You clearly DO NOT understand. I decided to check this thread just now as I just saw a bear on day 4, 14:35 at the exact location I have marked with the quick marker. A bear right there, at 14:35. "do not go out at night" ITS NOT night. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. If you're not going to bother to even read what i am saying then don't bother to reply.

location.png

 

You yourself talked about seeing them at night and never were saying you saw them at daytime too. So this was simply the most likely explanation and I was sure you would correct me if my assumption was wrong.

 

Unless "day 1" only means daytime in english and not the whole day (with daytime and nighttime), how should I know from your post you meant daytime?

 

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I voted 1 because none of the future aspects look like something i look forward to.

 

I already have a mod ready to load in incase i have enough of all the same repeating stuff in every container. In my opinion what A18 needed for loot is in general more items to even out what you can find and instead of tying the actual items to the gamestage just tie the tiers into it up to T5 so with some randomisation and a low chance of finding T6 so when someone finds a T6 Pistol they will be like "OMG! A purple item!" instead of "Meh, another one.".

 

Kind of like how in Borderlands when you find your first pearlscent weapon you will be in awe you got one and will treasure each and every single one of them.

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6 hours ago, Solomon said:

I voted 1 because none of the future aspects look like something i look forward to.

 

I already have a mod ready to load in incase i have enough of all the same repeating stuff in every container. In my opinion what A18 needed for loot is in general more items to even out what you can find and instead of tying the actual items to the gamestage just tie the tiers into it up to T5 so with some randomisation and a low chance of finding T6 so when someone finds a T6 Pistol they will be like "OMG! A purple item!" instead of "Meh, another one.".

 

Kind of like how in Borderlands when you find your first pearlscent weapon you will be in awe you got one and will treasure each and every single one of them.

Do you ever find that pearlscent weapon in your first hour of playing Borderlands? That would be like A18.

 

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I voted 1 because i like to turn off loot respawn. Which means every container only gets looted once in the game ever. Playing that way the new loot system really sucks as looting early for food and essentials means you can't loot those crates later for good stuff. It means biding your time to loot the building next to your base because it has working stiff crates in them until later in the game.... it feels extremely artificial. Instead of "surviving" I am playing the system.

 

Crafting should be working into looting. Perhaps you find more materials in loot that you need to craft with and you can upgrade your items from tier 1 to tier 6. as you advance. Then finding the steel tools and good guns early won't be a problem but you have to work to increase them in tier level as you progress in the game.  Sure you can find the piles of rare crafting items from the large POIs by nerdpolling early but you can't use them until you get the crafting skills.

 

Without loot respawn the current system is pretty broken.

 

I've also felt that the tier 6 items should be crafted only to reward topping out in a skill. You can only find 5 in loot, you need the skill to craft 6.

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5 hours ago, meganoth said:

Do you ever find that pearlscent weapon in your first hour of playing Borderlands? That would be like A18.

 

Not sure about the avarage player in A18 but my run with my brother needed us to pass day 15 for the first purple find what was my stun baton.

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If you combine the first 2 together, it pretty much shows that its disliked and should be reversed, Bring back a18 loot! It made the game fun, A19 loot makes the game boring for people who like to go out looting, which is pretty much every single player. Even when learn by doing was removed, I still enjoyed the game, but this a19 loot change has completly ruined the game for me to the point I can't even bother to play it really anymore. Its just boring plain and simple.

 

To the devs try this: play dead is dead, on survival or insane, see how fun it is when you restart after you die only to always find the exact same loot at the same gs over and over. THATS where the problem is, it removed all variation and randomness to it, and it also makes no sense when you consider the world your in. A18 loot made sense, you can find some pretty random stuff in peoples storage places. However in a19 loot, everyone seems to store the same things in the same spots no matter if its a house or a bank.

 

For a VERY FIRST play thru of the game the linear loot sounds like a good idea, but in actuality it is not, it gets real boring real quick when all you find in every loot container is the same crap over and over, especially when as I mentioned above, it makes no sense at all for the world your char inhabits.

 

Please bring a18 loot system back and add the a19 items into it, so I and others can actually enjoy the game again. The a18 loot system was perfect and did not need to be touched, and you could also add the gamestage bonus by biome and poi tier to the a18 loot as well. As you'd find higher quality and higher tech tier items more often in say wasteland than in forest.

8 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Not sure about the avarage player in A18 but my run with my brother needed us to pass day 15 for the first purple find what was my stun baton.

Finding a purple on day 15 was lucky, i've gone till day 25-30 without finding one, its based on rng and luck, and its how it should be. In a18 i've had games where I didn't really find any guns anywhere, or I wasn't able to find something else I needed, due to the randomness factor of the loot, and you know what? its the best loot system the game ever had in a18. Granted they could make it take higher GS to find quality 4-6 stuff in loot in the a18 loot.

 

The best thing about a18 loot is in this joined post, above the randomness, made every game different, as you could find some nice stuff early, for example for a challenge I NEVER spend a single point in intel, I just get adv engineering level 1 for early forge, thats it. I rely on loot to find a crucible, or the plans to make one, this adds a nice challenge as sometimes I get lucky and find one around day 7-12, sometimes I go till day 25-30 without finding one.

 

In A19 loot however, if they still drop you have ZERO chance PERIOD to find it till your GS is above a certain stage. Thats why A18 loot is better, its more random and luck based, and it makes every single playthru different if you don't get any intel and even if you do, the loot is never the same twice in a18. Unlike a19 where its the same linear loot every single game you play, which after the first game really ruins the experience and also makes no sense in the world the char you play inhabits. Who the hell is going to store a stone axe in a gunsafe? that makes no sense.

 

There is one way they can fix a19 loot, and thats by putting proper loot in the right containers, If I open a gun safe, I should not find tools in there, I should find only guns and ammo inside it, and I don't mean bluderbuss after blunderbus either. I mean pistols ak's on day 1 even if they are quality 1.

 

The 7000 hp loot boxes and the store boxes for like working stiffs also should not have stone tools in them, they should have things of value in those sorts of boxes, for the steel boxes: guns, weapons higher than primitive etc, the working stuff stuff should be at the minimum iron tools, which is how a18 was. That aspect is completly gone from a19 and every box no matter if its a gunsafe, or 7000 hp steel box etc all have the same loot.

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6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Do you ever find that pearlscent weapon in your first hour of playing Borderlands? That would be like A18.

 

No, you don't but if you did, you'd end up tossing it a few levels later as you'd out grow it and a white/green weapon would have higher stats. However 7dtd is not a game like that, so that can't really apply properly. Borderlands is a linear rpg, 7dtd's is a open world sandbox, completly different genre pretty much.

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24 minutes ago, Scyris said:

No, you don't but if you did, you'd end up tossing it a few levels later as you'd out grow it and a white/green weapon would have higher stats. However 7dtd is not a game like that, so that can't really apply properly. Borderlands is a linear rpg, 7dtd's is a open world sandbox, completly different genre pretty much.

And still 7D2D is linear enough that a pistol or AK on day 1 removes any potential danger whatsoever, immediately. No tension anymore, you can be absolutely sure that if you get into situation that might be hairy you just switch from wooden club to AK and those 3 zombies zooming in on you are gone after a salvo.

 

And that is well within the genre of 7D2D. There have to be compromises. I actually don't mind if there are chances for high-level mods, seldom recipes or even gyrocopter parts to be found at level 1.  But not guns, definitely no guns.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Scyris said:

If you combine the first 2 together, it pretty much shows that its disliked and should be reversed

lol...the second one literally says "I can live with it because I'm willing to see where it goes" That is the complete opposite of throwing it out and reverting. I agree that the first two can be combined to add up the total people who feel negatively about the current state. I'll even give you the other category because truthfully most of those were also negative if memory serves. But, even with all of that it is still pretty well divided down the middle between likes and dislikes. And most of the dislikes feel reasonable about moving forward to see where it goes.

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On 8/26/2020 at 3:57 PM, Darklegend222 said:

You clearly DO NOT understand. I decided to check this thread just now as I just saw a bear on day 4, 14:35 at the exact location I have marked with the quick marker. A bear right there, at 14:35. "do not go out at night" ITS NOT night. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. If you're not going to bother to even read what i am saying then don't bother to reply.

What's the issue? Bears are very easy to get away from; after a short chase they lose interest in you unless you harm them (and even so, they will lose interest in ya). Same for wolves/direwolves/coyotes/mountain lions, keep running break line of sight, hop over a mountain or small hill or a boulder. Go into a house, run through it go to the back and take off.

 

Just because you see a bear it doesn't mean, "Welp guess I gotta run up to it, punch it and die".

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9 hours ago, Scyris said:

In A19 loot however, if they still drop you have ZERO chance PERIOD to find it till your GS is above a certain stage. Thats why A18 loot is better, its more random and luck based, and it makes every single playthru different if you don't get any intel and even if you do, the loot is never the same twice in a18. Unlike a19 where its the same linear loot every single game you play, which after the first game really ruins the experience and also makes no sense in the world the char you play inhabits. Who the hell is going to store a stone axe in a gunsafe? that makes no sense.

In A18 putting a point into intelligence was an optional decision, in A19 its a necessity because without that the game feels artifically slowed down.

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Roland, this poll is phrased in a very biased way. 'How do you like the current loot system in the context of the overall plan?'
I know you like the current system, and like where the system will lead to (I disagree on the first, agree on the latter), but just ask people 'how do you like the current system'?

If you don't want it to be biased, you would have to put the length of time we will have the current system in the phrase as well. Given that it's more likely we'll have this system for a year, and not a month.

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3 hours ago, Roland said:

lol...the second one literally says "I can live with it because I'm willing to see where it goes" That is the complete opposite of throwing it out and reverting. I agree that the first two can be combined to add up the total people who feel negatively about the current state. I'll even give you the other category because truthfully most of those were also negative if memory serves. But, even with all of that it is still pretty well divided down the middle between likes and dislikes. And most of the dislikes feel reasonable about moving forward to see where it goes.

I guess what's truly certain is that everyone, whether they like the system or not, want to see it change. No one voted for it to stay as is, which is reassuring.

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