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Roland

Looting Progression Plan

Loot Progression  

143 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about the current loot progression within the context of the overall plan?

    • I hate it and want it reverted to the way it was in A18. The future sounds like it sucks.
      26
    • I dislike it but can live with it until it is fully developed. The future has some potential.
      44
    • I don't care about this. It was fine before and it is fine now and it will probably be fine in the future.
      12
    • I like it. I really like the direction this is going and the future sounds even better.
      51
    • I love it and want it to stay just like this. The future better not mess up what we have right now.
      1
    • Other reaction. Explain below.
      9


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16 hours ago, Roland said:

There is a lot of frustration surrounding the looting progression of A19. Some hate the fact that sealed containers have primitive gear in them. I am not going to speak to that in this post. What I want to mainly address is the overall plan as it has been revealed for loot progression. I hope to alleviate fears but I also recognize that you can't please everyone so I'm sure that there will be those upset by even the overall plan and you are welcome to share your opinions here once you understand where this is all headed.

 

Currently loot progression has been slowed down and gated by gamestage milestones. Once you reach a certain gamestage you will begin to see better loot as well as tougher enemies. This progression is not strictly "leveled loot" but more like "leveled probabilities". You still have a chance at getting high tier gear at low gamestage but it is extremely rare. Probabilities shift towards high quality goods becoming more likely to appear as your gamestage increases. This means of course that you can still also get crappy primitive stuff from time to time even if your gamestage is high.

 

WHERE IS THIS ALL LEADING?

 

The good news is that the current progression is just a first step towards an ultimate goal. The goal, in case you were wondering, is to have a wide variety of loot that is exciting to obtain while at the same time maintaining the relevance of crafting in the game. Also the devs want there to be differentiation and risk assessment when deciding to go for particular loot. Historically it hasn't really mattered much where you looted as it was all the same loot wherever you went. Shotgun Messiah boxes in a simply house attic in the forest was exactly the same as Shotgun Messiah boxes in the Factory in the wasteland. The devs want the latter to have more exiting things in them as long as the player is willing to take on the greater risk in obtaining them.

 

WHAT CHANGES WILL BRING THIS ABOUT?

 

These are the changes revealed by Madmole in the dev diary that they plan to do. There has been nothing said yet about backtracking any of these design choices so as of now these steps are still the plan. Other than Step 1 which has already happened there is not particular order to the next steps and most if not all of the rest could be completed by time A20 comes out so the order won't really matter to us.

 

Step 1: Tie both loot and enemies to player gamestage. This has been slowly happening (mostly with enemies) since A17 but really took a huge noticeable leap in A19 when the loot had its turn to get in line with gamestage. THIS IS THE PRESENT STATE

 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ PLANNED

Step 2: Add a modifier to each biome and each POI that increases the player's gamestage while inside it by a certain amount. That modifier could be zero or it could be much higher. Modifiers of POIs within Biomes with modifiers would stack. By making it possible for POI's and Biomes to have a higher gamestage rating that will result in both tougher enemies and better loot.

 

Step 3: Add primitive weaponry for each attribute tree so that there is greater variety of weaponry that works well with each attribute during the primitive stage.

 

Step 4: Add legendary weaponry so that there is even greater variety. The most recent remarks by Madmole that I remember were that legendaries will be of any quality tier but have special mods pre-attached that will give great bonuses when using that weapon. Could this mean that plain quality six gear could be re-opened to crafting? Possibly but that hasn't been confirmed.

 

Step 5: Add a Random Encounter Manager so that random encounters can happen giving the player the illusion of greater zombie activity without hurting performance. This feature would also tie into the gamestage system to create a range of risky encounters. An example would be a regular supply drop would have gamestage modifier of 0. But the random encounter manager could place a crew of bandits around that supply drop adding a significant gamestage modifier and thus making the loot in that supply drop much better than it would have been.

 

Step 6: Implement a method for preventing the nerdpole smash and grab. There has been no official word on what that method will be although Madmole seems to like the idea of needing to find a key.

 

RAMIFICATIONS

 

Once all the pieces are in place we will be back to a world with diverse loot to be scavenged-- way more diverse than ever before. Players will decide for themselves by assessing risk and rewards for whether they want to play it safe and slowly progress by sticking to easier areas and letting their own unmodified gamestage determine the loot they get and enemies they face or whether they want to enter the wasteland and search an infested factory for the best loot. If they get it and survive then they will have a definite advantage in the early game.

 

One thing I didn't mention which could also relate is that there is code right now for three levels of radiation with indicators for the player for when they enter areas of that intensity of radiation. It seems that this, once implemented, could tie in as well to this system but it hasn't been mentioned like the six I outlined by Madmole.

 

 

Step 2: This won't do much and you'll still have the same problem! You'll still get lots of the same type of tools/weapons at the same gamestages (range)

Step 3: Won't do much except instead of one type of crappy primitive weapon you get a variety of crappy primitive weapons. Again you still get a bunch of them during the same gamestages (range)!

Step 4: Seems like endgame that has nothing to do with linear loot progression issue. You're just adding another quality here.

Step 5: Seems like a questing but instead of you starting it whenever you want, it's forced upon you. Also don't you already have this in-game with the different wandering hordes?

Step 6: NO. Why prevent the player from doing whatever they want? If they want to cheese it let them! Its their world give them the freedom to do whatever they want! You allow them to enable cheat mode to spawn in items but you won't allow them to place blocks down (e.g. nerdpole)? Yes, fantastic logic there...

 

Some ideas:

 

I think that gamestage should be ignored for looting. For all loot there is a chance to get the higher level tiers albeit that chance is very very small. However the chance goes up when you loot specialty/treasure chests and when you use the looting skills/items.

 

So there's a very very very low chance that you get a level 4 pickaxe on day 1. Suppose you get one. You're set right? Nope. If you're low level then you're less effective at using higher tier tools/weapons and they also degrade much faster. It might be better to use a tool appropriate for your level. However at least you found a higher tier tool which you can use later.

 

Bottom line, we don't want to have dozens of the same types of tools/weapons. We want variety so that looting appears more random. We like to scavenge and we get excited when we find new and better stuff. Give us incentives/motive to loot more.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Poll title is about the current loot progression, yet all the options ask for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet. Fix please.

 

 

 

 

Edited by RestInPieces (see edit history)

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13 minutes ago, PPanda0421 said:

but you won't allow them to place blocks down (e.g. nerdpole)

I think you're misunderstanding.   They're not talking about removing the ability to nerd pole.... they're talking about making it impossible to just go straight to the end of the POI loot room (in *some* of the POIs, not all) and get the loot.   You'll have to search the POI for a key to unlock the loot room.

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8 minutes ago, RestInPieces said:

Poll title is about the current loot progression, yet all the options ask for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet. Fix please.

 

 

 

 

I made a new thread that asks JUST that:

 

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25 minutes ago, RestInPieces said:

Poll title is about the current loot progression, yet all the options ask for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet. Fix please.

 

 

 

 

Nah, it’s good. You don’t have to participate. If there was no way to explain your selection I might agree but my whole purpose in this was to get opinions about the current status knowing that it is just an initial step and not the final design plan. If I thought the current progression was the planned progression forever I would feel much different about it than I do knowing that it is temporary. 
 

Sounds like Drac has a poll with zero context that you can go vote in. 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I think you're misunderstanding.   They're not talking about removing the ability to nerd pole.... they're talking about making it impossible to just go straight to the end of the POI loot room (in *some* of the POIs, not all) and get the loot.   You'll have to search the POI for a key to unlock the loot room.

I think you're misunderstanding. The key would almost certainly be for the loot container, not the room it's in. If we start to see impenetrable rooms in houses (made of Trader-style 🎵gong🎵 blocks?), well...ALL OF THE HAIR will be on fire in these forums.

 

ETA: I voted 3. It's fine. It'll be fine in the future. I think it's fine, I guess, because I understand about the future plans. So maybe I'm a low-energy 4 instead of a 3. I paid for a pre-release game and I'm gettin' what I paid for. Not worth the stress to freak out over stone tools in a crate.

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)

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5 minutes ago, Boidster said:

I think you're misunderstanding. The key would almost certainly be for the loot container, not the room it's in. If we start to see impenetrable rooms in houses (made of Trader-style 🎵gong🎵 blocks?), well...ALL OF THE HAIR will be on fire in these forums.

 

ETA: I voted 3. It's fine. It'll be fine in the future. I think it's fine, I guess, because I understand about the future plans. So maybe I'm a low-energy 4 instead of a 3. I paid for a pre-release game and I'm gettin' what I paid for. Not worth the stress to freak out over stone tools in a crate.

Well, I didn't mean unlock the room itself, I meant unlock whats in the room.... but, yeah, I could've been clearer.   Since it hasn't been decided one way or the other yet, who knows how it will be.

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6 minutes ago, Roland said:

Nah, it’s good. You don’t have to participate. If there was no way to explain your selection I might agree but my whole purpose in this was to get opinions about the current status knowing that it is just an initial step and not the final design plan. If I thought the current progression was the planned progression forever I would feel much different about it than I do knowing that it is temporary. 
 

Sounds like Drac has a poll with zero context that you can go vote in. 

Already did. So, you are asking for an opinion on the basis of something that hasn't happened yet. That's cool, people do it all the time in these forums, although their title usually reflects they are talking about an expectation, not a state. Feel free not to fix it though.

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46 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I think you're misunderstanding.   They're not talking about removing the ability to nerd pole.... they're talking about making it impossible to just go straight to the end of the POI loot room (in *some* of the POIs, not all) and get the loot.   You'll have to search the POI for a key to unlock the loot room.

No I'm not misunderstanding. I know he was talking about POI lootroom because he explicitly said 'nerdpole smash and grab.' Most of us long-time players are familiar with it. I haven't heard about a 'key' implementation since I don't follow the devs diary thread but I'm basing my comments on his original post. My point is still the same. Let us do what we want since it's our world. If it's a bug then fix it. Nerdpoling is more like a strategy/shortcut. If you've done the same POI dozens of times and are familiar with it why can't you take a shortcut? If we want xp we'll go through the normal route. If we're just there to loot the final chest, let us do that. Don't force to fit your playstyle.

 

It's like the issue with undergound bases. Some players liked to bypass the horde by hiding undergound. Then they made changes so that zombies dig and you could no longer hide underground (or at least hide easily) during horde night. After a dozens and dozens of horde nights I sometimes like to take a break.

 

They like to force 'full experience' on us a lot...

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, PPanda0421 said:

No I'm not misunderstanding. I know he was talking about POI lootroom because he explicitly said 'nerdpole smash and grab.'

Oh ok, I was just confused by your comment "but you won't allow them to place blocks down".   That makes it sound like you thought that they're going to remove the ability to place blocks down.

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2 hours ago, Xtrakicking said:

 

Also, if the plan is to add gamestage modifiers to specific containers, does that mean containers such as gunsafes and armored chests will have appropiate loot inside them?

That I don’t know. I’ve heard modifiers to biomes and to POIs. If they can add them to specific containers or other types of areas that would be cool. It would be cool to have a region like a city have a modifier. 
 

The problem with adding them to just a container is that only affects the loot. The point is to have better loot guarded by tougher enemies. 

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1 minute ago, Roland said:

That I don’t know. I’ve heard modifiers to biomes and to POIs. If they can add them to specific containers or other types of areas that would be cool. It would be cool to have a region like a city have a modifier. 
 

The problem with adding them to just a container is that only affects the loot. The point is to have better loot guarded by tougher enemies. 

It makes more sense to attach the modifier to certain biomes and maybe some POIs only.  That would allow them to reuse some POIs in other biomes without too much rework to existing POIs.

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15 minutes ago, PPanda0421 said:

Nerdpoling is more like a strategy/shortcut.

Sorry for the confusion. I was using that imagery as an example of going straight to the loot room and bypassing the rest. Nerdpoling will remain and you can use it to go straight to the loot room. But then you’ll find it very difficult to grab the loot until you find the key. Perhaps lockpicking or c4 will still work. Probably they will. The loot room stuff is still just talk at this point. They may just spread the loot around more. Or they might just do nothing on this score. 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Roland said:

That I don’t know. I’ve heard modifiers to biomes and to POIs. If they can add them to specific containers or other types of areas that would be cool. It would be cool to have a region like a city have a modifier. 
 

The problem with adding them to just a container is that only affects the loot. The point is to have better loot guarded by tougher enemies. 

I haven't looked in a while to see if changes were made to this, but I'm pretty sure sleeper spawns can have a gamestage multiplier applied to them. So, if they really wanted to go through POIs and adjust that, I'm pretty sure they could. 
If the already placed sleepers of a POI are guarding some loot, the spawn group of which it calls should already be affected by whatever gamestage increase has occurred as a result of being in some specific biome. The only thing that really needs to be done is adjust the gamestage when entering/leaving biomes. (I thought they already did this too)
I don't see the need to add even more adjustment to a specific container. All the tools to accomplish this are either there or will be soon.
I mean in terms of the zombies protecting the loot, of course, not what loot contains.

 

"Step 6: Implement a method for preventing the nerdpole smash and grab. There has been no official word on what that method will be although Madmole seems to like the idea of needing to find a key."

I've liked this idea since I first saw it brought up back in A17. I'm concerned about the implementation of it though. I can see them putting it in, and then not realizing someone could take a key from an easy POI and use it on a hard POI. Also concerned about the confusion that will arise with lockpicks. Additionally, it will be kinda weird when all the larger POIs are like this. You'll get that gimmicky feeling, similar to sleeper placements. More than one idea would be better.

Edited by AtomicUs5000 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

@JCrook1028 I know. Still a fact that many people think streamer weekends suck because most of us need to wait another 5 days to play the new version properly because 8 hrs of work everyday. So actually a lot do get it a week later due to a monday release. It used to be thursday before the streamer weekend happened. Or maybe i am thinking of another game here...

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, leaderdog said:

@meganoth I'm not saying all RPG's are perfect nor do their lore explain "everything" never once did I say that, and I don't care for online Multiplayer rpgs at all.  WoW was the only one I played for a long time and I got BORED of it because after a while it's just plain boring doing linear all the same things with slightly larger mobs which are the exact same as the low level mobs.  I did try Elder Scrolls online with some friends and again same thing, boring.  Soooo boring it's all the same crap over and over again.

 

So no not all lore is great for rpg games.  But the truly good ones.  I suppose you could put D&D in this, though I've only played the odd D&D game on the computer. They have an established lore, ,or reasonable lore or at least interesting lore.

 

I'm specifically not talking about MMORPGs. I may have been misreading what you say about lore explaining everything, sorry

 

D&D RPGs have exactly the discrepancy I was talking about. A lvl 10 guard from a high-level city could just massacre dozens of lvl 1 soldiers of a low-level city or country.

 

I also made my point because you concluded something because of the lights still glowing in 7D2D. Which would be really unexplainable because after a zombie outbreak power plants and all the electrical networks would fail to work within hours or days at most. The lights are simply one of the unexplainable things and who knows, may have been just the idea of a graphics designer to liven up the scenery. They don't signify anything at the moment (at least that is my interpretation).

 

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

I think you're misunderstanding. The key would almost certainly be for the loot container, not the room it's in. If we start to see impenetrable rooms in houses (made of Trader-style 🎵gong🎵 blocks?), well...ALL OF THE HAIR will be on fire in these forums.

Why impenetrable? For early and mid-game it simply works to have a room with reinforced concrete or even steel. You have the choice to find the key in a fun game of whack-a-zombie or hack away for 10 minutes on two or even 4 steel blocks. Well, YOU have the choice, my choice can only be to whack. 

 

I remember Madmole saying that trader-style blocks are definitely out of the question for locked loot rooms by the way.

 

3 hours ago, Psychodabble said:

This is a HUGE problem with TFP simply taking their cues from telemetry instead of actually listening to players. Unless their telemetry can tell them whether and exactly what people have changed, it's pretty much worthless.

Telemetry will tell them if the game is modded and what version is getting played. Come on, do you think they and the company they use for telemetry are out of a Monty Python sketch? 😉.

 

EDIT: Here is an excerpt of the privacy declaration: 

Some things we are capturing include:

Game simulation settings
How XP is earned
How players die
How players kill enemies
The speed of player leveling
Loot Progression at key points

It is also made clear that they are only getting telemetry data from A19 players. If everyone is playing A18 or A16, they will simply see very low numbers of A19 players compared to the total number of players.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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I chose "Other Reaction".

 

So I, in general, "like" the new progression system as it does in fact extend the game's length. However, it was never about JUST finding better loot, the game kept you playing because you wanted to upgraded your base to it's maximum potential and see it hold off the hardest hordes with ease, this new loot change just shifts the perspective into making you focus on your gear alone, rather than your home defense or construction (this also ties into perks but I'm not falling into that hole again).

 

 

These are the stuff I have been thinking since I first played the experimental:

 

 

- Primitive items should be found in survivor caches/stashes, instead of having crates on top of PoI's as "Dungeon Reward", how about, depending on the PoI you actually just have a mini survivor camp where he left some of his stuff? Like some PoI's have the chair and reinforced chest on the roof(food ones for example).

 

- How about having these survivor stashes (also add new lootable blocks mind you) not JUST as dungeon reward, since primitive weapons are not the best either, you are just trying to find (in madmole's words) "something better than what you have". TL:DR Low tier rewards with low tier effort.

 

- Have a RNG system inside the PoI for a specfic set of blocks, for example, in shotgun messiah normal stores, where there's a bunch of crates on top of shelves and a ton more in the back. How about those blocks, get changed whenever the PoI spawns or is refreshed? (Switches between: Full crate, cracked crate, no crate, something else). It would also make up for more interesting replayability.

 

- Following the previous suggestion, this way, you wouldn't need to severely reduce the chances of getting an actual weapon or iron tool, because that change would already be apparent as soon as you look at the block (meaning, you could be clearing out a PoI, for a bunch of open crates, it leads up to a similar result, but this way the player doesn't feel cheated on). It also should mean that if you see a pristine crate, it SHOULD contain, at the very least, 1 weapon + (mods, ammo, both, another gun), and later on much more and much rarer stuff.

 

- And also, for the love of god, actually remove the goddamn special chests and crates (even in late game's rewards) from food PoI's and stuff like that. I'm not looting a freaking fast food restaurant for a shotgun, it makes no sense.

 

- The big reinforced military chest should not contain bad stuff, period, it should always be the most reliable source of a BIG REWARD, but obviously should be more well guarded. Some of these problems will get fixed with the additions of bosses and special infected, i'm sure of it.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

It's going in the right direction, but there is more the devs could have done already to make the looting much more interesting until the great A20 additions that will also improve the loot balance. Some of the major problems that were fixed by nerfing the loot, should have been fixed by making it harder to get instead or spreading it out.

 

My suggestions are take it or leave it honestly, i'm not here to get into more pointless arguments. The devs obviously have their own vision of the game, and I'm just another guy writing on the forum. Meanwhile I'll be waiting for the next updates and a modding kit.

 

I apologize for any grammar mistakes that may occur.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Why impenetrable? For early and mid-game it simply works to have a room with reinforced concrete or even steel. You have the choice to find the key in a fun game of whack-a-zombie or hack away for 10 minutes on two or even 4 steel blocks. Well, YOU have the choice, my choice can only be to whack. 

One or two layers of steel-reinforced concrete surrounding the attic of a POI house? ALL THE HAIR will be on fire, I'm telling you. It will be Realism War III in here. Never mind that every POI will need to be redesigned to have a new "loot room" added, or to have its existing room upgraded to concrete or steel.

 

The easiest change that doesn't cause widespread hair fires is to just make the big lockbox require a key. A key specific to that instance of that POI, if possible.

 

I'm not advocating for keys-required lockboxes; I find myself mostly ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I have no problem with players using the tools the game gives them (ladders, nerdpoles) to reach any part of a POI at any time they wish. When I'm on my first-few-days hunt for a cooking pot and a wrench, bet yer a** that I bust through the boarded-up windows on the outside of houses trying to find the kitchen. Kill any sleepers in there and loot just the sink/stove/cabinets.

 

On the other hand, I don't find locked loot containers to be unrealistic at all. (Set aside for the moment the arguments about finding stone tools in them.) So my hair would stay unenflamed over that addition to the game. Might be kinda neat if the trader sold Skeleton Keys (expensive!) which would open any lockbox in any POI.

 

On the gripping hand, after all the biome and POI-specific gamestage boosts, maybe the idea of laddering up to the loot room will be dangerous enough, so that the risk vs. reward ratio is still reasonable. That's where I can see the developers' point - it's not so much about "forcing" us into a playstyle, it's about at least making the risk/reward ratios stay within reason. Ladder up an easy POI straight to the loot room? Sure, but you're getting blunderbuss ammo and some lockpicks.

 

Want better loot while still bypassing The One True Path, well you better be ready for +50 or +100 gamestage, which will determine both the loot you find and the strength of the zombies guarding it.

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5 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Never mind that every POI will need to be redesigned to have a new "loot room" added, or to have its existing room upgraded to concrete or steel.

Joel indicated that the key idea would not be for every POI.... just some of the high end ones.

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3 minutes ago, Boidster said:

One or two layers of steel-reinforced concrete surrounding the attic of a POI house? ALL THE HAIR will be on fire, I'm telling you. It will be Realism War III in here. Never mind that every POI will need to be redesigned to have a new "loot room" added, or to have its existing room upgraded to concrete or steel.

 

Such a loot room would only be possible for high tier POIs (4 and 5?), naturally. I did not talk about the chances of any solution eventually landing in the game, I'm just telling you that THIS proposed solution works without and was never planned with indestructable walls.

 

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5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Such a loot room would only be possible for high tier POIs (4 and 5?), naturally. I did not talk about the chances of any solution eventually landing in the game, I'm just telling you that THIS proposed solution works without and was never planned with indestructable walls.

Oops, okay I see the disconnect. I was responding to a response to a response to this, which was more generic:

 

21 hours ago, Roland said:

Step 6: Implement a method for preventing the nerdpole smash and grab. There has been no official word on what that method will be although Madmole seems to like the idea of needing to find a key.

I agree that the cement/steel loot room would at least fit better in the T4/5 POIs. I think it's a less elegant solution than a key for the lockbox itself, but at least pre-auger it would work to dissuade casual smash-and-grabbers.

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I chose option 4.

 

A lot of people are saying this new progression system bores them but I'm just the opposite.  On the old system I would get everything too fast and was bored by day 21.  On my new game since A19 stable I'm on day 11 and just now getting purple stone axes, shovels, padded armor and loving it.  I have felt the progression with the stone weapons/tools and I know I'm really close to start getting iron.  This current game will go way beyond day 21 for me because now there is still so much to get still.  I was tired of getting steel stuff during the first week or two, yawning and saying well not much else to do.

 

I am excited for the direction this game is going as well.  When all the changes are made I'll still hang out in the forest for a long time getting better stone stuff for a week or so then try harder biomes and POI's.

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2 hours ago, Boidster said:

On the other hand, I don't find locked loot containers to be unrealistic at all. (Set aside for the moment the arguments about finding stone tools in them.)

That’s because it isn’t unrealistic. In fact on MP servers I used locked containers all the time.
 

A locked safe is not locked to the owner. He can store whatever he wants and gain access to it easily.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Hellsmoke said:

I voted 1 because as is, I can't find the desire to even start a game after seeing so many blunderbusses on the Youtubers play through. That said I don't keep up with the dev diary so I had no idea what future plans were and after reading them now I find them very interesting. 

 

The reason I voted option 1 is because the question was "how do you feel about the CURRENT loot progression" and in the current state it is in, I can't bring myself to play it. I think it was a bad idea to release this in the current state it is in because we have to live with it for quite some time. 

 

The reason I dislike it is because when I start a game, the worst part for me is having to break that first stone, that first tree. You literally beat on those things like 50 times before you get a little stone or wood so I usually don't gather much material until I have a few skills, I just can't do it with the stamina restrictions. Instead I go looting, kill some zambies and level a bit to increase my stamina and the speed in which I can gather materials to start building anything. 

 

As it is now, looting is no longer worth it imo and I have no clue what I am supposed to even do other than suffer lol. I really can't imagine how to even begin and this is what stopped me from playing A19.

 

I knew there would be changes eventually and I'm sure we have all skipped an Alpha so it's not a big deal to me really. There are more things that add to my hesitation and that is the fact that not all zombies are done yet and I'd kinda like to see the whole package when it is done rather than half done. There are also other things like performance but that is a discussion for another thread or could just be my PC which is good but could have some kind of issue somewhere and I just don't feel like messing with it as all other games run perfectly.

 

Long story short, the CURRENT state is awful but what they have planned for the future as far as looting goes sounds really good. I'm confident they will hit the sweet spot eventually.

I voted 1 for now as well, as I am not a kiss-ass, the current system is garbage and should be reverted until they have it finalized, the curretn loot system right now has completly destroyed the game for me to the point I don't even wanna play it anymore due to how linear it is. Even when its finalized I think a18's loot would be better with just some tweaks done to it.

 

Listen: Loot in sandbox games should not be linear like this, thats why a18 loot was so perfect, you could get lucky and get steel tools on day 1, I mean it'd be quality 1, but still a nice find. There was no need to change how loot worked from a18, you could have still added the biome/poi tier modifiers for higher chance of better loot in a18 without completly screwing the pooch for early/midgame. Its a perfect example of: If it ain't broke don't try to fix it. As A18 loot was not broke it was pretty much perfect for the type of game 7dtd was. I liked it because I play dead is dead, and every game even on the same map, was different, some games I found steel tools early, or the chem lab plan, other games, I never found steel tools period and had to craft them. One game rng really screwed with me and I found almost no guns in loot period, that was actually a fun one, had to rely on trader for my weapons for a change.

 

New loot in a19? completly removed all randomness to looting, making every game the same carbon copy stuff every run, it took out all of the fun of the game for me and many others. One of the best aspects of a18 was the loot system, and how random it was, it was nice knowing that every run even on the same map is not going to be the exact same, since loot was random. A19? again, same crap every game, making it have virtually 0 replay value, because lets face it, in 7dtd once your established, there currently is no real reason to keep playing. The early game is the best part of 7dtd currently, and a19 completly ruined that with nothing to look forward to really (yet anyway).

 

Anyone who voted they like the system probably don't know what a sandbox style game is, or has started recently and shouldn't really be answering the poll as they wouldn't know what a18 etc was like, and these forums are a small section to poll from imo. Newer players are prob happy with the change as they are new and don't know any better, but many of the older players who been around a while in general dislike the a19 loot.

 

The gameplan sounds intersting, the main issue is you started to introduce the new system in too base of a form, and should have waited till you at least had the biome/poi tier gamestage bonuses put in before doing it. Though even with that I still think a18's loot system would be better, I like randomness in sandbox games, which is why I pretty much always play on randomgen maps, makes each game a new experience, or at least it used too, till the loot system was ruined in a19. Now? its same garbage in every container in the same set pattern. In A18, looting a safe always had better loot than say opening a random box, this is no longer the case in a19, that gunsafe is going to be filled with primitive tools just like every other container early game.

Edited by Scyris (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, Scyris said:

 Anyone who voted they like the system probably don't know what a sandbox style game is, or has started recently and shouldn't really be answering the poll as they wouldn't know what a18 etc was like

Maybe old vets shouldn't be answering the polls because their views are clouded by what they're familiar with instead of the actual merits

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